Discussion - Member to Member Sales - Research Center
Discussion - Member to Member Sales - Research Center
10:24:52pm
Login to Like
this post
Hi Lisa, I would look on ebay for something comparable. You'd be surprised how many lots of goodies you can win for $350! If the seller is a non-stamp collector, he may be overestimating the value. If he is a collector, I would ask him if he/she knows the rough scott catalog value. I usually try to pay under 20% for lots that size, unless there are a few rare items in VF or better condition. It sounds fun, but for over $300 you should get more than just one stock book. The fact that your husband noted items worth several dollars apiece is promising, but remember, there is very little market currently for FDCs, so they can be purchased inexpensively. I'd hate for you to pay full scott value on a large lot like that. For that kind of money, you can get a lot more material in the current market.
Also, hold on to your husband. He sounds like a keeper!
Login to Like
this post
Lisa, I can't comment on the material because as we know, we don't know. I can say that it's easy for more junior collectors to see a lot of stamps and think they are good or valuable or whatever. my advice is: don't rush.
now, the next question is: what will you do with a world wide album spanning a bunch of years that appears to be strong in topicals and foreign celebration of US bicentennial? are you a world-wide collector? do you want to be? if yes, maybe this foots the bill.
Perhaps you could take a catalogue with you and look at the stamps you like best, or think most valuable, and see if that's true. I could easily put together a dozen stock sheets of common stamps whose collective worth is, say, a buck. Maybe this is worht a lot more.
Stamps at antiquarians are either wonderfully underpriced because they don't know what they have, philatelically speaking or they're woefully overpriced because the value being charged isn't for the stamps but something else.
Take your time and evaluate it both for its own value and its value to you. Then, armed with information, make a purchase or put that money aside until you find the right gift for yourself.
I seldom bought stuff on a whim that I later thought was a good deal.
Ask more questions if this doesn't give you what you need to make a decision.
David
Login to Like
this post
12:35:11am
Hello Lisa,
Sorry to rain on your parade, but I would say that all my experience says "No".
A rough way of valuing a collection or stockbook like this is to look at the price per page. Call it 50 pages. Is it worth $7.00 per page? Likely not. The description sounds like all the stuff out of the 1970s and 1980s that was heavily overproduced and has little market demand. The US bicentennial material is a dead give-away. The stuff is nearly impossible to sell. My guess is that the rest of the material is way over-catalogued sets from philatelic agencies that have little demand. Next guess would be pre-Euro conversion European material that no longer has postal validity. Lots of mint Germany denominated in Marks floating around!
If you are short on funds and want to continue to have fun with your collection, my suggestion is to buy smaller lots with lots of earlier used stamps. Smaller lots because a mistake doesn't hurt as much, and used, because your money will go further and provide more fun. Modern mint worldwide is just about the worst place you can spend money if you are short of funds and want to have fun with what you have.
That's my 2c worth.
Roy
Login to Like
this post
For material like that, offered in bulk, you should pay 20% to 30% of catalog value (that is 70% to 80% discount from catalog value). As others have said, I doubt the selling price is appropriate. Antique shops are usually not the place to buy stamps. The overused term "vintage" means that the seller simply added to the overly inflated price.
I have seen German Hitler head stamps in a local antique shop selling for $20 or more each, because they are "vintage World War II". Those stamps are ubiquitous and sell for mere pennies. The seller also has 19th century US stamps taped to cardboard and selling for $10 each or more, because they are "old". They are worthless.
Always best to buy from someone who knows stamps. Less chance of getting ripped off.
Login to Like
this post
Hi Lisa
I am sure you can get a better deal on Ebay for collections,
For $300-$400 you can get some nice stuff there,and as some others mentioned the bicentennial stamps and 70-80,s plateblocks are very common.
I buy collections and box lots quite often on Ebay and Vance auctions in Ontario and get some nice stuff for a few hundred bucks.
lee
Login to Like
this post
Dear Lisa,
You now have a wonderful birthday/anniversary gift from your husband, and it's called "a stamp budget". Excellent. Don't be in too much of a hurry to spend it all at once-this is a case of 'making haste, slowly'. You've made many friends here, and all are telling you the same thing- don't be too quick to jump.
A suggestion or two if I may:
First you ought to decide upon what your area of focus will be. If you're not sure yet, give yourself time to determine that BEFORE spending your stamp budget.
Next, reach out to those friends you've met here and let them know that you're in the market for particular items in your area of interest, and see if they might not be able to make stuff available to your liking.
If you're still not really decided upon a direction yet, how's this for a thought-A general statement to the membership that you have a particular budget, aren't sure yet how to spend it, and request any and all to send along thoughts for you to consider, along with what they might offer for your consideration-no obligation on anyone's part of course.
Sound like a plan?
All the best,
Dan C.
Login to Like
this post
Can't see it? Don't know it? Don't buy it.
Tim2
Login to Like
this post
09:54:39am
@pre1940classics - You're right! My husband is a keeper and I don't plan on letting go of him!
Thank you all....you gave me that little kick in the you-know-where to wake up and think about what I was doing. My guess is $400 is almost 100% cv or more so clearly not a good buy. It was a trap I hope no other new collectors fall into....a huge stock book of MNH with pretty stamps and plate blocks...it seems like a collectors dream. But as you all pointed out, it likely isn't and there is not much worse then spending money you don't really have and regretting it!
Login to Like
this post
10:20:53am
@dani20 - sadly this will not become my stamp fund. It was a purchase my husband was willing to make because he knew it would make me very happy. Since we are not making the purchase, the money will largely go to credit card debt and our mortgage. Having just bought a house in December that needed some repair, we have more bills then we want to have. BUT my husband is a keeper and will let me spend some of the money he intended to spend on the album. So I still come out a winner with a fabulous husband and some stamp money!
Login to Like
this post
And StamporamaMan saves the day again!!!
Login to Like
this post
Lisa:
When it comes to spending your own money, make your own decision. Then, if you are unhappy with the consequences, you have only yourself to blame.
John
P.S. Advice is worth what you pay for it. My free advice: do not purchase postage stamps as an investment.
Login to Like
this post
01:23:34pm
StamporamaMan!! I love him!!
John - You are correct, I would have had no one to blame but myself which is why I asked the SOR family for their help and I feel good about the decision I made. I had no intention of buying the album or any other stamps as an investment. My collection is my hobby and makes me endlessly happy and keeps me learning constantly. I simply didn't want to spend more than what the album was worth. I have read in many places on SOR that I should buy things for 10-20% of their value and I think that's a pretty good method for buying. Thank you for advice as well!
Login to Like
this post
Lisa, probably the right decision based on what little we know.
Now, about that 20 per cent. THAT all depends on the thing. For mixtures and old albums, thats probably on the high end, especially given the anticipated mixed quality of the material. For a single or set that's hard to find, that might be low.
Login to Like
this post
05:25:38pm
I have since learned that this album was priced by adding the FACE value of all of the stamps and doubling it. So apparently the face value total was $200. I realize this may work in the buyer's favor sometimes but may also work against the buyer. Is it me or this a poor method to determine an asking price? I have seen it done on EBay as well. Is it done often?
Login to Like
this post
Lisa, most, not all, recent US can be had for face, often at a discount from face. I have sometimes bought US at about 90 percent face, including shipping. Even much older US is available at or near face. You can probably find much US from, say, 1910, onward at or near face. Doubling recent US face is sure way to overpay. If theres really $200 face there, the lot might be worth that, probably no more, unless there are rarities. Again, without seeing the album and it's scope, it's tough to know.
Login to Like
this post
One reason I like used is I usually can get more, and thus fill many more spaces, for the money! Mint stamps are nice for items you really like and would enjoy displaying with no cancel, or for less common items that may appreciate more value if they are in mint condition.
I just bought several U.S. mint sheets I passed on years back, and spent only an average of 50 cents over face per sheet. So I spent "less" now because my dollar was worth a lot more in the 1980s. I can always hope the old se-tenant sheets (flags, flowers, wildlfe, etc.) will be in more demand in the near future. If not, I can always use them to dress up my mail!
Login to Like
this post
10:03:01am
Lisa, let me join in what must seem like a Philatelic Greek Chorus of cranky old men advising caution.
But what has been said or written could be chopped up, put in a blender and later distilled as the product of several centuries of missed opportunities and successful purchasing coups.
Let me add my contribution.
Antique Dealers, Used Book Sellers, Flea Market Venders, and most Coin Dealers and other such casual sellers who do not specialise in stamps are usually the last place to buy mixed lots like what you describe. While it is possible to find some album or mixed lot at a reasonable price and later find a gem concealed within, it is a long shot.
I remember seeing a full set of Scott's for sale on the shelf of one used book seller priced at more than a new set. Casually I struck up a polite conversation with the owner to ask the rational for his pricing. It was somewhat , but had something to do with the fact that the set was around five or ten years old and in his market older volumes of many reference books rose in price over the years.
My mentioning the fact that most stamp collectors wanted a new version to use in checking their collection, especially new issues and so on, I could see was falling on not just deaf ears, but a mental system that had slammed down the entire information acquisition system.
Since his shop was attached to a large, popular Flea Market (Warren's in Homosassa, Florida) right down the street, my wife and I often strolled through the extensive aisles several times a month.
Lots of bargains if you knew what you were looking for and could haggle successfully, but that Scott set was not one of them. I am sure it sat there on a shelf, and occasionally on display as an attraction for well over a year.
Every so often I'd acquire three or four year old volumes for little more than a pittance and enjoyed working the price of my latest acquisition into the conversation just to be, well a cranky old man.
At some point the used book operation at that series of booths closed. Finit !
Login to Like
this post
Everything works in the sellers favor. Look at what you have learned with a little research, time and patience. You've done good and soon you'll no longer be a newbie.
Login to Like
this post
An interesting, useful set of responses, based on a many years of experience. Well done, gentlemen. And Lisa, you were smart to ask before making a decision.
Here are a couple of pointers I've picked up over the years:
1. Common stamps are cheap and always will be because they're common. I once went into a stamp shop to see they had a particular Canadian commemorative from the 1950s that I needed to complete a page in my album. And I didn't just want any old copy of the stamp, I wanted one with a readable CDS cancel. The dealer took me into his back room, where there was a wall of shoe boxes, each one labelled with a catalogue number. He took one down, and handed it to me. It was filled with bundle ware, hundreds, perhaps thousands of copies of that stamp, all with readable CDS cancels.
2. Expensive stamps are generally hard to find, even rare -- unless the seller is someone who knows nothing about stamps, in which case the expensive stamps could be common and worth much less than the asking price.
3. When dealers evaluate collections, they don't even count common stamps, and sometimes even ignore ones in the $5-$10 category.
4. Just because common stamps are usually inexpensive doesn't mean that they aren't collectible. Errors and varieties that no one has previously noticed may raise their value considerably. And even common stamps can be represented by real gems, with perfect centring, bright "post-office-fresh" colours, perfectly applied cancellations, unique cancellations, etc., all of which means that common stamps aren't necessarily common.
Bob
Login to Like
this post
Good points, Bob.
I want to update your point #3 based on recent discussions I have had with dealers. Dealers are ignoring stamps and sets valued less than $10. Stamps valued under $10 are now considered to be "common", and wind up in the discount trays and bins. I remember when stamps that went into those bins were 5 (sometimes 10 depending on the dealer) cents or less (minimum value was 2 cents then), and the stamps were sold for 1 penny each.
Also on your point #4, inexpensive stamps are not necessarily "common" - meaning readily available. There are many that are hard to find, but low interest keeps the values down. See Latin and African country catalog listings for many of these. Try to find a dealer who has a supply of those stamps, and you will come up empty, or almost-so.
Login to Like
this post
09:19:41pm
Thank you all for sharing your knowledge with me. It's difficult as a newbie to know what to spend where and on what. All of your responses were very helpful!!
Login to Like
this post
Dear All,
I believe that we are being shown something that up to now has escaped me. We are a mulch-faceted and diverse group, with much wisdom about many things to share. Our colleagues have been pointing the way and I failed to notice:
Michael
"Author of the books: Seasons of Fantasies and Dreams ; The Whitechapel Fog"
Lisa
“It is during our darkest moments that we must focus to see the light.†Aristotle Onassis
David
"Save the USPS, buy stamps; save the hobby, use commemoratives"
If you are an author,article writer or have a particular gem of thought to share, please tack it on as a signature so the rest of us can benefit. Special thanks to Michael, Lisa & David for leading the way.
Dan C.
Login to Like
this post
In 1903 a royal courtier was talking with the Prince of Wales (the future George V): "Did your Royal Highness hear that some damned fool has just paid 1450 pounds for a single stamp?"
"Yes, he replied. "I was the damned fool".
The stamp "Mauritius, lot 301, 1847 two pence Post Office with large margins, a fine example".
You can research the history of that particular stamp and discover that it had lain forgotten in the childhood collection of a London civil servant for some 40 years. The find attracted international attention. Philatelists came from around the world to crowd the London auction rooms.
No you aren't likely to find a truly rare stamp in a collection bought at a antique shop or eBay, but you might. Like George V, I am the "damned fool", when it comes to stamps. You may not buy the stamps I place on auction, but the pleasure I derive from searching through and old collection that I probably paid too much for on eBay is priceless.
As to dealers, refusing to handle the "common stuff" or "trash", look at H.E. Harris who made a fortune selling bags of 1000 stamps to school boys for a $1. And for those of us who are hoarding our mint duplicates as postage because they won't sell, I have a prediction. Postage stamps have been and can be "demonetized". The USPS has a huge underfunded obligation with mint stamps lying fallow in collections.
Musings of a another damned fool.
Login to Like
this post
Les, there has been speculation of USPS demonetizing the older stamps. Would require federal law to do so, though.
Login to Like
this post
Les, I can relate a somewhat similar story I was told at a stamp show last weekend. Basically, the St Louis area has a stamp show once a month, and one of the dealers told me that they have an asian couple that comes in most every time, and someone had a large batch (somewhere around 300 stamps) of Chinese stamps they were selling for about $115... (guy just sells entire "collections" by country, as is from stamp collections he finds/buys/is given) the couple bought it, came back the following month and told the seller they found a $900 catalog value stamp in the collection. It basically slipped everyone's notice, because basically everyone admitted they knew a "little" about Chinese stamps, but not a bunch.
I do disagree with you cdj in regards of one of your listings... for the most part, "Flea market vendors" (IMO) are an okay place to buy lots (although there are some who I wouldn't touch with a 20 foot pole). They're usually just clearing stuff out, they don't worry about catalog value in regards to sales. Now the other three I agree with you on (In particular coin dealers are the worst, IMO). They think "catalog value" and that's it... and the odds of getting one to budge on a price, I feel is impossible.. they don't care, they want what the catalog says and that's the ONLY price they're going to offer.
Login to Like
this post
11:53:11pm
The problem with those Flea market vendors is trying to figure out which ones are knowledgeable and which are selling stamps that they bought last week at some newly minted widow's Saturday morning moving sale. There is also the question as to who's 20 ft pole I am not using, yours or mine.
But getting back to something I read years ago about supply, demand and popularity.
An "FDC" dealer passed away. His widow or executors contacted a very well known and totally honest dealer to evaluate the cabinets and cabinets, each full of letter sized drawers that were stuffed with FDCs in glassine protectors. One drawer had a notation that indicated certain valueable issues, used on envelopes. All the others were marked with the manufacturer's name and the date or appropiate number of the issue.
The dealer sat down and examined the first drawer, takig notes and figuring a price. That took some time. Once finished he stood up, riffed through a few of the other drawers and then made an estimate of the total value, which if the story is to be believed was pretty accurate.
When asked how he could be so sure about the other cabinets he explained that all he did was use a ruler to measure the length of the envelopes in inches in three or four drawers, calculate an average and then multiply that by the total number of drawers, minus the cost to ship the whole accumulation from the Mid-west to New York.
The same concept can be used with common stamps.
Login to Like
this post
03:02:42pm
I have to say that I am enjoying the postings on here in this and other threads. When I stopped collecting years ago there was none of this exchange online and one had to go to shows and meetings to get this interchange of knowledge.
Now as to the question at hand. I and my partner are regular antique'rs and are establishing a circuit that we usually hit up in a month. That being said we have come across some interesting finds in regards to antique furniture. We hit up an estate sale and I was able to grab some plates for my budding collection (specific to Johnson Bros.) for $20 and inquired about a sheet of stamps they had there for John as he is the collector for the most part. They threw them in for free as "I had no idea that was even there" (the seller's quote). Now John is more of a see it, grab it, cause it may be worth something someday collector and assumes that all old stamps are valuable cause of their age due to the fact that it is that way with antique furniture. He wasn't happy when I explained to him the values of some of the stamps in his collection. As an aside we also got a very nice pair of c1930 Duncan Phyfe chairs for $20 as well that were in VERY rough condition. Now we have a VERY nice pair of restored c1930's chairs that can sell for $150 each (we ARE NOT selling them, they will go very nicely with the dining room table he and I picked out, also Duncan Phyfe)
That was a few weeks ago. Come to now and I decided that I needed a hobby as I have too much time on my hands (slow business, anyone need a bookkeeper/accountant 
) So I decided to get back into my old hobby from when I was a teenager.
John, being the keeper that he is, gave me a chunk of what he had, not all as it wasn't my chosen field to collect (i.e. USA) and somethings he was just unwilling to part with (LNY commemorative sheets). Fine with me, I have a start now. This turned out to be just a part of my birthday present. Off we went antiquing as we usually did and we came across a stamp shop at one of the markets we goto very regularly (okay we are on a first name bases with some of the vendors LOL). There was a stamp shop in the flea market section so we hit it up. John was basically saying I could have what ever I wanted there. So after chatting with the owner for a bit I knew that she had some knowledge about the hobby (when I asked for tongs she handed me spade tips and fine tips for my choice for example) and went about haggling for some purchases. I ended up walking away with some nice finds for a VERY budding collection including a set of the 1967 centennial series at 50% CV. I also walked away with some used stuff both off and on paper to start the collection. So over all a good day.
My point here about flea markets is that unlike stamp shops and auctions you CAN haggle. If the person you are talking to has some knowledge about what they are selling (and most professional flea markets sellers do) talk to them at their own level and make a reasonable offer. Haggle over the item. If they have no clue, well you can usually tell based on the prices they are displaying for the items in question or with their responses to your inquiries and if the prices they are displaying are cheap, well we all know to grab it up ASAP! We have one booth we go to for example, if they wife is there we don't buy anything, if the husband is there we will. It has to die with the fact that the wife has an inflated value in her head and is obstinate about the prices. The husband has a better idea that selling something for a few bucks below the price means a sale, holding out puts no money in their pocket.
Now I don't mind auctions as I have gotten deals here, and I don't mind dealers (I better not as my cousin's husband is a second generation dealer and his boys will eventually take over the shop for the third generation) but sometimes you just don't get a good deal at those places. So writing off flea and antique markets is limiting your ability to enjoy your hobby. After all there is nothing like spending a nice sunny afternoon on a weekend just going around some markets and coming across a nice find, be it stamp, paper money, furniture, clocks, radios, whatever.
Login to Like
this post
I have at times wondered around a flea market and the occasional antique shop looking for stamp bargains. Most of the time I wind up getting burned by paying too much because I mistake the item for being more valuable than it really is.
I had a recent experience of buying a collection on eBay. It was a overstuffed stockbook filled with mostly used stamps and a smattering of older mint stamps from the early 20th century. I was particularly attracted to a 10X2, Providence Postmaster Provisional cataloging for about $1150. Needless to say, I "won" the bidding based primarily on that stamp. I sent the 10x2 off to APS to be expertized and learned it was counterfeit.
However the stockbook still provides me with interesting stamps to study. So all was not lost.
Login to Like
this post
12:44:07pm
To continue my line of comments in regards to flea markets. I was at a antique car show/flea market last weekend and came across a lot of 5 stamp albums. Now flipping through the albums there wasn't all that much that was probably of interest to most collectors. However we decided to grab the bunch of them anyway for a whopping $40. Why not...
Well after perusing the find more indepth back home we came across some older UPU international postage vouchers (interesting but no real value) some cheques from the 1930's with stamps on them, some value, maybe even what we paid for the entire collection and the piece de resistance of the whole thing...
A Scott Canada #90b. Mint, complete booklet!!!!! The value on this is in the $1,000's
Login to Like
this post
12:53:56pm
If the "UPU postage vouchers" are International (or Imperial) Reply Coupons, I would be interested in them.
Roy
Login to Like
this post
01:42:31am
Yes that is the vouchers I am referring to. I got one from the US like the image posted and some from Canada that are the next seried after that. Not sure what I am doing with them yet, but will most likely be keeping the unique ones. The spares I have to yet to decide what to do with.
Login to Like
this post
FYI, Scott lists the US International Reply Coupons in the US Specialized Catalog.
Login to Like
this post
It is during our darkest moments that we must focus to see the light. - Aristotle Onassis
11 Apr 2012
10:24:52pm
I have a question for the experts. My husband was at an antique/miscellaneous/junk shop today. The owner had a German album of stock pages. There were 20-30 pages (so 40-60 total) that were about 70% full. All stamps in it are MNH. There are US and foreign (many foreign were about the US bicentennial) and a large quantity of plate blocks. Stamps range from astronauts, bicentennials, desert topicals, flower topicals and more. There are several foreign FDC's as well with what he remembers as 1 or 2 cent stamps. He thinks many of them were from the 70's and 80's. I wasn't there and will not be able to get there so I can't see it for myself. My husband has looked up as many stamps as he remembers seeing and the stamps and blocks he has found range from in value from $5-$20. Those are just the ones he remembers. The owner is asking $400 for it so my husband was going to go back and offer $350. We are short on money so this would be a birthday and anniversary present but it sounds appealing. I know, there isn't a lot of information here but from what I told you, is it worth the purchase?
Login to Like
this post
10:46:33pm
re: Should I buy this album?
Hi Lisa, I would look on ebay for something comparable. You'd be surprised how many lots of goodies you can win for $350! If the seller is a non-stamp collector, he may be overestimating the value. If he is a collector, I would ask him if he/she knows the rough scott catalog value. I usually try to pay under 20% for lots that size, unless there are a few rare items in VF or better condition. It sounds fun, but for over $300 you should get more than just one stock book. The fact that your husband noted items worth several dollars apiece is promising, but remember, there is very little market currently for FDCs, so they can be purchased inexpensively. I'd hate for you to pay full scott value on a large lot like that. For that kind of money, you can get a lot more material in the current market.
Also, hold on to your husband. He sounds like a keeper!
Login to Like
this post
re: Should I buy this album?
Lisa, I can't comment on the material because as we know, we don't know. I can say that it's easy for more junior collectors to see a lot of stamps and think they are good or valuable or whatever. my advice is: don't rush.
now, the next question is: what will you do with a world wide album spanning a bunch of years that appears to be strong in topicals and foreign celebration of US bicentennial? are you a world-wide collector? do you want to be? if yes, maybe this foots the bill.
Perhaps you could take a catalogue with you and look at the stamps you like best, or think most valuable, and see if that's true. I could easily put together a dozen stock sheets of common stamps whose collective worth is, say, a buck. Maybe this is worht a lot more.
Stamps at antiquarians are either wonderfully underpriced because they don't know what they have, philatelically speaking or they're woefully overpriced because the value being charged isn't for the stamps but something else.
Take your time and evaluate it both for its own value and its value to you. Then, armed with information, make a purchase or put that money aside until you find the right gift for yourself.
I seldom bought stuff on a whim that I later thought was a good deal.
Ask more questions if this doesn't give you what you need to make a decision.
David
Login to Like
this post
BuckaCover.com - 80,000 covers priced 60c to $1.50 - Easy browsing 500 categories
12 Apr 2012
12:35:11am
re: Should I buy this album?
Hello Lisa,
Sorry to rain on your parade, but I would say that all my experience says "No".
A rough way of valuing a collection or stockbook like this is to look at the price per page. Call it 50 pages. Is it worth $7.00 per page? Likely not. The description sounds like all the stuff out of the 1970s and 1980s that was heavily overproduced and has little market demand. The US bicentennial material is a dead give-away. The stuff is nearly impossible to sell. My guess is that the rest of the material is way over-catalogued sets from philatelic agencies that have little demand. Next guess would be pre-Euro conversion European material that no longer has postal validity. Lots of mint Germany denominated in Marks floating around!
If you are short on funds and want to continue to have fun with your collection, my suggestion is to buy smaller lots with lots of earlier used stamps. Smaller lots because a mistake doesn't hurt as much, and used, because your money will go further and provide more fun. Modern mint worldwide is just about the worst place you can spend money if you are short of funds and want to have fun with what you have.
That's my 2c worth.
Roy
Login to Like
this post
01:42:40am
re: Should I buy this album?
For material like that, offered in bulk, you should pay 20% to 30% of catalog value (that is 70% to 80% discount from catalog value). As others have said, I doubt the selling price is appropriate. Antique shops are usually not the place to buy stamps. The overused term "vintage" means that the seller simply added to the overly inflated price.
I have seen German Hitler head stamps in a local antique shop selling for $20 or more each, because they are "vintage World War II". Those stamps are ubiquitous and sell for mere pennies. The seller also has 19th century US stamps taped to cardboard and selling for $10 each or more, because they are "old". They are worthless.
Always best to buy from someone who knows stamps. Less chance of getting ripped off.
Login to Like
this post
re: Should I buy this album?
Hi Lisa
I am sure you can get a better deal on Ebay for collections,
For $300-$400 you can get some nice stuff there,and as some others mentioned the bicentennial stamps and 70-80,s plateblocks are very common.
I buy collections and box lots quite often on Ebay and Vance auctions in Ontario and get some nice stuff for a few hundred bucks.
lee
Login to Like
this post
re: Should I buy this album?
Dear Lisa,
You now have a wonderful birthday/anniversary gift from your husband, and it's called "a stamp budget". Excellent. Don't be in too much of a hurry to spend it all at once-this is a case of 'making haste, slowly'. You've made many friends here, and all are telling you the same thing- don't be too quick to jump.
A suggestion or two if I may:
First you ought to decide upon what your area of focus will be. If you're not sure yet, give yourself time to determine that BEFORE spending your stamp budget.
Next, reach out to those friends you've met here and let them know that you're in the market for particular items in your area of interest, and see if they might not be able to make stuff available to your liking.
If you're still not really decided upon a direction yet, how's this for a thought-A general statement to the membership that you have a particular budget, aren't sure yet how to spend it, and request any and all to send along thoughts for you to consider, along with what they might offer for your consideration-no obligation on anyone's part of course.
Sound like a plan?
All the best,
Dan C.
Login to Like
this post
re: Should I buy this album?
Can't see it? Don't know it? Don't buy it.
Tim2
Login to Like
this post
It is during our darkest moments that we must focus to see the light. - Aristotle Onassis
12 Apr 2012
09:54:39am
re: Should I buy this album?
@pre1940classics - You're right! My husband is a keeper and I don't plan on letting go of him!
Thank you all....you gave me that little kick in the you-know-where to wake up and think about what I was doing. My guess is $400 is almost 100% cv or more so clearly not a good buy. It was a trap I hope no other new collectors fall into....a huge stock book of MNH with pretty stamps and plate blocks...it seems like a collectors dream. But as you all pointed out, it likely isn't and there is not much worse then spending money you don't really have and regretting it!
Login to Like
this post
It is during our darkest moments that we must focus to see the light. - Aristotle Onassis
12 Apr 2012
10:20:53am
re: Should I buy this album?
@dani20 - sadly this will not become my stamp fund. It was a purchase my husband was willing to make because he knew it would make me very happy. Since we are not making the purchase, the money will largely go to credit card debt and our mortgage. Having just bought a house in December that needed some repair, we have more bills then we want to have. BUT my husband is a keeper and will let me spend some of the money he intended to spend on the album. So I still come out a winner with a fabulous husband and some stamp money!
Login to Like
this post
re: Should I buy this album?
And StamporamaMan saves the day again!!!
Login to Like
this post
The past is a foreign country, they do things different there.
12 Apr 2012
12:43:13pm
re: Should I buy this album?
Lisa:
When it comes to spending your own money, make your own decision. Then, if you are unhappy with the consequences, you have only yourself to blame.
John
P.S. Advice is worth what you pay for it. My free advice: do not purchase postage stamps as an investment.
Login to Like
this post
It is during our darkest moments that we must focus to see the light. - Aristotle Onassis
12 Apr 2012
01:23:34pm
re: Should I buy this album?
StamporamaMan!! I love him!!
John - You are correct, I would have had no one to blame but myself which is why I asked the SOR family for their help and I feel good about the decision I made. I had no intention of buying the album or any other stamps as an investment. My collection is my hobby and makes me endlessly happy and keeps me learning constantly. I simply didn't want to spend more than what the album was worth. I have read in many places on SOR that I should buy things for 10-20% of their value and I think that's a pretty good method for buying. Thank you for advice as well!
Login to Like
this post
re: Should I buy this album?
Lisa, probably the right decision based on what little we know.
Now, about that 20 per cent. THAT all depends on the thing. For mixtures and old albums, thats probably on the high end, especially given the anticipated mixed quality of the material. For a single or set that's hard to find, that might be low.
Login to Like
this post
It is during our darkest moments that we must focus to see the light. - Aristotle Onassis
12 Apr 2012
05:25:38pm
re: Should I buy this album?
I have since learned that this album was priced by adding the FACE value of all of the stamps and doubling it. So apparently the face value total was $200. I realize this may work in the buyer's favor sometimes but may also work against the buyer. Is it me or this a poor method to determine an asking price? I have seen it done on EBay as well. Is it done often?
Login to Like
this post
re: Should I buy this album?
Lisa, most, not all, recent US can be had for face, often at a discount from face. I have sometimes bought US at about 90 percent face, including shipping. Even much older US is available at or near face. You can probably find much US from, say, 1910, onward at or near face. Doubling recent US face is sure way to overpay. If theres really $200 face there, the lot might be worth that, probably no more, unless there are rarities. Again, without seeing the album and it's scope, it's tough to know.
Login to Like
this post
10:10:44pm
re: Should I buy this album?
One reason I like used is I usually can get more, and thus fill many more spaces, for the money! Mint stamps are nice for items you really like and would enjoy displaying with no cancel, or for less common items that may appreciate more value if they are in mint condition.
I just bought several U.S. mint sheets I passed on years back, and spent only an average of 50 cents over face per sheet. So I spent "less" now because my dollar was worth a lot more in the 1980s. I can always hope the old se-tenant sheets (flags, flowers, wildlfe, etc.) will be in more demand in the near future. If not, I can always use them to dress up my mail!
Login to Like
this post
Silence in the face of adversity is the father of complicity and collusion, the first cousins of conspiracy..
15 Apr 2012
10:03:01am
re: Should I buy this album?
Lisa, let me join in what must seem like a Philatelic Greek Chorus of cranky old men advising caution.
But what has been said or written could be chopped up, put in a blender and later distilled as the product of several centuries of missed opportunities and successful purchasing coups.
Let me add my contribution.
Antique Dealers, Used Book Sellers, Flea Market Venders, and most Coin Dealers and other such casual sellers who do not specialise in stamps are usually the last place to buy mixed lots like what you describe. While it is possible to find some album or mixed lot at a reasonable price and later find a gem concealed within, it is a long shot.
I remember seeing a full set of Scott's for sale on the shelf of one used book seller priced at more than a new set. Casually I struck up a polite conversation with the owner to ask the rational for his pricing. It was somewhat , but had something to do with the fact that the set was around five or ten years old and in his market older volumes of many reference books rose in price over the years.
My mentioning the fact that most stamp collectors wanted a new version to use in checking their collection, especially new issues and so on, I could see was falling on not just deaf ears, but a mental system that had slammed down the entire information acquisition system.
Since his shop was attached to a large, popular Flea Market (Warren's in Homosassa, Florida) right down the street, my wife and I often strolled through the extensive aisles several times a month.
Lots of bargains if you knew what you were looking for and could haggle successfully, but that Scott set was not one of them. I am sure it sat there on a shelf, and occasionally on display as an attraction for well over a year.
Every so often I'd acquire three or four year old volumes for little more than a pittance and enjoyed working the price of my latest acquisition into the conversation just to be, well a cranky old man.
At some point the used book operation at that series of booths closed. Finit !
Login to Like
this post
03:28:17pm
re: Should I buy this album?
Everything works in the sellers favor. Look at what you have learned with a little research, time and patience. You've done good and soon you'll no longer be a newbie.
Login to Like
this post
re: Should I buy this album?
An interesting, useful set of responses, based on a many years of experience. Well done, gentlemen. And Lisa, you were smart to ask before making a decision.
Here are a couple of pointers I've picked up over the years:
1. Common stamps are cheap and always will be because they're common. I once went into a stamp shop to see they had a particular Canadian commemorative from the 1950s that I needed to complete a page in my album. And I didn't just want any old copy of the stamp, I wanted one with a readable CDS cancel. The dealer took me into his back room, where there was a wall of shoe boxes, each one labelled with a catalogue number. He took one down, and handed it to me. It was filled with bundle ware, hundreds, perhaps thousands of copies of that stamp, all with readable CDS cancels.
2. Expensive stamps are generally hard to find, even rare -- unless the seller is someone who knows nothing about stamps, in which case the expensive stamps could be common and worth much less than the asking price.
3. When dealers evaluate collections, they don't even count common stamps, and sometimes even ignore ones in the $5-$10 category.
4. Just because common stamps are usually inexpensive doesn't mean that they aren't collectible. Errors and varieties that no one has previously noticed may raise their value considerably. And even common stamps can be represented by real gems, with perfect centring, bright "post-office-fresh" colours, perfectly applied cancellations, unique cancellations, etc., all of which means that common stamps aren't necessarily common.
Bob
Login to Like
this post
05:48:38pm
re: Should I buy this album?
Good points, Bob.
I want to update your point #3 based on recent discussions I have had with dealers. Dealers are ignoring stamps and sets valued less than $10. Stamps valued under $10 are now considered to be "common", and wind up in the discount trays and bins. I remember when stamps that went into those bins were 5 (sometimes 10 depending on the dealer) cents or less (minimum value was 2 cents then), and the stamps were sold for 1 penny each.
Also on your point #4, inexpensive stamps are not necessarily "common" - meaning readily available. There are many that are hard to find, but low interest keeps the values down. See Latin and African country catalog listings for many of these. Try to find a dealer who has a supply of those stamps, and you will come up empty, or almost-so.
Login to Like
this post
It is during our darkest moments that we must focus to see the light. - Aristotle Onassis
18 Apr 2012
09:19:41pm
re: Should I buy this album?
Thank you all for sharing your knowledge with me. It's difficult as a newbie to know what to spend where and on what. All of your responses were very helpful!!
Login to Like
this post
re: Should I buy this album?
Dear All,
I believe that we are being shown something that up to now has escaped me. We are a mulch-faceted and diverse group, with much wisdom about many things to share. Our colleagues have been pointing the way and I failed to notice:
Michael
"Author of the books: Seasons of Fantasies and Dreams ; The Whitechapel Fog"
Lisa
“It is during our darkest moments that we must focus to see the light.†Aristotle Onassis
David
"Save the USPS, buy stamps; save the hobby, use commemoratives"
If you are an author,article writer or have a particular gem of thought to share, please tack it on as a signature so the rest of us can benefit. Special thanks to Michael, Lisa & David for leading the way.
Dan C.
Login to Like
this post
re: Should I buy this album?
In 1903 a royal courtier was talking with the Prince of Wales (the future George V): "Did your Royal Highness hear that some damned fool has just paid 1450 pounds for a single stamp?"
"Yes, he replied. "I was the damned fool".
The stamp "Mauritius, lot 301, 1847 two pence Post Office with large margins, a fine example".
You can research the history of that particular stamp and discover that it had lain forgotten in the childhood collection of a London civil servant for some 40 years. The find attracted international attention. Philatelists came from around the world to crowd the London auction rooms.
No you aren't likely to find a truly rare stamp in a collection bought at a antique shop or eBay, but you might. Like George V, I am the "damned fool", when it comes to stamps. You may not buy the stamps I place on auction, but the pleasure I derive from searching through and old collection that I probably paid too much for on eBay is priceless.
As to dealers, refusing to handle the "common stuff" or "trash", look at H.E. Harris who made a fortune selling bags of 1000 stamps to school boys for a $1. And for those of us who are hoarding our mint duplicates as postage because they won't sell, I have a prediction. Postage stamps have been and can be "demonetized". The USPS has a huge underfunded obligation with mint stamps lying fallow in collections.
Musings of a another damned fool.
Login to Like
this post
12:38:05pm
re: Should I buy this album?
Les, there has been speculation of USPS demonetizing the older stamps. Would require federal law to do so, though.
Login to Like
this post
re: Should I buy this album?
Les, I can relate a somewhat similar story I was told at a stamp show last weekend. Basically, the St Louis area has a stamp show once a month, and one of the dealers told me that they have an asian couple that comes in most every time, and someone had a large batch (somewhere around 300 stamps) of Chinese stamps they were selling for about $115... (guy just sells entire "collections" by country, as is from stamp collections he finds/buys/is given) the couple bought it, came back the following month and told the seller they found a $900 catalog value stamp in the collection. It basically slipped everyone's notice, because basically everyone admitted they knew a "little" about Chinese stamps, but not a bunch.
I do disagree with you cdj in regards of one of your listings... for the most part, "Flea market vendors" (IMO) are an okay place to buy lots (although there are some who I wouldn't touch with a 20 foot pole). They're usually just clearing stuff out, they don't worry about catalog value in regards to sales. Now the other three I agree with you on (In particular coin dealers are the worst, IMO). They think "catalog value" and that's it... and the odds of getting one to budge on a price, I feel is impossible.. they don't care, they want what the catalog says and that's the ONLY price they're going to offer.
Login to Like
this post
Silence in the face of adversity is the father of complicity and collusion, the first cousins of conspiracy..
22 Apr 2012
11:53:11pm
re: Should I buy this album?
The problem with those Flea market vendors is trying to figure out which ones are knowledgeable and which are selling stamps that they bought last week at some newly minted widow's Saturday morning moving sale. There is also the question as to who's 20 ft pole I am not using, yours or mine.
But getting back to something I read years ago about supply, demand and popularity.
An "FDC" dealer passed away. His widow or executors contacted a very well known and totally honest dealer to evaluate the cabinets and cabinets, each full of letter sized drawers that were stuffed with FDCs in glassine protectors. One drawer had a notation that indicated certain valueable issues, used on envelopes. All the others were marked with the manufacturer's name and the date or appropiate number of the issue.
The dealer sat down and examined the first drawer, takig notes and figuring a price. That took some time. Once finished he stood up, riffed through a few of the other drawers and then made an estimate of the total value, which if the story is to be believed was pretty accurate.
When asked how he could be so sure about the other cabinets he explained that all he did was use a ruler to measure the length of the envelopes in inches in three or four drawers, calculate an average and then multiply that by the total number of drawers, minus the cost to ship the whole accumulation from the Mid-west to New York.
The same concept can be used with common stamps.
Login to Like
this post
Back in the hobby after a 25+ year absence. Currently with VERY few stamps, no albums, no tools, no supplies and LOTS of time! I love a challenge!!! LOL
23 Apr 2012
03:02:42pm
re: Should I buy this album?
I have to say that I am enjoying the postings on here in this and other threads. When I stopped collecting years ago there was none of this exchange online and one had to go to shows and meetings to get this interchange of knowledge.
Now as to the question at hand. I and my partner are regular antique'rs and are establishing a circuit that we usually hit up in a month. That being said we have come across some interesting finds in regards to antique furniture. We hit up an estate sale and I was able to grab some plates for my budding collection (specific to Johnson Bros.) for $20 and inquired about a sheet of stamps they had there for John as he is the collector for the most part. They threw them in for free as "I had no idea that was even there" (the seller's quote). Now John is more of a see it, grab it, cause it may be worth something someday collector and assumes that all old stamps are valuable cause of their age due to the fact that it is that way with antique furniture. He wasn't happy when I explained to him the values of some of the stamps in his collection. As an aside we also got a very nice pair of c1930 Duncan Phyfe chairs for $20 as well that were in VERY rough condition. Now we have a VERY nice pair of restored c1930's chairs that can sell for $150 each (we ARE NOT selling them, they will go very nicely with the dining room table he and I picked out, also Duncan Phyfe)
That was a few weeks ago. Come to now and I decided that I needed a hobby as I have too much time on my hands (slow business, anyone need a bookkeeper/accountant ) So I decided to get back into my old hobby from when I was a teenager.
John, being the keeper that he is, gave me a chunk of what he had, not all as it wasn't my chosen field to collect (i.e. USA) and somethings he was just unwilling to part with (LNY commemorative sheets). Fine with me, I have a start now. This turned out to be just a part of my birthday present. Off we went antiquing as we usually did and we came across a stamp shop at one of the markets we goto very regularly (okay we are on a first name bases with some of the vendors LOL). There was a stamp shop in the flea market section so we hit it up. John was basically saying I could have what ever I wanted there. So after chatting with the owner for a bit I knew that she had some knowledge about the hobby (when I asked for tongs she handed me spade tips and fine tips for my choice for example) and went about haggling for some purchases. I ended up walking away with some nice finds for a VERY budding collection including a set of the 1967 centennial series at 50% CV. I also walked away with some used stuff both off and on paper to start the collection. So over all a good day.
My point here about flea markets is that unlike stamp shops and auctions you CAN haggle. If the person you are talking to has some knowledge about what they are selling (and most professional flea markets sellers do) talk to them at their own level and make a reasonable offer. Haggle over the item. If they have no clue, well you can usually tell based on the prices they are displaying for the items in question or with their responses to your inquiries and if the prices they are displaying are cheap, well we all know to grab it up ASAP! We have one booth we go to for example, if they wife is there we don't buy anything, if the husband is there we will. It has to die with the fact that the wife has an inflated value in her head and is obstinate about the prices. The husband has a better idea that selling something for a few bucks below the price means a sale, holding out puts no money in their pocket.
Now I don't mind auctions as I have gotten deals here, and I don't mind dealers (I better not as my cousin's husband is a second generation dealer and his boys will eventually take over the shop for the third generation) but sometimes you just don't get a good deal at those places. So writing off flea and antique markets is limiting your ability to enjoy your hobby. After all there is nothing like spending a nice sunny afternoon on a weekend just going around some markets and coming across a nice find, be it stamp, paper money, furniture, clocks, radios, whatever.
Login to Like
this post
re: Should I buy this album?
I have at times wondered around a flea market and the occasional antique shop looking for stamp bargains. Most of the time I wind up getting burned by paying too much because I mistake the item for being more valuable than it really is.
I had a recent experience of buying a collection on eBay. It was a overstuffed stockbook filled with mostly used stamps and a smattering of older mint stamps from the early 20th century. I was particularly attracted to a 10X2, Providence Postmaster Provisional cataloging for about $1150. Needless to say, I "won" the bidding based primarily on that stamp. I sent the 10x2 off to APS to be expertized and learned it was counterfeit.
However the stockbook still provides me with interesting stamps to study. So all was not lost.
Login to Like
this post
Back in the hobby after a 25+ year absence. Currently with VERY few stamps, no albums, no tools, no supplies and LOTS of time! I love a challenge!!! LOL
10 May 2012
12:44:07pm
re: Should I buy this album?
To continue my line of comments in regards to flea markets. I was at a antique car show/flea market last weekend and came across a lot of 5 stamp albums. Now flipping through the albums there wasn't all that much that was probably of interest to most collectors. However we decided to grab the bunch of them anyway for a whopping $40. Why not...
Well after perusing the find more indepth back home we came across some older UPU international postage vouchers (interesting but no real value) some cheques from the 1930's with stamps on them, some value, maybe even what we paid for the entire collection and the piece de resistance of the whole thing...
A Scott Canada #90b. Mint, complete booklet!!!!! The value on this is in the $1,000's
Login to Like
this post
BuckaCover.com - 80,000 covers priced 60c to $1.50 - Easy browsing 500 categories
10 May 2012
12:53:56pm
re: Should I buy this album?
If the "UPU postage vouchers" are International (or Imperial) Reply Coupons, I would be interested in them.
Roy
Login to Like
this post
Back in the hobby after a 25+ year absence. Currently with VERY few stamps, no albums, no tools, no supplies and LOTS of time! I love a challenge!!! LOL
12 May 2012
01:42:31am
re: Should I buy this album?
Yes that is the vouchers I am referring to. I got one from the US like the image posted and some from Canada that are the next seried after that. Not sure what I am doing with them yet, but will most likely be keeping the unique ones. The spares I have to yet to decide what to do with.
Login to Like
this post
02:16:30am
re: Should I buy this album?
FYI, Scott lists the US International Reply Coupons in the US Specialized Catalog.
Login to Like
this post