Discussion - Member to Member Sales - Research Center
Discussion - Member to Member Sales - Research Center
In what way has this "member" contributed to the aims and aspirations of Stamporama?
StampCommune, and some other "members", appears to use Stamporama as a vending outlet only. There are a surfeit of these on the internet and I would be disappointed should Stamporama disappear among them.
I ask this question in light of my earlier suggestion to Stamporama's board of volunteers to consider limiting the number of auction lots that a "member" could post at any one time, a suggestion that was graciously declined.
I acknowledge that there are a number of professional stamp-sellers on the auction site who contribute to Stamporama with philatelic assistance, with all sorts of other helpful information, with articles, with exhibits, with informed commentary, with website expertise, with donations monetary or otherwise, with their voluntary time, and so forth. These are not the "members" to whom I refer.
I recommend Stamporama define the word "member"; and that restrictions be put in place to prevent the auction site from being co-opted by commercial participants.
I know this is a discriminatory issue. I would appreciate the views of other members as it would be helpful to me and possibly to Stamporama's board of volunteers.
John Derry
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Dear John,
An interesting question. Technically, someone who passes through the process for membership and is accepted by the Secretary of the club as being worthy of membership. In cases that are borderline, the President and webmaster may get involved. They in turn can request input from the Volunteer Committee if they so wish.
But I don't think that this gets to the basics of your question. What is it, precisely, that troubles you about the number of auction items put up-in this case by StampCommune?
Dan C.
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It seems to me that one of the pleasures and benefits of Stamporama is the diversity of opportunities that are offered through membership.
I, personally, appreciate the increasing number of stamps available for auction and really look nowhere else to purchase stamps.
I have been a member of Stamporama for longer than I care to remember and my involvement has shifted in many different ways. in the early days I contributed to the newsletter. I then went through a period of posting lots for auction. I am an inconsistent participant in discussions but enjoy the dialogues and very much appreciate the quick responses to any questions.
At this point, I would say I am primarily focused on bidding in the auctions.......so from that point of view, i appreciate the abundance of affordable stamps for auction. They are a whole lot cheaper than the usual priceS offered by dealers, often close to CV.
Could I be criticized for not being a full participant in all the activities and discussions at Stamporama?........undoubtedly. However, i think people bring and take from a club, different things at different times and participate according to their needs.
I enjoy the diversity within Stamporama and think we would be on a slippery slope if we started trying to define 'What is a member?' I certainly have not been bothered by the 'explosion' of items offered for auction. Chris
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Well said Chris. I'm hoping John is offering the minority view regarding the number of posted items. I too enjoy reading BOTH the discussion items and auction items.
Andy
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I am also curious why someone would not like a large diversity of items available from one individual, especially at the great prices that he offers them at?
I for one am extremely thankful for Grant’s large selection of stuff. It has provided me with the opportunity to fill in lots of holes in our collection for some very affordable prices. I really don’t care that he only sells here and doesn’t participate in the discussions.
If you go to a stamp show, there are dealer’s there that don’t have anything up on display for judging. The dealer’s also don’t usually give the keynote talks either. Yet they are allowed to sell whatever they want and as much as they want.
Having seen one individual talk bad about dealers in another message thread only shows the value of having sellers like Grant, Bob Parkin and even our own Liz selling the large amount that they do here at our site. If you look at their stats, they obviously know the market and give us a way to show newer collector’s what the “true†value of a collection really is. Having these people sell the large amounts that they do also give me a good gauge at the market value of stuff I want to sell off as well.
In all honesty, I like paging through hundreds of auctions lots, hoping to find that one special stamp at that one special price. It’s a bit like a digital treasure hunt.
Anyway, I like the auction just the way it is. I hope it doesn’t get changed.
---Pat
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as an individual, I am happy for Grant's offerings. I think they are reasonably priced and often quite attractive; as others have said, they fill holes; moreover, one would never find dealers at shows offering stamps at a nickle and dimes just because they can't. I think it a great service, and one I'd never have enough time to provide even if i had the stamps to do so.
As auctioneer, we initially had a rule that limited the number of auctions one could post at any time. I insisted on it as a means of ensuring that our club wasn't hijacked either by dealers offering inflated wares or folks trying to get rid of their junk. In our early days, we seldom needed to worry about it. Eventually, I asked that the rule be rescinded, and I still think that's the right decisions. I don't see the club being hijacked by garbage men or dealers; instead, folks like Grant, Lee, Liz, and others offer lots of stamps at good prices.
I see no reason to limit lots and many reasons not to do so, prime among them that we would return to the days when we were lucky to hit 1,000 lots. Now we toy with 3K and 4K+.
I'm glad you ask the question and glad you feel free to question the status quo. Go John. But I think we're doing fine, and I'd welcome others who were such prolific listers. I'd love to see us with 20,000 lots on average. Tim can always add more specific categories.
David T
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I am also very thankful for people like Grant, Bob, Liz, and others who will post a large amount of stamps on SOR. As a "returned" stamp collector, it is one way to obtain those stamps at a savings, and be able to fill your album up. Because of these purchases from these people, I also have be able to build up relationships on a hobby while not being just a "buyer". I look forward to their postings of stamps each. Keep them coming.
Bruce W.
Scouter775
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Why are we having this discussion, it seems because one member has his nose out of joint about another person being able to list many items, um excuse me isn't that part of what this "STAMP" group is all about, I don't always post comments, but I do run through the items offered, it gives one a good line on what is happening in the world of stamps, a lot of people, myself included deal on multiple sites or clubs, buying and/or selling, why would someone want to limit anyone's exposure.
In my great grandfathers words "you never know your luck in the big city" although he never left his hometown and thought that anywhere with more than 50 people was a big city.
Thank you to the board for showing a huge amount of common sense, something very lacking today in most parts of the world
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This has been an interesting discussion. Thank you John for posting the question. The general consensus doesn't seem to feel the same, but I'm glad you put the question out there.
Regards ... Tim.
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I register officially my disagreement with John who began this thread. I LOVE seeing numerous listings from anyone who takes the time to list stamps and covers. KEEP LISTING fellow members!!!
Bruce
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Taking from our by-laws;
Article 1.1: "....The goal of Stamporama is to promote the hobby of stamp collecting as an ethical, educational, and socially constructive activity. Through its activities and internet presence, Stamporama seeks to make it possible for collectors of any age or economic circumstances to ACQUIRE and exchange stamps..."
Article 1.4 : "....Any Stamporama member may engage in any activity offered by Stamporama..."
Article 1.5 : "....Stamporama members are encouraged to comment on or participate in any aspect of the operations of Stamporama..."
First one says "...Stamporama seeks to make it possible for collectors...to ACQUIRE...stamps..."
Second one says "...Any member may engage in ANY activity..." (does NOT say they must engage in ALL)
Third one says "...members are encouraged to...participate in ANY aspect..." (does NOT say ALL)
Now - this being said, I can, on the other hand, understand what John is trying to say; I believe he is concerned that this might become "just another auction site" to sell your wares and the help and study and learning that so many of us dearly love will fall by the wayside.
I for one understand his concern and would not in any way want this to happen. If it did, I would give up my membership and go somewhere else.
BUT - I don't believe this will happen; there are too many level-headed intelligent members/collectors here (pronounced "volunteer committee") with enough common sense who would not allow this to happen.
And let me re-iterate what Tim alluded to -
Kudos, John, for being able to ask!
This is -AND SHOULD ALWAYS BE - a place where we can ask these questions if we have concerns...without fear of judgement from others! ( that was my soapbox section!)
Thank you, Stamporama for making this so.
Randy
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Members selling more stamps helps the membership:
1 - it lowers the per item cost of shipping when a member can purchase a good number of items
2 - more items for sale overall helps promote activity on this site
3 - more activity at this site will bring in more new members
4 - more members will mean more will participate
At least that is how I see it.
Now, regarding the question. Would you have asked it if Stamporama charged a sales commission to its members? The American Philatelic Society offers both online and mail circuits for APS members to sell their stamps. This includes dealer members. APS charges a sales commission to the member-seller for items sold. The APS makes no limit on the number of items that a member can offer for sale at any time. At Stamporama, the auctions is a way for members to participate in the club.
I don't have a statistic, but I would think that the percentage of members who are actually selling stamps in the auction is rather small. Would it be nice if some of those members also participate in the discussions? Certainly, and like we tell newcomers at a different philatelic site where I belong that if the sellers participate more in the discussions, their sales would likely increase. As has been proven many times over, that statement does hold true.
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I agree with Michael's comments and I do NOT currently sell on StampoRama, but intend to in the future, a healthy group be it stamps or any other type is one that is utilized by it's members in some way, be it selling, buying or discussion, all three are necessary in this group for overall health and I believe this is a very healthy group.
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I pretty much sell as much as I buy on Stamporama. Normally I buy what I believe to be a better copy of an issue I already own.....after receiving the item then I can list the other stamp at a reduced price so a beginner has a chance to add to their collection without breaking the bank. I like so many other sellers like to throw in a few extra stamps as a surprise to the buyers as a gift of friendship for being a member of Stamporama. I have been involved in other groups where it was all about the control by the top two or three, Stamporama is more like a family, whereas, all members assist wherever possible to make this the best club ever. Perry
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I wouldn't join any club that would have me as a member.
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Haha, Greenmouse according to Groucho!
Still thankful to see so many listings on our auction pages. To all past, present and future members: Keep 'em coming!!!
Bruce
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Without wanting to flog a dead horse, there was one aspect of the discussion that I feel is important. I think that when issues are raised that pertain to the philosophy of the club that the the discussion should address the broad issue and not confront a specific individual. I believe that we should follow the etiquette that I know is somewhere in the regs. and be respectful of each other.
While I felt the overall issue was a good one to discuss it bothered me to have a single person in the club identified as somehow representing the problem.In future I would appreciate discussions addressing the issue and not individuals.
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I believe that is a very good point, Chris.
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I have to agree with the sentiment of issue not person. I was a little bothered by that aspect of the initial email. Glad you mentioned that, Chris.
Fellow members: Open up the closets and list, list, list!
Bruce
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Dear Bob,
Not quite so fast my friend. We have heard from you,me,Chris,Andy,Pat,David,Lasaboy,Tim,Randy,Michael,Perry,Greenmouse,and Erudite.
We have not heard back from John. Randy assumes he understands what John meant,and perhaps he does, but I'd like to hear it from John himself.
John, earlier I asked "But I don't think that this gets to the basics of your
question. What is it, precisely, that troubles you about the number of auction
items put up-in this case by StampCommune?"
Perhaps the question has already been answered to your satisfaction. Perhaps not.
In either case your input would be the clarification needed.
Dan C.
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It is an interesting question, I suppose...
In a different community I belong to (which has nowhere NEAR as sophisticated an auction as here), you can't post anything for sale until you've contributed at least 25 posts to the forum. Of course, they have the kind of forum that keeps a "count" of your posts.
I think John's concern is about "dump and run" sellers, which are all over the web, on almost all the eBay "alt" sites you look at. Standard procedure: They "import" their feedback and inventory from eBay, and never show up on the site again. If you check more carefully, you'll notice these folks may have 5000 feedbacks, but NONE of them from the subject web site.
The primary issue I have with people "like that" is that they generally have NO idea where their inventory is. I've bought stamps, paid for them... and then been notified that 4 of the 7 lots are "no longer available." Most sellers who like to put their stuff for sale on 12 sites don't have the diligence to remove the listings from all 12 sites, when something sells. It's "sloppy business," in my opinion.
The thing is, though... as long as SOR doesn't allow "bulk uploads," doesn't allow "transfer of feedbacks" (irrelevant, as we don't have a feedback system), and doesn't allow sellers to "transfer" lots in bulk from elsewhere... I really doubt we'll have a problem with excess auction lots.
As a BUYER of stamps, I'd rather buy 14 lots from the same seller, at one time, and save on the postage. On SOR, it seems few lots are in the "expensive" range, so it makes even more sense to be able to list 100's of lots at the same time. I wouldn't buy ONE 50c stamp from someone, and then double the price with the postage fee... would you?
Just my 2c worth,
~Peter
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I think there is a feedback system, sort of on SOR. You can see how many items someone has sold and/or purchased. I would think that the higher the count on either side of that fence is an indication of someone who has been a successful seller and/or buyer. Of course that is limited, because you don't know if there have been any problems with any transactions, but it is better than nothing.
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I have mainly been buying and selling on delcampe. I mostly like it because it's relatively easy to buy and sell individual items. I used to put sets and small lots for sale, but they didn't sell, and I tend not to buy them either. if you have holes you want to fill, finding individual stamps is a better way to go.
(there are some down sides of delcampe, like (a) some sellers post 10+ copies of the same common definitive flooding the site with useless stuff, and (b) while the forum there is friendly, I don't feel it's as active and responsive as here.)
people like the seller in questions who post large number of individual items rather than lots is a asset to have on the site. I've bought one lot of stamps and they were reasonably priced, filled a few blank spaces, and I felt that the seller was a pleasure to deal with. I don't know if they are a regular contributor to the forum, but their presence on the auction site is not a problem for me.
the down side about this site is that it's a lot of work to sell individual items. those sorts of items need to stay up for months before they sell, not just 14 days, and they often work better as fixed price sales (i.e. a "shop" format rather than auction). that's why I've tried selling a few individual items here, but most of my sales stay on delcampe.
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Michael's comment about the number of lots being sold or bought IS a good indicator that the person has longevity and is reliable. I add this to the discussion, not because there are never any problems -- there are -- but there remain no outstanding problems, there were never ethical problems, and there haven't been repeat problems. No one causes problems and stays. Privileges are dependent upon good and consistent behavior. Break the rules too often and you're gone; don't delivery, gone.
On the other hand, deliver better stuff at atrocioulsy cheap prices, package your material with great covering stamps, or offer unusual stuff, and youget talked about in the DB.
That being said, few sales usually indicates newness or shyness or whatever...I'd not hold it against them, but encourage them to list or bid. Hey. That's a good idea....
David the auctioneer
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Additonal thoughts occur to me regarding the auction listings issue:
The camaraderie, friendship and free exchange of philatelic ideas has not diminished on Stamporama because we have MORE listings in the auction. Members continue to interact with each other through the discussion boards, sharing stamp stories, often bad jokes (sorry guys), philatelic accolades, etc. The discussion boards are enriched by the interests and thoughts of the members here. An auction while exciting from an acquisition standpoint is a sterile commercial entity compared to the discussion boards.
Stamps which of course must be found and either purchased from fast disappearing mortar and brick stamp stores or as is frequently the case, from online auctions fuel conversation on the boards. Finding stamps one way or another is what contributes to vitality here on SOR or elsewhere.
List away my brothers and sisters. List away!
Bruce
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Dear Stamporama members:
I thank you for your comments on this subject and other topics; I always find these fascinating, educational, frequently amusing, and always polite and without malice.
Hindsight tells me that I expressed myself ineloquently in that some have construed my comments as applicable to a specific Stamporama member. That was not my intent and I am contrite. I apologize to all members who took umbrage with my remarks.
I have probably compromised all of my principles in my long life, but I have never abandoned any of them. I still see myself as a "member in good standing" of Stamporama, and I hope I am not alone in that viewpoint.
Sincerely,
John Derry
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After all that has been said...
I personally did not take offense to any specific comment regarding this thread. Although I would like to be more involved in more areas of SOR other than the auction, I am literally working 80 - 90 hours a week between stamps and a part time job(recently did a 124 hour work week). I do frequent the discussion board on a daily basis and read everything that is posted.
As for the volume of items, it took me a year to write a program for my listing and if possible I would gladly share it but it very customized that most users would find it to be too time consuming in order to use it.
As with most threads here on SOR, positive things come from this site and I believe this thread was also one of them.
Thank you John for sharing your opinion which allowed others to share theirs.
Grant Wagoner ~ StampCommune ~
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John and Grant,
Thank you both for your postings, comments and diplomatic responses.
Personally, I value both your prescence on this site and appreciate your candor regarding this discussion thread.
This has been an excellent display of how this club should function!
I respect both your opinions and again, thanks to you both!
Randy
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Dare I say it .....'All's Well that Ends Well'...................Chris
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If the auction listings are interesting and in tune with a large amount of members, great stuff!
But how many people are going to be interested if I list 200 1d red Australia King George V definitive 1914-1920 separately. But in Australia I could list a 1,000 1d reds separately and jam ebay with buyers climbing over the top of each other to bid. lol
As a member a decision has to be made. Was the way I listed popular or not. I believe it is called fine tuning what you sell and common sense.
Interesting Topic.
Always Happy Stamping. KG5
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I believe that our auction is as good an example of a free market system as you will find. If a seller finds that a particular category, period, style etc of material sells then they will list more of it. A couple of members saw my request for pre-1900 covers and listed some and have received quite a bit of attention in the auction. Now, I'm just hoping that they'll list some more (te he he).
Regards ... Tim.
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Shameless, Tim! It would be like me challenging someone to post a Penny Black for a penny and seeing where it goes... (Hint, hint, hint)
John, I feel bad because I asked Tim if we could do bulk uploads so we could slowly build up a collection of lots for auction at a single time. It definitely wasn't done to allow people to dump stamps on the site. I don't think I've ever seen it happen here, in my opinion. There is always a varied selection to choose from; and demand does definitely drive the market on this site. I could hold off for a few months, post 1000 lots; and I would probably lose out because most of the buyers on this site are not big spenders (unless you think $100.00 a month is big money - it's all relative, right?) who could not afford to bid on everything they see.
Stamp Commune, here's to you for taking it to the max. A few years ago, we would promote Stamp Collecting Month (October) by pushing our auction totals. I know that month is a long way off; but why not keep that in mind and go for a big blowout that month? Sellers, save some gems. Buyers, save your loose change. Just a thought to pique some interest...
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I well remember when going through Stamporama auction lots took at least a couple of minutes, on a good day. What a difference a few years has made, and my collection has benefitted greatly. On a few occasions, I have purchased real gems for little more than peanuts, and many, many stamps that I've waited years to see. Here's one that's winging my way right now:
The upper right stamp pictures WWII Handley Page HP.52 Hampden bomber. In the late 1990, I was researching a postcard mailed by a Canadian airman-in-training. I learned that he was killed in 1942 when his Hampden bomber crashed in Denmark. I had never heard of the Hampden before that. I learned that it was obsolescent at the beginning of of the war, in September, 1939, and that it was one of the very few aircraft which had sufficient range to attack Germany. The Americans with their B-17s wouldn't enter the war until December, 1941, and the famous Lancaster wouldn't become operational until early in 1942.
I soon found a copy of the souvenir sheet, but the Hampden stamp had been overprinted as a souvenir for a Hong Kong stamp show. I was beginning to think that the un-overprinted souvenir sheet had never existed, despite what Scott said. Then a couple of weeks ago it was offered in the Stamporama auction, and soon it will be in my collection. As far as I know, this is the only stamp that pictures the Hampden, meaning that I will have a complete topical collection (although one postally used on cover would be nice!).
Bob
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Andrejs: A few years ago, we would promote Stamp Collecting Month (October) by pushing our auction totals. I know that month is a long way off; but why not keep that in mind and go for a big blowout that month? Sellers, save some gems. Buyers, save your loose change. Just a thought to pique some interest...
I like that idea... a lot!
Especially now we can list and "hold" for a bit.
Although I've rarely sold more than maybe 700-800 items a year on eBay, I used to save all my "best bits" for a single "super series" of auctions, once a year. It always seemed extremely well received... to the point where I developed "once a year regulars."
For ALL of StampoRama? That would be amazing!
Peter
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It was popular, back in the day. I know that I both posted my own stuff and bid on what was up for grabs. We hit, what, 1000 lots one year? Ooooh! It's a great way for all of us to promote the hobby we all love...
I'm not talking about relisting old stuff here - I say we kick it old school and go with all new lots for that month. I, for one, will list 1 cent lots for a lot of what I post that month.
Tim, keep an eye on monthly total auctions on the website. We need to break another record this year, but we need our goal set before us.
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The past is a foreign country, they do things different there.
05 Feb 2012
02:00:54pm
Today (5 Feb 2012) over 500 of the 750 or so lots being auctioned under "New Items" on Stamporama's website have been posted by a single entity, "StampCommune", ostensibly a member of the club.
In what way has this "member" contributed to the aims and aspirations of Stamporama?
StampCommune, and some other "members", appears to use Stamporama as a vending outlet only. There are a surfeit of these on the internet and I would be disappointed should Stamporama disappear among them.
I ask this question in light of my earlier suggestion to Stamporama's board of volunteers to consider limiting the number of auction lots that a "member" could post at any one time, a suggestion that was graciously declined.
I acknowledge that there are a number of professional stamp-sellers on the auction site who contribute to Stamporama with philatelic assistance, with all sorts of other helpful information, with articles, with exhibits, with informed commentary, with website expertise, with donations monetary or otherwise, with their voluntary time, and so forth. These are not the "members" to whom I refer.
I recommend Stamporama define the word "member"; and that restrictions be put in place to prevent the auction site from being co-opted by commercial participants.
I know this is a discriminatory issue. I would appreciate the views of other members as it would be helpful to me and possibly to Stamporama's board of volunteers.
John Derry
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re: discussion of the numbers of lots in the auction
Dear John,
An interesting question. Technically, someone who passes through the process for membership and is accepted by the Secretary of the club as being worthy of membership. In cases that are borderline, the President and webmaster may get involved. They in turn can request input from the Volunteer Committee if they so wish.
But I don't think that this gets to the basics of your question. What is it, precisely, that troubles you about the number of auction items put up-in this case by StampCommune?
Dan C.
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re: discussion of the numbers of lots in the auction
It seems to me that one of the pleasures and benefits of Stamporama is the diversity of opportunities that are offered through membership.
I, personally, appreciate the increasing number of stamps available for auction and really look nowhere else to purchase stamps.
I have been a member of Stamporama for longer than I care to remember and my involvement has shifted in many different ways. in the early days I contributed to the newsletter. I then went through a period of posting lots for auction. I am an inconsistent participant in discussions but enjoy the dialogues and very much appreciate the quick responses to any questions.
At this point, I would say I am primarily focused on bidding in the auctions.......so from that point of view, i appreciate the abundance of affordable stamps for auction. They are a whole lot cheaper than the usual priceS offered by dealers, often close to CV.
Could I be criticized for not being a full participant in all the activities and discussions at Stamporama?........undoubtedly. However, i think people bring and take from a club, different things at different times and participate according to their needs.
I enjoy the diversity within Stamporama and think we would be on a slippery slope if we started trying to define 'What is a member?' I certainly have not been bothered by the 'explosion' of items offered for auction. Chris
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re: discussion of the numbers of lots in the auction
Well said Chris. I'm hoping John is offering the minority view regarding the number of posted items. I too enjoy reading BOTH the discussion items and auction items.
Andy
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re: discussion of the numbers of lots in the auction
I am also curious why someone would not like a large diversity of items available from one individual, especially at the great prices that he offers them at?
I for one am extremely thankful for Grant’s large selection of stuff. It has provided me with the opportunity to fill in lots of holes in our collection for some very affordable prices. I really don’t care that he only sells here and doesn’t participate in the discussions.
If you go to a stamp show, there are dealer’s there that don’t have anything up on display for judging. The dealer’s also don’t usually give the keynote talks either. Yet they are allowed to sell whatever they want and as much as they want.
Having seen one individual talk bad about dealers in another message thread only shows the value of having sellers like Grant, Bob Parkin and even our own Liz selling the large amount that they do here at our site. If you look at their stats, they obviously know the market and give us a way to show newer collector’s what the “true†value of a collection really is. Having these people sell the large amounts that they do also give me a good gauge at the market value of stuff I want to sell off as well.
In all honesty, I like paging through hundreds of auctions lots, hoping to find that one special stamp at that one special price. It’s a bit like a digital treasure hunt.
Anyway, I like the auction just the way it is. I hope it doesn’t get changed.
---Pat
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re: discussion of the numbers of lots in the auction
as an individual, I am happy for Grant's offerings. I think they are reasonably priced and often quite attractive; as others have said, they fill holes; moreover, one would never find dealers at shows offering stamps at a nickle and dimes just because they can't. I think it a great service, and one I'd never have enough time to provide even if i had the stamps to do so.
As auctioneer, we initially had a rule that limited the number of auctions one could post at any time. I insisted on it as a means of ensuring that our club wasn't hijacked either by dealers offering inflated wares or folks trying to get rid of their junk. In our early days, we seldom needed to worry about it. Eventually, I asked that the rule be rescinded, and I still think that's the right decisions. I don't see the club being hijacked by garbage men or dealers; instead, folks like Grant, Lee, Liz, and others offer lots of stamps at good prices.
I see no reason to limit lots and many reasons not to do so, prime among them that we would return to the days when we were lucky to hit 1,000 lots. Now we toy with 3K and 4K+.
I'm glad you ask the question and glad you feel free to question the status quo. Go John. But I think we're doing fine, and I'd welcome others who were such prolific listers. I'd love to see us with 20,000 lots on average. Tim can always add more specific categories.
David T
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08:08:50pm
re: discussion of the numbers of lots in the auction
I am also very thankful for people like Grant, Bob, Liz, and others who will post a large amount of stamps on SOR. As a "returned" stamp collector, it is one way to obtain those stamps at a savings, and be able to fill your album up. Because of these purchases from these people, I also have be able to build up relationships on a hobby while not being just a "buyer". I look forward to their postings of stamps each. Keep them coming.
Bruce W.
Scouter775
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re: discussion of the numbers of lots in the auction
Why are we having this discussion, it seems because one member has his nose out of joint about another person being able to list many items, um excuse me isn't that part of what this "STAMP" group is all about, I don't always post comments, but I do run through the items offered, it gives one a good line on what is happening in the world of stamps, a lot of people, myself included deal on multiple sites or clubs, buying and/or selling, why would someone want to limit anyone's exposure.
In my great grandfathers words "you never know your luck in the big city" although he never left his hometown and thought that anywhere with more than 50 people was a big city.
Thank you to the board for showing a huge amount of common sense, something very lacking today in most parts of the world
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re: discussion of the numbers of lots in the auction
This has been an interesting discussion. Thank you John for posting the question. The general consensus doesn't seem to feel the same, but I'm glad you put the question out there.
Regards ... Tim.
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09:14:18pm
re: discussion of the numbers of lots in the auction
I register officially my disagreement with John who began this thread. I LOVE seeing numerous listings from anyone who takes the time to list stamps and covers. KEEP LISTING fellow members!!!
Bruce
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re: discussion of the numbers of lots in the auction
Taking from our by-laws;
Article 1.1: "....The goal of Stamporama is to promote the hobby of stamp collecting as an ethical, educational, and socially constructive activity. Through its activities and internet presence, Stamporama seeks to make it possible for collectors of any age or economic circumstances to ACQUIRE and exchange stamps..."
Article 1.4 : "....Any Stamporama member may engage in any activity offered by Stamporama..."
Article 1.5 : "....Stamporama members are encouraged to comment on or participate in any aspect of the operations of Stamporama..."
First one says "...Stamporama seeks to make it possible for collectors...to ACQUIRE...stamps..."
Second one says "...Any member may engage in ANY activity..." (does NOT say they must engage in ALL)
Third one says "...members are encouraged to...participate in ANY aspect..." (does NOT say ALL)
Now - this being said, I can, on the other hand, understand what John is trying to say; I believe he is concerned that this might become "just another auction site" to sell your wares and the help and study and learning that so many of us dearly love will fall by the wayside.
I for one understand his concern and would not in any way want this to happen. If it did, I would give up my membership and go somewhere else.
BUT - I don't believe this will happen; there are too many level-headed intelligent members/collectors here (pronounced "volunteer committee") with enough common sense who would not allow this to happen.
And let me re-iterate what Tim alluded to -
Kudos, John, for being able to ask!
This is -AND SHOULD ALWAYS BE - a place where we can ask these questions if we have concerns...without fear of judgement from others! ( that was my soapbox section!)
Thank you, Stamporama for making this so.
Randy
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01:04:35am
re: discussion of the numbers of lots in the auction
Members selling more stamps helps the membership:
1 - it lowers the per item cost of shipping when a member can purchase a good number of items
2 - more items for sale overall helps promote activity on this site
3 - more activity at this site will bring in more new members
4 - more members will mean more will participate
At least that is how I see it.
Now, regarding the question. Would you have asked it if Stamporama charged a sales commission to its members? The American Philatelic Society offers both online and mail circuits for APS members to sell their stamps. This includes dealer members. APS charges a sales commission to the member-seller for items sold. The APS makes no limit on the number of items that a member can offer for sale at any time. At Stamporama, the auctions is a way for members to participate in the club.
I don't have a statistic, but I would think that the percentage of members who are actually selling stamps in the auction is rather small. Would it be nice if some of those members also participate in the discussions? Certainly, and like we tell newcomers at a different philatelic site where I belong that if the sellers participate more in the discussions, their sales would likely increase. As has been proven many times over, that statement does hold true.
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re: discussion of the numbers of lots in the auction
I agree with Michael's comments and I do NOT currently sell on StampoRama, but intend to in the future, a healthy group be it stamps or any other type is one that is utilized by it's members in some way, be it selling, buying or discussion, all three are necessary in this group for overall health and I believe this is a very healthy group.
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re: discussion of the numbers of lots in the auction
I pretty much sell as much as I buy on Stamporama. Normally I buy what I believe to be a better copy of an issue I already own.....after receiving the item then I can list the other stamp at a reduced price so a beginner has a chance to add to their collection without breaking the bank. I like so many other sellers like to throw in a few extra stamps as a surprise to the buyers as a gift of friendship for being a member of Stamporama. I have been involved in other groups where it was all about the control by the top two or three, Stamporama is more like a family, whereas, all members assist wherever possible to make this the best club ever. Perry
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re: discussion of the numbers of lots in the auction
I wouldn't join any club that would have me as a member.
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12:30:08pm
re: discussion of the numbers of lots in the auction
Haha, Greenmouse according to Groucho!
Still thankful to see so many listings on our auction pages. To all past, present and future members: Keep 'em coming!!!
Bruce
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re: discussion of the numbers of lots in the auction
Without wanting to flog a dead horse, there was one aspect of the discussion that I feel is important. I think that when issues are raised that pertain to the philosophy of the club that the the discussion should address the broad issue and not confront a specific individual. I believe that we should follow the etiquette that I know is somewhere in the regs. and be respectful of each other.
While I felt the overall issue was a good one to discuss it bothered me to have a single person in the club identified as somehow representing the problem.In future I would appreciate discussions addressing the issue and not individuals.
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re: discussion of the numbers of lots in the auction
I believe that is a very good point, Chris.
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10:40:23pm
re: discussion of the numbers of lots in the auction
I have to agree with the sentiment of issue not person. I was a little bothered by that aspect of the initial email. Glad you mentioned that, Chris.
Fellow members: Open up the closets and list, list, list!
Bruce
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re: discussion of the numbers of lots in the auction
Dear Bob,
Not quite so fast my friend. We have heard from you,me,Chris,Andy,Pat,David,Lasaboy,Tim,Randy,Michael,Perry,Greenmouse,and Erudite.
We have not heard back from John. Randy assumes he understands what John meant,and perhaps he does, but I'd like to hear it from John himself.
John, earlier I asked "But I don't think that this gets to the basics of your
question. What is it, precisely, that troubles you about the number of auction
items put up-in this case by StampCommune?"
Perhaps the question has already been answered to your satisfaction. Perhaps not.
In either case your input would be the clarification needed.
Dan C.
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re: discussion of the numbers of lots in the auction
It is an interesting question, I suppose...
In a different community I belong to (which has nowhere NEAR as sophisticated an auction as here), you can't post anything for sale until you've contributed at least 25 posts to the forum. Of course, they have the kind of forum that keeps a "count" of your posts.
I think John's concern is about "dump and run" sellers, which are all over the web, on almost all the eBay "alt" sites you look at. Standard procedure: They "import" their feedback and inventory from eBay, and never show up on the site again. If you check more carefully, you'll notice these folks may have 5000 feedbacks, but NONE of them from the subject web site.
The primary issue I have with people "like that" is that they generally have NO idea where their inventory is. I've bought stamps, paid for them... and then been notified that 4 of the 7 lots are "no longer available." Most sellers who like to put their stuff for sale on 12 sites don't have the diligence to remove the listings from all 12 sites, when something sells. It's "sloppy business," in my opinion.
The thing is, though... as long as SOR doesn't allow "bulk uploads," doesn't allow "transfer of feedbacks" (irrelevant, as we don't have a feedback system), and doesn't allow sellers to "transfer" lots in bulk from elsewhere... I really doubt we'll have a problem with excess auction lots.
As a BUYER of stamps, I'd rather buy 14 lots from the same seller, at one time, and save on the postage. On SOR, it seems few lots are in the "expensive" range, so it makes even more sense to be able to list 100's of lots at the same time. I wouldn't buy ONE 50c stamp from someone, and then double the price with the postage fee... would you?
Just my 2c worth,
~Peter
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11:59:56pm
re: discussion of the numbers of lots in the auction
I think there is a feedback system, sort of on SOR. You can see how many items someone has sold and/or purchased. I would think that the higher the count on either side of that fence is an indication of someone who has been a successful seller and/or buyer. Of course that is limited, because you don't know if there have been any problems with any transactions, but it is better than nothing.
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re: discussion of the numbers of lots in the auction
I have mainly been buying and selling on delcampe. I mostly like it because it's relatively easy to buy and sell individual items. I used to put sets and small lots for sale, but they didn't sell, and I tend not to buy them either. if you have holes you want to fill, finding individual stamps is a better way to go.
(there are some down sides of delcampe, like (a) some sellers post 10+ copies of the same common definitive flooding the site with useless stuff, and (b) while the forum there is friendly, I don't feel it's as active and responsive as here.)
people like the seller in questions who post large number of individual items rather than lots is a asset to have on the site. I've bought one lot of stamps and they were reasonably priced, filled a few blank spaces, and I felt that the seller was a pleasure to deal with. I don't know if they are a regular contributor to the forum, but their presence on the auction site is not a problem for me.
the down side about this site is that it's a lot of work to sell individual items. those sorts of items need to stay up for months before they sell, not just 14 days, and they often work better as fixed price sales (i.e. a "shop" format rather than auction). that's why I've tried selling a few individual items here, but most of my sales stay on delcampe.
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re: discussion of the numbers of lots in the auction
Michael's comment about the number of lots being sold or bought IS a good indicator that the person has longevity and is reliable. I add this to the discussion, not because there are never any problems -- there are -- but there remain no outstanding problems, there were never ethical problems, and there haven't been repeat problems. No one causes problems and stays. Privileges are dependent upon good and consistent behavior. Break the rules too often and you're gone; don't delivery, gone.
On the other hand, deliver better stuff at atrocioulsy cheap prices, package your material with great covering stamps, or offer unusual stuff, and youget talked about in the DB.
That being said, few sales usually indicates newness or shyness or whatever...I'd not hold it against them, but encourage them to list or bid. Hey. That's a good idea....
David the auctioneer
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02:07:19pm
re: discussion of the numbers of lots in the auction
Additonal thoughts occur to me regarding the auction listings issue:
The camaraderie, friendship and free exchange of philatelic ideas has not diminished on Stamporama because we have MORE listings in the auction. Members continue to interact with each other through the discussion boards, sharing stamp stories, often bad jokes (sorry guys), philatelic accolades, etc. The discussion boards are enriched by the interests and thoughts of the members here. An auction while exciting from an acquisition standpoint is a sterile commercial entity compared to the discussion boards.
Stamps which of course must be found and either purchased from fast disappearing mortar and brick stamp stores or as is frequently the case, from online auctions fuel conversation on the boards. Finding stamps one way or another is what contributes to vitality here on SOR or elsewhere.
List away my brothers and sisters. List away!
Bruce
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The past is a foreign country, they do things different there.
08 Feb 2012
02:31:38pm
re: discussion of the numbers of lots in the auction
Dear Stamporama members:
I thank you for your comments on this subject and other topics; I always find these fascinating, educational, frequently amusing, and always polite and without malice.
Hindsight tells me that I expressed myself ineloquently in that some have construed my comments as applicable to a specific Stamporama member. That was not my intent and I am contrite. I apologize to all members who took umbrage with my remarks.
I have probably compromised all of my principles in my long life, but I have never abandoned any of them. I still see myself as a "member in good standing" of Stamporama, and I hope I am not alone in that viewpoint.
Sincerely,
John Derry
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03:06:53pm
re: discussion of the numbers of lots in the auction
After all that has been said...
I personally did not take offense to any specific comment regarding this thread. Although I would like to be more involved in more areas of SOR other than the auction, I am literally working 80 - 90 hours a week between stamps and a part time job(recently did a 124 hour work week). I do frequent the discussion board on a daily basis and read everything that is posted.
As for the volume of items, it took me a year to write a program for my listing and if possible I would gladly share it but it very customized that most users would find it to be too time consuming in order to use it.
As with most threads here on SOR, positive things come from this site and I believe this thread was also one of them.
Thank you John for sharing your opinion which allowed others to share theirs.
Grant Wagoner ~ StampCommune ~
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re: discussion of the numbers of lots in the auction
John and Grant,
Thank you both for your postings, comments and diplomatic responses.
Personally, I value both your prescence on this site and appreciate your candor regarding this discussion thread.
This has been an excellent display of how this club should function!
I respect both your opinions and again, thanks to you both!
Randy
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re: discussion of the numbers of lots in the auction
Dare I say it .....'All's Well that Ends Well'...................Chris
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re: discussion of the numbers of lots in the auction
If the auction listings are interesting and in tune with a large amount of members, great stuff!
But how many people are going to be interested if I list 200 1d red Australia King George V definitive 1914-1920 separately. But in Australia I could list a 1,000 1d reds separately and jam ebay with buyers climbing over the top of each other to bid. lol
As a member a decision has to be made. Was the way I listed popular or not. I believe it is called fine tuning what you sell and common sense.
Interesting Topic.
Always Happy Stamping. KG5
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re: discussion of the numbers of lots in the auction
I believe that our auction is as good an example of a free market system as you will find. If a seller finds that a particular category, period, style etc of material sells then they will list more of it. A couple of members saw my request for pre-1900 covers and listed some and have received quite a bit of attention in the auction. Now, I'm just hoping that they'll list some more (te he he).
Regards ... Tim.
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re: discussion of the numbers of lots in the auction
Shameless, Tim! It would be like me challenging someone to post a Penny Black for a penny and seeing where it goes... (Hint, hint, hint)
John, I feel bad because I asked Tim if we could do bulk uploads so we could slowly build up a collection of lots for auction at a single time. It definitely wasn't done to allow people to dump stamps on the site. I don't think I've ever seen it happen here, in my opinion. There is always a varied selection to choose from; and demand does definitely drive the market on this site. I could hold off for a few months, post 1000 lots; and I would probably lose out because most of the buyers on this site are not big spenders (unless you think $100.00 a month is big money - it's all relative, right?) who could not afford to bid on everything they see.
Stamp Commune, here's to you for taking it to the max. A few years ago, we would promote Stamp Collecting Month (October) by pushing our auction totals. I know that month is a long way off; but why not keep that in mind and go for a big blowout that month? Sellers, save some gems. Buyers, save your loose change. Just a thought to pique some interest...
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re: discussion of the numbers of lots in the auction
I well remember when going through Stamporama auction lots took at least a couple of minutes, on a good day. What a difference a few years has made, and my collection has benefitted greatly. On a few occasions, I have purchased real gems for little more than peanuts, and many, many stamps that I've waited years to see. Here's one that's winging my way right now:
The upper right stamp pictures WWII Handley Page HP.52 Hampden bomber. In the late 1990, I was researching a postcard mailed by a Canadian airman-in-training. I learned that he was killed in 1942 when his Hampden bomber crashed in Denmark. I had never heard of the Hampden before that. I learned that it was obsolescent at the beginning of of the war, in September, 1939, and that it was one of the very few aircraft which had sufficient range to attack Germany. The Americans with their B-17s wouldn't enter the war until December, 1941, and the famous Lancaster wouldn't become operational until early in 1942.
I soon found a copy of the souvenir sheet, but the Hampden stamp had been overprinted as a souvenir for a Hong Kong stamp show. I was beginning to think that the un-overprinted souvenir sheet had never existed, despite what Scott said. Then a couple of weeks ago it was offered in the Stamporama auction, and soon it will be in my collection. As far as I know, this is the only stamp that pictures the Hampden, meaning that I will have a complete topical collection (although one postally used on cover would be nice!).
Bob
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re: discussion of the numbers of lots in the auction
Andrejs: A few years ago, we would promote Stamp Collecting Month (October) by pushing our auction totals. I know that month is a long way off; but why not keep that in mind and go for a big blowout that month? Sellers, save some gems. Buyers, save your loose change. Just a thought to pique some interest...
I like that idea... a lot!
Especially now we can list and "hold" for a bit.
Although I've rarely sold more than maybe 700-800 items a year on eBay, I used to save all my "best bits" for a single "super series" of auctions, once a year. It always seemed extremely well received... to the point where I developed "once a year regulars."
For ALL of StampoRama? That would be amazing!
Peter
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re: discussion of the numbers of lots in the auction
It was popular, back in the day. I know that I both posted my own stuff and bid on what was up for grabs. We hit, what, 1000 lots one year? Ooooh! It's a great way for all of us to promote the hobby we all love...
I'm not talking about relisting old stuff here - I say we kick it old school and go with all new lots for that month. I, for one, will list 1 cent lots for a lot of what I post that month.
Tim, keep an eye on monthly total auctions on the website. We need to break another record this year, but we need our goal set before us.
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