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What we collect!
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General Philatelic/Gen. Discussion : Cancels, Postmark Theme Old New How Why.

 

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KG5
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25 Nov 2011
10:57:06pm
One of my favourite part strikes. Chill is one of my boys favourite sayings when things get a little heated and heading in a bad direction. In one of those bad family male moments I managed to show them this little gem and it really caught them off guard and instantly calmed things down and gave me a chance to reinforce that there's enough hate & revenge in the world without adding any more. One of those dad moments. John


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KG5
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25 Nov 2011
11:10:09pm
re: Cancels, Postmark Theme Old New How Why.

Both of these items were posted from the same place, months apart. Each had a catalogue in the envelope but have been processed very differently by Australi Post. This auction is at a place called Ballina and I have known the husbane & wife who run it for some time. Sadly Di was no longer with us for the last auction and dearly missed by many. KG5

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KG5
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26 Nov 2011
02:28:12am
re: Cancels, Postmark Theme Old New How Why.

Something a bit different "Strawberry Hills" one of the tiny suburbs in Sydney proper!

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cdj1122
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Silence in the face of adversity is the father of complicity and collusion, the first cousins of conspiracy..

26 Nov 2011
10:16:46am
re: Cancels, Postmark Theme Old New How Why.

In the US nice large envelopes are taken out into the parking lot where a fair sized truck is driven through an ink puddle and then over the envelopes in bulk.

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".... You may think you understood what you thought I said, but I'm not sure you realize that what you think you heard is not what I thought I meant. .... "
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Mike

26 Nov 2011
04:05:06pm
re: Cancels, Postmark Theme Old New How Why.

Charlie,
Only when they bother to cancel them at all. Most of my mail, recently hasn't even been cancelled or even pen-cancelled. What's us with that? I don't have the wherewithall to use those uncancelled stamps, but maybe the folks I send them to do, thereby endangering the postal system of more lost revenue. LOL

John, those were great subjests and thanks for sharing them with us.

Mike

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"It's been 7 years now, since I joined a support group for procrastinators. We haven't met yet..."
KG5
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29 Nov 2011
12:41:36am
re: Cancels, Postmark Theme Old New How Why.

Did you get the number on that truck cdj. lol lol

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Stampaholic
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29 Nov 2011
06:34:11am

Auctions - Approvals
re: Cancels, Postmark Theme Old New How Why.

Truck? those stamps look like they escaped from a wood chipper.

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" I have a burning love for stamps. Lord A'mighty ,feel my temperature risin'! "
cdj1122
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Silence in the face of adversity is the father of complicity and collusion, the first cousins of conspiracy..

29 Nov 2011
11:54:30am
re: Cancels, Postmark Theme Old New How Why.

No, not a wood chipper. They have strategicly placed converted wheat harvestors that process the smaller envelopes, especially envelopes with decent high value stamps..

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amsd
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Editor, Seal News; contributor, JuicyHeads

29 Nov 2011
02:31:59pm

Auctions
re: Cancels, Postmark Theme Old New How Why.

I see. It all makes sense. First the wheat harvesters go through the wheat, the chaffe, and the large covers. Some goes into the Postal service; the rest are made into Post Toasties and placed inside cereal boxed cancels.

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KG5
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01 Dec 2011
08:25:29pm
re: Cancels, Postmark Theme Old New How Why.

Nice cancel a long way from home.


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amsd
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Editor, Seal News; contributor, JuicyHeads

01 Dec 2011
10:28:31pm

Auctions
re: Cancels, Postmark Theme Old New How Why.

you are right, John. it held together rather than becoming porridge. i am actually fond of these illustrated cancels, when they work, which becomes rarerer and rarerer.

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KG5
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04 Dec 2011
01:29:45am
re: Cancels, Postmark Theme Old New How Why.

The name on these early Australia cancels has changed to Bendigo.

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Rhinelander
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04 Dec 2011
10:07:50am
re: Cancels, Postmark Theme Old New How Why.

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It actually is a real problem how to automatize the handling of large and thick envelopes. It does not appear the postal service has figured it out yet. I also receive many larger envelopes with uncancelled stamps. Incidentally, I am also not seeing the large format ink-jet (spray-on cancels) on envelopes all that frequently anymore. Maybe there is some large scale re-tooling in progress and some new canceller types for such mail will be introduced. The "tire-track" actually also has become illusive. Yes these are ugly, but it is difficult to find uniformly inked cancels with fully legible town and date.

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KG5
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05 Dec 2011
12:57:52am
re: Cancels, Postmark Theme Old New How Why.

This is a typical black spray on cancel here in Australia on an item from USA. It looks like they hit this envelope twice. Their is also an orange cancel that can be just seen "bottom right".


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KG5
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18 Dec 2011
05:56:26am
re: Cancels, Postmark Theme Old New How Why.

A large Country-City type Post Office still has a hand cancel for parcel post items. Which is very nice to see these days. A "Ballarat Mail Center 12th Jan 2010 Victoria 3354" cancel on stamps from the 4th Sep 2001.

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ScanStamps
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18 Dec 2011
01:40:46pm
re: Cancels, Postmark Theme Old New How Why.

It's odd, what you get. And don't get...

I've always collected postally used stamps. From my collecting "infancy" (I was six), I always thought it was interesting to see where a stamp "came from." As a junior collector, I'd read postmarks and then wade through my dad's box of National Geographic maps to see if I could find the country, and then town, where a stamp had been mailed from.

At around age 20(-ish) I became a "serious" cancel collector. I couldn't afford "expensive" stamps, but I could afford inexpensive stamps with full readable postmarks.

Many collectors "stopped collecting" (aka: gave up on new issues) thanks to the proliferation of stamps issued. I "gave up" later than most... not because of the number of new stamps, but when spray-on (and similar) postal markings became the de-facto standard for postal systems around the world. I won't belabor the point here; I wrote a blog entry about it, a few months back, if anyone is interested:

I Stopped Collecting Stamps in 1985

I've contemplated taking up collections from smaller less-developed nations in Africa or South America where automation is not yet a fact of life, except maybe in large cities. Maybe it makes me a relic to hold onto some expectation that mail processing would somehow stay the same...

And then there are the interesting bits. One of my business vendors (they know nothing of stamp collecting, nor that I collect) occasionally send me stuff in Priority and Express mail envelopes. And they are always franked with current US Express Mail or Priority Mail stamps, and are always neatly hand canceled? Why? Because the sender (A) packs everything ahead of time but his single computer runs his cash register, not a shipping service and (B) he's really anal about handing in the mail at the post office and "getting today's postmark" from the counter clerk, to prove his prompt service.

... still, it makes me sad to see all these "canceled by postal truck" envelopes otherwise in my mailbox...


Peter


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KG5
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19 Dec 2011
03:15:39am
re: Cancels, Postmark Theme Old New How Why.

Thanks for sharing Peter! It is nice to get to meet others. John


One from our mail box today. Came from the UK Devon. Bottom left "Luke 2:10". This stamp is very small.


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cdj1122
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Silence in the face of adversity is the father of complicity and collusion, the first cousins of conspiracy..

19 Dec 2011
12:47:55pm
re: Cancels, Postmark Theme Old New How Why.

Clean legible circular date stamped Cancels are a lot harder to find than mint, full gummed stamps ir even nice looking corner circles.Image Not Found

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KG5
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19 Dec 2011
08:12:54pm
re: Cancels, Postmark Theme Old New How Why.

Wow! Really nice lot of stamps cdj.

So many clear small round cancels with readable place names.
Now that took a lot of kiloware to collect so many perfect round cancels.

The Queen with a dogs head.lol. It is amazing what cancels we come across.

Thanks for sharing cdj. John

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ScanStamps
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20 Dec 2011
01:26:17pm
re: Cancels, Postmark Theme Old New How Why.

Nice lot of Machins, there! It IS a lot of work to come up with cancels in that kind of quality, in any numbers.

~Peter

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KG5
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22 Dec 2011
02:46:06am
re: Cancels, Postmark Theme Old New How Why.

These cancels are common place now.

The best way for me to collect these two cancels is to keep them on a piece with the full digital cancel included. Something like this.


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cdj1122
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Silence in the face of adversity is the father of complicity and collusion, the first cousins of conspiracy..

22 Dec 2011
03:22:57pm
re: Cancels, Postmark Theme Old New How Why.

The first and only general rule of philately is;
" ... Collect what you want, the way you want to !!! ..."

" .... I almost despise the spray on cancellations that several countries have adopted that are essentially illegible tracks of blurry ink spots and avoid then as soon as a decent replacement can be found. Most of them remind me of a photo of a herd of gazelles or something racing across a trackless desert as viewed from low space orbit that was in the National Geographic a few years ago. ...."

What I do like

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".... You may think you understood what you thought I said, but I'm not sure you realize that what you think you heard is not what I thought I meant. .... "
joelgrebin

23 Dec 2011
05:17:47pm
re: Cancels, Postmark Theme Old New How Why.

Say KG5,
The Postmark Collectors Club has been collecting these types of postmarks for decades. In fact, the "tubafores" were the preferred form to collect. There are tens of thousands of these postmarks in the Postmark Museum in Lyme, Ohio. There still are many collectors who collect "on piece" postmarks but there is a emphasis on collecting the whole cover.
Joel

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KG5
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23 Dec 2011
07:21:04pm
re: Cancels, Postmark Theme Old New How Why.

An interesting place for cancels joelgrebin I have never heard of it before.

Letter size covers I collect whole but large envelops and parcel post items generally get cut down for storage and I have only been collecting recent covers that come in the mail for about 2 years.

I am very much enjoying collecting covers like this. As I have a few stamping friends that send me this and that and I return covers as well.

It is not my favorite way to collect as it seems to be a very bulky and untidy way to do it. I went through my stock books of covers the other day and everything needed to be straightened and pages turned very carefully so as the covers to stay in place.

It is nice that these covers have a story to them and I hope as I get older I will remember. I have started to write the story down and store it with the cover.

Stamping is amazing there is always a new way to collect.


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amsd
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Editor, Seal News; contributor, JuicyHeads

24 Dec 2011
07:19:32am

Auctions
re: Cancels, Postmark Theme Old New How Why.

John, ah, the mess. yes, it's bulky and awkward and, if you're like me, you save the entire cover and the fronts of larger package, unless the back tells an important aspect of the story, too.

I write information on 3x5 cards and insert in the envelop IF i've id'd the stamp or the rate or have something to say about the sender or recipient or the period.


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Bobstamp
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24 Dec 2011
11:55:03am
re: Cancels, Postmark Theme Old New How Why.

I use six- and four-pocket Vario stock sheets for the majority of my covers. I also have a Lighthouse album designed for #10 business-size covers. I haven't sprung for any of their products yet, but 11X17 Inc. sells a large variety of binders, paper and sheet protectors. It's not a philatelic supply company, but collectors certainly could take advantage of their products.

Bob

P.S. I have come to think of modern covers, i.e. those with postage-meter postage rather than stamps inkjet "secret code" cancellations, or with unconcealed stamps, or, worse, pen cancellations, as food for the recycling bin (although I do remove the stamps to sell at club auctions or occasionally use on mail (which is how I get even with Canada Post for its often slovenly and even destructive mail delivery "service"). Older covers, issued before 1975 (when the Vietnam War ended) get my attention if they fit within my collecting interests. I will remove stamps from covers if they have no other redeeming qualities such as interesting origins or addressees, unusual or attractive cancellations, unusual franking, revealing contents, etc.

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joelgrebin

24 Dec 2011
06:24:23pm
re: Cancels, Postmark Theme Old New How Why.


KG5, the following is a link to the Postmark Collectors Club.
Joel


http://postmarks.org/

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KG5
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30 Dec 2011
01:55:01pm
re: Cancels, Postmark Theme Old New How Why.

Thanks for the link joelgrebin!

It is very interesting and sounds like a heap of work has been done by volunteers for many, many years, good on them.
Interesting that they talk about "postmarks" and not cancels. I might have been told wrong but I was told by many US & Can people that nobody calls cancels postmarks in their country. If you use the word postmark in a description no one will know what you are talking about in the US & Can.
Also mailing and shipping but never posting because they will not know what you are talking about.
Interesting, I wonder what the truth is now. A simple thing but confusing.

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michael78651

30 Dec 2011
04:41:14pm
re: Cancels, Postmark Theme Old New How Why.

I think "cancel" is used more extensively in the US than "postmark", but when it comes to needing proof of mailing on the envelope, then the instructions (such as for payment of taxes) state "postmarked by such and such a date".

We "mail" and we "ship", we do not "post" things to others, except on chat boards like this.

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cdj1122
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Silence in the face of adversity is the father of complicity and collusion, the first cousins of conspiracy..

30 Dec 2011
05:26:17pm
re: Cancels, Postmark Theme Old New How Why.

The various pecularities of linguists between different English speakers are reminiscent of Darwin's Finche's beaks.

In fact, were it not for the invention of mass verbal communication the different usages would be totally incompehensible to one another already.

Churchill's quote about two nations, "United by a common culture and divided by a common language" comes to mind.

Years ago when I was still sailing we often would pick up a Trinity House Pilot near Dover for the run along the Dutch Coast to Germany or into Scandanavian waters. One in particular was our pilot several times and from the minute he climbed halfway up the Jacob's Ladder to the ship's rail to when he left he cracked jokes, most of which he seemed to get enormous pleasure from. I, and the other members of the ship's crew in the wheel house would seldom have any idea what he was talking about or what was so funny about his humor. But since the ship's skippers laughed when he did, we all went along with the program out of politeness and, at least if we were close enough for him to see us, laughed with him.
If he had not laughed himself, we would have had no idea whether it was a joke or a tragic story about some close relative's unexpected passing.

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amsd
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Editor, Seal News; contributor, JuicyHeads

30 Dec 2011
08:38:22pm

Auctions
re: Cancels, Postmark Theme Old New How Why.

I think of cancels as the "killer" and postmarks as the city identifier. So, in the wavy "flag" type defacers of the 40s-90s in the US, the wavy lines are the killer and the CDS is the postmark. I don't know if that is correct terminology at all.

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joelgrebin

31 Dec 2011
11:17:06am
re: Cancels, Postmark Theme Old New How Why.

It seems to me that "a rose by any other name is still a rose".

Joel

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Bobstamp
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31 Dec 2011
05:54:22pm
re: Cancels, Postmark Theme Old New How Why.

Our friend, Wikipedia, has a comprehensive article about cancellations. A quote:

"The term 'postal marking' sometimes is used to refer specifically to the part that contains the date and posting location, although the term often is used interchangeably with 'cancellation.' The portion of a cancellation that is designed to deface the stamp and does not contain writing is also called the 'obliteration' or killer."

Bob

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KG5
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12 Jan 2012
12:02:54am
re: Cancels, Postmark Theme Old New How Why.

It is nice to be reminded about the term CDS.

Circular Date Stamp. It would have to be the best description for the world market.

As a child I was told that CDS is the way your call the circular cancels but somehow I forgot.

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KG5
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16 Jan 2012
08:23:29pm
re: Cancels, Postmark Theme Old New How Why.

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Some cancels out of kiloware.

How can Australia Post claim to be 200 years old when Federation happened in 1901 & the first Australian stamp was issued in 1913? Before this the states or colonies were in control of the mail & I also believe that some states would not accept a letter with another state's stamp on it. It had to carry the stamps of both states.

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Tim
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16 Jan 2012
08:39:35pm
re: Cancels, Postmark Theme Old New How Why.

In Australia in 1901 as a part of Federation, the colonial post services were combined under a central organization called the Postmaster General or the PMG. I'm showing my age but I can remember when the postoffice was still called the PMG. As a part of their 200 year celebration Australia Post has published quite an interesting website. To get the the two hundred years that they are celebrating, I guess they count the time from when the post colonial postal services started in 1809.

Regards ... Tim.

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"Isaac Asimov once said if his doctor told him he was dying, he wouldn’t lament, he would just type a little faster. "

mncancels.org
michael78651

17 Jan 2012
12:11:40am
re: Cancels, Postmark Theme Old New How Why.

Well, Wizards do live a long time.

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KG5
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17 Jan 2012
02:29:25am
re: Cancels, Postmark Theme Old New How Why.

Thanks Tim.

That gives the "200 years" of Australia Post a lot of extra polish.

I must confess I to rememder PMG and the old red PMG Bedford mail vans.

Had a great uncle who was a Post Master. I can still see him checking out the quailty of the incoming stamp sheets. As he said those misperfs are worth money and so do other flaws and I get to be the person to look first. He also informed me that he had a lot of stamp collecting friends, with a laugh.

Good memeries. John.

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KG5
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08 Feb 2012
09:03:41pm
re: Cancels, Postmark Theme Old New How Why.

Just a word of encouragement to the people that love their cancels or circular date stamps or postmarks or flavor cancels etc.

I know you are out their. It would be great to have you share with us no matter how humble or great your posting would be.

Always Happy Stamping. John

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08 Feb 2012
09:49:45pm

Auctions - Approvals
re: Cancels, Postmark Theme Old New How Why.

Hello friends!

Nice stamps and cancellations!. Here is one of my favorites; I love the Penguins!

Ross Dependency / Agency - Christchurch / May 22, 2002

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Regards,
Rodolfo


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Tim
Collector, Webmaster

08 Feb 2012
10:00:59pm
re: Cancels, Postmark Theme Old New How Why.

A very nice cover Rodolfo. Nice clear cancels. I am a fan of Penguins too.

Do you have friends down there in the Ross Dependency?

Regards ... Tim

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"Isaac Asimov once said if his doctor told him he was dying, he wouldn’t lament, he would just type a little faster. "

mncancels.org
bulldog
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09 Feb 2012
08:36:52am
re: Cancels, Postmark Theme Old New How Why.

Thumbs up to all of you who collect postmarks. I collect Belgian parcel post stamps with postmarks and the complexity, varieties, and fun seem to have no limits. I don't believe one could put together a "complete" collection in a dozen lifetimes. Another plus, the vast majority of the stamps are affordable.
Terry

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michael78651

09 Feb 2012
01:47:49pm
re: Cancels, Postmark Theme Old New How Why.

Terry, that is a daunting task, but a fascinating one that you are involved in. I think there was a discussion here last year about collecting Belgian PP stamps. I don't know how easy it is to find old posts here to help you find it , in case you're interested.

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ScanStamps
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10 Feb 2012
12:01:09pm
re: Cancels, Postmark Theme Old New How Why.

I think one of the things I like most about cancel collecting is that you can "keep going" almost indefinitely without bumping your head against some invisible "financial ceiling." I also really enjoy the "treasure hunting" aspects of being able to find something that is really valuable in an ordinary "box lot."

My early Sweden cancel collection sprung from the fact that I was getting to a point where all the remaining "holes" in my collection would cost $100+ to fill... but I could afford to buy common classic stamps in quantity, to look for postmarks (and plate varieties).


Peter

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10 Feb 2012
01:36:47pm

Auctions - Approvals
re: Cancels, Postmark Theme Old New How Why.

"A very nice cover Rodolfo. Nice clear cancels. I am a fan of Penguins too.
Do you have friends down there in the Ross Dependency?
Regards ... Tim"


Thanks for your kind comment Tim!. I used to have a friend there, but he is not longer living in that beautiful place. I want to take this opportunity to kindly invite you to visit my Penguin Stamps Collection at: RTVstamps/Penguins

Regards!
Rodolfo
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Tim
Collector, Webmaster

10 Feb 2012
10:12:58pm
re: Cancels, Postmark Theme Old New How Why.

Hi Rodolfo,
I very much enjoyed your collection of philatelic material all based around Penguins. You have done a really nice job there. I particularly enjoyed the covers. I haven't seen those FDC's from Australian Antarctic Territory before. The cover and stamps that you have from the Hutt River Provence caught my attention. I'm sure that most of our members haven't heard of the Hutt River Provence, it is a small territory that has officially (or unofficially depending on who you talk to) seceded from Australia and has actually been recognized by some countries. I did a little research and found it an interesting read. Rodolfo, do you know if you can get them to send a cancelled cover through the mail? That would be fun to have.

Regards ... Tim.

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"Isaac Asimov once said if his doctor told him he was dying, he wouldn’t lament, he would just type a little faster. "

mncancels.org
KG5
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13 Feb 2012
03:38:14pm
re: Cancels, Postmark Theme Old New How Why.

Some Air Mail cancels. They come in many shapes and sizes. A favorite of mine. My collection is still very small but slowly growing.


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KG5
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13 Feb 2012
03:49:15pm
re: Cancels, Postmark Theme Old New How Why.

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13 Feb 2012
03:50:51pm
re: Cancels, Postmark Theme Old New How Why.

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13 Feb 2012
03:51:43pm
re: Cancels, Postmark Theme Old New How Why.

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AIF Overprints on King George V Stamps: New Discoveries

By Ronald M. Lee. Portion-: Copied as a learning tool

For many years philatelists have been puzzled by these overprints, who produced them, and the circumstances which led to their production.

The solution was thought to be provided in articles published in the philatelic press in the 1980s. This suggested that the stamps were overprinted by an Australian army officer by the name of Merrillus, who posted letters franked by these stamps from the troop ship OMRAH during World War I. The letters were written on Orient Line stationery and the addressee was assumed to be the writer’s wife. Unfortunately no records of an AIF officer by the name Merrillus could be found, and the articles were speculative.

The breakthrough came when I was corresponding with a Mr. R.S. Merrillees and mentioned my interest in Australian military postal history. He indicated that it was his grandfather who had produced the AIF over-prints. A careful reexamination of the name on the envelopes revealed that they were addressed to Mrs. Merrillees not Merrillus – the loops of the ‘EE’ were so fine that we had read the ‘EE’ as ‘U’!

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13 Feb 2012
03:59:12pm

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re: Cancels, Postmark Theme Old New How Why.

i never looked closely enough at the US equivalent of the early pictorial airmail cancel to see whether there are variants. Your Australian examples lead me to think that it's possible.

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13 Feb 2012
04:03:20pm
re: Cancels, Postmark Theme Old New How Why.

Dear KG5,
Very interesting stuff indeed. Might you be able to be persuaded to put it together into an article so that we could post it for reference in our article section?
Dan C.

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Tim
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13 Feb 2012
07:03:03pm
re: Cancels, Postmark Theme Old New How Why.

Excellent idea Dan. It would be great KG5 if you could.

Regards ... Tim

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"Isaac Asimov once said if his doctor told him he was dying, he wouldn’t lament, he would just type a little faster. "

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14 Feb 2012
01:04:58am
re: Cancels, Postmark Theme Old New How Why.

@ David

The American Bi-Plane Air-Mail Saves Time slogan cancels are among the most popular slogan cancels. I collect them, and so do many others. A great number of studies are devoted to this one cancel.

Re: Terminology stamp/postmark/cancel

I always wanted to weigh in on this question, but now I am finding the time. Let's take a step back and go back to the first adhesive stamp, the British 1840 Penny Black. The stamps, issued in sheets of 240, bore a quite peculiar inscription in the sheet margins: "Price 1d per label. 1/- per row of 12. £1 per sheet. Place the labels above the address and towards the right hand side of the letter. In wetting the back, be careful not to remove the cement."

Source: Wm. Ward The Postage Stamps of Great Britain

So, at first, there were no "stamps," but self-adhesive labels. Which, if you think about it, is a much more accurate term than the word "stamp" since really nothing is stamped here.

Prior to the advent of "stamps" we are in the pre-phialtelic, stampless period. Of course this period lasted several hundred years. The way mail was handled, and which markings were usually applied, changed considerably over the time. Shortly before the introduction of stamps a typical cover looked like this. I will be using examples from my county seat, Ravenna, Ohio, for illustration:

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This cover shows two markings, a postmark indicating the date and location where the letter was mailed, and a rate stamp (3 cents paid). Smaller post office will have the postmark in manuscript (hand written), because the US Postal department only supplied stamps for this purpose to larger offices and postmasters at smaller offices had to buy these out of their own pockets. Rate stamps commonly only existed for the most common rates, and are also quite frequently found in manuscript. The envelope actually is from 1854. It can be dated because the letter content fortunately survived. This cover dates from the transistion period where we start seeing more and more envelopes. Making envelopes was still a manual process at the time. The first envelope folding machines did not exist until the mid 1840s and had to be manually fed single sheets of paper. I recommend the following, very nice reading if you are interested in more detail.

The History of Envelopes

But I degress .. So, why do we use the word 'stamp' for the labels we collect? Because the labels took over the function of the rate stamp on the envelope. A rapid shift in meaning took place: by applying the labels, the letter now was "stamped."


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This cover is cancelled May 24, 1859. The postmark (townmark) was used to "cancel" (deface, obliterate, render invalid for repeat use) the adhesive stamps. Stamps in the U.S. were first issued in 1845 (NY postmaster provisionals) and then in 1847 the first regular issue followed. The postal regulations accompanying the stamp issuance stated: "Stamps so affixed are to be immediately cancelled in the office in which the letter or packet may be deposited, with an instrument to be furnished to certain of the post offices for that prpose. In post office not so furnished, the stamps must be cancelled by making a cross X on each with a pen ..."

Well, someone must not have paid attention. Very commonly the townmark -- or ironically the now obsolete rate stamps -- were used to cancel the stamps. Apparently, postmasters did not want to touch the letter twice, first applying the town mark and in a second step cancelling the stamp.

However, the days of defiance were numbered. In a new regulation of July 23, 1860 the POD was getting serious and demanded: "Postmasters are prohibited from using the marking or rating stamp to cancel the postage stamps, it being found very imperfect; and a distinct canceller must be used."

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The above cover was postmarked Sep. 17, 1860, a few months after the effective date of the new regulation, which threatened postmaster with removal from office for violating proper cancelling etiquette. So, here we see the advent of the fancy cancel.

To sum it up, prior to postage stamps, there was no need to cancel anything. Proper offical terminology, such as marking and rating stamp or canceller, as used for instance in the actual postal regulations cited above, is probably historically most accurate and proper for postal history exhibits. I understand that the word cancel has come to mean all postmarks, whether they cancel anything or not. I believe this is less precice and useful. However, I have to admit that if not for changes in the meaning of words, we all would be collecting labels yet. Most likely, at the time someone similarily ranted about such abuse of language.

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14 Feb 2012
05:37:24am
re: Cancels, Postmark Theme Old New How Why.

Dear Rhinelander,
Most excellent stuff. MIght you and KG5 consider co-authoring a dynamite article on this topic for our archives?
Dan C.

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14 Feb 2012
09:49:19pm
re: Cancels, Postmark Theme Old New How Why.

Hi Dan.:)

David's post is extremely good and so is everyone's posting on this thread and any other thread for that matter. The best part about a discussion thread, is all the postings are equally as good as each other because it makes up the whole of the groups discussion on any given topic.
To make a good discussion thread all people need to feel that no matter how great or small the posting is, it all adds up to the whole topic. It is such a great way to learn about stamping.

As for articles this is a new concept to me and I will learn what is really meant by doing an article I am sure. I'm all for information that helps us to learn, that is free of cost.

I love discussion threads because all people can join in on any given topic. I am not the best writer in the world, that is for sure but I will not let it stop me from having a go at trying to post on a topic.

Always Happy Stamping. John

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15 Feb 2012
12:05:08am

Auctions - Approvals
re: Cancels, Postmark Theme Old New How Why.

Hello friend Tim!

Thanks a lot for your kind comments about mi Penguin page. Yes, the Hutt stamps are very interesting.

Regards!
Rodolfo

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15 Feb 2012
01:09:24pm
re: Cancels, Postmark Theme Old New How Why.

Hey John,
Our Articles Master Ralph is a good place to start to getting into the swing of things-and if I can be of any help consider it done. You are the Chief, and I am the Indian to back your play however I might.

Many of our members are quite skilled in article wring, just take a look at the articles currently on file. Each and every one of the writers is most generous with advice/time/tips so feel free to tap into any and all.

Looking forward,
Dan C.

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17 Feb 2012
06:11:47pm
re: Cancels, Postmark Theme Old New How Why.

Hi Dan,

I don't think I would want to get into article writing at this time. Like John (KGV), I enjoy the potentially interactive format of the discussion board better than articles.

Arno

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17 Feb 2012
07:08:13pm
re: Cancels, Postmark Theme Old New How Why.

Arno,

You (and we) can have the best of both worlds. What you could do is write a short article for Stamporama, and then post information about it in the discussion board. Ask people to read it, ask questions, make comments, proffer roses or throw brickbats, and there's your discussion as well.

Bob

P.S. I talk big, but I haven't written a Stamporama article for ages. OK, it's on my list now...but you don't know how long my list is! :-)

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26 Feb 2012
08:16:30pm
re: Cancels, Postmark Theme Old New How Why.

WW11 Field Post Office 170, Cover, Australia Military, Many Postmarks.

GEO.ADAMS is George Adams who owned Tattersalls Lottery base in Tasmania.
I believe this address is a safe address for the true receiver of the letter? The number 051046 is Tattersalls reg No, on receiving the letter?
Not many covers came registered or were read by censor before sealing the envelope. This makes me think it is an Officer's letter.
I can find 2 covers online with 2 stamps to 6d. The 3d extra cost was for reg post?

Some of the Field Post Offices (FPO) is in the Netherlands West Indies and P&G area?
It has been very hard for me to find info but their is a book written by "Proud" that has the answers I believe. I do not have one. All the references are to auctions.


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26 Feb 2012
08:34:54pm
re: Cancels, Postmark Theme Old New How Why.

A different Military mailing place name not a (FPO) Field Post Office.

Aust Army Post Office 216.

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FPO 192 and a typed address.

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26 Feb 2012
08:41:12pm
re: Cancels, Postmark Theme Old New How Why.

FPO 174 Opened by censor? But no official censor cancel!

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28 Mar 2012
06:44:05pm
re: Cancels, Postmark Theme Old New How Why.

A nice clear cancel. I have never seen one as good as this one before.
It sold for a good price as well.

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04 Apr 2012
09:45:31am
re: Cancels, Postmark Theme Old New How Why.

"FPO 174 Opened by censor? But no official censor cancel!"



I don't think this was opened by censor. The signed tape (selvedge used as tape) on the flap is a frequently seen "seal" for registered mail. The cover is dated Oct 24, 1945. The war was over. I don't know he exact date, but I suspect that censorship on domestic (including from FPO) mail ceased some time before that.

Roy


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25 Nov 2011
10:57:06pm

One of my favourite part strikes. Chill is one of my boys favourite sayings when things get a little heated and heading in a bad direction. In one of those bad family male moments I managed to show them this little gem and it really caught them off guard and instantly calmed things down and gave me a chance to reinforce that there's enough hate & revenge in the world without adding any more. One of those dad moments. John


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25 Nov 2011
11:10:09pm

re: Cancels, Postmark Theme Old New How Why.

Both of these items were posted from the same place, months apart. Each had a catalogue in the envelope but have been processed very differently by Australi Post. This auction is at a place called Ballina and I have known the husbane & wife who run it for some time. Sadly Di was no longer with us for the last auction and dearly missed by many. KG5

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26 Nov 2011
02:28:12am

re: Cancels, Postmark Theme Old New How Why.

Something a bit different "Strawberry Hills" one of the tiny suburbs in Sydney proper!

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Silence in the face of adversity is the father of complicity and collusion, the first cousins of conspiracy..
26 Nov 2011
10:16:46am

re: Cancels, Postmark Theme Old New How Why.

In the US nice large envelopes are taken out into the parking lot where a fair sized truck is driven through an ink puddle and then over the envelopes in bulk.

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Mike
26 Nov 2011
04:05:06pm

re: Cancels, Postmark Theme Old New How Why.

Charlie,
Only when they bother to cancel them at all. Most of my mail, recently hasn't even been cancelled or even pen-cancelled. What's us with that? I don't have the wherewithall to use those uncancelled stamps, but maybe the folks I send them to do, thereby endangering the postal system of more lost revenue. LOL

John, those were great subjests and thanks for sharing them with us.

Mike

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29 Nov 2011
12:41:36am

re: Cancels, Postmark Theme Old New How Why.

Did you get the number on that truck cdj. lol lol

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29 Nov 2011
06:34:11am

Auctions - Approvals

re: Cancels, Postmark Theme Old New How Why.

Truck? those stamps look like they escaped from a wood chipper.

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" I have a burning love for stamps. Lord A'mighty ,feel my temperature risin'! "

Silence in the face of adversity is the father of complicity and collusion, the first cousins of conspiracy..
29 Nov 2011
11:54:30am

re: Cancels, Postmark Theme Old New How Why.

No, not a wood chipper. They have strategicly placed converted wheat harvestors that process the smaller envelopes, especially envelopes with decent high value stamps..

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Editor, Seal News; contributor, JuicyHeads
29 Nov 2011
02:31:59pm

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re: Cancels, Postmark Theme Old New How Why.

I see. It all makes sense. First the wheat harvesters go through the wheat, the chaffe, and the large covers. Some goes into the Postal service; the rest are made into Post Toasties and placed inside cereal boxed cancels.

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KG5

01 Dec 2011
08:25:29pm

re: Cancels, Postmark Theme Old New How Why.

Nice cancel a long way from home.


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01 Dec 2011
10:28:31pm

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re: Cancels, Postmark Theme Old New How Why.

you are right, John. it held together rather than becoming porridge. i am actually fond of these illustrated cancels, when they work, which becomes rarerer and rarerer.

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04 Dec 2011
01:29:45am

re: Cancels, Postmark Theme Old New How Why.

The name on these early Australia cancels has changed to Bendigo.

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04 Dec 2011
10:07:50am

re: Cancels, Postmark Theme Old New How Why.

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It actually is a real problem how to automatize the handling of large and thick envelopes. It does not appear the postal service has figured it out yet. I also receive many larger envelopes with uncancelled stamps. Incidentally, I am also not seeing the large format ink-jet (spray-on cancels) on envelopes all that frequently anymore. Maybe there is some large scale re-tooling in progress and some new canceller types for such mail will be introduced. The "tire-track" actually also has become illusive. Yes these are ugly, but it is difficult to find uniformly inked cancels with fully legible town and date.

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05 Dec 2011
12:57:52am

re: Cancels, Postmark Theme Old New How Why.

This is a typical black spray on cancel here in Australia on an item from USA. It looks like they hit this envelope twice. Their is also an orange cancel that can be just seen "bottom right".


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18 Dec 2011
05:56:26am

re: Cancels, Postmark Theme Old New How Why.

A large Country-City type Post Office still has a hand cancel for parcel post items. Which is very nice to see these days. A "Ballarat Mail Center 12th Jan 2010 Victoria 3354" cancel on stamps from the 4th Sep 2001.

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18 Dec 2011
01:40:46pm

re: Cancels, Postmark Theme Old New How Why.

It's odd, what you get. And don't get...

I've always collected postally used stamps. From my collecting "infancy" (I was six), I always thought it was interesting to see where a stamp "came from." As a junior collector, I'd read postmarks and then wade through my dad's box of National Geographic maps to see if I could find the country, and then town, where a stamp had been mailed from.

At around age 20(-ish) I became a "serious" cancel collector. I couldn't afford "expensive" stamps, but I could afford inexpensive stamps with full readable postmarks.

Many collectors "stopped collecting" (aka: gave up on new issues) thanks to the proliferation of stamps issued. I "gave up" later than most... not because of the number of new stamps, but when spray-on (and similar) postal markings became the de-facto standard for postal systems around the world. I won't belabor the point here; I wrote a blog entry about it, a few months back, if anyone is interested:

I Stopped Collecting Stamps in 1985

I've contemplated taking up collections from smaller less-developed nations in Africa or South America where automation is not yet a fact of life, except maybe in large cities. Maybe it makes me a relic to hold onto some expectation that mail processing would somehow stay the same...

And then there are the interesting bits. One of my business vendors (they know nothing of stamp collecting, nor that I collect) occasionally send me stuff in Priority and Express mail envelopes. And they are always franked with current US Express Mail or Priority Mail stamps, and are always neatly hand canceled? Why? Because the sender (A) packs everything ahead of time but his single computer runs his cash register, not a shipping service and (B) he's really anal about handing in the mail at the post office and "getting today's postmark" from the counter clerk, to prove his prompt service.

... still, it makes me sad to see all these "canceled by postal truck" envelopes otherwise in my mailbox...


Peter


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KG5

19 Dec 2011
03:15:39am

re: Cancels, Postmark Theme Old New How Why.

Thanks for sharing Peter! It is nice to get to meet others. John


One from our mail box today. Came from the UK Devon. Bottom left "Luke 2:10". This stamp is very small.


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Silence in the face of adversity is the father of complicity and collusion, the first cousins of conspiracy..
19 Dec 2011
12:47:55pm

re: Cancels, Postmark Theme Old New How Why.

Clean legible circular date stamped Cancels are a lot harder to find than mint, full gummed stamps ir even nice looking corner circles.Image Not Found

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KG5

19 Dec 2011
08:12:54pm

re: Cancels, Postmark Theme Old New How Why.

Wow! Really nice lot of stamps cdj.

So many clear small round cancels with readable place names.
Now that took a lot of kiloware to collect so many perfect round cancels.

The Queen with a dogs head.lol. It is amazing what cancels we come across.

Thanks for sharing cdj. John

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20 Dec 2011
01:26:17pm

re: Cancels, Postmark Theme Old New How Why.

Nice lot of Machins, there! It IS a lot of work to come up with cancels in that kind of quality, in any numbers.

~Peter

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KG5

22 Dec 2011
02:46:06am

re: Cancels, Postmark Theme Old New How Why.

These cancels are common place now.

The best way for me to collect these two cancels is to keep them on a piece with the full digital cancel included. Something like this.


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Silence in the face of adversity is the father of complicity and collusion, the first cousins of conspiracy..
22 Dec 2011
03:22:57pm

re: Cancels, Postmark Theme Old New How Why.

The first and only general rule of philately is;
" ... Collect what you want, the way you want to !!! ..."

" .... I almost despise the spray on cancellations that several countries have adopted that are essentially illegible tracks of blurry ink spots and avoid then as soon as a decent replacement can be found. Most of them remind me of a photo of a herd of gazelles or something racing across a trackless desert as viewed from low space orbit that was in the National Geographic a few years ago. ...."

What I do like

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joelgrebin

23 Dec 2011
05:17:47pm

re: Cancels, Postmark Theme Old New How Why.

Say KG5,
The Postmark Collectors Club has been collecting these types of postmarks for decades. In fact, the "tubafores" were the preferred form to collect. There are tens of thousands of these postmarks in the Postmark Museum in Lyme, Ohio. There still are many collectors who collect "on piece" postmarks but there is a emphasis on collecting the whole cover.
Joel

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KG5

23 Dec 2011
07:21:04pm

re: Cancels, Postmark Theme Old New How Why.

An interesting place for cancels joelgrebin I have never heard of it before.

Letter size covers I collect whole but large envelops and parcel post items generally get cut down for storage and I have only been collecting recent covers that come in the mail for about 2 years.

I am very much enjoying collecting covers like this. As I have a few stamping friends that send me this and that and I return covers as well.

It is not my favorite way to collect as it seems to be a very bulky and untidy way to do it. I went through my stock books of covers the other day and everything needed to be straightened and pages turned very carefully so as the covers to stay in place.

It is nice that these covers have a story to them and I hope as I get older I will remember. I have started to write the story down and store it with the cover.

Stamping is amazing there is always a new way to collect.


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amsd

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24 Dec 2011
07:19:32am

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re: Cancels, Postmark Theme Old New How Why.

John, ah, the mess. yes, it's bulky and awkward and, if you're like me, you save the entire cover and the fronts of larger package, unless the back tells an important aspect of the story, too.

I write information on 3x5 cards and insert in the envelop IF i've id'd the stamp or the rate or have something to say about the sender or recipient or the period.


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Bobstamp

24 Dec 2011
11:55:03am

re: Cancels, Postmark Theme Old New How Why.

I use six- and four-pocket Vario stock sheets for the majority of my covers. I also have a Lighthouse album designed for #10 business-size covers. I haven't sprung for any of their products yet, but 11X17 Inc. sells a large variety of binders, paper and sheet protectors. It's not a philatelic supply company, but collectors certainly could take advantage of their products.

Bob

P.S. I have come to think of modern covers, i.e. those with postage-meter postage rather than stamps inkjet "secret code" cancellations, or with unconcealed stamps, or, worse, pen cancellations, as food for the recycling bin (although I do remove the stamps to sell at club auctions or occasionally use on mail (which is how I get even with Canada Post for its often slovenly and even destructive mail delivery "service"). Older covers, issued before 1975 (when the Vietnam War ended) get my attention if they fit within my collecting interests. I will remove stamps from covers if they have no other redeeming qualities such as interesting origins or addressees, unusual or attractive cancellations, unusual franking, revealing contents, etc.

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joelgrebin

24 Dec 2011
06:24:23pm

re: Cancels, Postmark Theme Old New How Why.


KG5, the following is a link to the Postmark Collectors Club.
Joel


http://postmarks.org/

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KG5

30 Dec 2011
01:55:01pm

re: Cancels, Postmark Theme Old New How Why.

Thanks for the link joelgrebin!

It is very interesting and sounds like a heap of work has been done by volunteers for many, many years, good on them.
Interesting that they talk about "postmarks" and not cancels. I might have been told wrong but I was told by many US & Can people that nobody calls cancels postmarks in their country. If you use the word postmark in a description no one will know what you are talking about in the US & Can.
Also mailing and shipping but never posting because they will not know what you are talking about.
Interesting, I wonder what the truth is now. A simple thing but confusing.

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michael78651

30 Dec 2011
04:41:14pm

re: Cancels, Postmark Theme Old New How Why.

I think "cancel" is used more extensively in the US than "postmark", but when it comes to needing proof of mailing on the envelope, then the instructions (such as for payment of taxes) state "postmarked by such and such a date".

We "mail" and we "ship", we do not "post" things to others, except on chat boards like this.

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Silence in the face of adversity is the father of complicity and collusion, the first cousins of conspiracy..
30 Dec 2011
05:26:17pm

re: Cancels, Postmark Theme Old New How Why.

The various pecularities of linguists between different English speakers are reminiscent of Darwin's Finche's beaks.

In fact, were it not for the invention of mass verbal communication the different usages would be totally incompehensible to one another already.

Churchill's quote about two nations, "United by a common culture and divided by a common language" comes to mind.

Years ago when I was still sailing we often would pick up a Trinity House Pilot near Dover for the run along the Dutch Coast to Germany or into Scandanavian waters. One in particular was our pilot several times and from the minute he climbed halfway up the Jacob's Ladder to the ship's rail to when he left he cracked jokes, most of which he seemed to get enormous pleasure from. I, and the other members of the ship's crew in the wheel house would seldom have any idea what he was talking about or what was so funny about his humor. But since the ship's skippers laughed when he did, we all went along with the program out of politeness and, at least if we were close enough for him to see us, laughed with him.
If he had not laughed himself, we would have had no idea whether it was a joke or a tragic story about some close relative's unexpected passing.

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amsd

Editor, Seal News; contributor, JuicyHeads
30 Dec 2011
08:38:22pm

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re: Cancels, Postmark Theme Old New How Why.

I think of cancels as the "killer" and postmarks as the city identifier. So, in the wavy "flag" type defacers of the 40s-90s in the US, the wavy lines are the killer and the CDS is the postmark. I don't know if that is correct terminology at all.

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joelgrebin

31 Dec 2011
11:17:06am

re: Cancels, Postmark Theme Old New How Why.

It seems to me that "a rose by any other name is still a rose".

Joel

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Bobstamp

31 Dec 2011
05:54:22pm

re: Cancels, Postmark Theme Old New How Why.

Our friend, Wikipedia, has a comprehensive article about cancellations. A quote:

"The term 'postal marking' sometimes is used to refer specifically to the part that contains the date and posting location, although the term often is used interchangeably with 'cancellation.' The portion of a cancellation that is designed to deface the stamp and does not contain writing is also called the 'obliteration' or killer."

Bob

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KG5

12 Jan 2012
12:02:54am

re: Cancels, Postmark Theme Old New How Why.

It is nice to be reminded about the term CDS.

Circular Date Stamp. It would have to be the best description for the world market.

As a child I was told that CDS is the way your call the circular cancels but somehow I forgot.

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KG5

16 Jan 2012
08:23:29pm

re: Cancels, Postmark Theme Old New How Why.

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Some cancels out of kiloware.

How can Australia Post claim to be 200 years old when Federation happened in 1901 & the first Australian stamp was issued in 1913? Before this the states or colonies were in control of the mail & I also believe that some states would not accept a letter with another state's stamp on it. It had to carry the stamps of both states.

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auldstampguy

Tim
Collector, Webmaster
16 Jan 2012
08:39:35pm

re: Cancels, Postmark Theme Old New How Why.

In Australia in 1901 as a part of Federation, the colonial post services were combined under a central organization called the Postmaster General or the PMG. I'm showing my age but I can remember when the postoffice was still called the PMG. As a part of their 200 year celebration Australia Post has published quite an interesting website. To get the the two hundred years that they are celebrating, I guess they count the time from when the post colonial postal services started in 1809.

Regards ... Tim.

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michael78651

17 Jan 2012
12:11:40am

re: Cancels, Postmark Theme Old New How Why.

Well, Wizards do live a long time.

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KG5

17 Jan 2012
02:29:25am

re: Cancels, Postmark Theme Old New How Why.

Thanks Tim.

That gives the "200 years" of Australia Post a lot of extra polish.

I must confess I to rememder PMG and the old red PMG Bedford mail vans.

Had a great uncle who was a Post Master. I can still see him checking out the quailty of the incoming stamp sheets. As he said those misperfs are worth money and so do other flaws and I get to be the person to look first. He also informed me that he had a lot of stamp collecting friends, with a laugh.

Good memeries. John.

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KG5

08 Feb 2012
09:03:41pm

re: Cancels, Postmark Theme Old New How Why.

Just a word of encouragement to the people that love their cancels or circular date stamps or postmarks or flavor cancels etc.

I know you are out their. It would be great to have you share with us no matter how humble or great your posting would be.

Always Happy Stamping. John

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rtvstamps

08 Feb 2012
09:49:45pm

Auctions - Approvals

re: Cancels, Postmark Theme Old New How Why.

Hello friends!

Nice stamps and cancellations!. Here is one of my favorites; I love the Penguins!

Ross Dependency / Agency - Christchurch / May 22, 2002

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Regards,
Rodolfo


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Tim
Collector, Webmaster
08 Feb 2012
10:00:59pm

re: Cancels, Postmark Theme Old New How Why.

A very nice cover Rodolfo. Nice clear cancels. I am a fan of Penguins too.

Do you have friends down there in the Ross Dependency?

Regards ... Tim

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bulldog

09 Feb 2012
08:36:52am

re: Cancels, Postmark Theme Old New How Why.

Thumbs up to all of you who collect postmarks. I collect Belgian parcel post stamps with postmarks and the complexity, varieties, and fun seem to have no limits. I don't believe one could put together a "complete" collection in a dozen lifetimes. Another plus, the vast majority of the stamps are affordable.
Terry

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michael78651

09 Feb 2012
01:47:49pm

re: Cancels, Postmark Theme Old New How Why.

Terry, that is a daunting task, but a fascinating one that you are involved in. I think there was a discussion here last year about collecting Belgian PP stamps. I don't know how easy it is to find old posts here to help you find it , in case you're interested.

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ScanStamps

10 Feb 2012
12:01:09pm

re: Cancels, Postmark Theme Old New How Why.

I think one of the things I like most about cancel collecting is that you can "keep going" almost indefinitely without bumping your head against some invisible "financial ceiling." I also really enjoy the "treasure hunting" aspects of being able to find something that is really valuable in an ordinary "box lot."

My early Sweden cancel collection sprung from the fact that I was getting to a point where all the remaining "holes" in my collection would cost $100+ to fill... but I could afford to buy common classic stamps in quantity, to look for postmarks (and plate varieties).


Peter

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rtvstamps

10 Feb 2012
01:36:47pm

Auctions - Approvals

re: Cancels, Postmark Theme Old New How Why.

"A very nice cover Rodolfo. Nice clear cancels. I am a fan of Penguins too.
Do you have friends down there in the Ross Dependency?
Regards ... Tim"


Thanks for your kind comment Tim!. I used to have a friend there, but he is not longer living in that beautiful place. I want to take this opportunity to kindly invite you to visit my Penguin Stamps Collection at: RTVstamps/Penguins

Regards!
Rodolfo
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Tim
Collector, Webmaster
10 Feb 2012
10:12:58pm

re: Cancels, Postmark Theme Old New How Why.

Hi Rodolfo,
I very much enjoyed your collection of philatelic material all based around Penguins. You have done a really nice job there. I particularly enjoyed the covers. I haven't seen those FDC's from Australian Antarctic Territory before. The cover and stamps that you have from the Hutt River Provence caught my attention. I'm sure that most of our members haven't heard of the Hutt River Provence, it is a small territory that has officially (or unofficially depending on who you talk to) seceded from Australia and has actually been recognized by some countries. I did a little research and found it an interesting read. Rodolfo, do you know if you can get them to send a cancelled cover through the mail? That would be fun to have.

Regards ... Tim.

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KG5

13 Feb 2012
03:38:14pm

re: Cancels, Postmark Theme Old New How Why.

Some Air Mail cancels. They come in many shapes and sizes. A favorite of mine. My collection is still very small but slowly growing.


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KG5

13 Feb 2012
03:49:15pm

re: Cancels, Postmark Theme Old New How Why.

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KG5

13 Feb 2012
03:50:51pm

re: Cancels, Postmark Theme Old New How Why.

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KG5

13 Feb 2012
03:51:43pm

re: Cancels, Postmark Theme Old New How Why.

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AIF Overprints on King George V Stamps: New Discoveries

By Ronald M. Lee. Portion-: Copied as a learning tool

For many years philatelists have been puzzled by these overprints, who produced them, and the circumstances which led to their production.

The solution was thought to be provided in articles published in the philatelic press in the 1980s. This suggested that the stamps were overprinted by an Australian army officer by the name of Merrillus, who posted letters franked by these stamps from the troop ship OMRAH during World War I. The letters were written on Orient Line stationery and the addressee was assumed to be the writer’s wife. Unfortunately no records of an AIF officer by the name Merrillus could be found, and the articles were speculative.

The breakthrough came when I was corresponding with a Mr. R.S. Merrillees and mentioned my interest in Australian military postal history. He indicated that it was his grandfather who had produced the AIF over-prints. A careful reexamination of the name on the envelopes revealed that they were addressed to Mrs. Merrillees not Merrillus – the loops of the ‘EE’ were so fine that we had read the ‘EE’ as ‘U’!

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amsd

Editor, Seal News; contributor, JuicyHeads
13 Feb 2012
03:59:12pm

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re: Cancels, Postmark Theme Old New How Why.

i never looked closely enough at the US equivalent of the early pictorial airmail cancel to see whether there are variants. Your Australian examples lead me to think that it's possible.

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dani20

13 Feb 2012
04:03:20pm

re: Cancels, Postmark Theme Old New How Why.

Dear KG5,
Very interesting stuff indeed. Might you be able to be persuaded to put it together into an article so that we could post it for reference in our article section?
Dan C.

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auldstampguy

Tim
Collector, Webmaster
13 Feb 2012
07:03:03pm

re: Cancels, Postmark Theme Old New How Why.

Excellent idea Dan. It would be great KG5 if you could.

Regards ... Tim

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"Isaac Asimov once said if his doctor told him he was dying, he wouldn’t lament, he would just type a little faster. "

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Rhinelander

Support the Hobby -- Join the American Philatelic Society
14 Feb 2012
01:04:58am

re: Cancels, Postmark Theme Old New How Why.

@ David

The American Bi-Plane Air-Mail Saves Time slogan cancels are among the most popular slogan cancels. I collect them, and so do many others. A great number of studies are devoted to this one cancel.

Re: Terminology stamp/postmark/cancel

I always wanted to weigh in on this question, but now I am finding the time. Let's take a step back and go back to the first adhesive stamp, the British 1840 Penny Black. The stamps, issued in sheets of 240, bore a quite peculiar inscription in the sheet margins: "Price 1d per label. 1/- per row of 12. £1 per sheet. Place the labels above the address and towards the right hand side of the letter. In wetting the back, be careful not to remove the cement."

Source: Wm. Ward The Postage Stamps of Great Britain

So, at first, there were no "stamps," but self-adhesive labels. Which, if you think about it, is a much more accurate term than the word "stamp" since really nothing is stamped here.

Prior to the advent of "stamps" we are in the pre-phialtelic, stampless period. Of course this period lasted several hundred years. The way mail was handled, and which markings were usually applied, changed considerably over the time. Shortly before the introduction of stamps a typical cover looked like this. I will be using examples from my county seat, Ravenna, Ohio, for illustration:

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This cover shows two markings, a postmark indicating the date and location where the letter was mailed, and a rate stamp (3 cents paid). Smaller post office will have the postmark in manuscript (hand written), because the US Postal department only supplied stamps for this purpose to larger offices and postmasters at smaller offices had to buy these out of their own pockets. Rate stamps commonly only existed for the most common rates, and are also quite frequently found in manuscript. The envelope actually is from 1854. It can be dated because the letter content fortunately survived. This cover dates from the transistion period where we start seeing more and more envelopes. Making envelopes was still a manual process at the time. The first envelope folding machines did not exist until the mid 1840s and had to be manually fed single sheets of paper. I recommend the following, very nice reading if you are interested in more detail.

The History of Envelopes

But I degress .. So, why do we use the word 'stamp' for the labels we collect? Because the labels took over the function of the rate stamp on the envelope. A rapid shift in meaning took place: by applying the labels, the letter now was "stamped."


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This cover is cancelled May 24, 1859. The postmark (townmark) was used to "cancel" (deface, obliterate, render invalid for repeat use) the adhesive stamps. Stamps in the U.S. were first issued in 1845 (NY postmaster provisionals) and then in 1847 the first regular issue followed. The postal regulations accompanying the stamp issuance stated: "Stamps so affixed are to be immediately cancelled in the office in which the letter or packet may be deposited, with an instrument to be furnished to certain of the post offices for that prpose. In post office not so furnished, the stamps must be cancelled by making a cross X on each with a pen ..."

Well, someone must not have paid attention. Very commonly the townmark -- or ironically the now obsolete rate stamps -- were used to cancel the stamps. Apparently, postmasters did not want to touch the letter twice, first applying the town mark and in a second step cancelling the stamp.

However, the days of defiance were numbered. In a new regulation of July 23, 1860 the POD was getting serious and demanded: "Postmasters are prohibited from using the marking or rating stamp to cancel the postage stamps, it being found very imperfect; and a distinct canceller must be used."

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The above cover was postmarked Sep. 17, 1860, a few months after the effective date of the new regulation, which threatened postmaster with removal from office for violating proper cancelling etiquette. So, here we see the advent of the fancy cancel.

To sum it up, prior to postage stamps, there was no need to cancel anything. Proper offical terminology, such as marking and rating stamp or canceller, as used for instance in the actual postal regulations cited above, is probably historically most accurate and proper for postal history exhibits. I understand that the word cancel has come to mean all postmarks, whether they cancel anything or not. I believe this is less precice and useful. However, I have to admit that if not for changes in the meaning of words, we all would be collecting labels yet. Most likely, at the time someone similarily ranted about such abuse of language.

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dani20

14 Feb 2012
05:37:24am

re: Cancels, Postmark Theme Old New How Why.

Dear Rhinelander,
Most excellent stuff. MIght you and KG5 consider co-authoring a dynamite article on this topic for our archives?
Dan C.

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KG5

14 Feb 2012
09:49:19pm

re: Cancels, Postmark Theme Old New How Why.

Hi Dan.:)

David's post is extremely good and so is everyone's posting on this thread and any other thread for that matter. The best part about a discussion thread, is all the postings are equally as good as each other because it makes up the whole of the groups discussion on any given topic.
To make a good discussion thread all people need to feel that no matter how great or small the posting is, it all adds up to the whole topic. It is such a great way to learn about stamping.

As for articles this is a new concept to me and I will learn what is really meant by doing an article I am sure. I'm all for information that helps us to learn, that is free of cost.

I love discussion threads because all people can join in on any given topic. I am not the best writer in the world, that is for sure but I will not let it stop me from having a go at trying to post on a topic.

Always Happy Stamping. John

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rtvstamps

15 Feb 2012
12:05:08am

Auctions - Approvals

re: Cancels, Postmark Theme Old New How Why.

Hello friend Tim!

Thanks a lot for your kind comments about mi Penguin page. Yes, the Hutt stamps are very interesting.

Regards!
Rodolfo

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dani20

15 Feb 2012
01:09:24pm

re: Cancels, Postmark Theme Old New How Why.

Hey John,
Our Articles Master Ralph is a good place to start to getting into the swing of things-and if I can be of any help consider it done. You are the Chief, and I am the Indian to back your play however I might.

Many of our members are quite skilled in article wring, just take a look at the articles currently on file. Each and every one of the writers is most generous with advice/time/tips so feel free to tap into any and all.

Looking forward,
Dan C.

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Rhinelander

Support the Hobby -- Join the American Philatelic Society
17 Feb 2012
06:11:47pm

re: Cancels, Postmark Theme Old New How Why.

Hi Dan,

I don't think I would want to get into article writing at this time. Like John (KGV), I enjoy the potentially interactive format of the discussion board better than articles.

Arno

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Bobstamp

17 Feb 2012
07:08:13pm

re: Cancels, Postmark Theme Old New How Why.

Arno,

You (and we) can have the best of both worlds. What you could do is write a short article for Stamporama, and then post information about it in the discussion board. Ask people to read it, ask questions, make comments, proffer roses or throw brickbats, and there's your discussion as well.

Bob

P.S. I talk big, but I haven't written a Stamporama article for ages. OK, it's on my list now...but you don't know how long my list is! :-)

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KG5

26 Feb 2012
08:16:30pm

re: Cancels, Postmark Theme Old New How Why.

WW11 Field Post Office 170, Cover, Australia Military, Many Postmarks.

GEO.ADAMS is George Adams who owned Tattersalls Lottery base in Tasmania.
I believe this address is a safe address for the true receiver of the letter? The number 051046 is Tattersalls reg No, on receiving the letter?
Not many covers came registered or were read by censor before sealing the envelope. This makes me think it is an Officer's letter.
I can find 2 covers online with 2 stamps to 6d. The 3d extra cost was for reg post?

Some of the Field Post Offices (FPO) is in the Netherlands West Indies and P&G area?
It has been very hard for me to find info but their is a book written by "Proud" that has the answers I believe. I do not have one. All the references are to auctions.


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KG5

26 Feb 2012
08:34:54pm

re: Cancels, Postmark Theme Old New How Why.

A different Military mailing place name not a (FPO) Field Post Office.

Aust Army Post Office 216.

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FPO 192 and a typed address.

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KG5

26 Feb 2012
08:41:12pm

re: Cancels, Postmark Theme Old New How Why.

FPO 174 Opened by censor? But no official censor cancel!

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KG5

28 Mar 2012
06:44:05pm

re: Cancels, Postmark Theme Old New How Why.

A nice clear cancel. I have never seen one as good as this one before.
It sold for a good price as well.

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04 Apr 2012
09:45:31am

re: Cancels, Postmark Theme Old New How Why.

"FPO 174 Opened by censor? But no official censor cancel!"



I don't think this was opened by censor. The signed tape (selvedge used as tape) on the flap is a frequently seen "seal" for registered mail. The cover is dated Oct 24, 1945. The war was over. I don't know he exact date, but I suspect that censorship on domestic (including from FPO) mail ceased some time before that.

Roy


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