Discussion - Member to Member Sales - Research Center
Discussion - Member to Member Sales - Research Center
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NICE cover. This is from Bohemia, which the Germans carved out of Czechoslovakia (then, later, created Slovakia). Bohemia included part of what is sometimes referred to as the Sudetenland, peopled by German speaking folks, some of whom had German sympathies.
I can't read a year date, but it was mailed November 19. The year might be 1938-1941. 1938 is the year the Germans occupy Bohemia, with the Allies' blessing. Late 1941 is when America goes to war with Germany, and, therefore, its occupied territories as well.
I don't see evidence of German or Czech censor markings, only US civilian censor markings.
You can find Bohemia under Czechoslovakia in Scott. They will have information on the stamps, but not the cover.
what's on the back?
David
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It was opened by both German and US censors. Looks like the cover has lost two stamps over the years.
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Micheal's right; hadn't seen that. it has lost some stamps. But the back is quite interesting. This German censor tape and censor cancels tying tape to cover. Nice to see three different censor marks (2 US and 1 German). Note that the sender's address is listed as "Protectorate...Germany"
as to price, that's a funny thing for covers. you can never tell. this has lots going for it, and yet it's not whole.
Put it in the auction and see. There's a good number of cover collectors, and quite a few of them are interested in military postal history and history of the Third Reich.
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The censor closing strip "Opened by Examiner' is British, not American. 99% of US censor closing labels read "examined by", not "opened by." The "PC90" designation is another tell-tale sign for British origin. My best guess is transit censorship at some British Caribbean island.
The date of the cancellation is most likely 19.XI.41-18 (=6pm). Unfortunately the "41" is pretty much a guessing job. German censorship was in Berlin (letter "b" in censor stamp and closing strip.) The Berlin office took over all censorship of mail to North and South America from the Frankfurt office on November 19, 1941. Prior to that date, Berlin was in charge of mail to the USA via Siberia-Japan and the Frankfurt office (letter 'e') covered all other routes. As all postal communication between Germany and the US ceased December 11, 1941, the cover is most likely postmarked 1941.
The cover is in pretty rough shape. The German censor markings are quite common, but a specialist may add value to the fact that the Berlin office did not cover this route for long. The British censor marking must be assessed by some other specialist. It can be a hidden gem, or -- more likely -- is common as well. It is difficult to put $$ values on covers as all cover collectors will value different aspects more or less highly. Missing stamps, for instance, make it pretty much a worthless cover for a Czechoslovakia "rates & routes" collector. Then, there are other collectors who go nuts about anything with a swastika. If you check on ebay, you will see that comparable 1940/1941 censored covers to the USA often sell for around $3-6. These are usually in much better shape, though, but on the other hand, they tend to be German and not B&M.
In any event, an interesting discussion piece. Thank you for showing it.
(Message edited by rhinelander on February 07, 2011)
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Arno, can you explain how the British would have taken possession of this? I don't see any transit markings, so I don't know on whose ships it would have crossed the Atlantic, but they wouldn't have been British or commonwealth vessels carrying Axis mail, would they?
I'll have to check my Air Mail book and see, but I'd be delighted to hear your explanation.
and thanks for the lesson in British vs US censor markings. Missed your comments, Arno.
David
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Well, it is an air letter, so probably no ships were involved here. Air mail routes were much less straight forward back then, affected by technical limitations and complicated treaties specifying who was allowed to carry what mail (and the war did not make it any easier). There were no transatlantic direct flights. Transatlantic mail was "clipper mail" travelling in multiple stages. So this cover may have gone to Portugal, then to Brazil and then up north. Or from Rome to Senegal and over. Or from the Acores straight to Bermuda. A lot of mail went through Bermuda or Trinidad and the British censored any piece of mail they could get their hands on in transit. Some later censor labels can be more easily attributed to the specific island as certain prefixes 'D.', 'D.I.,' 'I.C.' etc. to the censor number were introduced which specialists can identify. I have read something about it but don't recall where. I do have a couple of such covers, but can't say exactly what they are. It really is only a tangent to my collecting interests. Specialized literature exists on the subject and maybe the censor number can be attributed to a specific location. In any event, transit censorship was the regular treatment of such letter and, while it adds to the interest, it may not add much to the value.
I am curious if your air mail book has additinal information. I only have the FAM volume of the American Air Mail catalog and since it is lacking an index, it is difficult to work with. I very much doubt that it travelled by an American carrier.
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so you surmise a Portuguese clipper? I'll try to remember to get my airmail book tonight.
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I believe this is a triple-censored cover: The violet PASSED BY CENSOR is likely US in origin.
Bruce
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I am cutting and pasting below some excerpt from this website:
http://www.wfscstamps.org/ATFP/Archive/wfsc_atfp_articles_2002.shtml
It is somewhat along the lines of what I was suggesting, albeit without being a real expert on the subject. I have no idea as to the country of domicile of the air carrier. I was just trying to say that there was certainly no direct flight Berlin - New York at the time. Rather some German airline may have taken the letter to Rome, where a Brazilian carrier may have picked it up, and from Sao Paulo it may have been carried by one of the US FAM routes -- yet one that was going through some British Carribean Island. There are many possibilities and specialized literature exists how mail was routed during the war time. Bruce: I have some books on U.S. censorship and can check the origin of the "Passed By Censor" straight line marking. Generally speaking, there was no U.S. civil postal censorship until mid-December 1941 and it would have to be a very early marking. But yes. Maybe it is American.
From above website:
Transit mail refers to mail removed from the trans-Atlantic clippers, examined by censors in Bermuda, and placed back aboard the clippers for the completion of the journey. Because of Bermuda's strategic location, this effort was important to the British and American intelligence gathering effort. At the peak of the war, over 2,000 women, called censorettes, were employed to examine this transit mail in Bermuda.
Westbound mail from Europe is much more common than eastbound mail. Mail posted in Switzerland and Portugal (Figures 4 and 5) is more common than mail from other continental countries, though there are censored covers from every European country, including Germany. Again, extensive study has been made of every aspect of the censoring process - the various censor markings, censor numbers, style of resealing tapes, etc.
Suffice it to say here, if you have mail with the handwritten or printed initials "I.C." on the censor-resealing label, it was examined by the censoring authorities in Bermuda (Figure 4). The -I.C." designation was used only in Bermuda, with "1.E." used in Trinidad and "I.D." used in Jamaica.
The period between late 1939 and mid-1941, however, is marked by much confusion over whether or not covers were examined in Bermuda because the censorship office had not yet standardized the resealing labels with unique identifying codes. During that period, resealing labels used in Bermuda carried various designations (PC 22, PC 102 [Figure 5], B.C. 1), none of which were unique to Bermuda. However, since Bermuda censors examined 90 percent of the mail between Europe and North America, one is on the right trail to think that covers from Europe to the U.S.A. carrying any of these label markings transited through Bermuda. Trinidad handled most of the mail between Europe and South America.
Please re-read para. 1 above: 2,000 "censorettes" -- transit censorship was not a small scale operation. it is not an unusal item. It is just one of the 95% of areas of philately where I am hitting the ceiling now. Surmising rather than knowing. Sorry.
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Alright, I checked the catalog and there exist a few similar looking "Passed By Censor" straightline markings originating from the New Orleans censor station. However, the earliest known uses of such markings date April 1942. It also is not the exact typ and the ink color does not match. This stuff has been fairly well researched, so I am reluctant to jump to the conclusion of an unknown marking. Especially as November 1941 does not fit well into the timeline of censorship in the US.
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I thoroughly enjoy these types of discussions and information.
One of the US Caribbean Lend Lease Bases might indeed be the origin for the violet PASSED BY CENSOR and the date of the cover above would fit into the range of nonstandard censorship markings.
According to Helbock's "Passed By Censor" the earliest known usage of censor markings for Bermuda as of 2005 was April 18, 1941 well before the date of the Bohemia Moravia cover. Some of the other islands show early usage as well.
There are still discoveries to be made out there for types which of course makes censorship collecting exciting for two reasons: The pure history and most of these covers are available for very reasonable prices out there in the general stamp show marketplace.
The example above is very close to other markings used.
Bruce
On an unrelated note: Arno, I have a folder that is growing steadily, filled with TBO's -- thanks to your mention of that book awhile back!
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Some of the replies reminded me of an article I recently read I think in the American Philatelist??? Bermuda was a staging area for mail coming from and to the US during WWII. So, it is possible that this could have passed through Bermuda on its way to the US. I wish I could remember more from the article.
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PS: Book mentioned catalogs military and civilian contractor censoring.
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Bruce: I am glad you are enjoying these cancels (as I do). Did you catch that Richard just posted one in an unrelated thread? I just pointed it out. Maybe the top one of his two cards is the better card after all (as far as collecting interest goes).
With respect to the April 1941 beginning date of U.S.censorship in the Bermudas, which I do not question, we must be cautious not to confuse civil and military censorship. Military postal censorship was long around before civil postal censorship was instituted in the aftermath of Pearl Harbor. Still, the markings on the cover pose some kind of mystery.
(Message edited by rhinelander on February 08, 2011)
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Yes, I agree. I'm wondering if perhaps the British censor office might have passed it along to the US censors? So far, I've never seen a British censor mark like the violet one above, only US similar ones. l like a good mystery.
I'll have to check the other thread for the TOB.
Thanks.
Bruce
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05:22:56pm
I found this while I was going through some stuff, any ideas????
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re: On British WWII transit censorship in the Carribean Isles
NICE cover. This is from Bohemia, which the Germans carved out of Czechoslovakia (then, later, created Slovakia). Bohemia included part of what is sometimes referred to as the Sudetenland, peopled by German speaking folks, some of whom had German sympathies.
I can't read a year date, but it was mailed November 19. The year might be 1938-1941. 1938 is the year the Germans occupy Bohemia, with the Allies' blessing. Late 1941 is when America goes to war with Germany, and, therefore, its occupied territories as well.
I don't see evidence of German or Czech censor markings, only US civilian censor markings.
You can find Bohemia under Czechoslovakia in Scott. They will have information on the stamps, but not the cover.
what's on the back?
David
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09:22:23pm
re: On British WWII transit censorship in the Carribean Isles
It was opened by both German and US censors. Looks like the cover has lost two stamps over the years.
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re: On British WWII transit censorship in the Carribean Isles
Micheal's right; hadn't seen that. it has lost some stamps. But the back is quite interesting. This German censor tape and censor cancels tying tape to cover. Nice to see three different censor marks (2 US and 1 German). Note that the sender's address is listed as "Protectorate...Germany"
as to price, that's a funny thing for covers. you can never tell. this has lots going for it, and yet it's not whole.
Put it in the auction and see. There's a good number of cover collectors, and quite a few of them are interested in military postal history and history of the Third Reich.
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re: On British WWII transit censorship in the Carribean Isles
The censor closing strip "Opened by Examiner' is British, not American. 99% of US censor closing labels read "examined by", not "opened by." The "PC90" designation is another tell-tale sign for British origin. My best guess is transit censorship at some British Caribbean island.
The date of the cancellation is most likely 19.XI.41-18 (=6pm). Unfortunately the "41" is pretty much a guessing job. German censorship was in Berlin (letter "b" in censor stamp and closing strip.) The Berlin office took over all censorship of mail to North and South America from the Frankfurt office on November 19, 1941. Prior to that date, Berlin was in charge of mail to the USA via Siberia-Japan and the Frankfurt office (letter 'e') covered all other routes. As all postal communication between Germany and the US ceased December 11, 1941, the cover is most likely postmarked 1941.
The cover is in pretty rough shape. The German censor markings are quite common, but a specialist may add value to the fact that the Berlin office did not cover this route for long. The British censor marking must be assessed by some other specialist. It can be a hidden gem, or -- more likely -- is common as well. It is difficult to put $$ values on covers as all cover collectors will value different aspects more or less highly. Missing stamps, for instance, make it pretty much a worthless cover for a Czechoslovakia "rates & routes" collector. Then, there are other collectors who go nuts about anything with a swastika. If you check on ebay, you will see that comparable 1940/1941 censored covers to the USA often sell for around $3-6. These are usually in much better shape, though, but on the other hand, they tend to be German and not B&M.
In any event, an interesting discussion piece. Thank you for showing it.
(Message edited by rhinelander on February 07, 2011)
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re: On British WWII transit censorship in the Carribean Isles
Arno, can you explain how the British would have taken possession of this? I don't see any transit markings, so I don't know on whose ships it would have crossed the Atlantic, but they wouldn't have been British or commonwealth vessels carrying Axis mail, would they?
I'll have to check my Air Mail book and see, but I'd be delighted to hear your explanation.
and thanks for the lesson in British vs US censor markings. Missed your comments, Arno.
David
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re: On British WWII transit censorship in the Carribean Isles
Well, it is an air letter, so probably no ships were involved here. Air mail routes were much less straight forward back then, affected by technical limitations and complicated treaties specifying who was allowed to carry what mail (and the war did not make it any easier). There were no transatlantic direct flights. Transatlantic mail was "clipper mail" travelling in multiple stages. So this cover may have gone to Portugal, then to Brazil and then up north. Or from Rome to Senegal and over. Or from the Acores straight to Bermuda. A lot of mail went through Bermuda or Trinidad and the British censored any piece of mail they could get their hands on in transit. Some later censor labels can be more easily attributed to the specific island as certain prefixes 'D.', 'D.I.,' 'I.C.' etc. to the censor number were introduced which specialists can identify. I have read something about it but don't recall where. I do have a couple of such covers, but can't say exactly what they are. It really is only a tangent to my collecting interests. Specialized literature exists on the subject and maybe the censor number can be attributed to a specific location. In any event, transit censorship was the regular treatment of such letter and, while it adds to the interest, it may not add much to the value.
I am curious if your air mail book has additinal information. I only have the FAM volume of the American Air Mail catalog and since it is lacking an index, it is difficult to work with. I very much doubt that it travelled by an American carrier.
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re: On British WWII transit censorship in the Carribean Isles
so you surmise a Portuguese clipper? I'll try to remember to get my airmail book tonight.
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11:48:25am
re: On British WWII transit censorship in the Carribean Isles
I believe this is a triple-censored cover: The violet PASSED BY CENSOR is likely US in origin.
Bruce
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re: On British WWII transit censorship in the Carribean Isles
I am cutting and pasting below some excerpt from this website:
http://www.wfscstamps.org/ATFP/Archive/wfsc_atfp_articles_2002.shtml
It is somewhat along the lines of what I was suggesting, albeit without being a real expert on the subject. I have no idea as to the country of domicile of the air carrier. I was just trying to say that there was certainly no direct flight Berlin - New York at the time. Rather some German airline may have taken the letter to Rome, where a Brazilian carrier may have picked it up, and from Sao Paulo it may have been carried by one of the US FAM routes -- yet one that was going through some British Carribean Island. There are many possibilities and specialized literature exists how mail was routed during the war time. Bruce: I have some books on U.S. censorship and can check the origin of the "Passed By Censor" straight line marking. Generally speaking, there was no U.S. civil postal censorship until mid-December 1941 and it would have to be a very early marking. But yes. Maybe it is American.
From above website:
Transit mail refers to mail removed from the trans-Atlantic clippers, examined by censors in Bermuda, and placed back aboard the clippers for the completion of the journey. Because of Bermuda's strategic location, this effort was important to the British and American intelligence gathering effort. At the peak of the war, over 2,000 women, called censorettes, were employed to examine this transit mail in Bermuda.
Westbound mail from Europe is much more common than eastbound mail. Mail posted in Switzerland and Portugal (Figures 4 and 5) is more common than mail from other continental countries, though there are censored covers from every European country, including Germany. Again, extensive study has been made of every aspect of the censoring process - the various censor markings, censor numbers, style of resealing tapes, etc.
Suffice it to say here, if you have mail with the handwritten or printed initials "I.C." on the censor-resealing label, it was examined by the censoring authorities in Bermuda (Figure 4). The -I.C." designation was used only in Bermuda, with "1.E." used in Trinidad and "I.D." used in Jamaica.
The period between late 1939 and mid-1941, however, is marked by much confusion over whether or not covers were examined in Bermuda because the censorship office had not yet standardized the resealing labels with unique identifying codes. During that period, resealing labels used in Bermuda carried various designations (PC 22, PC 102 [Figure 5], B.C. 1), none of which were unique to Bermuda. However, since Bermuda censors examined 90 percent of the mail between Europe and North America, one is on the right trail to think that covers from Europe to the U.S.A. carrying any of these label markings transited through Bermuda. Trinidad handled most of the mail between Europe and South America.
Please re-read para. 1 above: 2,000 "censorettes" -- transit censorship was not a small scale operation. it is not an unusal item. It is just one of the 95% of areas of philately where I am hitting the ceiling now. Surmising rather than knowing. Sorry.
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re: On British WWII transit censorship in the Carribean Isles
Alright, I checked the catalog and there exist a few similar looking "Passed By Censor" straightline markings originating from the New Orleans censor station. However, the earliest known uses of such markings date April 1942. It also is not the exact typ and the ink color does not match. This stuff has been fairly well researched, so I am reluctant to jump to the conclusion of an unknown marking. Especially as November 1941 does not fit well into the timeline of censorship in the US.
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08:28:56pm
re: On British WWII transit censorship in the Carribean Isles
I thoroughly enjoy these types of discussions and information.
One of the US Caribbean Lend Lease Bases might indeed be the origin for the violet PASSED BY CENSOR and the date of the cover above would fit into the range of nonstandard censorship markings.
According to Helbock's "Passed By Censor" the earliest known usage of censor markings for Bermuda as of 2005 was April 18, 1941 well before the date of the Bohemia Moravia cover. Some of the other islands show early usage as well.
There are still discoveries to be made out there for types which of course makes censorship collecting exciting for two reasons: The pure history and most of these covers are available for very reasonable prices out there in the general stamp show marketplace.
The example above is very close to other markings used.
Bruce
On an unrelated note: Arno, I have a folder that is growing steadily, filled with TBO's -- thanks to your mention of that book awhile back!
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08:39:28pm
re: On British WWII transit censorship in the Carribean Isles
Some of the replies reminded me of an article I recently read I think in the American Philatelist??? Bermuda was a staging area for mail coming from and to the US during WWII. So, it is possible that this could have passed through Bermuda on its way to the US. I wish I could remember more from the article.
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08:40:49pm
re: On British WWII transit censorship in the Carribean Isles
PS: Book mentioned catalogs military and civilian contractor censoring.
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re: On British WWII transit censorship in the Carribean Isles
Bruce: I am glad you are enjoying these cancels (as I do). Did you catch that Richard just posted one in an unrelated thread? I just pointed it out. Maybe the top one of his two cards is the better card after all (as far as collecting interest goes).
With respect to the April 1941 beginning date of U.S.censorship in the Bermudas, which I do not question, we must be cautious not to confuse civil and military censorship. Military postal censorship was long around before civil postal censorship was instituted in the aftermath of Pearl Harbor. Still, the markings on the cover pose some kind of mystery.
(Message edited by rhinelander on February 08, 2011)
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09:48:49pm
re: On British WWII transit censorship in the Carribean Isles
Yes, I agree. I'm wondering if perhaps the British censor office might have passed it along to the US censors? So far, I've never seen a British censor mark like the violet one above, only US similar ones. l like a good mystery.
I'll have to check the other thread for the TOB.
Thanks.
Bruce
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