Discussion - Member to Member Sales - Research Center
Discussion - Member to Member Sales - Research Center
not 2. what a ripoff. BTW: Bob: It's Stampaholic,
not Stampoholic. Nice pic, nice stamps, even if they did edit out flags. can't have a Confederate flag anywhere can we?
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I have to agree that the "Go Green" sheet is a bunch of sheet as well. The designs or just plain childish looking. Good thing they are self adhesive as I’d hate to be licking the backs of recycled toilet paper!!! I buy a sheet for the collection though.
I’ve always been a fan of the informational souvenir sheets. The Civil War sheet is rather cool for someone who likes history and pictures. If you mount the sheet in a book and don’t use those clear page holders, I can certainly see how displaying the sheet would be a pain in the butt.
I do like the new Ronald Reagan stamp. Although I don’t associate myself with any political party, I always like this guy and his stamp is very well done.
Pat
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Just out of curiosity I looked for any Confedrate flags on US stamps. There are none that I could see. I found 3 that have the "stars & bars" on them. The 2 state flags of the '76 flag set: Georgia & Mississippi. And Mississipi on the current flag set. Apparently Georgia had to change their flag because of it.
seriously, though, how come there's not a flag in that picture of the troops. Are they Union troops or Confederate troops?
BTW: anyone that's ever been in a gov't building
knows that many of the rooms were painted baby poop green. They couldn't sell it to anyone else.
I heard they were going to paint the White House--
ah, forget it. I'm in enough trouble, already.
Actually, this is a spill over from Randy's "Abhor the PO" posting.
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09:18:14am
I don't usually get political and I'm not a Civil War expert but I'm actually a bit confused as to why the USPS issued stamps honoring Confederate leaders in the Civil War issue back in the 1990's. Perhaps this is an over-simplification but weren't these people enemies of the United States? I mean we had a war and many people died because of it. Do we honor generals of Japan, Germany, North Korea, North Viet Nam or Al Qaeda? People didn't want stamps honoring Frida Kahlo or W.E.B. DuBois because they had communist leanings but nobody died because of it.
Bob
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thanks to my last copy of Linn's I found out that the pic is of a Union regiment near Falls Church ,VA. Still, there should be a flag bearer there.
BobP, I was lookinng at that sheet myself, trying to find a Confederate Flag. i couldn't figure out why they issued that sheet at that time, myself.
As to being enemies, It was just one huge mean-
as*ed family feud. Slavery was wrong. Money &
power. Not much different, today. I don't think.
(I'm trying my best to keep politics out of this
it's difficult).
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I found "North & South" to be an excellent portayal of the times myself. Although fictional, it seemed to capture the realities of the era.
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Are human beings basically psychotic? Or perhaps we suffer from national multiple personalities. There certainly is no consistency in the way we approach history, or indeed in the way we explain it. Villains are either damned or elevated to the status of gods, and sometimes damned and made godlike.
I have lately been researching the Pershing Punitive Expediation against Pancho Villa in 1916. Villa had attacked a U.S. Army outpost in Columbus, NM, killing 10 civilians and 8 soldiers and wounding 2 civilians and 6 soldiers, for a total of 18 killed and 8 wounded. The raiders also burned the town, took many horses and mules and seized available machine guns, ammunition and merchandise, before they returned to Mexico, and thus earned the understandable ire of Americans, who promptly sent virtually the entire U.S. Army after Villa. The army was supported by all state National Guard units, including my paternal grandfather's New York National Guard unit, which were federalized and thus became part of the U.S. Army. The Guardsmen were apparently never paid.
Villa was a cutthroat hoodlum by any standard. Despite a history of rape and murder, and genocidal attacks against Chinese-Mexicans, he is honored in Mexico today as a "founding father" of modern Mexico (not much to be proud of there!); Mexico has issued at least one stamp in his honor, and he himself caused the issuance of what are called "Villa" overprints on contemporaneous Mexican stamps.
The crowing touch to the story of Villa's rise to godlike stature is the existence of a state park at Columbus, New Mexico. It's called "Pancho Villa State Park". Did I say that we humans are psychotic?
Bob I.
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interesting conversation.
first, for the Bull Run stamp, there's one recognizable federal flag and another that is probably a regimental flag. Look on the top of the ridge, and on the left there's a federal flag, on the right a blue one that i'm guessing is a regimental, but might be a state, flag. There are no confederate flags here because this is behind the battery firing line.
For the Sumter stamp, one can see the federal flag (it's unrecognizable as such); notice the "burl" in the middle of the pole, where the staff has been cobbled back together after suffering a hit that brought the flag down.
In both instances, these are federal perspectives; and they aren't pretty. Sumter will soon surrender. And the federals will be in flight soon in Manassass. One won't see any consequential federal victories in the east for another two and a half years, and the war is generally seen from an eastern vantage point (Army of Northern Virginia against the Armies of the James, Rhappahonock, and Potomac).
So the only federal flags waiving are those of soon-to-be defeated troops.
Not sure what the fuss over the confederate flag is (there were 3 major versions, radically different from one another, not counting variations from the changing number of stars nor the various confederate battle flags). The 1995 set of stamps was even-handed to the max; i'm guessing this will be the same.
I love the Civil War souvenir sheet. I've already used one as part of the franking of large priority mail box. works great. I Don't mind the double-sided thingy. Of course, I don't collect mint, and don't worry about diplaying them (I have enough troubles with the large boxes and wrappers I've accumulated).
David
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07:25:12pm
"People who are anxious to bring on war don't know what they are bargaining for; they don't see all the horrors that must accompany such an event."
Jackson's quote should be tattooed on the foreheads of every chicken hawk who calls for another military adventure that he(or she) will neither participate in nor send his children off to fight in.
Just sticking a yellow plastic ribbon on your auto's bumper is not supporting the troops.
End of rant
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and that's at least one reason why Jackson, Lee, Johnston, Armistead, Longstreed, Penders, and others in grey should be honored as fervently as their blue counterparts; they UNDERSTOOD war; did nothing to bring it on; but did not shirk what they saw as their responsibility to see it through.
David
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David! Thanks for pointing the flags out. My eyesight ain't what it used to be. Can see the ones on the stamps. can't see 'em on the pic.
BTW: bumper sticker saying they support the troops a da*n sight better than the treatment
that Vietnam vets got from those pot-smoking,
hippy jackaxes.
Sorry, Charlie, I lost my tuna.
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I need to mention that this particular Vietnam vet was treated very well. Admittedly, I was one of the early veterans and casualties. When I was recovering from my gunshot wound at Balboa Naval Hospital in San Diego, I had visits with Miss San Diego and her "court," as well as actor Jackie Cooper of TV's "Hennesey". I have photos of both events.
On my first leave home, to Silver City, New Mexico, the Veterans of Foreign Wars and the Chamber of Commerce invited me to speak to them about my experiences and show slides that I took in South Vietnam. They weren't particularly pleased to learn what I had to tell them, which was that the U.S. didn't have a chance to win the war, and had no business being there in a military capacity that was not matched by an equal effort to make life better for ordinary Vietnamese. If you read the Pentagon Papers, you'll see that I was a Johnny Come Lately in that assessment.
The editor of the Silver City {Daily Press} interviewed me extensively and wrote a long story.
I agree wholeheartedly with Cdj1122's comment about "chicken hawks". For years after Vietnam, I would have willingly spit on Lyndon Johnson's grave for what he did to us in Vietnam. On the day I was shot, I remember wishing that both he and Ho Chi Minh would have gone a few rounds instead of sending in their troops. They might have developed a different opinion of war. My opinion has changed since then, as a result of a lot of reading. Johnson (who did do a lot for the civil rights movement), was just one of a long line of scoundrels in the Oval Office, starting with Truman and ending with Nixon, who created the American War, as Vietnamese call it, and as a result have the blood of 58,000 Americans and millions of Vietnamese on their hands, not to mention the blood of Australians, New Zealanders, Koreans, and Filipinos and Thais.
For several years now I have been collecting covers, stamps, postcards, and ephemera related to the war. My most recent acquisition, joining my Rogue's Gallery, is this plate block:
Bob
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Carl, I believe that bumper stickers is pretty close to the extent of American support for the war effort right now.
I still read as much about it as I can (finished My War: killing time in Iraq) about these wars. There's less and less in the papers (the Times continues coverage, but most of the hawkish papers have long ago lost interest) and little of it gives much hope for any kind of solution that would favor either US interests (besides corporate interests like Blackwater, KBR, etc) or the indigenous populations.
I protested the war in which Bob was shot and always wonder what I would have done if my number, in 1971, hadn't been 351; and I protested these wars. I wrote senators and my congressman. I urged our current secretary of state, then-senator, to vote against any action that would have given the president any kind of free hand. I wish her vote had mirrored her eloquent arguments against a potential war.
Thinking these wars (VN, I, and A) folly does not mean I am against those who are charged with fighting it. To the absolute contrary. I tried, for instance, to maintain contact with some of the Marines and the corpsman from 2/8 Marines that CJ Chivers followed. Marine spokesmen declined to give me their FPOs, citing national security. And, as noted before, I am well aware that fate (or the drop of a ball) is all that stood between me and the jungles of VN and consequently, I have great emphathy for those who served and who serve now. And, from what I can tell, hippie folks like me supported the troops far better than any of the double-talking politicians who were more intersted in saving their face than our soldiers' asses.
I am still waiting for an attainable goal to be put forth to explain our continued presence in these mostly forgotten, ongoing nightmares. All the previous ones were not much more than delusions or lies.
David
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David,the majority of the people I know support our troops as much as possible. I'm not sure as to
what else a person can do. I donate to veterans organizations when I can and back programs to help our soldiers. BTW: I guess I'm about a year older than you my # was 287. If I remember right I ended up being about maybe 10 #'s from being called up. What really P's me off are these anti-war protestors that stood on the street corners for years, but now they aren't doing squat.
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I'm afraid Liz ain't gonna be happy. I'm not going to say anymore here. Maybe on off-topic.
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12:37:50am
For several years I have sent small "Care" packages to some member of the Army or Marine corps through the Any Soldier" site.
.
http://www.anysoldier.com/index.cfm
.
That is one way a person can support the troops.
And I have not forgotten the US Coast Guard Marine Unit that was stationed at the head of the Gulf near Basra eiher.
I treasure the simple cards and letters I have received from the troopers, usually after they are safely home, and I suspect anyone who participates will find that their efforts are appreciated.
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2 stamps on 1 side, 10 stamps on the other. gotta buy 2 to get it displayed well. Now, I'm even more PO'ed, I thought it was 12 different stamps,
not 2. what a ripoff. BTW: Bob: It's Stampaholic,
not Stampoholic. Nice pic, nice stamps, even if they did edit out flags. can't have a Confederate flag anywhere can we?
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re: Civil War SS and discussion of military adventures
I have to agree that the "Go Green" sheet is a bunch of sheet as well. The designs or just plain childish looking. Good thing they are self adhesive as I’d hate to be licking the backs of recycled toilet paper!!! I buy a sheet for the collection though.
I’ve always been a fan of the informational souvenir sheets. The Civil War sheet is rather cool for someone who likes history and pictures. If you mount the sheet in a book and don’t use those clear page holders, I can certainly see how displaying the sheet would be a pain in the butt.
I do like the new Ronald Reagan stamp. Although I don’t associate myself with any political party, I always like this guy and his stamp is very well done.
Pat
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re: Civil War SS and discussion of military adventures
Just out of curiosity I looked for any Confedrate flags on US stamps. There are none that I could see. I found 3 that have the "stars & bars" on them. The 2 state flags of the '76 flag set: Georgia & Mississippi. And Mississipi on the current flag set. Apparently Georgia had to change their flag because of it.
seriously, though, how come there's not a flag in that picture of the troops. Are they Union troops or Confederate troops?
BTW: anyone that's ever been in a gov't building
knows that many of the rooms were painted baby poop green. They couldn't sell it to anyone else.
I heard they were going to paint the White House--
ah, forget it. I'm in enough trouble, already.
Actually, this is a spill over from Randy's "Abhor the PO" posting.
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Immediate Past President - West Essex Philatelic Society www.wepsonline.org
26 Apr 2011
09:18:14am
re: Civil War SS and discussion of military adventures
I don't usually get political and I'm not a Civil War expert but I'm actually a bit confused as to why the USPS issued stamps honoring Confederate leaders in the Civil War issue back in the 1990's. Perhaps this is an over-simplification but weren't these people enemies of the United States? I mean we had a war and many people died because of it. Do we honor generals of Japan, Germany, North Korea, North Viet Nam or Al Qaeda? People didn't want stamps honoring Frida Kahlo or W.E.B. DuBois because they had communist leanings but nobody died because of it.
Bob
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re: Civil War SS and discussion of military adventures
thanks to my last copy of Linn's I found out that the pic is of a Union regiment near Falls Church ,VA. Still, there should be a flag bearer there.
BobP, I was lookinng at that sheet myself, trying to find a Confederate Flag. i couldn't figure out why they issued that sheet at that time, myself.
As to being enemies, It was just one huge mean-
as*ed family feud. Slavery was wrong. Money &
power. Not much different, today. I don't think.
(I'm trying my best to keep politics out of this
it's difficult).
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Auctions
re: Civil War SS and discussion of military adventures
I found "North & South" to be an excellent portayal of the times myself. Although fictional, it seemed to capture the realities of the era.
Login to Like
this post
re: Civil War SS and discussion of military adventures
Are human beings basically psychotic? Or perhaps we suffer from national multiple personalities. There certainly is no consistency in the way we approach history, or indeed in the way we explain it. Villains are either damned or elevated to the status of gods, and sometimes damned and made godlike.
I have lately been researching the Pershing Punitive Expediation against Pancho Villa in 1916. Villa had attacked a U.S. Army outpost in Columbus, NM, killing 10 civilians and 8 soldiers and wounding 2 civilians and 6 soldiers, for a total of 18 killed and 8 wounded. The raiders also burned the town, took many horses and mules and seized available machine guns, ammunition and merchandise, before they returned to Mexico, and thus earned the understandable ire of Americans, who promptly sent virtually the entire U.S. Army after Villa. The army was supported by all state National Guard units, including my paternal grandfather's New York National Guard unit, which were federalized and thus became part of the U.S. Army. The Guardsmen were apparently never paid.
Villa was a cutthroat hoodlum by any standard. Despite a history of rape and murder, and genocidal attacks against Chinese-Mexicans, he is honored in Mexico today as a "founding father" of modern Mexico (not much to be proud of there!); Mexico has issued at least one stamp in his honor, and he himself caused the issuance of what are called "Villa" overprints on contemporaneous Mexican stamps.
The crowing touch to the story of Villa's rise to godlike stature is the existence of a state park at Columbus, New Mexico. It's called "Pancho Villa State Park". Did I say that we humans are psychotic?
Bob I.
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re: Civil War SS and discussion of military adventures
interesting conversation.
first, for the Bull Run stamp, there's one recognizable federal flag and another that is probably a regimental flag. Look on the top of the ridge, and on the left there's a federal flag, on the right a blue one that i'm guessing is a regimental, but might be a state, flag. There are no confederate flags here because this is behind the battery firing line.
For the Sumter stamp, one can see the federal flag (it's unrecognizable as such); notice the "burl" in the middle of the pole, where the staff has been cobbled back together after suffering a hit that brought the flag down.
In both instances, these are federal perspectives; and they aren't pretty. Sumter will soon surrender. And the federals will be in flight soon in Manassass. One won't see any consequential federal victories in the east for another two and a half years, and the war is generally seen from an eastern vantage point (Army of Northern Virginia against the Armies of the James, Rhappahonock, and Potomac).
So the only federal flags waiving are those of soon-to-be defeated troops.
Not sure what the fuss over the confederate flag is (there were 3 major versions, radically different from one another, not counting variations from the changing number of stars nor the various confederate battle flags). The 1995 set of stamps was even-handed to the max; i'm guessing this will be the same.
I love the Civil War souvenir sheet. I've already used one as part of the franking of large priority mail box. works great. I Don't mind the double-sided thingy. Of course, I don't collect mint, and don't worry about diplaying them (I have enough troubles with the large boxes and wrappers I've accumulated).
David
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Silence in the face of adversity is the father of complicity and collusion, the first cousins of conspiracy..
26 Apr 2011
07:25:12pm
re: Civil War SS and discussion of military adventures
"People who are anxious to bring on war don't know what they are bargaining for; they don't see all the horrors that must accompany such an event."
Jackson's quote should be tattooed on the foreheads of every chicken hawk who calls for another military adventure that he(or she) will neither participate in nor send his children off to fight in.
Just sticking a yellow plastic ribbon on your auto's bumper is not supporting the troops.
End of rant
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re: Civil War SS and discussion of military adventures
and that's at least one reason why Jackson, Lee, Johnston, Armistead, Longstreed, Penders, and others in grey should be honored as fervently as their blue counterparts; they UNDERSTOOD war; did nothing to bring it on; but did not shirk what they saw as their responsibility to see it through.
David
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re: Civil War SS and discussion of military adventures
David! Thanks for pointing the flags out. My eyesight ain't what it used to be. Can see the ones on the stamps. can't see 'em on the pic.
BTW: bumper sticker saying they support the troops a da*n sight better than the treatment
that Vietnam vets got from those pot-smoking,
hippy jackaxes.
Sorry, Charlie, I lost my tuna.
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re: Civil War SS and discussion of military adventures
I need to mention that this particular Vietnam vet was treated very well. Admittedly, I was one of the early veterans and casualties. When I was recovering from my gunshot wound at Balboa Naval Hospital in San Diego, I had visits with Miss San Diego and her "court," as well as actor Jackie Cooper of TV's "Hennesey". I have photos of both events.
On my first leave home, to Silver City, New Mexico, the Veterans of Foreign Wars and the Chamber of Commerce invited me to speak to them about my experiences and show slides that I took in South Vietnam. They weren't particularly pleased to learn what I had to tell them, which was that the U.S. didn't have a chance to win the war, and had no business being there in a military capacity that was not matched by an equal effort to make life better for ordinary Vietnamese. If you read the Pentagon Papers, you'll see that I was a Johnny Come Lately in that assessment.
The editor of the Silver City {Daily Press} interviewed me extensively and wrote a long story.
I agree wholeheartedly with Cdj1122's comment about "chicken hawks". For years after Vietnam, I would have willingly spit on Lyndon Johnson's grave for what he did to us in Vietnam. On the day I was shot, I remember wishing that both he and Ho Chi Minh would have gone a few rounds instead of sending in their troops. They might have developed a different opinion of war. My opinion has changed since then, as a result of a lot of reading. Johnson (who did do a lot for the civil rights movement), was just one of a long line of scoundrels in the Oval Office, starting with Truman and ending with Nixon, who created the American War, as Vietnamese call it, and as a result have the blood of 58,000 Americans and millions of Vietnamese on their hands, not to mention the blood of Australians, New Zealanders, Koreans, and Filipinos and Thais.
For several years now I have been collecting covers, stamps, postcards, and ephemera related to the war. My most recent acquisition, joining my Rogue's Gallery, is this plate block:
Bob
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re: Civil War SS and discussion of military adventures
Carl, I believe that bumper stickers is pretty close to the extent of American support for the war effort right now.
I still read as much about it as I can (finished My War: killing time in Iraq) about these wars. There's less and less in the papers (the Times continues coverage, but most of the hawkish papers have long ago lost interest) and little of it gives much hope for any kind of solution that would favor either US interests (besides corporate interests like Blackwater, KBR, etc) or the indigenous populations.
I protested the war in which Bob was shot and always wonder what I would have done if my number, in 1971, hadn't been 351; and I protested these wars. I wrote senators and my congressman. I urged our current secretary of state, then-senator, to vote against any action that would have given the president any kind of free hand. I wish her vote had mirrored her eloquent arguments against a potential war.
Thinking these wars (VN, I, and A) folly does not mean I am against those who are charged with fighting it. To the absolute contrary. I tried, for instance, to maintain contact with some of the Marines and the corpsman from 2/8 Marines that CJ Chivers followed. Marine spokesmen declined to give me their FPOs, citing national security. And, as noted before, I am well aware that fate (or the drop of a ball) is all that stood between me and the jungles of VN and consequently, I have great emphathy for those who served and who serve now. And, from what I can tell, hippie folks like me supported the troops far better than any of the double-talking politicians who were more intersted in saving their face than our soldiers' asses.
I am still waiting for an attainable goal to be put forth to explain our continued presence in these mostly forgotten, ongoing nightmares. All the previous ones were not much more than delusions or lies.
David
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re: Civil War SS and discussion of military adventures
David,the majority of the people I know support our troops as much as possible. I'm not sure as to
what else a person can do. I donate to veterans organizations when I can and back programs to help our soldiers. BTW: I guess I'm about a year older than you my # was 287. If I remember right I ended up being about maybe 10 #'s from being called up. What really P's me off are these anti-war protestors that stood on the street corners for years, but now they aren't doing squat.
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re: Civil War SS and discussion of military adventures
I'm afraid Liz ain't gonna be happy. I'm not going to say anymore here. Maybe on off-topic.
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Silence in the face of adversity is the father of complicity and collusion, the first cousins of conspiracy..
30 Apr 2011
12:37:50am
re: Civil War SS and discussion of military adventures
For several years I have sent small "Care" packages to some member of the Army or Marine corps through the Any Soldier" site.
.
http://www.anysoldier.com/index.cfm
.
That is one way a person can support the troops.
And I have not forgotten the US Coast Guard Marine Unit that was stationed at the head of the Gulf near Basra eiher.
I treasure the simple cards and letters I have received from the troopers, usually after they are safely home, and I suspect anyone who participates will find that their efforts are appreciated.
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