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United States/Covers & Postmarks : Cancel Info?

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Musicman
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APS #213005
08 Mar 2010
09:59:48pm
Hi All,

What can our resident cancel expert(s) tell me about this cancel?

stamp

Any info appreciated!



Randy
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Dani20
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08 Mar 2010
11:03:26pm
re: Cancel Info?

I believe it's called a station machine cancel, but you probably knew that already! So-no help whatsoever. Pretty nice example though. possibly a type 1 stamp, but I can't be sure. My magnification blurs out the edge.
Dan

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Harley
09 Mar 2010
12:46:02am
re: Cancel Info?

Dan,
type IV OR V . Depending on frame line,solid or uneven.
yes ,station.
TOM

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Dani20
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09 Mar 2010
08:18:54am
re: Cancel Info?

Dear Tom,
I thought there were only 2 types, I or II
Where can I find the info on IV & V?
Dan

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Harley
09 Mar 2010
10:22:21am
re: Cancel Info?

Dan,
Oops!
my bad,,
Yes,type 1 stamp,with T V imprint.
Was refering to the imprint in the salvage,,could have been either type IV or V.
After further checking it can only be type V,,as listed in Scotts.It is only a partial,but still a collectable stamp variety,,for those who collect pns and salvage imprints..For a full imprint and/or plate number,one needs a strip of three or plate block of 6.
Hard to tell type of stamp,for the cancel goes right through the two identifying areas.
BTW,,the "r" is right entry.Discussed somewhere else on SOR disc. board.
Cant tell color on a computer screen,I'm guessing carmine.But there are other shades of higher value. Lake,carmine rose,and scarlet.
TOM
edited to correct-- the "r" stands for recieved.Found this out after reading archives of previous posts on subject. Mixed my letters.And also references to T and L letters,trailing/leading.((must remind myself to look before leaping--to conclusions)).

(Message edited by HARLEY on March 09, 2010)

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Dani20
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09 Mar 2010
10:40:56am
re: Cancel Info?

Dear Tom,
Personally I'd find any discussion about imprints in the salvage to be of interest. Not limited to this issue of course, but in general. Could you be persuaded to write something for us?
Dan

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Harley
09 Mar 2010
11:33:52am
re: Cancel Info?

Dan,
Nope!
Sorry.
Rather divy out info as requested or needed.
Last time I wrote anything It was critisized as so much opinionated crap by the "GODS THAT BE" of the philatelic community.
Fool me once,shame on you,fool me twice,shame on me.
TOM

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Dani20
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09 Mar 2010
12:07:25pm
re: Cancel Info?

Dear Tom,
Sounds like a lousy experience- I'm sorry you had to go through that. Clearly it didn't come from this site- that's not our style here. Often, when someone has something to share, we partner up to make it work. Some prefer to go it alone, others find the collaboration of value. If you'd like, I'd be happy to work with you to help polish up anything you'd care to share, and I can assure you that the focus is on the learning, not the finger pointing. Give it a think, and if you're game to try again we'll work together.

(For what it's worth, any time I get into hot water I always blame Perry,Tim,David first!!)

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Stampaholic
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09 Mar 2010
12:17:43pm

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re: Cancel Info?

Tom, know what you mean, I got that with my soaking method I just posted. On another stamp
forum site, they complained about the lighter fluid, they complained about the smell of the baby powder.yatta-ta-yatta-ta-yatta.
Nevertheless, I put it on here in hopes that someone will like it and use it. It might be the last time, though.

(Message edited by Stampaholic on March 09, 2010)

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" I have a burning love for stamps. Lord A'mighty ,feel my temperature risin'! "
Sponthetrona2
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Keep Postal systems alive, buy stamps and mail often
09 Mar 2010
12:31:22pm
re: Cancel Info?

Dan's at fault!!!!!! Actually I get "advised upon" quite often but I figure I'm only giving my commentary on a particular subject ... and it's not polite to point your finger at any personality in our club. There are no wrong questions or answers, just opinions. Luckily for this club we have some really smart and knowledgeable folks who answer the questions with amazing expertize
( except Dan, er, or as you know him that guy in New York ..... ha! ha! ). All kidding aside Dan has been a great mentor for me and I really appreciate all his advise. Perry

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Rhinelander
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Support the Hobby -- Join the American Philatelic Society
09 Mar 2010
08:02:16pm
re: Cancel Info?

Hi Randy,

You are showing a machine cancel imprinted by an International Postal Supply Co, Model F, machine. This model, the 'International Flier', was maybe the most famous cancelling machine of all times. It is an electric high speed machine. The US postal service put the first machines of this type into use in the 1890s and for decades it was the most reliable, fastest and best piece of equipment available to postal services worldwide (but also expensive). You can readily find mail postmarked from this machine up to the 1960s and beyond.

Because it was an expensive high speed machine, cancelling probably around 600 to 800 pieces of mail per minute, it was only employed in post offices of size where the mail volume demanded only the best equipment. Your cancel is from Waschington DC, Station G. The post office was located in the Union Building, G St., between 6th and 7th NW.

Because these cancels are from major cities and large post offices, it is one of the most common styles of machine postmarks that can be found on mail of that period. Most of the International machines began using a 7-wavy line rather than a 7-bar killer (of which the one with station name inserted is a subtype) beginning in the early 1900s. Another feature of these cancels is the 'service letter' about which I have written a while ago under the heading "Letters is Machine Cancels:

http://65.18.196.159/discus/messages/3/7884.html

The vast majority of cancels from these machine are quite neat. Smudged, misplaced cancels are not too common, making it a nice style of cancel to collect. Much less frustrating to collect than other manufacturers. Check the back of your envelope -- you may also find an International machine receipt postmark. The machine -- often with a special 'received' dial -- was also used in many towns for backstamping duty.

Thank you for showing it. I love postmarks.

Arno

(Message edited by rhinelander on March 09, 2010)

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Dani20
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09 Mar 2010
08:28:23pm
re: Cancel Info?

Dear Arno,
Thank you, thank you, thank you. Below is the note I just added to your original post:
(http://65.18.196.159/discus/messages/3/7884.html)
Dear All,
This was great! I missed it completely being out of town and didn't catch it when I got back in.
Beautifully done one and all.
Dan

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Musicman
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APS #213005
09 Mar 2010
08:57:43pm
re: Cancel Info?

Thanks everyone for your comments and input (even Tom - LOL; just kidding, Tom!).....and especially Arno. That was exactly what I was hoping for.
I thought this was a very nice cover, with this cancellation being so clear and the nice copy of the stamp as well.


Once again, SOR members come thru!

Thanks again!


Randy


P.S. To Dan -

Where ya been?!?
You're missin' stuff here!
;-)

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Dani20
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09 Mar 2010
09:08:15pm
re: Cancel Info?

Dear Randy,
My schedule has me buried in the backwoods a lot of the time. We have a nature preserve and it takes me out of circulation enough for Perry to fire me, David to shake his head and Tim to just put up with me. You're doing great stuff on the writing end, and I'm sorry that I wasn't able to be around on the offchance that you might need an Indian. Clearly you didn't! Thanks for asking.
All good thoughts,
Dan

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Musicman
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APS #213005
09 Mar 2010
09:11:42pm
re: Cancel Info?

Dan,

Can never have too many Indians....keeps them cowboys on their toes!

Glad you're back.


Randy

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Musicman
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APS #213005
11 Mar 2010
08:57:12pm
re: Cancel Info?

Arno,

Here's another cancel/postmark that I'd like you to expound upon if you can;

pm

Any info from anyone is welcome!



Randy

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Musicman
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APS #213005
11 Mar 2010
09:00:27pm
re: Cancel Info?

...by the way - both of the previous images of postmarked stamp are graphically cropped scans, so no one will be thinking bad things of me for cutting up covers......LOL


Randy

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Rhinelander
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Support the Hobby -- Join the American Philatelic Society
14 Mar 2010
10:39:18am
re: Cancel Info?

Randy,

Hello. Here we have another machine cancel. It is from a machine manufactured by the Barry Postal Supply Company of Oswego, NY. It is another fast electric type of machine that was used primarily in large post offices.

In mid 1895 the US Postal Department terminated its contract for post marking equipment with International. The flier -- discussed above -- was expensive -- and the government wanted to save money. In this period, postmarking machines were mostly rented for 1 year contract periods only. The sudden loss in revenues after termination of the contract with its by far largest customer forced the International Postal Supply Company almost immediately into receivership.

Barry was one of the primary beneficiaries to fill the gap. Soem earlier uses are known, but you really find their cancels from mid 1895 on. Their machines featured a unique transportation mechanism with needles pinning the envelope on the right hand side. If you look closely, you can probaby find these needle marks or scratches close to the right edge (front) of your cover.

The Barry machines were no equal to the International machinery. The Postal Department had to concede it made a mistake. In 1900, International was back on the scene. In 1901 they had again 20 machines in service; in 1905 already 250. Barry, in turn, was dissolved in 1910.

Barry postmarks come in a wide variety of formats with circular, oval, and straight-line postmarks. The most common ones are the various straight line styles of which the shown Lincoln, Nebr, May 15, 1901, postmark is a niece example.

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Musicman
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APS #213005
14 Mar 2010
12:39:51pm
re: Cancel Info?

...thanks once again Arno, for the input!

I've got a few other images I'll post on here later in the week to get your take on as well.

Randy

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