Discussion - Member to Member Sales - Research Center
Discussion - Member to Member Sales - Research Center
If you choose to answer this (and I would be appreciative if you did) a rationale would be appreciated. Also, if your answer is based on some recognized philatelic standard from an organization such as the APS, etc.that would be a plus.
As always, "Thank you for your support."
Bob
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Bob,
-- A mint stamp has gum on it and, at the time of issue, could have been used for postage.
-- An unused stamp is a "mint" stamp without gum, the gum having been washed off accidentally or intentionally; some classic stamps have gum that is cracking and could endanger the paper, so they are soaked (and sometimes fraudulently re-gummed).
-- A used stamp is rather more difficult to define. For purposes of evaluating, any cancelled stamp is used. If a stamp is on cover with other stamps, with some were cancelled and one or more were not, and together the stamps make up the correct rate, then the uncacancelled ones can be considered used. Such stamps they technically used but no one can know for sure. In Canada it's legal to use such "unused" stamps as postage, but not legal in the U.S. I don't know about other jurisdictions, and I can't imagine why Canada Post, which steals us blind and still loses mail and money, hasn't closed that loophole.
There are a few stamps, notably two German airmail stamps showing the Zeppelin Hindenburg which were gummed with adhesive which contains minute amounts of sulphuric acid. Most mint example of these stamps show toning from the acid. Even if they don't show toning, the gum should be soaked off.
Your cancelled souvenir sheet would be classed as used, and the philatelic cancellation would not add any value to it, and might even decrease the value, depending on how common they are. It might also be considered as a favour cancelled stamp/souvenir sheet, but it is not a CTO. CTOs, if they aren't bogus stamps, are always sold by government agencies, usually in bulk quantities.
I hope this helps. This comes to you on the authority of me. I'm the webmaster for the BC Philatleic Society, and its immediate past president, and I am a member of APS. But if I were you, I wouldn't take anything I say as gospel! :-)
Bob
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...just a note on what Bob said regarding a mint stamp having gum;
this only applies to a stamp that was originally ISSUED with gum.
This is probably obvious to most collectors, but there may be some possibly not aware that a small amount of stamps were indeed issued without gum.
Just an FYI.
Randy B.
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Thanks, Randy. I had planned to mention that, but my brain got hijacked by my thoughts, and then that spam came with the link to the really pretty girls who weren't wearing very much at all at all, and, uh, where was I? Oh, yes, gum. No, no gum. No gum on stamps. OK.
You're right, of course. The big deal about the Penny Black and most of its descendants was that they were self-adhesive, lick-and-stick stamps. But there have been quite a few stamps issued without gum. At least some Chinese stamps issued in the 1950s were gumless; I have a cover that shows clear evidence of a glue pot being used, rather sloppily. Most of the early Vietminh (Vietnamese communists in North Vietnam) were issued without gum as well. Offhand I can't think of any others, but I'm confident there are many more.
Tropical conditions have always caused problems with gum. During the Vietnam War, Australia issued a stamp booklet with a folded pane of 10 stamps for use by Australian soldiers in Vietnam. The stamps were ordinary, gummed stamps, but the inside of the booklet was coated with a specially formulated waxy substance that kept the stamps from sticking to the cardboard.
I've heard collectors about having to pay big premiums for gum, and collectors who insist on never-hinged stamps are sometimes called gum collectors. But this booklet is the first time I've paid a big premium for a booklet itself. There's another one on eBay right now, for a lot less than I paid six months ago. Maybe dealers will be giving stamps away free in a few more months!
Bob
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Note regarding previous post: I can't seem to upload images like I normally do. I get an error message. I'll get in touch with Tim to see if he can figure out what's wrong.
Bob
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Scene: Beijing, China
Year: 1989
Participants: My wife and I
Action: Went to P.O. to buy stamps to send postcards home to family. Knew better than to put anything near mouth from this country. Looked for water moistener for stamps.
Observation: No water, just glue pot.
Discovery: No glue (gum) on stamps.
BTW, have I actually gotten an answer about my original question?
Bob
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Boston Bob,
I don't quite agree with all the Bob I has said. I'm glad he and Randy agreed about gum not being the determinant in stamps issued without gum, now, let's see if they'll agree that stamps with gum, but cancelled, are NOT mint. This includes pre-cancelled stamps, CTOs, and hand backs.
Scott treats all precancells and CTOs as used (they are not postally used, of course, but they are cancelled). Mint is often described as "Post-Office fresh" and neither precancels nor CTOs are availble through the post office. I don't know how to deal with service-inscribed stamps, those that have surplanted some of the precancelled stamps of yester year.
I think if we divide used into used and postally used, we have an easier time of it. It certainly accounts for CTOs.
And, to provide my own take on an answer about your FIPEX sheet, I would call it a hand back. It's used, in that it's been cancelled, but with undisturbed gum, it's clearly not postally use. And, since it is used, the quality of its gum has no bearing.
For those following the apostrophe discussion elsewhere, the POSSESSIVE "its" in the previous paragraph is probably the most misused word in the English language (excluding politically charged words like "patriot").
David
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I said in my first post in this thread, "Your cancelled souvenir sheet would be classed as used, and the philatelic cancellation would not add any value to it, and might even decrease the value, depending on how common they are. It might also be considered as a favour cancelled stamp/souvenir sheet, but it is not a CTO."
I think that's what David said.
Bob
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It also has some value as a collectable of events/special events,ect. "cancels".
Know a lot of cancel collectors.Most of their items are cancels on stamps or covers,but One fellow started his collection ,as a youth, with a plain sheet of paper(typewriter paper) and affixed a stamp in the middle and had it canceled at his local PO (leechburg,PA) on THE DAY IT WAS FIRST AVAILABLE AT THE LEECHBURG POSTOFFICE.
Not a first day of issue,nor first day of sale nationwide,but first day of sale at that particular PO.
To him, they are "FDC". Not the traditional as others collect,but his very own "Leechburg First Day Covers".
FDCs have a wide interpretation of just what make them thus. And this is just another form of FDC as concieved,produced,and saved by a stamp collector who's idea and opinion of how and what to collect only varies by one detail.(according to FD cover/panel collectors).
I guess this is more of a postal history collection haveing to do with both Leechburg PO,and actual availability of issued stamps, and the documentation of such by the mear means of haveing a stamp stuck on a page and canceled on the FDA-- First Day of Availability.
TOM
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David should learn to read a little more carefully, then he'd know he was in agreement with the philatelic master. Ooops.
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its' -- possessive noun
it's -- conjunction of it is
its -- plural of it,meaning more than one it
It is quite clear that its are used in many ways and sometimes incorrectly in its' true meaning.
TOM
GIGGLE,GIGGLE,LOL
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to all the contrarian grammarians, you'll note that Tom is speaking tong in cheek; he knows dern well the plural of its is itses. He also should have added that its's plural possessive is thems's.
today's ditty (not Mr Combs): philatelicarachnaphobia.
it's the story of the its E bits E spider, it went up its spout, it got its feet (all eight of thems's) wet, and it got itself out of its pickle as quick as it's possible
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01:19:34pm
I'm looking at a souvenir sheet that is nothing special, just a stamp printed in the middle of a piece of paper with writing around it, much like the U.S. FIPEX sheet #1075. It was postmark canceled philatelically on the day of issue, but never used for anything. The gum is intact. Is this mint, used or what?
If you choose to answer this (and I would be appreciative if you did) a rationale would be appreciated. Also, if your answer is based on some recognized philatelic standard from an organization such as the APS, etc.that would be a plus.
As always, "Thank you for your support."
Bob
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re: Is it MNH, Used, CTO, or ???
Bob,
-- A mint stamp has gum on it and, at the time of issue, could have been used for postage.
-- An unused stamp is a "mint" stamp without gum, the gum having been washed off accidentally or intentionally; some classic stamps have gum that is cracking and could endanger the paper, so they are soaked (and sometimes fraudulently re-gummed).
-- A used stamp is rather more difficult to define. For purposes of evaluating, any cancelled stamp is used. If a stamp is on cover with other stamps, with some were cancelled and one or more were not, and together the stamps make up the correct rate, then the uncacancelled ones can be considered used. Such stamps they technically used but no one can know for sure. In Canada it's legal to use such "unused" stamps as postage, but not legal in the U.S. I don't know about other jurisdictions, and I can't imagine why Canada Post, which steals us blind and still loses mail and money, hasn't closed that loophole.
There are a few stamps, notably two German airmail stamps showing the Zeppelin Hindenburg which were gummed with adhesive which contains minute amounts of sulphuric acid. Most mint example of these stamps show toning from the acid. Even if they don't show toning, the gum should be soaked off.
Your cancelled souvenir sheet would be classed as used, and the philatelic cancellation would not add any value to it, and might even decrease the value, depending on how common they are. It might also be considered as a favour cancelled stamp/souvenir sheet, but it is not a CTO. CTOs, if they aren't bogus stamps, are always sold by government agencies, usually in bulk quantities.
I hope this helps. This comes to you on the authority of me. I'm the webmaster for the BC Philatleic Society, and its immediate past president, and I am a member of APS. But if I were you, I wouldn't take anything I say as gospel! :-)
Bob
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re: Is it MNH, Used, CTO, or ???
...just a note on what Bob said regarding a mint stamp having gum;
this only applies to a stamp that was originally ISSUED with gum.
This is probably obvious to most collectors, but there may be some possibly not aware that a small amount of stamps were indeed issued without gum.
Just an FYI.
Randy B.
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re: Is it MNH, Used, CTO, or ???
Thanks, Randy. I had planned to mention that, but my brain got hijacked by my thoughts, and then that spam came with the link to the really pretty girls who weren't wearing very much at all at all, and, uh, where was I? Oh, yes, gum. No, no gum. No gum on stamps. OK.
You're right, of course. The big deal about the Penny Black and most of its descendants was that they were self-adhesive, lick-and-stick stamps. But there have been quite a few stamps issued without gum. At least some Chinese stamps issued in the 1950s were gumless; I have a cover that shows clear evidence of a glue pot being used, rather sloppily. Most of the early Vietminh (Vietnamese communists in North Vietnam) were issued without gum as well. Offhand I can't think of any others, but I'm confident there are many more.
Tropical conditions have always caused problems with gum. During the Vietnam War, Australia issued a stamp booklet with a folded pane of 10 stamps for use by Australian soldiers in Vietnam. The stamps were ordinary, gummed stamps, but the inside of the booklet was coated with a specially formulated waxy substance that kept the stamps from sticking to the cardboard.
I've heard collectors about having to pay big premiums for gum, and collectors who insist on never-hinged stamps are sometimes called gum collectors. But this booklet is the first time I've paid a big premium for a booklet itself. There's another one on eBay right now, for a lot less than I paid six months ago. Maybe dealers will be giving stamps away free in a few more months!
Bob
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re: Is it MNH, Used, CTO, or ???
Note regarding previous post: I can't seem to upload images like I normally do. I get an error message. I'll get in touch with Tim to see if he can figure out what's wrong.
Bob
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06:42:38am
re: Is it MNH, Used, CTO, or ???
Scene: Beijing, China
Year: 1989
Participants: My wife and I
Action: Went to P.O. to buy stamps to send postcards home to family. Knew better than to put anything near mouth from this country. Looked for water moistener for stamps.
Observation: No water, just glue pot.
Discovery: No glue (gum) on stamps.
BTW, have I actually gotten an answer about my original question?
Bob
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this post
re: Is it MNH, Used, CTO, or ???
Boston Bob,
I don't quite agree with all the Bob I has said. I'm glad he and Randy agreed about gum not being the determinant in stamps issued without gum, now, let's see if they'll agree that stamps with gum, but cancelled, are NOT mint. This includes pre-cancelled stamps, CTOs, and hand backs.
Scott treats all precancells and CTOs as used (they are not postally used, of course, but they are cancelled). Mint is often described as "Post-Office fresh" and neither precancels nor CTOs are availble through the post office. I don't know how to deal with service-inscribed stamps, those that have surplanted some of the precancelled stamps of yester year.
I think if we divide used into used and postally used, we have an easier time of it. It certainly accounts for CTOs.
And, to provide my own take on an answer about your FIPEX sheet, I would call it a hand back. It's used, in that it's been cancelled, but with undisturbed gum, it's clearly not postally use. And, since it is used, the quality of its gum has no bearing.
For those following the apostrophe discussion elsewhere, the POSSESSIVE "its" in the previous paragraph is probably the most misused word in the English language (excluding politically charged words like "patriot").
David
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re: Is it MNH, Used, CTO, or ???
I said in my first post in this thread, "Your cancelled souvenir sheet would be classed as used, and the philatelic cancellation would not add any value to it, and might even decrease the value, depending on how common they are. It might also be considered as a favour cancelled stamp/souvenir sheet, but it is not a CTO."
I think that's what David said.
Bob
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11:34:02am
re: Is it MNH, Used, CTO, or ???
It also has some value as a collectable of events/special events,ect. "cancels".
Know a lot of cancel collectors.Most of their items are cancels on stamps or covers,but One fellow started his collection ,as a youth, with a plain sheet of paper(typewriter paper) and affixed a stamp in the middle and had it canceled at his local PO (leechburg,PA) on THE DAY IT WAS FIRST AVAILABLE AT THE LEECHBURG POSTOFFICE.
Not a first day of issue,nor first day of sale nationwide,but first day of sale at that particular PO.
To him, they are "FDC". Not the traditional as others collect,but his very own "Leechburg First Day Covers".
FDCs have a wide interpretation of just what make them thus. And this is just another form of FDC as concieved,produced,and saved by a stamp collector who's idea and opinion of how and what to collect only varies by one detail.(according to FD cover/panel collectors).
I guess this is more of a postal history collection haveing to do with both Leechburg PO,and actual availability of issued stamps, and the documentation of such by the mear means of haveing a stamp stuck on a page and canceled on the FDA-- First Day of Availability.
TOM
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re: Is it MNH, Used, CTO, or ???
David should learn to read a little more carefully, then he'd know he was in agreement with the philatelic master. Ooops.
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01:03:38am
re: Is it MNH, Used, CTO, or ???
its' -- possessive noun
it's -- conjunction of it is
its -- plural of it,meaning more than one it
It is quite clear that its are used in many ways and sometimes incorrectly in its' true meaning.
TOM
GIGGLE,GIGGLE,LOL
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re: Is it MNH, Used, CTO, or ???
to all the contrarian grammarians, you'll note that Tom is speaking tong in cheek; he knows dern well the plural of its is itses. He also should have added that its's plural possessive is thems's.
today's ditty (not Mr Combs): philatelicarachnaphobia.
it's the story of the its E bits E spider, it went up its spout, it got its feet (all eight of thems's) wet, and it got itself out of its pickle as quick as it's possible
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