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United States/Covers & Postmarks : Interesting cancel .....United States of Africa

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Sponthetrona2
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Keep Postal systems alive, buy stamps and mail often
23 Aug 2010
09:14:28pm
I have submitted this stamp for Ayan Khan, a brand new member ... NOTE THE CANCEL FROM AFRICA ... what can you tell us about it?

image

Perry
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Bobstamp
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23 Aug 2010
11:37:16pm
re: Interesting cancel .....United States of Africa

Sorry, but I don't see an African cancellation.

Bob

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Stampme
24 Aug 2010
12:14:54am
re: Interesting cancel .....United States of Africa

I do! Well, sort of.

(Message edited by stampme on August 24, 2010)

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Saleem
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24 Aug 2010
12:52:06am
re: Interesting cancel .....United States of Africa

POSTMASTER GENERAL OF THE UNITED STATES OF AFRICA
Evident on the bottom two stamps, I'm stumped!

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"Experience is the name you give to the mistakes you made yesterday."
Bobstamp
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24 Aug 2010
01:47:40am
re: Interesting cancel .....United States of Africa

See http://arago.si.edu/index.asp?con=1&cmd=1&mode=1&tid=2034189.

The cancellation on the top two stamps appears to read:

"SIXTH INTERNATIONAL
PHILATELIC EXHIBITION
WASHINGTON D.C. 1966"

I expect that the postmaster general's office sponsored a postal outlet for the exhibition, and created the special exhibition cancellation. Canada Post has done the same for VANPEX.

Bob

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Saleem
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24 Aug 2010
02:22:12am
re: Interesting cancel .....United States of Africa

But why the United States of Africa?? There is no entity by this name and the US of America PMG wouldn't be issuing cancellations in this capacity even for shows. Could this be a forged cancellation?

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Sponthetrona2
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Keep Postal systems alive, buy stamps and mail often
24 Aug 2010
10:16:54am
re: Interesting cancel .....United States of Africa

Here is a closeup of the "Africa"

image

Yes it does have two separate cancellations ...

Perry

(Message edited by sponthetrona2 on August 24, 2010)

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Bobstamp
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24 Aug 2010
12:40:21pm
re: Interesting cancel .....United States of Africa

I see it now, and don't see how I missed it in the first image. Anyway, could this be one of those goofy lack-of-attention snafus, along the line of the engraver who (apparently) erred in creating the first two Mauritius stamps with the words "Post Office" rather than "Post Paid".*

Or it is quite possibly a bogus cancellation used for propaganda:

In 2009, Libya's Moammar Gahadfi promoted the idea of a "United States of Africa". I found this quote on a web page (Le Monde Diplomatique): "The United States of Africa remains a constant theme - the great dream cherished from the earliest days of pan-Africanism. For many political leaders, the failure of the post-colonial state is the root cause of the marginalisation and upsurge in violence that is plunging whole swathes of Africa into chaos. They also think the failure is the source of the dramatic rise in poverty that now threatens the survival of tens of thousands of people. It is destroying what remains of social cohesion, and leaving the way open to the terrifying pandemics of Aids and malaria. Meantime managers are unemployed, have left the country or are closeted away in a bankrupt civil service, wasting the hard-won knowledge they acquired from western schooling."

It's not hard to believe that someone well schooled in African politics, and yearning for improvements that a well-administrated coalition of all African states could bring to Africa, would use every means at his disposal to bring that dream about, including bogus cancellations. Interesting, isn't it, that U.S.A. is the initials of both the United States of America and the United States of Africa.

Question for Perry: Why do you think that there are two separate cancellations? It appears that the lines are all centered, and equally spaced. It would be hard to apply two different rubber stamp images so precisely. I'm thinking someone just had a rubber stamp made up as a bogus copy of an actual postal service cancellation device made for the exhibition.

Bob

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Sponthetrona2
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Keep Postal systems alive, buy stamps and mail often
24 Aug 2010
05:09:59pm
re: Interesting cancel .....United States of Africa

This image was sent to me by a new member who was interested in it's value ... well I was interested in it's uniqueness so I posted it. I have no clue of it's history, er, perhaps Ayan can help us here ... ?

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Aak
29 Aug 2010
01:38:27pm
re: Interesting cancel .....United States of Africa

HELLO, OK IM HERE, WELL MR.BOB IT S NOT A BOGUS COPY AS FAR AS I KNOW, BCOZ MY GRANDFATHER USED TO COLLECT VERY DIFFERENT & UNIQUE STAMPS.HE WAS A HUGE COLLECTOR. I MEAN THAT S NOT ALL I HAVE MORE STAMPS LIKE THESE WITH SOME SHOCKING ERRORS,ILL PASS YOU IT S IMAGE SOON. WELL I DONT HAVE MUCH KNOWLEDGE ABOUT STAMPS,THATS WHY I CAME TO YOU PEOPLE.IM 100% SURE THAT IT S NOT FAKE OTHERWISE MY GRANDFATHER WULD HAVEN T KEPT IT WITH HIM IN HIS CATALOGUE.WELL IM SURE WHEN ILL PASS THIS STAMP TO YOU PEOPLE, ULL GET IT BYURSELF.BUT FIRST I THINK I SHOULD HAND THIS OVER TO ANY GRADING EXPERT OR SOMEONE FOR A CHECK, WHAT U SAY?

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Sponthetrona2
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Keep Postal systems alive, buy stamps and mail often
29 Aug 2010
04:32:58pm
re: Interesting cancel .....United States of Africa

Thanks for the UPDATE Ayan ... let me see those images that we discussed and I will post a few in the discussion section for critique. Perry

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Aak
29 Aug 2010
06:55:59pm
re: Interesting cancel .....United States of Africa

OK THANKS PERRY:-)

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Bobstamp
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29 Aug 2010
07:17:56pm
re: Interesting cancel .....United States of Africa

I gotta point out that just because something is fake, or bogus, or a forgery, or otherwise illegitimate doesn't make it uncollectible. I know several collectors who have forgeries and bogus stamps in their collections. I do. In their own right, they are as interesting as the original stamps they attempt to duplicate. I bought a bogus stamp showing Jane Fonda simply because it's the only stamp I could find with her picture on it: I will use it one day to illustrate a non-political exhibit page about her support of the North Vietnamese during the Vietnam War.

Anyway, my point is that even "huge collectors" will collect what suits their interests. Bogus stamps, or bogus cancellations, are not intrinsically bad or good, valuable or valueless. Their worth comes from the interest they generate within the part of our brains that says we must collect stamps.

Bob

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John_macco
29 Aug 2010
07:31:04pm
re: Interesting cancel .....United States of Africa

I thought the cancellation may be a slogan cancel used during the SIPEX Exhibition in 1966 but it is not in the United States Postal Slogan cancel catalog by Moe Luff 1975 edition. I will do further research on this after I get back from vacation.

(Message edited by john macco on September 06, 2010)

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Aak
06 Sep 2010
01:09:50pm
re: Interesting cancel .....United States of Africa

DID SOMEONE GET MORE INFO ON THIS???? I MEAN ON THIS CANCEL???

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Sponthetrona2
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Keep Postal systems alive, buy stamps and mail often
07 Sep 2010
10:03:46am
re: Interesting cancel .....United States of Africa

Even IF this canceled block is bogus or real there is very little additional value except perhaps to cancel collectors, but even then it would be minimal ( it's a common stamp ) ... remember an error in a stamp is in the stamp not necessarily in the cancel ... that is where the value would kick in ... if someone wanted this stamp all you would need to do is post it in the auction, select a REASONABLE opening bid and wait and see ...Perry

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amsd
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Editor, Seal News; contributor, JuicyHeads
07 Sep 2010
10:25:15am

Auctions
re: Interesting cancel .....United States of Africa

actually, that's a great idea; list the stamp in the auction and see what happens.

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Aak
27 Sep 2010
08:07:46am
re: Interesting cancel .....United States of Africa

Oh WELL GREAT! SO HOW AM I GOING TO PUT THIS IN AUCTION?

WHY DONT U GUYS PROMOTE THIS STAMP EVERYWHERE IN STATES??

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Dani20
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27 Sep 2010
08:56:51am
re: Interesting cancel .....United States of Africa

Dear Aak,
If you're looking for help in posting it to our auction, just ask. Remember, the responsibility to do so , and to follow the rules of the auction, all rest with you.

I'd suggest you start by reading the rules, on the home page, and to try to post it. When you get into trouble, just ask. We're friendly here, but do require you to do the heavy lifting.

Dan C.

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Rhinelander
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Support the Hobby -- Join the American Philatelic Society
27 Sep 2010
09:37:38am
re: Interesting cancel .....United States of Africa

I don't know what all the excitement is about. Bobstamp has alredy given the answer about a month ago; "rubber stamp made up as a bogus copy of an actual postal service cancellation device." -- Except maybe that I might disagree with Bob on the notion that it is an imitation of an actual postal service cancellation device. I am not aware of a true cancellation device that someone might have imitated here. Especially, it cannot be the slogan portion of a machine cancel. The dimensions do not fit (height!). It is entirely a fantasy. Thus, no surprise that it is not included in the Slogan cancel literature (John_macco's posting).

Bobstamp then further elaborated -- correctly -- that just "because something is fake, or bogus, or a forgery, or otherwise illegitimate doesn't make it uncollectible." So, you can still sell it, albeit don't get your hopes up too high. There are only few buyers out there for this kind of stuff. The value to me is ZERO (and I collect lots of postmarks).

Arno

(Message edited by rhinelander on September 27, 2010)

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Bobstamp
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27 Sep 2010
10:25:28am
re: Interesting cancel .....United States of Africa

Aak said, "WHY DONT U GUYS PROMOTE THIS STAMP EVERYWHERE IN STATES??"

Aak,

We are all willing to provide information about philately to you or to any novice beginner or experienced collector. No one can possibly know even a tenth of the information there is to know about stamps; if one of us knows something that someone else doesn't know, we are more than willing to help out. However…

None of us have the time or inclination to undertake tasks that you should be doing for yourself. Scores of people post lots for sale in our auctions, and do it on their own, perhaps asking for technical information about sizing and uploading images. I don't remember in 10-plus years that I've been a member of Stamporama being asked to help promote the sale of a stamp for someone else. Stamporama does not exist as unpaid help for your tasks. As Dani20 said, the heavy lifting is your responsibility.

Bob

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Aak
30 Sep 2010
11:14:53am
re: Interesting cancel .....United States of Africa

THANK U FOR UR ADVICES EXPERTS, BUT THE POINT IS I HAVE SEEN ONE THING, WHEN IF U HAVE RARE AND UNIQUE THING, U CAN DEMAND ITS PRICE,FOR E.G LIKE RECENTLY WITH THAT FAMOUS 1943 RARE ONE PENNY CENT. IT WENT FROM $2,18,000 TO 1.7 MILLION, JUS BECAUSE IT WAS RARE. EVEN ON E-BAY U CAN SEE MANY RARE STAMP, THAT THEY DEMAND FOR THEIR STAMP JUST ON THEIR UNIQUNESS. I HAVEN T SEEN SUCH TYPE OF A STAMP BEFORE. I HAVE SENT THIS STAMP TO PSE NOW PROFESSIONAL STAMP EXPERT. & NOW IM JUST WAITING FOR ITS CERTIFICATE.N THEN M GONNA SHOW IT:-)

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Dani20
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30 Sep 2010
11:46:01am
re: Interesting cancel .....United States of Africa

Dear Aak,
Good for you. You've sought out the non-expert advice, found it wanting, and have decided to have it looked at for certification by a recognized expert. Good for you. Be sure to share with us whatever you find out about it.
Dan C.

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Rgnpcs
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30 Sep 2010
04:07:07pm
re: Interesting cancel .....United States of Africa

Send it to Linn's Letters to the Editor.
Whenever i am in doubt about a philatelic item, I send it to Linns.
Richaard

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Bobstamp
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30 Sep 2010
05:13:59pm
re: Interesting cancel .....United States of Africa

No one can "demand" a price for anything. They can ask again and again and again, but if there's no buyer, then the item is worth less than the seller believes, or it is literally worthless.

This discussion is rapidly becoming circular.

Bob

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Stampme
03 Oct 2010
01:59:00am
re: Interesting cancel .....United States of Africa

I'm curious about the final answer on this...
Bruce

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Aak
04 Oct 2010
12:53:01pm
re: Interesting cancel .....United States of Africa

ok yes thanks Experts:-) Ok dan, ok richard:-)
yes same here Bruce:-)

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Malcolm197
04 Oct 2010
03:21:09pm
re: Interesting cancel .....United States of Africa

As regards value - if you can provide "provenance" that is documentary evidence of the why, where and how this was produced ( a newspaper article or magazine cutting ) its desirability to the collectors of the curious will multiply. As a curiosity with no context it is virtually worthless- however in context it will have a value ( but not world cruise class! )

Malcolm

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Aak
08 Jan 2011
04:28:51pm
re: Interesting cancel .....United States of Africa

Hello everyone I want to Upload some of my collections to everyone.....From where should i upload Stamp pictures,,,,Please reply:-)

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Cdj1122
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Silence in the face of adversity is the father of complicity and collusion, the first cousins of conspiracy..
09 Jan 2011
12:38:44pm
re: Interesting cancel .....United States of Africa

Did you by any chance, read the "Image Upload Tutorial" that is listed in the left hand window of the screen under "Documentation"?
.
\!!!!//
->YOU<- need to start there.
//!!!!\

Then I am sure that the members will be glad to answer questions that you might have.

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".... You may think you understood what you thought I said, but I'm not sure you realize that what you think you heard is not what I thought I meant. .... "
Aak
17 Jan 2011
04:01:43pm
re: Interesting cancel .....United States of Africa

xyz

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Parkinlot
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President - West Essex Philatelic Society www.wepsonline.org
17 Jan 2011
04:18:58pm
re: Interesting cancel .....United States of Africa

Has the certification come back on this yet???

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"APS - AFDCS - GBCC - USSS - SCC - IPDA"

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Bobstamp
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07 Feb 2011
01:58:12pm
re: Interesting cancel .....United States of Africa

xyz? And yes, how about that certification?

Bob

(Message edited by Bobstamp on February 07, 2011)

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Aak
02 Mar 2011
08:37:26am
re: Interesting cancel .....United States of Africa

Yes the stamp is still with PSE experts, I dont know what they re trying to do with it, they re doing some research or somethin, Actually they ve gone crazy or something after looking at it i guess,,,,, anyhow Guys , Im in toronto these days with some of my collection, Does someone know any big dealer or stamp buyer in toronto , who can check that stamp and could give me its payment, Please reply

Regards
Ayan khan

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Cdj1122
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Silence in the face of adversity is the father of complicity and collusion, the first cousins of conspiracy..
02 Mar 2011
08:58:53pm
re: Interesting cancel .....United States of Africa

If the stamp is still with the PSE experts, how can you show it to some big time buyer in Toronto to check ?
Charlie

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".... You may think you understood what you thought I said, but I'm not sure you realize that what you think you heard is not what I thought I meant. .... "
Patches
Liz
02 Mar 2011
09:37:02pm

Approvals
re: Interesting cancel .....United States of Africa

http://www.stampshows.com/dealers.html

Here's a list of dealers that you can go through to try and find dealers in Toronto. There aren't that many, believe it or not.

You're in Toronto. I suggest you pick up the Yellow Pages phone book and look for 'Postage Stamp Dealers' listings in Toronto and surrounding area.

Liz

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Michael78651
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02 Mar 2011
09:48:12pm
re: Interesting cancel .....United States of Africa

I'm going to hazard a possible solution to this question. First, the cancel was applied to the stamps at the exhibition in Washington, DC. No doubt about that.

In 1961, The African and Malagasy Union was created, which economically joined the countries of Cameroun, Central Africa, Chad, Congo People's Republic, Dahomey, Gabon, Ivory Coast, Malagasy (Madagascar), Mauritania, Niger, Senegal and Upper Volta (Burkina Faso). These were all former French colonies in Africa that had gained their independence. These nations also entered into an economic agreement with Europe (EuropAfrica)in 1963, and formed the African Postal Union in 1963. I would say that these countries had a united presentation at the exhibition, and the special cancel was used at the show. The cancel reference of "postmaster would be the Postmaster of the African Postal Union. Why they permitted the cancel to be used on a US stamp may never be known. Perhaps it was a special show cover that someone created and had attached stamps from those African nations as well, using the US commemorative for the show on the same cover to tie the stamps and the cancel to the show. If this was part of a cover, it is too bad that the stamps were soaked off. Could have been some interesting philatelic history.

At least, that is my take on this. Now let's see if someone can verify this or correct it.

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Michael78651
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02 Mar 2011
09:51:51pm
re: Interesting cancel .....United States of Africa

One last thing is that since these stamps are off-cover, I don't think that the cancel will add much to the value. Stamps of other countries get cancels from other countries all the time. It is the cover that makes the connection and potential added value. It is definitely a curio piece, however, make no mistake on that, and that might be worth a little bit, but anyone could create a cancel and put it on a stamp, thus the limited added value. IMHO

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Alyn
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webmaster for the ISWSC http://iswsc.org and ATA http://www.americantopicalassn.org
03 Mar 2011
08:59:44am
re: Interesting cancel .....United States of Africa

Dealers in toronto from the (Canadian Stamp Dealers Association) CSDA website:

George L. Baghdadi
Fairdeal Trading & Investment
(416) 335-5105 Fax: (416) 335-5105
e-mail: gbaghdadi@hotmail.com

Alan G. Burrows
Telephone: (416) 483-7325
e-mail: albur@rogers.com

Allan N. Fruman
Fruman Philatelics Inc.
Telephone: (416) 283-5969 Fax: (416) 265-1338
e-mail: alfruman@hotmail.com
Website: www.frumanstamps.com

Alex Issajenko
Amis Coins & Stamps
Telephone: (416) 533-5363
e-mail: mollyo@sympatico.ca
Retail Store:
Amis Stamps & Coins
2238 Dundas St. W.
Toronto, ON
M6R 3A9 Canada

R. Maresch & Son Auctions
Telephone: (416) 363-7777 Fax: (416) 363-6511
Website: www.maresch.com

H.B. Martin, Jr.
Empire Stamp Corporation
Telephone: (416) 921-8967 Fax: (416) 968-3725

Edmund H. (Ted) Wright
Telephone: (416) 461-1704 Fax: (416) 461-7089
Website: www.hcanteen.com
Retail Store:
Hollywood Canteen
1714 Danforth Ave
Toronto, ON
M4C 1H8 Canada



Alyn

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amsd
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Editor, Seal News; contributor, JuicyHeads
03 Mar 2011
10:05:52am

Auctions
re: Interesting cancel .....United States of Africa

would love to hear the outcome of both the AU cancel as well as what the Canadian dealers have to say.

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Aak
04 Mar 2011
04:04:59pm
re: Interesting cancel .....United States of Africa

OMG THANK U ALYN THANK U SOO MUCH FOR THE ADDRESS, AND YES THAT STAMP IS STILL WITH PSE EXPERTS IN STATES, BUT YEA RITE NOW IM IN TORONTO THESE DAYS , FOR MY MOST IMPROTANT STAMP :"THE I.R OFFICIAL" 6D PALE PURPLE, IM JUST ON MY WAY NOW AFTER THESE ADDRESSES , THANK U GUYS THANK U SOO MUCH, ILL RESPONSE YOU ALL SOON AFTER THE RESULT OF I.R.OFFICIAL AND UNITED STATES OF AFRICA:-)

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