Discussion - Member to Member Sales - Research Center
Discussion - Member to Member Sales - Research Center
12:20:32pm
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A scan or really good photo of the stamp you are asking about would be really common sense to show us?
In addition using two $$ to make a word is not fooling anyone. Their are children that read SOU, you should ne ashamed of your self!
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For US, I have only used measurements for flat plate vs rotary. For wet/dry, mostly Liberty, I have color, ink bleed, offset on back, etc. I cannot say I have been 100% correct.
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Check out this link. https://1847us.com/wet-dry-printing-methods/
There has been a number of discussions about this very subject on this forum in the past. I haven't read them in quite some time but they do exist.
In the link there are some examples of wet and dry printed stamps listed.
I asked a similar question some years ago and the answers I got fell very short and were at times what one could consider smart alec answers. However as time has gone on I have learned that all of the answers that I was seeking were in-fact right in front of me. It is the catalog and I must say that it is very frustrating at times to read through a now 2 volume almost 2000 page catalog that reads like assembly instructions that only an engineer can understand. It's enough to make the Pope angry. Pun intended.
It is an almost impossible task to differentiate the differences between wet and dry printings when it comes to used stamps unless it is clearly stated in the stamp cat # and description such as the special handling series. Beyond that for example is where the water gets very murky unless you of course have the measuring equipment to make the distinction between the 2 printing methods. Even then the measurements are (SWAGS) Scientific Wild alec Guesses made by the individual taking the measurement.
I hope this helps.
Jeremy
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SOU was a mistake on my part, sorry it should have been SOR!
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02:17:18pm
Jeremy, thanks for the site. It explains the differences quite well but IMHO there still seems to be a lot of what I think of as "arm waving". It seems to me to be an area I'm going to try to avoid as much as possible. Usually a stamp is either one or the other and if both exist with the same stamp one tends to be ###a. I think I'll do my best to just get one stamp of the two and not be concerned about what it is. I'm an "old dog" not wanting to learn "new tricks" unless I absolutely have to! Sometimes a seller tries to say magical things about a stamp and it really makes me wonder if they actually know what they're talking about. I am not talking about anyone on this site, so please don't be insulted. It's all the arm waving by e-bay sellers that I find annoying!
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Ok gents lets get back to the original topic.
It is plain for everyone to see that bleeping out what can be considered foul language still bothers some people. So I have edited my post to another word to get the same message across and I apologize if my phrasing offends anyone. If anyone ever has a problem with my posts send a private message. But beware you may not like the result. But rest assured the same rule applies to me. I would rather handle something privately like an adult than put my laundry out to air like a child.
Enough of that. Lets get back to the original topic please before I take my ball and go home. Just kidding.
Jeremy
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Joe....
There are a couple of things, other than the design size difference, that I remember when I was trying to separate some examples of Australian airmail Scott #C1.
Dry printing results in a raised ink effect, as the ink sits on the surface of the paper rather than sinking in.
Dry printing often uses paper that is thicker, smoother, and more rigid, with a higher surface sheen. Wet printing often utilizes paper that is thin enough to be easily dampened and pliable. The difference is quite small and would need a thickness gauge to differentiate.
Hopes that is of some help. Cheers, Terry
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Harvey,
I understand the feelings of frustration and your very good analogy of arm waiving like we're in a classroom. You should know that I would love to have those answers to the wet and dry printing subject. You aren't the only one asking or that has asked in the past and present. My minion I am sure will be asking those questions very soon.
The one thing that has really ground my gears and made me very angry in the past is when I have asked in person what is considered to be a subject matter expert these very important questions to the hobby and I have received the rhetorical question or snipe comment back. The last person who did that to me lost my business immediately.
Lets try to find the answers as a team.
Jeremy
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03:39:23pm
I apologize to anyone who was offended by my comments! My bad and I'll control myself in the future!
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Besides the characteristics that have been mentioned, there is another one that is also sometimes hard to discern. The wet printings were from the Stickney press that applied gum with a grooved roller and can show indistinct, faint lines. Dry printings were from the Huck-Cottrells presses which used a smooth roller and does not show those lines. But this difference is subtle. Of course, if you have plate blocks you can check the plate block number in Durland which identifies both wet and dry blocks. There is also some differences in the margin selvedge between the two printings.
I will try and post scans of the backs of wet and dry printings, but you may not be able to see the lines that I am describing because you have to angle the stamp to see the difference.
I did list them in a past approval book that sold out, but I still have extras of both wet & dry printings on several of the stamps in this series and If I don't have enough for another book, I may list them in the auction.
I hope this information helps,
Fred
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I forgot to add that if any of you don't have a Durland Standard Plate Number Catalogue, I will be happy to check any plate blocks that you have of this series for wet or dry printings. I just need the denomination, design and Scott number.
Fred
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Harvey....Are you having trouble measuring them? Unitrade gives the actual measurement for wet and dry, but that's only for Canadian stamps. Are you looking at other countries?
I know I wasn't going to post much for awhile, but 1899......your post was really uncalled for...just sayin.
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06:23:18pm
John, I feel really stupid!! I was expecting to see differences in size for individual stamps, not at the beginning of the various series which is where the measurements actually are. All I have to do is haul out my really accurate ruler. It just goes to show that I never properly looked at my Unitrade!!! Dumb, dumb, dumb!!! Thanks John!
I'm actually going to really cut down on my posts for the foreseeable future, all I seem to be able to do properly is tick people off! I'm going to stick totally to showing scans of interesting items from my collection and stay away from anything that could even remotely cause a problem. This site in not as much fun as it used to be, and that's very unfortunate! Even this statement will probably come back to bite me!!
But John, thanks for both your help and all the great Canada items you offer on Hipstamp. My collection has benefited greatly!!
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Common sense question is the OP's posting asking about Canada stamps or United States of America stamps?
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Scott Cat. 2016 edition, Specialized United States 0f America, note for "Wet and Dry Printing", . . . All postage stamps have been printed by the dry process since the late 1950s!
Might be helpful in some small way.
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Attached is a scan showing the front and back of two plate blocks of the 1954 3¢ Statue of Liberty stamp in the Liberty Series: Plate Block No.25212 (wet printing) & Plate Block No.25662 (dry printing).
The wet printing block is not as sharp as the dry printing block. You can’t really see the lines on the gummed side that I mentioned in my previous email but you can see that the paper in the wet printing block is more translucent (i.e. thinner) while the paper in the dry printing is whiter and more opaque.
Another difference between the two printings is the position of the marginal electric-eye bars. On the Stickney press (wet printing), the bars only appear in the wide outer margins of left position panes and are located approximately level with the top frame of the adjacent stamp subject.
On the Huck-Cottrells press (dry printing) the bars appear approximately level with the center of the adjacent stamp subject and can appear in both outer margins.
Less you think I am some sort of expert on United States stamp production methods, I am not. I am a worldwide and topical collector. But as much as I love stamps, I also love books and have a decent philatelic library. One of those books is the 2007 APS handbook The Liberty Series by Ken Lawrence, C. David Eeles and Anthony S. Wawrukiewicz from which the above information was extracted
.
Fred
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Thank you for sharing that post with us Fred.
In four short paragraphs you have answered many of my questions that have been burning in my mind for years. It hasn't been because I haven't asked because I have. It just so happens that the topic came up in the correct forum and you are at the right place and time to give us all some straight answers. Now we know what to look for.
Jeremy
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05:56:43pm
I second everything that Jeremy said - very very helpful indeed!!!!
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I just use plate number singles:
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Harvey
Did you get the info you wanted?
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Back when I had a bunch! I think, therefore I am - I think! Descartes, sort of!
24 Jun 2025
12:20:32pm
I know that stamps that are done by wet printing are slightly smaller than those done by dry printing because of shrinkage of the wet paper as it dries. Is there any other way to tell? It's OK if you have several stamps you can measure but what if you don't? There must be some other difference. I could try Google but maybe someone here can help. Please, no smart a$$ answers, I really do want to know! Saying it's common sense is not what I want!!
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re: Dry vs. wet printings
A scan or really good photo of the stamp you are asking about would be really common sense to show us?
In addition using two $$ to make a word is not fooling anyone. Their are children that read SOU, you should ne ashamed of your self!
Login to Like
this post
re: Dry vs. wet printings
For US, I have only used measurements for flat plate vs rotary. For wet/dry, mostly Liberty, I have color, ink bleed, offset on back, etc. I cannot say I have been 100% correct.
Login to Like
this post
01:46:36pm
re: Dry vs. wet printings
Check out this link. https://1847us.com/wet-dry-printing-methods/
There has been a number of discussions about this very subject on this forum in the past. I haven't read them in quite some time but they do exist.
In the link there are some examples of wet and dry printed stamps listed.
I asked a similar question some years ago and the answers I got fell very short and were at times what one could consider smart alec answers. However as time has gone on I have learned that all of the answers that I was seeking were in-fact right in front of me. It is the catalog and I must say that it is very frustrating at times to read through a now 2 volume almost 2000 page catalog that reads like assembly instructions that only an engineer can understand. It's enough to make the Pope angry. Pun intended.
It is an almost impossible task to differentiate the differences between wet and dry printings when it comes to used stamps unless it is clearly stated in the stamp cat # and description such as the special handling series. Beyond that for example is where the water gets very murky unless you of course have the measuring equipment to make the distinction between the 2 printing methods. Even then the measurements are (SWAGS) Scientific Wild alec Guesses made by the individual taking the measurement.
I hope this helps.
Jeremy
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this post
re: Dry vs. wet printings
SOU was a mistake on my part, sorry it should have been SOR!
Login to Like
this post
Back when I had a bunch! I think, therefore I am - I think! Descartes, sort of!
24 Jun 2025
02:17:18pm
re: Dry vs. wet printings
Jeremy, thanks for the site. It explains the differences quite well but IMHO there still seems to be a lot of what I think of as "arm waving". It seems to me to be an area I'm going to try to avoid as much as possible. Usually a stamp is either one or the other and if both exist with the same stamp one tends to be ###a. I think I'll do my best to just get one stamp of the two and not be concerned about what it is. I'm an "old dog" not wanting to learn "new tricks" unless I absolutely have to! Sometimes a seller tries to say magical things about a stamp and it really makes me wonder if they actually know what they're talking about. I am not talking about anyone on this site, so please don't be insulted. It's all the arm waving by e-bay sellers that I find annoying!
Login to Like
this post
02:21:23pm
re: Dry vs. wet printings
Ok gents lets get back to the original topic.
It is plain for everyone to see that bleeping out what can be considered foul language still bothers some people. So I have edited my post to another word to get the same message across and I apologize if my phrasing offends anyone. If anyone ever has a problem with my posts send a private message. But beware you may not like the result. But rest assured the same rule applies to me. I would rather handle something privately like an adult than put my laundry out to air like a child.
Enough of that. Lets get back to the original topic please before I take my ball and go home. Just kidding.
Jeremy
Login to Like
this post
re: Dry vs. wet printings
Joe....
There are a couple of things, other than the design size difference, that I remember when I was trying to separate some examples of Australian airmail Scott #C1.
Dry printing results in a raised ink effect, as the ink sits on the surface of the paper rather than sinking in.
Dry printing often uses paper that is thicker, smoother, and more rigid, with a higher surface sheen. Wet printing often utilizes paper that is thin enough to be easily dampened and pliable. The difference is quite small and would need a thickness gauge to differentiate.
Hopes that is of some help. Cheers, Terry
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this post
02:33:36pm
re: Dry vs. wet printings
Harvey,
I understand the feelings of frustration and your very good analogy of arm waiving like we're in a classroom. You should know that I would love to have those answers to the wet and dry printing subject. You aren't the only one asking or that has asked in the past and present. My minion I am sure will be asking those questions very soon.
The one thing that has really ground my gears and made me very angry in the past is when I have asked in person what is considered to be a subject matter expert these very important questions to the hobby and I have received the rhetorical question or snipe comment back. The last person who did that to me lost my business immediately.
Lets try to find the answers as a team.
Jeremy
Login to Like
this post
Back when I had a bunch! I think, therefore I am - I think! Descartes, sort of!
24 Jun 2025
03:39:23pm
re: Dry vs. wet printings
I apologize to anyone who was offended by my comments! My bad and I'll control myself in the future!
Login to Like
this post
re: Dry vs. wet printings
Besides the characteristics that have been mentioned, there is another one that is also sometimes hard to discern. The wet printings were from the Stickney press that applied gum with a grooved roller and can show indistinct, faint lines. Dry printings were from the Huck-Cottrells presses which used a smooth roller and does not show those lines. But this difference is subtle. Of course, if you have plate blocks you can check the plate block number in Durland which identifies both wet and dry blocks. There is also some differences in the margin selvedge between the two printings.
I will try and post scans of the backs of wet and dry printings, but you may not be able to see the lines that I am describing because you have to angle the stamp to see the difference.
I did list them in a past approval book that sold out, but I still have extras of both wet & dry printings on several of the stamps in this series and If I don't have enough for another book, I may list them in the auction.
I hope this information helps,
Fred
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this post
re: Dry vs. wet printings
I forgot to add that if any of you don't have a Durland Standard Plate Number Catalogue, I will be happy to check any plate blocks that you have of this series for wet or dry printings. I just need the denomination, design and Scott number.
Fred
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re: Dry vs. wet printings
Harvey....Are you having trouble measuring them? Unitrade gives the actual measurement for wet and dry, but that's only for Canadian stamps. Are you looking at other countries?
I know I wasn't going to post much for awhile, but 1899......your post was really uncalled for...just sayin.
Login to Like
this post
Back when I had a bunch! I think, therefore I am - I think! Descartes, sort of!
24 Jun 2025
06:23:18pm
re: Dry vs. wet printings
John, I feel really stupid!! I was expecting to see differences in size for individual stamps, not at the beginning of the various series which is where the measurements actually are. All I have to do is haul out my really accurate ruler. It just goes to show that I never properly looked at my Unitrade!!! Dumb, dumb, dumb!!! Thanks John!
I'm actually going to really cut down on my posts for the foreseeable future, all I seem to be able to do properly is tick people off! I'm going to stick totally to showing scans of interesting items from my collection and stay away from anything that could even remotely cause a problem. This site in not as much fun as it used to be, and that's very unfortunate! Even this statement will probably come back to bite me!!
But John, thanks for both your help and all the great Canada items you offer on Hipstamp. My collection has benefited greatly!!
1 Member
likes this post.
Login to Like.
re: Dry vs. wet printings
Common sense question is the OP's posting asking about Canada stamps or United States of America stamps?
Login to Like
this post
re: Dry vs. wet printings
Scott Cat. 2016 edition, Specialized United States 0f America, note for "Wet and Dry Printing", . . . All postage stamps have been printed by the dry process since the late 1950s!
Might be helpful in some small way.
1 Member
likes this post.
Login to Like.
re: Dry vs. wet printings
Attached is a scan showing the front and back of two plate blocks of the 1954 3¢ Statue of Liberty stamp in the Liberty Series: Plate Block No.25212 (wet printing) & Plate Block No.25662 (dry printing).
The wet printing block is not as sharp as the dry printing block. You can’t really see the lines on the gummed side that I mentioned in my previous email but you can see that the paper in the wet printing block is more translucent (i.e. thinner) while the paper in the dry printing is whiter and more opaque.
Another difference between the two printings is the position of the marginal electric-eye bars. On the Stickney press (wet printing), the bars only appear in the wide outer margins of left position panes and are located approximately level with the top frame of the adjacent stamp subject.
On the Huck-Cottrells press (dry printing) the bars appear approximately level with the center of the adjacent stamp subject and can appear in both outer margins.
Less you think I am some sort of expert on United States stamp production methods, I am not. I am a worldwide and topical collector. But as much as I love stamps, I also love books and have a decent philatelic library. One of those books is the 2007 APS handbook The Liberty Series by Ken Lawrence, C. David Eeles and Anthony S. Wawrukiewicz from which the above information was extracted.
Fred
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05:39:32pm
re: Dry vs. wet printings
Thank you for sharing that post with us Fred.
In four short paragraphs you have answered many of my questions that have been burning in my mind for years. It hasn't been because I haven't asked because I have. It just so happens that the topic came up in the correct forum and you are at the right place and time to give us all some straight answers. Now we know what to look for.
Jeremy
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this post
Back when I had a bunch! I think, therefore I am - I think! Descartes, sort of!
26 Jun 2025
05:56:43pm
re: Dry vs. wet printings
I second everything that Jeremy said - very very helpful indeed!!!!
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re: Dry vs. wet printings
I just use plate number singles:
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re: Dry vs. wet printings
Harvey
Did you get the info you wanted?
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