Discussion - Member to Member Sales - Research Center
Discussion - Member to Member Sales - Research Center
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A genius invention!
Let me know if you need info on offset or flat plate.
Printing runs in my family...
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Show Topic - Canada.
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To my knowledge, the American Banknote Company (ABNC) which later became the Canadian Banknote Company (CBNC) introduced a rotary type wet press starting in 1897 for Canadian stamps that were needed in larger quantities. However, it was a sheet-fed wet press and it was used in addition to the sheet-fed flat plate wet press which was used from before 1897.
It is too bad that such important helpful information is not mentioned in the Scott catalog. The rotary press stamps are taller and narrower while flat plate stamps are shorter and wider. Stickney rotary press stamps have horizontal gum breakers, of course a used stamp will not show these.
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10:49:06am
The first Rotary Press stamps of Canada were the Arch and Maple Leaf issue of 1930. Only the 1c,2c,3c and 5c values were printed by rotary press.
The 5c was the only value printed by both flat plate and rotary presses. The balance of the issue was all flat plate. The 1c, 2c, 3c coil stamps were printed on rotary presses.
Roy
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Oops!
The Us column is right above the Canada
Maybe it would have been better to say "Canadian Rotary Press Printed Stamps Question"
I ALWAYS do this when my topic is not USA Philately!
Regards,
ari
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You are getting away from the question, lets get back to the question!
So far two posters state 1897, the other 1930
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Would any SoR member know for sure wether its 1897 or 1930, or maybe some other year?
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The US Bureau of Engraving and Printing started investigating faster methods of printing stamps (at first I think for coils) in 1909 and by 1914 a man by the name of Benjamin Stickney (who worked for the BEP) had invented and tested a roll (web) fed rotary press. The first US rotary press stamps were printed on this machine in 1914 (see image below). If such a machine had been available as early as 1897 I cant imagine why the BEP would have wasted five years inventing the same (BEP was pretty effective 100 years ago). I know this equipment was also sold to several European countries (e.g., Sweden) about the same time.
Thus I would say that a date of 1897 for any other country to have been using a high speed rotary stamp printing machine is very unlikely.
Of course rotary presses for printing newspaper had been around much longer so I suppose it possible someone had developed a rudimentary rotary press that was not an improvement over flat plate printing processes but I could find no specific reports of such a machine.
Link to more information about Stickney and his invention:
https://www.adirondackalmanack.com/2014/ ...
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@banknoteguy
Sorry, the topic was Canada, postage stamps!
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Yes, I saw that this was in a Canada topic. Did you read my response?
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@banknoteguy
Yes I did, I did not see any mention of when Canada first started using a rotary press to print stamps (year)!
Maybe I read it wrong, what year?
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In 1847, Richard Hoe manufactured the first sheet-fed rotary printing press.
In 1897, The American Banknote Company contracted with Canada to use a rotary press to print stamps that were needed in larger quantities. What my posting was clarifying was that early Canadian stamps (post-1897) can exist in both rotary as well as flat plate printings; particularly those issued in large quantities. The small differences in the size of the stamp design can identify the printings. However, Scott catalogs do not mention this situation.
Roy is correct that the first rotary stamps were printed by the Canadian Banknote Company in 1930.
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Terry posted:
"In 1897, The American Banknote Company (ABC) contracted with Canada to use a rotary press to print stamps that were needed in larger quantities."
Do you have a reference for where this statement comes from? ABC definitely printed stamps (along with banknotes) but I can find no reference to them using a rotary printing press to do so. Clearly rotary presses were used for printing newspapers long before such machines were modified (repurposed?) to print stamps. But everything I can find indicates that the first use of rotary presses for printing stamps was 1914 in the U.S. Thus by implication the first use of a rotary press for Canadian (or any other country) needs be after 1914.
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11:19:00am
"However, Scott catalogs do not mention this situation."
And neither do any of the other definitive works on Canadian stamps of the period that I own (Boggs, Jarrett, Holmes) mention a rotary press prior to the 1930 Arch and Maple Leaf issue. Boggs goes into detail about the production of the cylindrical plates, Holmes says "the contract for the printing of stamps expired in 1930 and was awarded to another firm in Ottawa who installed a rotary press for the production of the lower values of the set".
Boggs states "for the first time Stickney rotary presses were used to print the 1c, 2c, 3c and 5c denominations".
The printer for this issue was the British American Bank Note Company.
If you can provide specific references to the use of rotary presses (not wet presses), I would be interested.
Roy
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From the, "THE STORY OF AMERICAN BANK NOTE COMPANY" by WILLIAM H. GRIFFITHS in 1959,
the only reference to rotary presses is in a figure caption -- reproduced below. It says ABC started working on a rotary press in 1905 but not that is was used specifically for stamps (I think most of their business was banknote printing but I could be wrong):
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11:34:57am
I made a decision many years ago that unless the stamps were given separate Scott numbers I was going to stay away from wet/dry printings and rotary/flat plate printings for Canada and the US. It's made collecting a bit simpler except for cases where separate numbers are given - no regrets yet!!
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I do find a reference to an ABC contract with Canada in 1897 but no indication of what kinds of presses were used. From a Wikipedia entry (with no reference to the source of the item):
In 1897, the American Bank Note Company secured the contract to print stamps for Canada, which lasted until 1923. The company's first job was to print a series for the Diamond Jubilee celebrating the 60th year of Queen Victoria and the 30th year of confederation, the first commemorative stamps of Canada. The design was a side-by-side of the Chalon vignette of the young Victoria and the likeness photographed by Alexander Bassano in 1887. The series included 16 denominations ranging from ½¢ to five dollars, a princely sum in those days, and more aimed at collectors than mailers. Only 9,937 of the $4 value were ever sold, and they are rare and expensive today.
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11:47:52am
Interesting quote Jack. For me the hardest denomination to find was the $3, not the $4. That might have nothing to do with rarity and just a fluke!
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"In Canada, the American Bank Note Company, Ottawa (ABNCo) a subsidiary of the American Bank Note Company of New York used a small sheet-fed intaglio recess line engraved wet paper rotary press that utilized single sheets of wetted paper to print the 1897 Victoria Diamond Jubilee Issue. Then in 1907, ABNCo in Ottawa used a bigger sheet-fed rotary press that utilized single sheets of wetted paper to print many one and two cent denominated postage stamps of the 1903 – 1908 Edward VII Issue in a 400 subject format instead of the earlier 200 subject format since these postage stamps were used the most and were the first Canadian postage stamps printed in the billions. This rotary press enabled faster printing and with the larger printing plate size enabled greater production. This rotary printing press was also used to do most of the wet printing of the 1911 – 1925 Admiral Issue. However, to finish the printing process for the single sheet presses a variety of labor intensive processes was still required. The paper needed to be dried so that gum could be applied to the non-printed side. Then the gum had to be dried. These single sheets then had to have perforations in both directions applied by use of two separate perforators and also guillotined to cut the sheets into separate panes. This was all labor intensive and time consuming."
Reference: JOURNAL OF THE CANADIAN PHILATELIC SOCIETY OF GREAT BRITAIN, July 2017.
Innovations by Canadian Stamp Printing Companies CBNCo and BABNCo Revolutionize the Stamp Printing Press, page 147.
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What year were rotary press printed stamps first used?
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re: Rotary Press Printed Stamps Question
A genius invention!
Let me know if you need info on offset or flat plate.
Printing runs in my family...
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re: Rotary Press Printed Stamps Question
Show Topic - Canada.
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re: Rotary Press Printed Stamps Question
To my knowledge, the American Banknote Company (ABNC) which later became the Canadian Banknote Company (CBNC) introduced a rotary type wet press starting in 1897 for Canadian stamps that were needed in larger quantities. However, it was a sheet-fed wet press and it was used in addition to the sheet-fed flat plate wet press which was used from before 1897.
It is too bad that such important helpful information is not mentioned in the Scott catalog. The rotary press stamps are taller and narrower while flat plate stamps are shorter and wider. Stickney rotary press stamps have horizontal gum breakers, of course a used stamp will not show these.
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01 Jun 2025
10:49:06am
re: Rotary Press Printed Stamps Question
The first Rotary Press stamps of Canada were the Arch and Maple Leaf issue of 1930. Only the 1c,2c,3c and 5c values were printed by rotary press.
The 5c was the only value printed by both flat plate and rotary presses. The balance of the issue was all flat plate. The 1c, 2c, 3c coil stamps were printed on rotary presses.
Roy
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re: Rotary Press Printed Stamps Question
Oops!
The Us column is right above the Canada
Maybe it would have been better to say "Canadian Rotary Press Printed Stamps Question"
I ALWAYS do this when my topic is not USA Philately!
Regards,
ari
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re: Rotary Press Printed Stamps Question
You are getting away from the question, lets get back to the question!
So far two posters state 1897, the other 1930
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re: Rotary Press Printed Stamps Question
Would any SoR member know for sure wether its 1897 or 1930, or maybe some other year?
Login to Like
this post
re: Rotary Press Printed Stamps Question
The US Bureau of Engraving and Printing started investigating faster methods of printing stamps (at first I think for coils) in 1909 and by 1914 a man by the name of Benjamin Stickney (who worked for the BEP) had invented and tested a roll (web) fed rotary press. The first US rotary press stamps were printed on this machine in 1914 (see image below). If such a machine had been available as early as 1897 I cant imagine why the BEP would have wasted five years inventing the same (BEP was pretty effective 100 years ago). I know this equipment was also sold to several European countries (e.g., Sweden) about the same time.
Thus I would say that a date of 1897 for any other country to have been using a high speed rotary stamp printing machine is very unlikely.
Of course rotary presses for printing newspaper had been around much longer so I suppose it possible someone had developed a rudimentary rotary press that was not an improvement over flat plate printing processes but I could find no specific reports of such a machine.
Link to more information about Stickney and his invention:
https://www.adirondackalmanack.com/2014/ ...
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re: Rotary Press Printed Stamps Question
@banknoteguy
Sorry, the topic was Canada, postage stamps!
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re: Rotary Press Printed Stamps Question
Yes, I saw that this was in a Canada topic. Did you read my response?
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re: Rotary Press Printed Stamps Question
@banknoteguy
Yes I did, I did not see any mention of when Canada first started using a rotary press to print stamps (year)!
Maybe I read it wrong, what year?
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re: Rotary Press Printed Stamps Question
In 1847, Richard Hoe manufactured the first sheet-fed rotary printing press.
In 1897, The American Banknote Company contracted with Canada to use a rotary press to print stamps that were needed in larger quantities. What my posting was clarifying was that early Canadian stamps (post-1897) can exist in both rotary as well as flat plate printings; particularly those issued in large quantities. The small differences in the size of the stamp design can identify the printings. However, Scott catalogs do not mention this situation.
Roy is correct that the first rotary stamps were printed by the Canadian Banknote Company in 1930.
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re: Rotary Press Printed Stamps Question
Terry posted:
"In 1897, The American Banknote Company (ABC) contracted with Canada to use a rotary press to print stamps that were needed in larger quantities."
Do you have a reference for where this statement comes from? ABC definitely printed stamps (along with banknotes) but I can find no reference to them using a rotary printing press to do so. Clearly rotary presses were used for printing newspapers long before such machines were modified (repurposed?) to print stamps. But everything I can find indicates that the first use of rotary presses for printing stamps was 1914 in the U.S. Thus by implication the first use of a rotary press for Canadian (or any other country) needs be after 1914.
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03 Jun 2025
11:19:00am
re: Rotary Press Printed Stamps Question
"However, Scott catalogs do not mention this situation."
And neither do any of the other definitive works on Canadian stamps of the period that I own (Boggs, Jarrett, Holmes) mention a rotary press prior to the 1930 Arch and Maple Leaf issue. Boggs goes into detail about the production of the cylindrical plates, Holmes says "the contract for the printing of stamps expired in 1930 and was awarded to another firm in Ottawa who installed a rotary press for the production of the lower values of the set".
Boggs states "for the first time Stickney rotary presses were used to print the 1c, 2c, 3c and 5c denominations".
The printer for this issue was the British American Bank Note Company.
If you can provide specific references to the use of rotary presses (not wet presses), I would be interested.
Roy
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re: Rotary Press Printed Stamps Question
From the, "THE STORY OF AMERICAN BANK NOTE COMPANY" by WILLIAM H. GRIFFITHS in 1959,
the only reference to rotary presses is in a figure caption -- reproduced below. It says ABC started working on a rotary press in 1905 but not that is was used specifically for stamps (I think most of their business was banknote printing but I could be wrong):
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Back when I had a bunch! I think, therefore I am - I think! Descartes, sort of!
03 Jun 2025
11:34:57am
re: Rotary Press Printed Stamps Question
I made a decision many years ago that unless the stamps were given separate Scott numbers I was going to stay away from wet/dry printings and rotary/flat plate printings for Canada and the US. It's made collecting a bit simpler except for cases where separate numbers are given - no regrets yet!!
Login to Like
this post
re: Rotary Press Printed Stamps Question
I do find a reference to an ABC contract with Canada in 1897 but no indication of what kinds of presses were used. From a Wikipedia entry (with no reference to the source of the item):
In 1897, the American Bank Note Company secured the contract to print stamps for Canada, which lasted until 1923. The company's first job was to print a series for the Diamond Jubilee celebrating the 60th year of Queen Victoria and the 30th year of confederation, the first commemorative stamps of Canada. The design was a side-by-side of the Chalon vignette of the young Victoria and the likeness photographed by Alexander Bassano in 1887. The series included 16 denominations ranging from ½¢ to five dollars, a princely sum in those days, and more aimed at collectors than mailers. Only 9,937 of the $4 value were ever sold, and they are rare and expensive today.
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Back when I had a bunch! I think, therefore I am - I think! Descartes, sort of!
03 Jun 2025
11:47:52am
re: Rotary Press Printed Stamps Question
Interesting quote Jack. For me the hardest denomination to find was the $3, not the $4. That might have nothing to do with rarity and just a fluke!
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re: Rotary Press Printed Stamps Question
"In Canada, the American Bank Note Company, Ottawa (ABNCo) a subsidiary of the American Bank Note Company of New York used a small sheet-fed intaglio recess line engraved wet paper rotary press that utilized single sheets of wetted paper to print the 1897 Victoria Diamond Jubilee Issue. Then in 1907, ABNCo in Ottawa used a bigger sheet-fed rotary press that utilized single sheets of wetted paper to print many one and two cent denominated postage stamps of the 1903 – 1908 Edward VII Issue in a 400 subject format instead of the earlier 200 subject format since these postage stamps were used the most and were the first Canadian postage stamps printed in the billions. This rotary press enabled faster printing and with the larger printing plate size enabled greater production. This rotary printing press was also used to do most of the wet printing of the 1911 – 1925 Admiral Issue. However, to finish the printing process for the single sheet presses a variety of labor intensive processes was still required. The paper needed to be dried so that gum could be applied to the non-printed side. Then the gum had to be dried. These single sheets then had to have perforations in both directions applied by use of two separate perforators and also guillotined to cut the sheets into separate panes. This was all labor intensive and time consuming."
Reference: JOURNAL OF THE CANADIAN PHILATELIC SOCIETY OF GREAT BRITAIN, July 2017.
Innovations by Canadian Stamp Printing Companies CBNCo and BABNCo Revolutionize the Stamp Printing Press, page 147.
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