Discussion - Member to Member Sales - Research Center
Discussion - Member to Member Sales - Research Center
New to the game of bisect collecting interest it seems that I have jumped off the 3 meter high dive into the deep end and I cant even swim yet. This of course is only metaphorically speaking. I do have some limited knowledge about bisects or I wouldn't have purchased the lot it came in besides there are a few other stamps in the same lot that I wanted too.
The first question raised in the post by some of you in the other thread was is it real or not? Believe me I asked myself the same question before pulling the trigger ( pun intended ) on the lot it came in. I spend more at McDonald's to feed my family of 4 than I did on this lot of stamps besides my kids can live with a few more home cooked meals and a few less happy meals.
The #73 good old Blackjack isn't a really valuable stamp by itself in used condition 70 shekels in VF80. This is of course if one believes everything written in the Scott 2025 U.S. Specialized Catalog. News flash everyone there is a contradiction/mistake/error in the catalog. The 70 shekel figure is found in the values by grade section of the catalog. Now if one looks at the section that discusses the basic and more detailed information about the good old Blackjack the value listed is 75 shekels. Add a bisect to the equation it now becomes worth 4 figures only if it is attached to a cover.
Why is it only assigned this value if it is attached to the cover? It doesn't take an astronaut to figure out that there is always the possibility that they do exist soaked off of the cover in used conditions of varying degrees. They have to exist. Why not? Hundreds, Thousands, Millions of them were issued and used to the end they were made for. It is because of this reason. Economy of space in a stamp album I believe is the #1 reason. Otherwise so many middle class and poor people in the world wouldn't collect stamps it would be a wealthy persons game only.
What am I to do with it? Have an opinion rendered by an expertise servicer? Throw it in the trash as a fake like some people imply? Donate to a reference collection such as the APS as genuine or fake? I choose none of the above. I'll keep it as my property, enjoy it in my collection and share it when or wherever I feel like doing so of my own Freewill with all whom would be interested in seeing it.
I have no reason to believe that it isn't genuine. It has all of the signs of a used stamp removed by soaking it off of the cover: No gum, Fading ink color, pulled, short, nibbled, missing perforations, staining, foxing etc... these are faults indicative of a stamp that is over a 150 years old . I also see no evidence of faked perforations, erased or even a faked cancellation.
I'm even more inclined to believe that it is genuine for one reason and one reason only the bisected stamp, stamp cut in half looks like it was scissor cut which is where most of the foxing has occurred with this stamp and the cut isn't perfectly straight. This could've been done at the post office by the clerk, or the original owner where the pair was separated from the sheet of stamps or it quite possibly could've been faked any years later. None of us will ever really know we aren't that old and neither are the so called experts alive today.
Another reason why I'm thoroughly convinced that it is genuine is that there is no evidence of repair or resecting to different stamps to make a pair and then cut a left bisect. Any glue or gum used for that purpose on paper will stain the paper. That is art class 101 experience and wood shop 101 experience as well. Glues as they age yellow or turn brown. There is no evidence of that here.
Another reason is perforations. Evidence of faked perforations is the holes are cut too cleanly with none of the paper fibers visible. In other words the holes are too perfect. This is auto shop and machine shop 101 and how a paper gasket, or cork gasket is cut with a gasket hole punch set to make the bolt holes in the gasket paper. The same principle applies here. As the cutting tool or pins as is the case with making perforations the tool steel gets deformed, bends eventually breaking as they are used. Those that don't believe me and fancy themselves some sort of handiperson go have a look at a cold chisel or punch that hasn't been dressed or sharpened in a very long time of look at the edge of your kitchen knife that gets just tossed in a drawer and is as sharp as a spoon. Tools get dull and break from prolonged normal use.
Or the holes look like a mouse was chewing at the paper and the round holes aren't even the slightest bit oval from normal use but look rouletted like a seamstress cut the paper with plinking shears. Then there are the examples of stamps that the holes are as crooked as a politician with no semblance of being in a straight line.
There is none of the things that are described in the previous 2 paragraphs that would lead me to believe that it has been faked or repaired.
I could go on and on about the things I look for when I determine if a stamp or stamps are genuine. This is especially true when I have a stamp that I determine is worthy of being sent in to an expertise service. Hey what do I know? I haven't even discussed the 3 different types of the old Blackjack's. Which by the way mine is a Type I.
I have to go for now and will later on post some better pictures of the front and back of the stamp by itself.
Jeremy
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04:16:09pm
It's a great looking stamp, I just wish it was still on cover!! Good luck. I'll post a picture of my one and only bisect later, NS #3a, a diagonal bisect! I paid about $150 for it and the seller claims (in writing, which means little) it to be a genuine bisect on piece. It has a huge value if real but I've always had my doubts. I should have it certified but I don't want the hassle - let the next owner worry about it. It really appears to be tied to the piece by it's postmark but that's easy to fake. The postmark is from my home county and really looks genuine when compared to others I have from the same post office! I can always hope!!!
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Harvey,
I agree it is a great looking stamp and I too wish it was on the cover. I'm also think the same way you are. Let the next owner worry about it but that kind of thinking will place my son in a quandary later on in life when or if he tries to sell it. All of the low ball offers or being brow beaten into believing that it is not what it is. That is why I am so keen to teach him the hobby so he will know what to look for on his own and make an informed decision.
Jeremy
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Here's an eBay auction that's very interesting:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/144158657118
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@ Ernie -
Looks faked to me.
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@musicman
Please tell us the reason(s) "Looks faked to me."?
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Musician,
I'd like to know too. I suspect it is because of the comments on the certificate from the expert committee. Stating that it is on a cover which pen cancels weren't used. But that is my best scientific wild arse guess at it. The bisect looks scissor cut to me.
Jeremy
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The stamp and a half may have been used from a small post office that ran out of 3 cent stamps. Without it being on cover there is no possibility of further research. My Scott catalog gives a vertical bisect plus one stamp on cover at $3500.
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I was referring to the ebay auction link posted here regarding the on-cover example.
It looks as if the stamps were added after the cancel.
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Somewhat meaningless speculations.
Bi-sect stamps can only be expertised on letters or at least on piece.
If it is not like that,it´s just a stamp connected with a part of a second one.
Looks nice,but is no bi-sect by definition.
By evaluation it will be less valuable,than a complete pair of stamps.
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10:20:17am
I agree but also disagree (?). It's of small value but I think it's an interesting novelty! It would go nicely in a collection and lets us use our imagination!! For example I bought a set of imperforate small Queens that were almost certainly jumbos with the perfs trimmed. Both myself and the seller knew that so the price was very low. I showed them to a local dealer and he said that the value was obviously very low but they added real interest to the page!
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01:42:01pm
Let's be realistic!
You can make one of these "bisects" off cover from any pair of stamps with a pair of scissors!
Toning on the cut edge? The stamps were issued c1870. So even if it was done 100 years ago, that's 55 years for it to end up with a "clever" collector or dealer and still have 100 years to "age".
("unrecorded bisect on piece" created April 10, 1:35pm )
Roy
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As previously mentioned, Caveat Emptor is a good idea! Usually if it is too good to be true, it is! A fool and his money are soon parted and I been a victim or that also.
Mike
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@CapeStampMan
Come now I do not believe your were ever a fool!
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03:35:18pm
This is a stamp that I recently acquired and have it posted in the other sub forum of General Philatelic discussion. It is quite possibly the most intriguing stamp I own. At least for the moment it is until something else comes along.
New to the game of bisect collecting interest it seems that I have jumped off the 3 meter high dive into the deep end and I cant even swim yet. This of course is only metaphorically speaking. I do have some limited knowledge about bisects or I wouldn't have purchased the lot it came in besides there are a few other stamps in the same lot that I wanted too.
The first question raised in the post by some of you in the other thread was is it real or not? Believe me I asked myself the same question before pulling the trigger ( pun intended ) on the lot it came in. I spend more at McDonald's to feed my family of 4 than I did on this lot of stamps besides my kids can live with a few more home cooked meals and a few less happy meals.
The #73 good old Blackjack isn't a really valuable stamp by itself in used condition 70 shekels in VF80. This is of course if one believes everything written in the Scott 2025 U.S. Specialized Catalog. News flash everyone there is a contradiction/mistake/error in the catalog. The 70 shekel figure is found in the values by grade section of the catalog. Now if one looks at the section that discusses the basic and more detailed information about the good old Blackjack the value listed is 75 shekels. Add a bisect to the equation it now becomes worth 4 figures only if it is attached to a cover.
Why is it only assigned this value if it is attached to the cover? It doesn't take an astronaut to figure out that there is always the possibility that they do exist soaked off of the cover in used conditions of varying degrees. They have to exist. Why not? Hundreds, Thousands, Millions of them were issued and used to the end they were made for. It is because of this reason. Economy of space in a stamp album I believe is the #1 reason. Otherwise so many middle class and poor people in the world wouldn't collect stamps it would be a wealthy persons game only.
What am I to do with it? Have an opinion rendered by an expertise servicer? Throw it in the trash as a fake like some people imply? Donate to a reference collection such as the APS as genuine or fake? I choose none of the above. I'll keep it as my property, enjoy it in my collection and share it when or wherever I feel like doing so of my own Freewill with all whom would be interested in seeing it.
I have no reason to believe that it isn't genuine. It has all of the signs of a used stamp removed by soaking it off of the cover: No gum, Fading ink color, pulled, short, nibbled, missing perforations, staining, foxing etc... these are faults indicative of a stamp that is over a 150 years old . I also see no evidence of faked perforations, erased or even a faked cancellation.
I'm even more inclined to believe that it is genuine for one reason and one reason only the bisected stamp, stamp cut in half looks like it was scissor cut which is where most of the foxing has occurred with this stamp and the cut isn't perfectly straight. This could've been done at the post office by the clerk, or the original owner where the pair was separated from the sheet of stamps or it quite possibly could've been faked any years later. None of us will ever really know we aren't that old and neither are the so called experts alive today.
Another reason why I'm thoroughly convinced that it is genuine is that there is no evidence of repair or resecting to different stamps to make a pair and then cut a left bisect. Any glue or gum used for that purpose on paper will stain the paper. That is art class 101 experience and wood shop 101 experience as well. Glues as they age yellow or turn brown. There is no evidence of that here.
Another reason is perforations. Evidence of faked perforations is the holes are cut too cleanly with none of the paper fibers visible. In other words the holes are too perfect. This is auto shop and machine shop 101 and how a paper gasket, or cork gasket is cut with a gasket hole punch set to make the bolt holes in the gasket paper. The same principle applies here. As the cutting tool or pins as is the case with making perforations the tool steel gets deformed, bends eventually breaking as they are used. Those that don't believe me and fancy themselves some sort of handiperson go have a look at a cold chisel or punch that hasn't been dressed or sharpened in a very long time of look at the edge of your kitchen knife that gets just tossed in a drawer and is as sharp as a spoon. Tools get dull and break from prolonged normal use.
Or the holes look like a mouse was chewing at the paper and the round holes aren't even the slightest bit oval from normal use but look rouletted like a seamstress cut the paper with plinking shears. Then there are the examples of stamps that the holes are as crooked as a politician with no semblance of being in a straight line.
There is none of the things that are described in the previous 2 paragraphs that would lead me to believe that it has been faked or repaired.
I could go on and on about the things I look for when I determine if a stamp or stamps are genuine. This is especially true when I have a stamp that I determine is worthy of being sent in to an expertise service. Hey what do I know? I haven't even discussed the 3 different types of the old Blackjack's. Which by the way mine is a Type I.
I have to go for now and will later on post some better pictures of the front and back of the stamp by itself.
Jeremy
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This is my diabetic cat OBI! I think, therefore I am - I think! Descartes, sort of!
09 Apr 2025
04:16:09pm
re: #73 Vertical Bisect
It's a great looking stamp, I just wish it was still on cover!! Good luck. I'll post a picture of my one and only bisect later, NS #3a, a diagonal bisect! I paid about $150 for it and the seller claims (in writing, which means little) it to be a genuine bisect on piece. It has a huge value if real but I've always had my doubts. I should have it certified but I don't want the hassle - let the next owner worry about it. It really appears to be tied to the piece by it's postmark but that's easy to fake. The postmark is from my home county and really looks genuine when compared to others I have from the same post office! I can always hope!!!
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04:42:38pm
re: #73 Vertical Bisect
Harvey,
I agree it is a great looking stamp and I too wish it was on the cover. I'm also think the same way you are. Let the next owner worry about it but that kind of thinking will place my son in a quandary later on in life when or if he tries to sell it. All of the low ball offers or being brow beaten into believing that it is not what it is. That is why I am so keen to teach him the hobby so he will know what to look for on his own and make an informed decision.
Jeremy
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re: #73 Vertical Bisect
Here's an eBay auction that's very interesting:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/144158657118
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re: #73 Vertical Bisect
@ Ernie -
Looks faked to me.
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06:24:16pm
re: #73 Vertical Bisect
@musicman
Please tell us the reason(s) "Looks faked to me."?
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08:13:17pm
re: #73 Vertical Bisect
Musician,
I'd like to know too. I suspect it is because of the comments on the certificate from the expert committee. Stating that it is on a cover which pen cancels weren't used. But that is my best scientific wild arse guess at it. The bisect looks scissor cut to me.
Jeremy
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re: #73 Vertical Bisect
The stamp and a half may have been used from a small post office that ran out of 3 cent stamps. Without it being on cover there is no possibility of further research. My Scott catalog gives a vertical bisect plus one stamp on cover at $3500.
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re: #73 Vertical Bisect
I was referring to the ebay auction link posted here regarding the on-cover example.
It looks as if the stamps were added after the cancel.
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09:52:04am
re: #73 Vertical Bisect
Somewhat meaningless speculations.
Bi-sect stamps can only be expertised on letters or at least on piece.
If it is not like that,it´s just a stamp connected with a part of a second one.
Looks nice,but is no bi-sect by definition.
By evaluation it will be less valuable,than a complete pair of stamps.
Login to Like
this post
This is my diabetic cat OBI! I think, therefore I am - I think! Descartes, sort of!
10 Apr 2025
10:20:17am
re: #73 Vertical Bisect
I agree but also disagree (?). It's of small value but I think it's an interesting novelty! It would go nicely in a collection and lets us use our imagination!! For example I bought a set of imperforate small Queens that were almost certainly jumbos with the perfs trimmed. Both myself and the seller knew that so the price was very low. I showed them to a local dealer and he said that the value was obviously very low but they added real interest to the page!
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BuckaCover.com - 80,000 covers priced 60c to $1.50 - Easy browsing 500 categories
10 Apr 2025
01:42:01pm
re: #73 Vertical Bisect
Let's be realistic!
You can make one of these "bisects" off cover from any pair of stamps with a pair of scissors!
Toning on the cut edge? The stamps were issued c1870. So even if it was done 100 years ago, that's 55 years for it to end up with a "clever" collector or dealer and still have 100 years to "age".
("unrecorded bisect on piece" created April 10, 1:35pm )
Roy
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re: #73 Vertical Bisect
As previously mentioned, Caveat Emptor is a good idea! Usually if it is too good to be true, it is! A fool and his money are soon parted and I been a victim or that also.
Mike
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07:01:25pm
re: #73 Vertical Bisect
@CapeStampMan
Come now I do not believe your were ever a fool!
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