Discussion - Member to Member Sales - Research Center
Discussion - Member to Member Sales - Research Center
It appears to be filled out but is not signed by the U.S. Storekeeper and Gauger?
My question is in the state it's in now would it be consider mint, or used?
If the soR expert(s) need more scans let me know?
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I assume the red type is by the distiller or his agent; if so, that changes it from mint, which is intended to represent the document EXACTLY as issued, without any changes along the way, whether by humans or acts of God.
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@amsd
I'm not an expert on this stamp in question whether it's mint or used, that why I asked for help!
Now for my take on this action (again just my thinking what the status is), "It appears to be filled out but is not signed by the U.S. Storekeeper and Gauger?" no tax was ever collected in any form, so it's not used. It's preprinted so it's not mint. So I think it's possible that its unique (not mint, not used as the Govertment never SIGNED IT)!
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I would say mint since it hasn't been used yet to pay a specific tax.
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@smauggie
Thank you!
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Antonio,
is the RED text filled in by someone, something, other than the Printer? if so, that would make it something other than mint.
i'm extrapolating usage from stamps to revenues, so I don't feel on particularly solid footing
David
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MINT means as originally printed;
The originally- printed document was then OVERPRINTED with the merchant's information to be used as a tax-collection document.
This is not mint, but also was not ultimately USED for its intended use.
Therefore, even though it never reached its intended life's completion, it cannot be considered mint unless it is in ORIGINAL condition from the ORIGINAL printer.
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@Everyone
I have never sold a stamp, and do not intend to now.
But for just kicks how would you describe it?
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Internal revenue distilled spirits tax revenue stamp - good for 3 gallons.
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NY State revenue for liquor bottles. Fleischmann would put the larger portion (case stamp) on the outside of the box and then they would cut each stamped strip and then put them over and across the top of each bottle in the box. Liquor used to be sold in "fifths" and there are five strips there..... wait, but that doesn't equal three gallons.
I like musicman's description, "mint sheet overprinted by distiller, unused."
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I might be able to look it up when I'm home in Michigan, but I'm in Pennsylvania until Friday.
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@Everyone
This instrument is not a state revenue, it is a federal govt. tax paid instrument!
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Correct on both counts - a federal revenue stamp printed by the federal government to be used as a tax revenue 'stamp' by a state.
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I thought this was a NY state revenue stamp. Being the nerd that I am, I've been reading up on this. During the 19th century the federal government levied excise taxes on distilled spirits. This was a major source of revenue for the federal government. I have been under the misconception that all "sin taxes" were a state deal. The 16th amendment in 1913 opened the door for the federal income tax, which then paved the way for prohibition. Prohibition would never have happened had the government not figured out they could tax personal incomes. I wish we had a better scan of the item.
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In order for this to be “mint” it would need to have all 24 strips attached along with the Case Stamp.
So, is this used, possibly. But given that the “case Stamp” is still attached it is doubtful. More than likely the stamps were removed by a collector so they would fit into a book or for some other reason.
Description - Bonded Warehouse Tax Stamp for 3 Gallons of liquor bottled in pints with the Case Stamp and 5 of the 24 bottle strips still attached.
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@Revstampman,
So the case held pint bottles and not "fifths"?? That makes so much more sense. There are 8 pints to a gallon, 8 pints x 3 gallons = 24 strips. Now THAT makes sense. Imperial measurements at work.
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@amsd
I see it the same as a preprinted postal card that was never used. I would call it mint. I guess it is just a difference of opinion.
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@ernieinjax
Reference your message: 25 Mar 2025 12:30:39pm
"I wish we had a better scan of the item."
This is a large document, too big for my scanner, which part of the document in question do you whish a better scan of?
I will try to scan the part you wish!
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@1899
All good. Don't worry about it.
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I have this rather large document from the Act of March 3, 1897, series 1911, for tax paid spirits.
It appears to be filled out but is not signed by the U.S. Storekeeper and Gauger?
My question is in the state it's in now would it be consider mint, or used?
If the soR expert(s) need more scans let me know?
1 Member
likes this post.
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Auctions
re: Need Help from the Sor Experts
I assume the red type is by the distiller or his agent; if so, that changes it from mint, which is intended to represent the document EXACTLY as issued, without any changes along the way, whether by humans or acts of God.
Login to Like
this post
re: Need Help from the Sor Experts
@amsd
I'm not an expert on this stamp in question whether it's mint or used, that why I asked for help!
Now for my take on this action (again just my thinking what the status is), "It appears to be filled out but is not signed by the U.S. Storekeeper and Gauger?" no tax was ever collected in any form, so it's not used. It's preprinted so it's not mint. So I think it's possible that its unique (not mint, not used as the Govertment never SIGNED IT)!
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re: Need Help from the Sor Experts
I would say mint since it hasn't been used yet to pay a specific tax.
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re: Need Help from the Sor Experts
@smauggie
Thank you!
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Auctions
re: Need Help from the Sor Experts
Antonio,
is the RED text filled in by someone, something, other than the Printer? if so, that would make it something other than mint.
i'm extrapolating usage from stamps to revenues, so I don't feel on particularly solid footing
David
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this post
re: Need Help from the Sor Experts
MINT means as originally printed;
The originally- printed document was then OVERPRINTED with the merchant's information to be used as a tax-collection document.
This is not mint, but also was not ultimately USED for its intended use.
Therefore, even though it never reached its intended life's completion, it cannot be considered mint unless it is in ORIGINAL condition from the ORIGINAL printer.
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re: Need Help from the Sor Experts
@Everyone
I have never sold a stamp, and do not intend to now.
But for just kicks how would you describe it?
Login to Like
this post
re: Need Help from the Sor Experts
Internal revenue distilled spirits tax revenue stamp - good for 3 gallons.
1 Member
likes this post.
Login to Like.
re: Need Help from the Sor Experts
NY State revenue for liquor bottles. Fleischmann would put the larger portion (case stamp) on the outside of the box and then they would cut each stamped strip and then put them over and across the top of each bottle in the box. Liquor used to be sold in "fifths" and there are five strips there..... wait, but that doesn't equal three gallons.
I like musicman's description, "mint sheet overprinted by distiller, unused."
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re: Need Help from the Sor Experts
I might be able to look it up when I'm home in Michigan, but I'm in Pennsylvania until Friday.
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this post
re: Need Help from the Sor Experts
@Everyone
This instrument is not a state revenue, it is a federal govt. tax paid instrument!
Login to Like
this post
re: Need Help from the Sor Experts
Correct on both counts - a federal revenue stamp printed by the federal government to be used as a tax revenue 'stamp' by a state.
Login to Like
this post
re: Need Help from the Sor Experts
I thought this was a NY state revenue stamp. Being the nerd that I am, I've been reading up on this. During the 19th century the federal government levied excise taxes on distilled spirits. This was a major source of revenue for the federal government. I have been under the misconception that all "sin taxes" were a state deal. The 16th amendment in 1913 opened the door for the federal income tax, which then paved the way for prohibition. Prohibition would never have happened had the government not figured out they could tax personal incomes. I wish we had a better scan of the item.
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01:27:29pm
re: Need Help from the Sor Experts
In order for this to be “mint” it would need to have all 24 strips attached along with the Case Stamp.
So, is this used, possibly. But given that the “case Stamp” is still attached it is doubtful. More than likely the stamps were removed by a collector so they would fit into a book or for some other reason.
Description - Bonded Warehouse Tax Stamp for 3 Gallons of liquor bottled in pints with the Case Stamp and 5 of the 24 bottle strips still attached.
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re: Need Help from the Sor Experts
@Revstampman,
So the case held pint bottles and not "fifths"?? That makes so much more sense. There are 8 pints to a gallon, 8 pints x 3 gallons = 24 strips. Now THAT makes sense. Imperial measurements at work.
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re: Need Help from the Sor Experts
@amsd
I see it the same as a preprinted postal card that was never used. I would call it mint. I guess it is just a difference of opinion.
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re: Need Help from the Sor Experts
@ernieinjax
Reference your message: 25 Mar 2025 12:30:39pm
"I wish we had a better scan of the item."
This is a large document, too big for my scanner, which part of the document in question do you whish a better scan of?
I will try to scan the part you wish!
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re: Need Help from the Sor Experts
@1899
All good. Don't worry about it.
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