Discussion - Member to Member Sales - Research Center
Discussion - Member to Member Sales - Research Center
To me it looks like it was embossed with a notary republic seal and not necessarily cut.
Have any of you come across something like this before? If so where can I find out more information about such cancels?
Jeremy
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05:55:00pm
Sorry, I just deleted my response. I thought you were asking about the method of separating the stamps. It's that odd almost mask like design shown from the back view. I have never seen anything like that before - very odd!!
EDIT: Is the C C C on the front possibly connected to the C C C in the impressed design - possibly a company logo of some sort? Is it possible to figure out what is in the circular parts around the central design?
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I presume that it is a possibility that the hand written manuscript cancel on the front of the stamp correlates to the embossed seal from something similar to a public notary seal. But I don't know for sure.
Jeremy
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I think it could be a corporate seal added to a document over the top of the stamp.
If you can use magnification to make out the two years, you would have some fodder for a search. I can't quite make sense of the chartered and reorganized dates.
If it said 1836, that would correspond to the initial founding of the Cleveland, Columbus and Cincinnati Railroad. By the time this was used, though, it was known as the Cleveland, Cincinnati, Chicago and St. Louis Railway. I think that's a wild goose chase.
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Interesting discussion - first time seeing a stamp get embossed along with the envelope carrying it.
Thanks for showing it!
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It's a pleasure. I was puzzled when I first noticed in the lot that I won on eBay. It wasn't shown in the pictures of that lot because there where so many other stamps it was buried underneath. So it is a pleasant surprise to find something so unique and interesting. I posted on the stamp community forum also and some of the members on that forum have said in posts that it isn't cut cancel at all because the paper wasn't cut though at all just as CJD has. It is a manuscript and a seal cancel and the first one I've ever seen. I thought that it would only be right to share it here.
Since I have a good sunny day I'll see if I can verify the date on the seal and the manuscript cancel with the ambient light and my 30x magnifying lope. That will be my day of fly speck Philately.
That didn't take long at all. The seal date is 1866 and the manuscript cancel date is 11/21/1911. Not to worry though I have plenty of other stamps to fly speck from the same lot. Whomever removed this stamp from the document defiantly took great care in doing so. Because it is in remarkable shape.
Jeremy
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Sorry, but I think the date cancel on R164 can't be 1911, perhaps it could be Nov 11 1898, or 1899, or 1900, or 1901, or 1902, is my guess.
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Nope it is 1911 plain as day. None of us will never know how long it was in a secretary's desk before it used for the purpose it was and I am not going to debate with anyone about a stamp and what someone thinks it should be. After all it is just a stamp and nothing is personal.
Does anyone have something like I do or on a document with a stamp to share in this thread. Let's see them!
Jeremy
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This stamp has a hook in me to find out as much as I can about the embossed seal cancel and I am coming up short with answers. That is because I am not a cancel fly speaker in general for revenue stamps unless it is a really unique one and I have one now that has me stumped.
Does anyone here have a picture of the CCC seal besides my photo of the stamp with possibly a document with the seal on it? Unfortunately the stamp that I have doesn't have the original document which was likely a bond or stock certificate. Which begs another question was the seal used at the time issuance? Or cashing in the bond or certificate which I presume would explain the use of a revenue stamp?
What do you smart people know?
Jeremy
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@Sarge
I have been a collector of the 1898 Series revenue stamps for better than 30 years, including cancel research. There are times when I cannot find information on a cancel. What I do is put the stamp in my stock book on a special page for unknowns. I'll go back every few week and try again, sometimes I get lucky and some times I don't.
You will sooner or later realize the stamp in question cannot be dated 1911.
Good luck with your search, hope the answer appears soon.
If you are interested in the 1898 Series revenue stamps (1898-1902) go over (unless you already have) and cue up "1898Revenues" site!
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Thank you for the tip. I'll put it down for a while and get back to it later otherwise it'll drive me crazy.
Jeremy
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I took another look at the manuscript cancel today in better light and higher magnification. The date is 1900 not 1911. It has very sloppy zeros that are not closed at the top and bottom of the numerals and the age of the stamp doesn't help with identifying things like this. Overall the mission has been accomplished and the stamp has a home in my fancy cancel study.
Thank you for the tips 1899.
Jeremy
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@Sarge
Thank you.
If you need anymore 1898 series revenues cancels help just ask. I've identified hundreds of them!
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1899 I will take you up on that offer at sometime I'm sure. In the same lot that the stamp that has been the topic of this thread are 3 more of the 1898 battleship series. The RB series to be to the point and of course they aren't in the best shape but have very interesting manuscript and hand stamp cancels. I'll get to them later I have bigger fish to fry right now. Such as what I am going to do with the hundreds of stamps from the lot that I don't have a home need for but some are quite valuable and I really don't want them and would consider as trading material. I'll post a thread later in the Let's Trade Stamps sub forum.
Jeremy
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@Sarge
For any of the RB Battleships there is an outstanding web site, thousands cancells there and very easy to search.
Go to "Battleship Revenues", there you will find a ton of information for cancels and other related things!
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05:24:15pm
I recently came across this in a large lot I won on eBay a couple of weeks ago. I didn't give any thought until I arrived to the task of identifying the BOB material that is in the lot. Then I realized that this is far different than any cut cancel that I've seen before. It's definitely unique to me and will have a home in my fancy cancel study collection.
To me it looks like it was embossed with a notary republic seal and not necessarily cut.
Have any of you come across something like this before? If so where can I find out more information about such cancels?
Jeremy
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This is my diabetic cat OBI! I think, therefore I am - I think! Descartes, sort of!
15 Feb 2025
05:55:00pm
re: R164 with an embossed cut cancel?
Sorry, I just deleted my response. I thought you were asking about the method of separating the stamps. It's that odd almost mask like design shown from the back view. I have never seen anything like that before - very odd!!
EDIT: Is the C C C on the front possibly connected to the C C C in the impressed design - possibly a company logo of some sort? Is it possible to figure out what is in the circular parts around the central design?
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Login to Like.
06:36:39pm
re: R164 with an embossed cut cancel?
I presume that it is a possibility that the hand written manuscript cancel on the front of the stamp correlates to the embossed seal from something similar to a public notary seal. But I don't know for sure.
Jeremy
2 Members
like this post.
Login to Like.
re: R164 with an embossed cut cancel?
I think it could be a corporate seal added to a document over the top of the stamp.
If you can use magnification to make out the two years, you would have some fodder for a search. I can't quite make sense of the chartered and reorganized dates.
If it said 1836, that would correspond to the initial founding of the Cleveland, Columbus and Cincinnati Railroad. By the time this was used, though, it was known as the Cleveland, Cincinnati, Chicago and St. Louis Railway. I think that's a wild goose chase.
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re: R164 with an embossed cut cancel?
Interesting discussion - first time seeing a stamp get embossed along with the envelope carrying it.
Thanks for showing it!
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01:31:24pm
re: R164 with an embossed cut cancel?
It's a pleasure. I was puzzled when I first noticed in the lot that I won on eBay. It wasn't shown in the pictures of that lot because there where so many other stamps it was buried underneath. So it is a pleasant surprise to find something so unique and interesting. I posted on the stamp community forum also and some of the members on that forum have said in posts that it isn't cut cancel at all because the paper wasn't cut though at all just as CJD has. It is a manuscript and a seal cancel and the first one I've ever seen. I thought that it would only be right to share it here.
Since I have a good sunny day I'll see if I can verify the date on the seal and the manuscript cancel with the ambient light and my 30x magnifying lope. That will be my day of fly speck Philately.
That didn't take long at all. The seal date is 1866 and the manuscript cancel date is 11/21/1911. Not to worry though I have plenty of other stamps to fly speck from the same lot. Whomever removed this stamp from the document defiantly took great care in doing so. Because it is in remarkable shape.
Jeremy
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03:57:10pm
re: R164 with an embossed cut cancel?
Sorry, but I think the date cancel on R164 can't be 1911, perhaps it could be Nov 11 1898, or 1899, or 1900, or 1901, or 1902, is my guess.
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08:52:15pm
re: R164 with an embossed cut cancel?
Nope it is 1911 plain as day. None of us will never know how long it was in a secretary's desk before it used for the purpose it was and I am not going to debate with anyone about a stamp and what someone thinks it should be. After all it is just a stamp and nothing is personal.
Does anyone have something like I do or on a document with a stamp to share in this thread. Let's see them!
Jeremy
2 Members
like this post.
Login to Like.
11:12:38am
re: R164 with an embossed cut cancel?
This stamp has a hook in me to find out as much as I can about the embossed seal cancel and I am coming up short with answers. That is because I am not a cancel fly speaker in general for revenue stamps unless it is a really unique one and I have one now that has me stumped.
Does anyone here have a picture of the CCC seal besides my photo of the stamp with possibly a document with the seal on it? Unfortunately the stamp that I have doesn't have the original document which was likely a bond or stock certificate. Which begs another question was the seal used at the time issuance? Or cashing in the bond or certificate which I presume would explain the use of a revenue stamp?
What do you smart people know?
Jeremy
2 Members
like this post.
Login to Like.
01:40:43pm
re: R164 with an embossed cut cancel?
@Sarge
I have been a collector of the 1898 Series revenue stamps for better than 30 years, including cancel research. There are times when I cannot find information on a cancel. What I do is put the stamp in my stock book on a special page for unknowns. I'll go back every few week and try again, sometimes I get lucky and some times I don't.
You will sooner or later realize the stamp in question cannot be dated 1911.
Good luck with your search, hope the answer appears soon.
If you are interested in the 1898 Series revenue stamps (1898-1902) go over (unless you already have) and cue up "1898Revenues" site!
1 Member
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Login to Like.
09:53:46pm
re: R164 with an embossed cut cancel?
Thank you for the tip. I'll put it down for a while and get back to it later otherwise it'll drive me crazy.
Jeremy
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this post
07:35:53pm
re: R164 with an embossed cut cancel?
I took another look at the manuscript cancel today in better light and higher magnification. The date is 1900 not 1911. It has very sloppy zeros that are not closed at the top and bottom of the numerals and the age of the stamp doesn't help with identifying things like this. Overall the mission has been accomplished and the stamp has a home in my fancy cancel study.
Thank you for the tips 1899.
Jeremy
Login to Like
this post
07:47:33pm
re: R164 with an embossed cut cancel?
@Sarge
Thank you.
If you need anymore 1898 series revenues cancels help just ask. I've identified hundreds of them!
Login to Like
this post
08:36:58pm
re: R164 with an embossed cut cancel?
1899 I will take you up on that offer at sometime I'm sure. In the same lot that the stamp that has been the topic of this thread are 3 more of the 1898 battleship series. The RB series to be to the point and of course they aren't in the best shape but have very interesting manuscript and hand stamp cancels. I'll get to them later I have bigger fish to fry right now. Such as what I am going to do with the hundreds of stamps from the lot that I don't have a home need for but some are quite valuable and I really don't want them and would consider as trading material. I'll post a thread later in the Let's Trade Stamps sub forum.
Jeremy
Login to Like
this post
09:26:59pm
re: R164 with an embossed cut cancel?
@Sarge
For any of the RB Battleships there is an outstanding web site, thousands cancells there and very easy to search.
Go to "Battleship Revenues", there you will find a ton of information for cancels and other related things!
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this post