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United States/Stamps : I just realized there is no Scott #436 Or #451?

 

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PhilatelistMag20
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13 Jan 2025
08:43:55pm

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I was reading my Scott Catalog and I noticed it goes 434,435,437 and 449,450,452!
Why is this?
Was there a misunderstanding in an early printing or was there a different reason.
Thanks!
-Ari Happy
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angore
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Al
Collector, Moderator

14 Jan 2025
06:07:00am
re: I just realized there is no Scott #436 Or #451?

I do not know specific reason but Scott has renumbered stamps several times over the years due to changes in how they classify.

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Harvey
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This is my diabetic cat OBI! I think, therefore I am - I think! Descartes, sort of!

14 Jan 2025
11:08:56am
re: I just realized there is no Scott #436 Or #451?

It's fairly common for Scott's to renumber or drop stamps. I have one page in my Harris Liberty Album where 5 stamps have been crossed out because they are now considered to be trial colours or essays. I keep a list of numbers that are now DNE's in my album. This is a Civil War era series with several stamps that have been dropped by Scott's and there are many more. Sometimes stamps are added as well. Can you imagine the chaos if Scott's would decide to renumber their US stamps?
Image Not Found

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ernieinjax
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APS 203949

14 Jan 2025
11:12:11am
re: I just realized there is no Scott #436 Or #451?

Harvey,
That example of Scott 67 is NICE. My kind of stamp.

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Harvey
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This is my diabetic cat OBI! I think, therefore I am - I think! Descartes, sort of!

14 Jan 2025
01:36:11pm
re: I just realized there is no Scott #436 Or #451?

In this time period you get some amazing fancy cancels!!! I have been making up my own names since I don't have any reference material. I really like tha combination of the bullseye and the swirl pattern on #76! I've looked on line for "fancy cancels" and there really are some amazing one available out there. In most cases I just ended up with them and have some nice ones - total fluke!! I wish there were serious collectors in the area to talk to but no such luck!

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"As anyone who has ever been around a cat for any length of time well knows cats have enormous patience with the limitations of the humankind."
1899

14 Jan 2025
01:41:47pm
re: I just realized there is no Scott #436 Or #451?

There is a lot of book covering just fancy cancels!

I like the San Francisco Cog cancels, or the New York Pearls cancel!

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Harvey
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This is my diabetic cat OBI! I think, therefore I am - I think! Descartes, sort of!

14 Jan 2025
02:28:50pm
re: I just realized there is no Scott #436 Or #451?

I am not sure exactly why but the New York string of pearls is considered to be a silent precancel. It's mentioned in a book someone sent me on Silent Precancels written by David W. Smith. What I would really like to have is an article that shows the fancy cancels and what they are called. I don't need a book that lists them all by stamp and prices. That would be enough for me!
Edit: After checking online it looks like my #78 has a San Francisco cog cancel.
Edit: Found this video which has some information on fancy cancels. Just watching the video, I expected a lot of information but it's just a regular collector who really has very little information about what he's trying to discuss. I'll probably give the rest of it a pass!! It was actually pretty useless!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-rcJOLUY ...

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"As anyone who has ever been around a cat for any length of time well knows cats have enormous patience with the limitations of the humankind."
1899

14 Jan 2025
03:06:28pm
re: I just realized there is no Scott #436 Or #451?

Also #71

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simothecat

14 Jan 2025
07:46:35pm
re: I just realized there is no Scott #436 Or #451?

In this case #436 used to be 12 cents copper red. At some point Scott decided this variety didn't qualify for its own catalog number and so now it is #435a. This change happened sometime between 1932 and 1960. The other number was lost earlier, but it was due to a rearrangement of the 2 cent red and carmine shades and types.

Jan

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PhilatelistMag20
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15 Jan 2025
12:24:39pm

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re: I just realized there is no Scott #436 Or #451?

Jan, Thanks for that info.
Also Harvey, your collection has me drooling!
I mean just LOOK at that #71 and #72!
I wish I had those stamps.
Maybe one day they will be in my price range...
Wow!
Thanks everyone for the info.
Happy 2025!
-Ari

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2 Members
like this post.
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www.philatelistmagazine.com/
Harvey
Members Picture


This is my diabetic cat OBI! I think, therefore I am - I think! Descartes, sort of!

15 Jan 2025
01:54:27pm
re: I just realized there is no Scott #436 Or #451?

"Maybe one day they will be in my price range..."


My "luck" emerged from a huge stroke of bad luck!! When my wife was living she was a self employed government worker as a Fisheries contract worker. We tightened our belts and basically lived off her salary and most of my income as a teacher went into investments to give her some financial security in case something happened to me. Unfortunately it went the other way and left me with those investments and no family to spend the money on. I don't spend money on clothing or travel since that really doesn't have much appeal. So I am basically a hermit working on a stamp collection and other collections we got into as antique dealers. Everything gets sold with the proceeds going to charity when my time rolls around. I have a great deal of this organized now, as we all should! I can't buy hugely expensive items but I buy what I can afford and sort of "dedicate" my stamp collection to my wife's memory. I know this is quite personal but you people, and a few friends who really don't understand why I collect stuff, are the only people I can try to explain myself to! We all have different reasons why we collect!
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"As anyone who has ever been around a cat for any length of time well knows cats have enormous patience with the limitations of the humankind."
Logistical1
Members Picture


15 Jan 2025
05:35:12pm
re: I just realized there is no Scott #436 Or #451?

Similar situation except due to divorce. At least the lawyers left me with my stamp collection, probably because they would have had to wrench it from my cold dead hands. She got most of the antiques though. I bought new furniture and antique slot machines when all was said and done. What charities will accept stamp collections?

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Harvey
Members Picture


This is my diabetic cat OBI! I think, therefore I am - I think! Descartes, sort of!

15 Jan 2025
05:46:06pm
re: I just realized there is no Scott #436 Or #451?

"What charities will accept stamp collections?"


I've been using the same local stamp dealer for over 50 years. Steve and his father have been running the company for many years and I've picked up a lot of great stuff from them over the years and they know my collection very well. In my will it's spelled out that my collection goes to them to be sold peace meal. Part of the money from each transaction goes to them and the rest to charity - probably 50 / 50 but we haven't discussed that yet. I'm very lucky to have people like this I trust but any of you could have it set up so your collection goes to auction and have the proceeds go where ever you want! If you're very lucky you might have it go to family and have the collection continue.

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this post

"As anyone who has ever been around a cat for any length of time well knows cats have enormous patience with the limitations of the humankind."
PhilatelistMag20
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15 Jan 2025
08:23:49pm

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re: I just realized there is no Scott #436 Or #451?

Hi Harvey!
That's wonderful to hear that you are giving some of you stamps proceeds to charity.
When I get older I hope to leave my stamp collection to my family!
This guy sounds like a nice dealer!
Do you have his email?
Thanks!
-Ari

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www.philatelistmagazine.com/
Harvey
Members Picture


This is my diabetic cat OBI! I think, therefore I am - I think! Descartes, sort of!

15 Jan 2025
08:54:41pm
re: I just realized there is no Scott #436 Or #451?

I'll send you his web site in a message! I'm sure he could you a few more buyers!!

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"As anyone who has ever been around a cat for any length of time well knows cats have enormous patience with the limitations of the humankind."
larsdog
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APS #220693 ATA#57179

18 Jan 2025
11:58:39pm
re: I just realized there is no Scott #436 Or #451?

Missing numbers are common.

There are also no 48-62, 66, 74, 520-522, 574, 580, 592, 593, 607-609, etc.

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"Expanding your knowledge faster than your collection can save you a few bucks."

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PhilatelistMag20
Members Picture


19 Jan 2025
10:57:44am

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re: I just realized there is no Scott #436 Or #451?

That's a lot!
In this case I do know that Scott changed #74 to trial color proof on paper.

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www.philatelistmagazine.com/
larsdog
Members Picture


APS #220693 ATA#57179

19 Jan 2025
11:15:46pm
re: I just realized there is no Scott #436 Or #451?

Yes, and there is a fascinating story about 55-62. Those were originally thought to be the Premier Gravure (or August) issues - the first issues of Civil War stamps. However, it was discovered that they were all really just essays and trial color proofs with the exception of the 10c issue. But that wasn't a "premiere" issue at all. When they ran short of 10c stamps (#68) for mail to California, instead of creating new plates of #68 they grabbed the plate for 58 and used it in production. The result was #62B.

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"Expanding your knowledge faster than your collection can save you a few bucks."

stamps.colp.info
PhilatelistMag20
Members Picture


20 Jan 2025
05:55:09pm

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re: I just realized there is no Scott #436 Or #451?

Thats a very cool story larsdog!
You've got a lot of Philatelic Info!

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www.philatelistmagazine.com/
        

 

Author/Postings
Members Picture
PhilatelistMag20

13 Jan 2025
08:43:55pm

Approvals

I was reading my Scott Catalog and I noticed it goes 434,435,437 and 449,450,452!
Why is this?
Was there a misunderstanding in an early printing or was there a different reason.
Thanks!
-Ari Happy

Like
Login to Like
this post

www.philatelistmagaz ...
Members Picture
angore

Al
Collector, Moderator
14 Jan 2025
06:07:00am

re: I just realized there is no Scott #436 Or #451?

I do not know specific reason but Scott has renumbered stamps several times over the years due to changes in how they classify.

Like 
3 Members
like this post.
Login to Like.

"Stamp Collecting is a many splendored thing"

This is my diabetic cat OBI! I think, therefore I am - I think! Descartes, sort of!
14 Jan 2025
11:08:56am

re: I just realized there is no Scott #436 Or #451?

It's fairly common for Scott's to renumber or drop stamps. I have one page in my Harris Liberty Album where 5 stamps have been crossed out because they are now considered to be trial colours or essays. I keep a list of numbers that are now DNE's in my album. This is a Civil War era series with several stamps that have been dropped by Scott's and there are many more. Sometimes stamps are added as well. Can you imagine the chaos if Scott's would decide to renumber their US stamps?
Image Not Found

Like 
2 Members
like this post.
Login to Like.

"As anyone who has ever been around a cat for any length of time well knows cats have enormous patience with the limitations of the humankind."
Members Picture
ernieinjax

APS 203949
14 Jan 2025
11:12:11am

re: I just realized there is no Scott #436 Or #451?

Harvey,
That example of Scott 67 is NICE. My kind of stamp.

Like 
1 Member
likes this post.
Login to Like.

This is my diabetic cat OBI! I think, therefore I am - I think! Descartes, sort of!
14 Jan 2025
01:36:11pm

re: I just realized there is no Scott #436 Or #451?

In this time period you get some amazing fancy cancels!!! I have been making up my own names since I don't have any reference material. I really like tha combination of the bullseye and the swirl pattern on #76! I've looked on line for "fancy cancels" and there really are some amazing one available out there. In most cases I just ended up with them and have some nice ones - total fluke!! I wish there were serious collectors in the area to talk to but no such luck!

Like
Login to Like
this post

"As anyone who has ever been around a cat for any length of time well knows cats have enormous patience with the limitations of the humankind."
1899

14 Jan 2025
01:41:47pm

re: I just realized there is no Scott #436 Or #451?

There is a lot of book covering just fancy cancels!

I like the San Francisco Cog cancels, or the New York Pearls cancel!

Like
Login to Like
this post

This is my diabetic cat OBI! I think, therefore I am - I think! Descartes, sort of!
14 Jan 2025
02:28:50pm

re: I just realized there is no Scott #436 Or #451?

I am not sure exactly why but the New York string of pearls is considered to be a silent precancel. It's mentioned in a book someone sent me on Silent Precancels written by David W. Smith. What I would really like to have is an article that shows the fancy cancels and what they are called. I don't need a book that lists them all by stamp and prices. That would be enough for me!
Edit: After checking online it looks like my #78 has a San Francisco cog cancel.
Edit: Found this video which has some information on fancy cancels. Just watching the video, I expected a lot of information but it's just a regular collector who really has very little information about what he's trying to discuss. I'll probably give the rest of it a pass!! It was actually pretty useless!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-rcJOLUY ...

Like 
1 Member
likes this post.
Login to Like.

"As anyone who has ever been around a cat for any length of time well knows cats have enormous patience with the limitations of the humankind."
1899

14 Jan 2025
03:06:28pm

re: I just realized there is no Scott #436 Or #451?

Also #71

Like
Login to Like
this post
simothecat

14 Jan 2025
07:46:35pm

re: I just realized there is no Scott #436 Or #451?

In this case #436 used to be 12 cents copper red. At some point Scott decided this variety didn't qualify for its own catalog number and so now it is #435a. This change happened sometime between 1932 and 1960. The other number was lost earlier, but it was due to a rearrangement of the 2 cent red and carmine shades and types.

Jan

Like 
1 Member
likes this post.
Login to Like.
Members Picture
PhilatelistMag20

15 Jan 2025
12:24:39pm

Approvals

re: I just realized there is no Scott #436 Or #451?

Jan, Thanks for that info.
Also Harvey, your collection has me drooling!
I mean just LOOK at that #71 and #72!
I wish I had those stamps.
Maybe one day they will be in my price range...
Wow!
Thanks everyone for the info.
Happy 2025!
-Ari

Like 
2 Members
like this post.
Login to Like.

www.philatelistmagaz ...

This is my diabetic cat OBI! I think, therefore I am - I think! Descartes, sort of!
15 Jan 2025
01:54:27pm

re: I just realized there is no Scott #436 Or #451?

"Maybe one day they will be in my price range..."


My "luck" emerged from a huge stroke of bad luck!! When my wife was living she was a self employed government worker as a Fisheries contract worker. We tightened our belts and basically lived off her salary and most of my income as a teacher went into investments to give her some financial security in case something happened to me. Unfortunately it went the other way and left me with those investments and no family to spend the money on. I don't spend money on clothing or travel since that really doesn't have much appeal. So I am basically a hermit working on a stamp collection and other collections we got into as antique dealers. Everything gets sold with the proceeds going to charity when my time rolls around. I have a great deal of this organized now, as we all should! I can't buy hugely expensive items but I buy what I can afford and sort of "dedicate" my stamp collection to my wife's memory. I know this is quite personal but you people, and a few friends who really don't understand why I collect stuff, are the only people I can try to explain myself to! We all have different reasons why we collect!
Like 
8 Members
like this post.
Login to Like.

"As anyone who has ever been around a cat for any length of time well knows cats have enormous patience with the limitations of the humankind."
Members Picture
Logistical1

15 Jan 2025
05:35:12pm

re: I just realized there is no Scott #436 Or #451?

Similar situation except due to divorce. At least the lawyers left me with my stamp collection, probably because they would have had to wrench it from my cold dead hands. She got most of the antiques though. I bought new furniture and antique slot machines when all was said and done. What charities will accept stamp collections?

Like
Login to Like
this post

This is my diabetic cat OBI! I think, therefore I am - I think! Descartes, sort of!
15 Jan 2025
05:46:06pm

re: I just realized there is no Scott #436 Or #451?

"What charities will accept stamp collections?"


I've been using the same local stamp dealer for over 50 years. Steve and his father have been running the company for many years and I've picked up a lot of great stuff from them over the years and they know my collection very well. In my will it's spelled out that my collection goes to them to be sold peace meal. Part of the money from each transaction goes to them and the rest to charity - probably 50 / 50 but we haven't discussed that yet. I'm very lucky to have people like this I trust but any of you could have it set up so your collection goes to auction and have the proceeds go where ever you want! If you're very lucky you might have it go to family and have the collection continue.

Like
Login to Like
this post

"As anyone who has ever been around a cat for any length of time well knows cats have enormous patience with the limitations of the humankind."
Members Picture
PhilatelistMag20

15 Jan 2025
08:23:49pm

Approvals

re: I just realized there is no Scott #436 Or #451?

Hi Harvey!
That's wonderful to hear that you are giving some of you stamps proceeds to charity.
When I get older I hope to leave my stamp collection to my family!
This guy sounds like a nice dealer!
Do you have his email?
Thanks!
-Ari

Like
Login to Like
this post

www.philatelistmagaz ...

This is my diabetic cat OBI! I think, therefore I am - I think! Descartes, sort of!
15 Jan 2025
08:54:41pm

re: I just realized there is no Scott #436 Or #451?

I'll send you his web site in a message! I'm sure he could you a few more buyers!!

Like
Login to Like
this post

"As anyone who has ever been around a cat for any length of time well knows cats have enormous patience with the limitations of the humankind."
Members Picture
larsdog

APS #220693 ATA#57179
18 Jan 2025
11:58:39pm

re: I just realized there is no Scott #436 Or #451?

Missing numbers are common.

There are also no 48-62, 66, 74, 520-522, 574, 580, 592, 593, 607-609, etc.

Like 
2 Members
like this post.
Login to Like.

"Expanding your knowledge faster than your collection can save you a few bucks."

stamps.colp.info
Members Picture
PhilatelistMag20

19 Jan 2025
10:57:44am

Approvals

re: I just realized there is no Scott #436 Or #451?

That's a lot!
In this case I do know that Scott changed #74 to trial color proof on paper.

Like
Login to Like
this post

www.philatelistmagaz ...
Members Picture
larsdog

APS #220693 ATA#57179
19 Jan 2025
11:15:46pm

re: I just realized there is no Scott #436 Or #451?

Yes, and there is a fascinating story about 55-62. Those were originally thought to be the Premier Gravure (or August) issues - the first issues of Civil War stamps. However, it was discovered that they were all really just essays and trial color proofs with the exception of the 10c issue. But that wasn't a "premiere" issue at all. When they ran short of 10c stamps (#68) for mail to California, instead of creating new plates of #68 they grabbed the plate for 58 and used it in production. The result was #62B.

Like 
2 Members
like this post.
Login to Like.

"Expanding your knowledge faster than your collection can save you a few bucks."

stamps.colp.info
Members Picture
PhilatelistMag20

20 Jan 2025
05:55:09pm

Approvals

re: I just realized there is no Scott #436 Or #451?

Thats a very cool story larsdog!
You've got a lot of Philatelic Info!

Like
Login to Like
this post

www.philatelistmagaz ...
        

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