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Canada/Stamps : We can only dream!!

 

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Harvey
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This is my diabetic cat OBI! I think, therefore I am - I think! Descartes, sort of!

12 Jan 2025
11:58:49am
I saw this on E-Bay from a company I have got wonderful stuff from before. Wouldn't it be wonderful to be able to afford something like this?

https://www.ebay.ca/itm/267100569378?itm ...

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"As anyone who has ever been around a cat for any length of time well knows cats have enormous patience with the limitations of the humankind."
ernieinjax
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APS 203949

12 Jan 2025
12:26:33pm
re: We can only dream!!

or this.... it's got 21 watchers. Someone's gonna hit the "Buy it Now" button.


https://www.ebay.com/itm/204588342156?_s ...

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Harvey
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This is my diabetic cat OBI! I think, therefore I am - I think! Descartes, sort of!

12 Jan 2025
01:43:04pm
re: We can only dream!!

You quite often see a lot of watchers for this type of stuff, I think people are curious whether anyone could afford to buy it!!Big Grin
It's a bit odd actually, my BC#1 or #3 has a CV higher than a lot of stuff like this so I guess if my local dealer ran into an item like one of the inverts and allowed me to get it on a bunch of payments, well, you never know!

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"As anyone who has ever been around a cat for any length of time well knows cats have enormous patience with the limitations of the humankind."
1899

12 Jan 2025
03:28:53pm
re: We can only dream!!

What is the back story on the stamps in question?

Is it known how many errors were printed?


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Harvey
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This is my diabetic cat OBI! I think, therefore I am - I think! Descartes, sort of!

12 Jan 2025
06:44:31pm
re: We can only dream!!

The backs of the stamps would be normal and with the Canada Seaway stamp I showed there were (supposedly) 400 printed. Unitrade says it was the text that was inverted. For the Pan Am US series of inverts there is no mention in my US Scott's specialized as to the number that was done but I bet one of the SoR readers knows that!! I would guess the colour would have been done in two stages and someone fed a few sheets through backwards and they went through unnoticed. I'm sure there is information on line somewhere. All I know is that these items are out of reach of the normal collector!!

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"As anyone who has ever been around a cat for any length of time well knows cats have enormous patience with the limitations of the humankind."
roy
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BuckaCover.com - 80,000 covers priced 60c to $1.50 - Easy browsing 500 categories

12 Jan 2025
07:40:10pm
re: We can only dream!!

@Harvey
back-story
noun: a history or background
(although I understand the point of confusion, with 1899's obsession with scans of the back of stamps Winking )


1-Cent Pan-American Invert (Scott #294a)
Known examples: Approximately 600 to 700 copies.
These are the most common of the three denominations with the inverted center error. Many were saved due to their immediate discovery when issued.

2-Cent Pan-American Invert (Scott #295a)
Known examples: Approximately 200 to 250 copies.
This denomination is less common than the 1-cent but was also saved by collectors early on.

4-Cent Pan-American Invert (Scott #296a)
Known examples: Fewer than 100 copies.


The 1959 Canadian Seaway Invert (Scott #387a) is a notable error in Canadian philately. The exact number of these error stamps in existence is not definitively known, but estimates suggest that approximately 200 to 400 copies are in private hands.

These stamps were printed in sheets of 200, which were then divided into four panes of 50 for distribution. Reports indicate that error panes were discovered in post offices in Winnipeg, Manitoba; Picton, Ontario; and Peterborough, Ontario.

The first reported discovery occurred in Winnipeg, where a young office boy from the Marlborough Hotel purchased 30 stamps from a post office outlet in the Eaton store on August 20, 1959.

Some sources suggest that about 200 mint Seaway Inverts are in private hands, with an additional 48 used off-cover and 22 on-cover or on-piece examples.

In other words, there are still likely some undiscovered examples out there!

Roy

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"BuckaCover.com - 8,000+ new covers coming Wednesday Jan. 15. See the website."

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1899

12 Jan 2025
08:15:19pm
re: We can only dream!!

@Harvey & Roy

Do you know if these were flat press printed or rotarty presss printed.

I don't have a Cat. for Canada.

If neither of you know, that's ok.

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roy
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BuckaCover.com - 80,000 covers priced 60c to $1.50 - Easy browsing 500 categories

12 Jan 2025
09:11:51pm
re: We can only dream!!

Flat plate of 200, cut into panes of 50 for distribution to post offices. Theory is that two sheets of 200 were accidentally rotated before the second pass in the press for the second color.

Roy

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"BuckaCover.com - 8,000+ new covers coming Wednesday Jan. 15. See the website."

www.Buckacover.com
Harvey
Members Picture


This is my diabetic cat OBI! I think, therefore I am - I think! Descartes, sort of!

12 Jan 2025
09:31:57pm
re: We can only dream!!

Thanks for all the information Roy and for all the work involved in getting it! Wouldn't it be great to be going through a bunch of stamps and find a Seaway invert? It'd be like the person who discovered the third Canada #32 in a bunch of stamps!

"According to a cover story in Canadian Stamp News, the third 2c Laid Paper was found in an American Philatelic Society salesbook and purchased for less than $5."


The stuff that dreams are made of. Collectors assume there are many, or at least quite a few, of these stamps out there in older stamp albums since many collectors had no idea of the difference between laid and wove paper. It sort of makes you want to buy every 2 cent green large Queen that you run into!!

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"As anyone who has ever been around a cat for any length of time well knows cats have enormous patience with the limitations of the humankind."
1899

12 Jan 2025
09:59:23pm
re: We can only dream!!

Thank you Harvey & Roy for the information, a good starting point!

I'm a person Who Loves To Talk About Stamps!

Every stamp has a story. For me rare stamps often has the most interesting stories.

Is there a sor member who has more information and would like share it with me?

The Scott Cat. number is 387a, perhaps other Cat. other than Scott uses a different Cat. number, does any sor member know these number(s)?


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1899

13 Jan 2025
10:26:26am
re: We can only dream!!

Ok the stamp in question is flat press printed.

Sometimes there is an offsett or set off image because the previoius sheet was too wet. Does this happen on Canada stamps from the era of the 387a?


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Harvey
Members Picture


This is my diabetic cat OBI! I think, therefore I am - I think! Descartes, sort of!

13 Jan 2025
10:41:59am
re: We can only dream!!

I've got quite a few early offsets including these two total offsets which are given the German name abklatsch which sort of translates as "cheap copy". I had someone explain to me how this happens. It's a bit more complicated than just transfer from a wet stamp. The third stamp shown is a bit different, it's printed on the gum side. Fronts and backs of all three stamps are shown. The first set of images is under the gum. Can any one explain to me how an abklatsch is produced? I seem to remember it has something to do with ink on the roller.
I ran into this on line but I'm not sure if it is right or complete!

"Depending upon the printing process, they can also happen when a sheet of paper doesn't feed, and the stamp image is 'printed' directly onto the press. The next sheet of paper through the press can get inked on both the front and the back, with the back being mirrored."


Image Not Found
Image Not Found

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"As anyone who has ever been around a cat for any length of time well knows cats have enormous patience with the limitations of the humankind."
1899

13 Jan 2025
11:15:05am
re: We can only dream!!

@Harvey

Does this happen on the stamp in question on your OP 12 Jan 2025 11:58:49AM?

Thank you

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Harvey
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This is my diabetic cat OBI! I think, therefore I am - I think! Descartes, sort of!

13 Jan 2025
11:48:48am
re: We can only dream!!

No, on that stamp the sheet was just put in up-side-down for the second part of the printing process. For the abklatch the image is on the back of the stamp.

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"As anyone who has ever been around a cat for any length of time well knows cats have enormous patience with the limitations of the humankind."
1899

13 Jan 2025
11:54:59am
re: We can only dream!!

@Harvey

Sorry Harvey, guess I got you confused, I'm asking about the Scott 387a, in your OP?

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d1stamper
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13 Jan 2025
11:58:17am
re: We can only dream!!

"in your OP?"



What is OP?

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Harvey
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This is my diabetic cat OBI! I think, therefore I am - I think! Descartes, sort of!

13 Jan 2025
12:08:35pm
re: We can only dream!!

I assume OP is "original post".

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"As anyone who has ever been around a cat for any length of time well knows cats have enormous patience with the limitations of the humankind."
Harvey
Members Picture


This is my diabetic cat OBI! I think, therefore I am - I think! Descartes, sort of!

13 Jan 2025
01:10:44pm
re: We can only dream!!

In the original post the error was a top to bottom reversal of the sheet which turned part of the image upside down on the top face of the stamp. In the abklatch material the problem was a back to front problem. Since ink was not where it was supposed to be a mirror image ended up on the glue side, or back, of the stamp.

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"As anyone who has ever been around a cat for any length of time well knows cats have enormous patience with the limitations of the humankind."
1899

13 Jan 2025
03:21:52pm
re: We can only dream!!

@Harvey

OK thanks I fully understand now!

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1899

14 Jan 2025
01:45:04pm
re: We can only dream!!

It's interesting this stamp is flat plate printed!

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1899

15 Jan 2025
01:36:56pm
re: We can only dream!!

For Harevy OP, what would the offset/set off on a regular 387 appears to be and likewise what would 387a appear?

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Author/Postings

This is my diabetic cat OBI! I think, therefore I am - I think! Descartes, sort of!
12 Jan 2025
11:58:49am

I saw this on E-Bay from a company I have got wonderful stuff from before. Wouldn't it be wonderful to be able to afford something like this?

https://www.ebay.ca/itm/267100569378?itm ...

Like 
1 Member
likes this post.
Login to Like.

"As anyone who has ever been around a cat for any length of time well knows cats have enormous patience with the limitations of the humankind."
Members Picture
ernieinjax

APS 203949
12 Jan 2025
12:26:33pm

re: We can only dream!!

or this.... it's got 21 watchers. Someone's gonna hit the "Buy it Now" button.


https://www.ebay.com/itm/204588342156?_s ...

Like
Login to Like
this post

This is my diabetic cat OBI! I think, therefore I am - I think! Descartes, sort of!
12 Jan 2025
01:43:04pm

re: We can only dream!!

You quite often see a lot of watchers for this type of stuff, I think people are curious whether anyone could afford to buy it!!Big Grin
It's a bit odd actually, my BC#1 or #3 has a CV higher than a lot of stuff like this so I guess if my local dealer ran into an item like one of the inverts and allowed me to get it on a bunch of payments, well, you never know!

Like
Login to Like
this post

"As anyone who has ever been around a cat for any length of time well knows cats have enormous patience with the limitations of the humankind."
1899

12 Jan 2025
03:28:53pm

re: We can only dream!!

What is the back story on the stamps in question?

Is it known how many errors were printed?


Like
Login to Like
this post

This is my diabetic cat OBI! I think, therefore I am - I think! Descartes, sort of!
12 Jan 2025
06:44:31pm

re: We can only dream!!

The backs of the stamps would be normal and with the Canada Seaway stamp I showed there were (supposedly) 400 printed. Unitrade says it was the text that was inverted. For the Pan Am US series of inverts there is no mention in my US Scott's specialized as to the number that was done but I bet one of the SoR readers knows that!! I would guess the colour would have been done in two stages and someone fed a few sheets through backwards and they went through unnoticed. I'm sure there is information on line somewhere. All I know is that these items are out of reach of the normal collector!!

Like 
1 Member
likes this post.
Login to Like.

"As anyone who has ever been around a cat for any length of time well knows cats have enormous patience with the limitations of the humankind."

BuckaCover.com - 80,000 covers priced 60c to $1.50 - Easy browsing 500 categories
12 Jan 2025
07:40:10pm

re: We can only dream!!

@Harvey
back-story
noun: a history or background
(although I understand the point of confusion, with 1899's obsession with scans of the back of stamps Winking )


1-Cent Pan-American Invert (Scott #294a)
Known examples: Approximately 600 to 700 copies.
These are the most common of the three denominations with the inverted center error. Many were saved due to their immediate discovery when issued.

2-Cent Pan-American Invert (Scott #295a)
Known examples: Approximately 200 to 250 copies.
This denomination is less common than the 1-cent but was also saved by collectors early on.

4-Cent Pan-American Invert (Scott #296a)
Known examples: Fewer than 100 copies.


The 1959 Canadian Seaway Invert (Scott #387a) is a notable error in Canadian philately. The exact number of these error stamps in existence is not definitively known, but estimates suggest that approximately 200 to 400 copies are in private hands.

These stamps were printed in sheets of 200, which were then divided into four panes of 50 for distribution. Reports indicate that error panes were discovered in post offices in Winnipeg, Manitoba; Picton, Ontario; and Peterborough, Ontario.

The first reported discovery occurred in Winnipeg, where a young office boy from the Marlborough Hotel purchased 30 stamps from a post office outlet in the Eaton store on August 20, 1959.

Some sources suggest that about 200 mint Seaway Inverts are in private hands, with an additional 48 used off-cover and 22 on-cover or on-piece examples.

In other words, there are still likely some undiscovered examples out there!

Roy

Like 
2 Members
like this post.
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"BuckaCover.com - 8,000+ new covers coming Wednesday Jan. 15. See the website."

www.Buckacover.com
1899

12 Jan 2025
08:15:19pm

re: We can only dream!!

@Harvey & Roy

Do you know if these were flat press printed or rotarty presss printed.

I don't have a Cat. for Canada.

If neither of you know, that's ok.

Like
Login to Like
this post

BuckaCover.com - 80,000 covers priced 60c to $1.50 - Easy browsing 500 categories
12 Jan 2025
09:11:51pm

re: We can only dream!!

Flat plate of 200, cut into panes of 50 for distribution to post offices. Theory is that two sheets of 200 were accidentally rotated before the second pass in the press for the second color.

Roy

Like
Login to Like
this post

"BuckaCover.com - 8,000+ new covers coming Wednesday Jan. 15. See the website."

www.Buckacover.com

This is my diabetic cat OBI! I think, therefore I am - I think! Descartes, sort of!
12 Jan 2025
09:31:57pm

re: We can only dream!!

Thanks for all the information Roy and for all the work involved in getting it! Wouldn't it be great to be going through a bunch of stamps and find a Seaway invert? It'd be like the person who discovered the third Canada #32 in a bunch of stamps!

"According to a cover story in Canadian Stamp News, the third 2c Laid Paper was found in an American Philatelic Society salesbook and purchased for less than $5."


The stuff that dreams are made of. Collectors assume there are many, or at least quite a few, of these stamps out there in older stamp albums since many collectors had no idea of the difference between laid and wove paper. It sort of makes you want to buy every 2 cent green large Queen that you run into!!

Like
Login to Like
this post

"As anyone who has ever been around a cat for any length of time well knows cats have enormous patience with the limitations of the humankind."
1899

12 Jan 2025
09:59:23pm

re: We can only dream!!

Thank you Harvey & Roy for the information, a good starting point!

I'm a person Who Loves To Talk About Stamps!

Every stamp has a story. For me rare stamps often has the most interesting stories.

Is there a sor member who has more information and would like share it with me?

The Scott Cat. number is 387a, perhaps other Cat. other than Scott uses a different Cat. number, does any sor member know these number(s)?


Like 
1 Member
likes this post.
Login to Like.
1899

13 Jan 2025
10:26:26am

re: We can only dream!!

Ok the stamp in question is flat press printed.

Sometimes there is an offsett or set off image because the previoius sheet was too wet. Does this happen on Canada stamps from the era of the 387a?


Like
Login to Like
this post

This is my diabetic cat OBI! I think, therefore I am - I think! Descartes, sort of!
13 Jan 2025
10:41:59am

re: We can only dream!!

I've got quite a few early offsets including these two total offsets which are given the German name abklatsch which sort of translates as "cheap copy". I had someone explain to me how this happens. It's a bit more complicated than just transfer from a wet stamp. The third stamp shown is a bit different, it's printed on the gum side. Fronts and backs of all three stamps are shown. The first set of images is under the gum. Can any one explain to me how an abklatsch is produced? I seem to remember it has something to do with ink on the roller.
I ran into this on line but I'm not sure if it is right or complete!

"Depending upon the printing process, they can also happen when a sheet of paper doesn't feed, and the stamp image is 'printed' directly onto the press. The next sheet of paper through the press can get inked on both the front and the back, with the back being mirrored."


Image Not Found
Image Not Found

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1 Member
likes this post.
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"As anyone who has ever been around a cat for any length of time well knows cats have enormous patience with the limitations of the humankind."
1899

13 Jan 2025
11:15:05am

re: We can only dream!!

@Harvey

Does this happen on the stamp in question on your OP 12 Jan 2025 11:58:49AM?

Thank you

Like
Login to Like
this post

This is my diabetic cat OBI! I think, therefore I am - I think! Descartes, sort of!
13 Jan 2025
11:48:48am

re: We can only dream!!

No, on that stamp the sheet was just put in up-side-down for the second part of the printing process. For the abklatch the image is on the back of the stamp.

Like
Login to Like
this post

"As anyone who has ever been around a cat for any length of time well knows cats have enormous patience with the limitations of the humankind."
1899

13 Jan 2025
11:54:59am

re: We can only dream!!

@Harvey

Sorry Harvey, guess I got you confused, I'm asking about the Scott 387a, in your OP?

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this post
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d1stamper

13 Jan 2025
11:58:17am

re: We can only dream!!

"in your OP?"



What is OP?

Like
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this post

This is my diabetic cat OBI! I think, therefore I am - I think! Descartes, sort of!
13 Jan 2025
12:08:35pm

re: We can only dream!!

I assume OP is "original post".

Like
Login to Like
this post

"As anyone who has ever been around a cat for any length of time well knows cats have enormous patience with the limitations of the humankind."

This is my diabetic cat OBI! I think, therefore I am - I think! Descartes, sort of!
13 Jan 2025
01:10:44pm

re: We can only dream!!

In the original post the error was a top to bottom reversal of the sheet which turned part of the image upside down on the top face of the stamp. In the abklatch material the problem was a back to front problem. Since ink was not where it was supposed to be a mirror image ended up on the glue side, or back, of the stamp.

Like
Login to Like
this post

"As anyone who has ever been around a cat for any length of time well knows cats have enormous patience with the limitations of the humankind."
1899

13 Jan 2025
03:21:52pm

re: We can only dream!!

@Harvey

OK thanks I fully understand now!

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this post
1899

14 Jan 2025
01:45:04pm

re: We can only dream!!

It's interesting this stamp is flat plate printed!

Like
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this post
1899

15 Jan 2025
01:36:56pm

re: We can only dream!!

For Harevy OP, what would the offset/set off on a regular 387 appears to be and likewise what would 387a appear?

Like
Login to Like
this post
        

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