Discussion - Member to Member Sales - Research Center
Discussion - Member to Member Sales - Research Center
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I have never seen any way to do what you are asking.
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11:52:02am
I always assumed the mark is there forever and the stamp would be classified as mint hinged (MH). To avoid making this mark myself I always use black crystal mounting and now with US and Canada I use it for all stamps because I like the look. In some cases the mount is worth more than the stamp!! Only my opinion!!
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Using a vapour bath can remove the signs of an old hinge but the gum will still look disturbed. (Sorry as I forget what we call the vapour bath in philatelic terms, but basically a sealed box with the the stamps above the level of the (warm) water and face down on whatever support you are using.) I have done this with early Thai mint stamps just for my own collection but it probably doesn't change mint hinged to mint unhinged.
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10:33:59pm
I would be very careful doing something that affects the gum that is already there. I have no idea what this procedure does but what if it causes the gum to liquefy a little bit and it flows into some of the perfs. You would find it very hard to convince a potential buyer that the stamp has not been re-gummed. I might be totally out to lunch on your procedure but I would be very careful. I always leave the back of the stamp as I find it and concentrate on the front. But we are all different!! All is IMHO!!
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"Sorry as I forget what we call the vapour bath in philatelic terms"
I think I remember this being called a "sweat box".
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One of the dealers at a monthly show I used to sell at could work miracles with stamp faults. He could turn a hinged stamp into a stamp that would pass as NH under cursory examination. If the hinge was still in place his work became almost undetectable. Note I said almost. Evidence of a prior hinge was a very subtle hinge shaped "shadow" which appeared visible under either watermark fluid or when viewed in a Signoscope.
He never claimed he could make a stamp NH, only improve the gum to light hinge. Questionable from an ethics standpoint if sold as LH - fraud if sold as NH. So if selling expensive stamps as NH it pays to give them a quick dip in watermark fluid or view them under a Signoscope.
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This is PRECISELY why I prefer to purchase postally used. Besides, there's a certain charm to a stamp that has "done it's job".
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Why is selling a stamp with hinge removed as LH (if there is a tell tale spot) as misleading when that is how LH stamps are created. Someone has done it at some point. Maybe I am missing something. I would consider using the term disturbed gum as more misleading.
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Al,
To me the difference is that a LH stamp is almost always obvious if you flip it upside down and glance at it in oblique light. The gum has a different gloss. When a perhaps heavy hinged stamp is improved a quick flip in oblique light shows an undisturbed gloss and usually requires further examination in watermark fluid or by signoscope to determine it was previously hinged.
At some point a dealer is going to sell it as NH through deceit or innocently buying it as part of a lot and visually judging it to be NH.
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09:33:32am
A last comment on this from me. If you are "fixing" a stamp for your collection I can almost go along with it. But sooner or later someone will end up buying that stamp as MNH and depending on which stamp it is it could command a large premium. That to me is wrong! I remember when I bought my MNH well centered Bluenose I paid a good sized premium for it. I just looked and saw no problem, thankfully! If I had I would have been quite angry and might have spread the seller's name around a bit. I know of a local antique picker who got caught selling repaired items as perfect. No one trusted him or his items after that and most auctioneers refused to sell his items. He ended up leaving the area! I might be over doing this a bit but I really disagree with selling repaired stamps unless they are somehow marked! Some people who sell fake stamps mark them as such, maybe repaired stamps should have an "R" on the back - IMHO!!
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Erniejax said, “ This is PRECISELY why I prefer to purchase postally used. Besides, there's a certain charm to a stamp that has "done it's job".
Agreed, although I often collect both used and mint copies of the same stamps. I do prefer cancellations that don’t overwhelm the design, and I’m happiest if the cancellation is contemporaneous with the issue dates and usage. For example, I prefer roller cancellations on stamps like Canada’s Bluenose stamp because it was issued primarily for use on parcels.
I am not too fussy about gum. I’ll buy lightly hinged stamps and occasionally a heavy-hinged stamp as long there are no visible signs of hinging when the stamps are mounted or scanned. But I detest “unused” stamps (mint stamps that have had their gum removed); to me, they’re neither fish nor fowl. They’re like the mule, with neither pride of ancestry nor hope of paternity, according to my paternal grandfather. That’s an odd prejudice, given that I happily collect mint stamps that were issued without gum! And they say that there’s intelligent life on earth?
Bob
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Well chaps your comments are most refreshing it is a shame that a minor sign of a hinge placed on a mint stamp should be considered 2nd class, I understand the value changes depending on the date and country. Rich
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11:59:07am
Another "last comment". It seems very foolish that the lack of a very minor hinge mark can result in a 100% premium for certain stamps. No wonder stamps are messed with!!!
Edit: I don't go nuts looking for mint, on the classic stamps I like interesting post marks. I did decide to mostly get non classic material mint when ever possible. I also made some exceptions with the classics deciding to spend extra to get the QV Jubilee series mint because I thought the stamps looked better that way. It all depends on the mood of the collector and what he/she decides to spend at that time. I really have no exception to used stamps as long as I like the looks of the stamp. This is not a great picture but I really like the look of these stamps mint. A lot of the used copies I had originally had very ugly postmarks. Of these the $5 is MNH and some of the lower values as well.
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" it is a shame that a minor sign of a hinge placed on a mint stamp should be considered 2nd class, "
That ONLY applies to those who collect MNH; many of us don't care (see Bob I immediately above). I suspect that the deficit about which your post refers is the premium assigned to MNH stamps, at least for those of us who don't collect them.
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With early stamps there can be good reasons for removing hinge remnants from a mint stamp. Discoloration or toning and chemical changes can occur around the hinge. In some cases the gum itself may be a problem in which case removing the gum may benefit your collection although at a cost to the stamp's value.
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"I think I remember this being called a "sweat box"."
Thank you. I am having real trouble remembering names now.
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DannyS wrote, “In some cases the gum itself may be a problem in which case removing the gum may benefit your collection although at a cost to the stamp's value.”
Intentional removal of gum can be insurance in the case of classic issues or any stamps with thick gum, which can cause stamps to curl so much that they can’t be mounted safely. The gum of classic issues can dry and crack, and over time, like tectonic plates pulling apart, can pull paper fibres apart, creating cracks in the paper.
Bob
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Joe
I gotta take issue with "spreading the name around" on a mis Id'd stamp.The seller may have made an honest mistake. Assuming no prior problems with this seller, I'd give him/her the benefit of doubt. Notify him and ask for a refund. You may also be adding to the seller's knowledge base.
I'm just sayin.....no bias at all on my part. (Yeah....sure John!).
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05:47:46pm
Good point John, I probably wouldn't do it anyway. Unless it kept happening and I was 100% sure it was intentional!
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11:07:51am
Looking for some advice on how to remove the hinge gum left on a mint stamp after removal from a page without disturbing the original stamp gum, Rich
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re: Hinges on mint stamps
I have never seen any way to do what you are asking.
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This is my diabetic cat OBI! I think, therefore I am - I think! Descartes, sort of!
20 Aug 2024
11:52:02am
re: Hinges on mint stamps
I always assumed the mark is there forever and the stamp would be classified as mint hinged (MH). To avoid making this mark myself I always use black crystal mounting and now with US and Canada I use it for all stamps because I like the look. In some cases the mount is worth more than the stamp!! Only my opinion!!
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re: Hinges on mint stamps
Using a vapour bath can remove the signs of an old hinge but the gum will still look disturbed. (Sorry as I forget what we call the vapour bath in philatelic terms, but basically a sealed box with the the stamps above the level of the (warm) water and face down on whatever support you are using.) I have done this with early Thai mint stamps just for my own collection but it probably doesn't change mint hinged to mint unhinged.
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This is my diabetic cat OBI! I think, therefore I am - I think! Descartes, sort of!
20 Aug 2024
10:33:59pm
re: Hinges on mint stamps
I would be very careful doing something that affects the gum that is already there. I have no idea what this procedure does but what if it causes the gum to liquefy a little bit and it flows into some of the perfs. You would find it very hard to convince a potential buyer that the stamp has not been re-gummed. I might be totally out to lunch on your procedure but I would be very careful. I always leave the back of the stamp as I find it and concentrate on the front. But we are all different!! All is IMHO!!
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re: Hinges on mint stamps
"Sorry as I forget what we call the vapour bath in philatelic terms"
I think I remember this being called a "sweat box".
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07:29:12am
re: Hinges on mint stamps
One of the dealers at a monthly show I used to sell at could work miracles with stamp faults. He could turn a hinged stamp into a stamp that would pass as NH under cursory examination. If the hinge was still in place his work became almost undetectable. Note I said almost. Evidence of a prior hinge was a very subtle hinge shaped "shadow" which appeared visible under either watermark fluid or when viewed in a Signoscope.
He never claimed he could make a stamp NH, only improve the gum to light hinge. Questionable from an ethics standpoint if sold as LH - fraud if sold as NH. So if selling expensive stamps as NH it pays to give them a quick dip in watermark fluid or view them under a Signoscope.
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re: Hinges on mint stamps
This is PRECISELY why I prefer to purchase postally used. Besides, there's a certain charm to a stamp that has "done it's job".
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re: Hinges on mint stamps
Why is selling a stamp with hinge removed as LH (if there is a tell tale spot) as misleading when that is how LH stamps are created. Someone has done it at some point. Maybe I am missing something. I would consider using the term disturbed gum as more misleading.
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09:07:02am
re: Hinges on mint stamps
Al,
To me the difference is that a LH stamp is almost always obvious if you flip it upside down and glance at it in oblique light. The gum has a different gloss. When a perhaps heavy hinged stamp is improved a quick flip in oblique light shows an undisturbed gloss and usually requires further examination in watermark fluid or by signoscope to determine it was previously hinged.
At some point a dealer is going to sell it as NH through deceit or innocently buying it as part of a lot and visually judging it to be NH.
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This is my diabetic cat OBI! I think, therefore I am - I think! Descartes, sort of!
21 Aug 2024
09:33:32am
re: Hinges on mint stamps
A last comment on this from me. If you are "fixing" a stamp for your collection I can almost go along with it. But sooner or later someone will end up buying that stamp as MNH and depending on which stamp it is it could command a large premium. That to me is wrong! I remember when I bought my MNH well centered Bluenose I paid a good sized premium for it. I just looked and saw no problem, thankfully! If I had I would have been quite angry and might have spread the seller's name around a bit. I know of a local antique picker who got caught selling repaired items as perfect. No one trusted him or his items after that and most auctioneers refused to sell his items. He ended up leaving the area! I might be over doing this a bit but I really disagree with selling repaired stamps unless they are somehow marked! Some people who sell fake stamps mark them as such, maybe repaired stamps should have an "R" on the back - IMHO!!
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re: Hinges on mint stamps
Erniejax said, “ This is PRECISELY why I prefer to purchase postally used. Besides, there's a certain charm to a stamp that has "done it's job".
Agreed, although I often collect both used and mint copies of the same stamps. I do prefer cancellations that don’t overwhelm the design, and I’m happiest if the cancellation is contemporaneous with the issue dates and usage. For example, I prefer roller cancellations on stamps like Canada’s Bluenose stamp because it was issued primarily for use on parcels.
I am not too fussy about gum. I’ll buy lightly hinged stamps and occasionally a heavy-hinged stamp as long there are no visible signs of hinging when the stamps are mounted or scanned. But I detest “unused” stamps (mint stamps that have had their gum removed); to me, they’re neither fish nor fowl. They’re like the mule, with neither pride of ancestry nor hope of paternity, according to my paternal grandfather. That’s an odd prejudice, given that I happily collect mint stamps that were issued without gum! And they say that there’s intelligent life on earth?
Bob
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11:40:10am
re: Hinges on mint stamps
Well chaps your comments are most refreshing it is a shame that a minor sign of a hinge placed on a mint stamp should be considered 2nd class, I understand the value changes depending on the date and country. Rich
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This is my diabetic cat OBI! I think, therefore I am - I think! Descartes, sort of!
21 Aug 2024
11:59:07am
re: Hinges on mint stamps
Another "last comment". It seems very foolish that the lack of a very minor hinge mark can result in a 100% premium for certain stamps. No wonder stamps are messed with!!!
Edit: I don't go nuts looking for mint, on the classic stamps I like interesting post marks. I did decide to mostly get non classic material mint when ever possible. I also made some exceptions with the classics deciding to spend extra to get the QV Jubilee series mint because I thought the stamps looked better that way. It all depends on the mood of the collector and what he/she decides to spend at that time. I really have no exception to used stamps as long as I like the looks of the stamp. This is not a great picture but I really like the look of these stamps mint. A lot of the used copies I had originally had very ugly postmarks. Of these the $5 is MNH and some of the lower values as well.
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re: Hinges on mint stamps
" it is a shame that a minor sign of a hinge placed on a mint stamp should be considered 2nd class, "
That ONLY applies to those who collect MNH; many of us don't care (see Bob I immediately above). I suspect that the deficit about which your post refers is the premium assigned to MNH stamps, at least for those of us who don't collect them.
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re: Hinges on mint stamps
With early stamps there can be good reasons for removing hinge remnants from a mint stamp. Discoloration or toning and chemical changes can occur around the hinge. In some cases the gum itself may be a problem in which case removing the gum may benefit your collection although at a cost to the stamp's value.
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re: Hinges on mint stamps
"I think I remember this being called a "sweat box"."
Thank you. I am having real trouble remembering names now.
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re: Hinges on mint stamps
DannyS wrote, “In some cases the gum itself may be a problem in which case removing the gum may benefit your collection although at a cost to the stamp's value.”
Intentional removal of gum can be insurance in the case of classic issues or any stamps with thick gum, which can cause stamps to curl so much that they can’t be mounted safely. The gum of classic issues can dry and crack, and over time, like tectonic plates pulling apart, can pull paper fibres apart, creating cracks in the paper.
Bob
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re: Hinges on mint stamps
Joe
I gotta take issue with "spreading the name around" on a mis Id'd stamp.The seller may have made an honest mistake. Assuming no prior problems with this seller, I'd give him/her the benefit of doubt. Notify him and ask for a refund. You may also be adding to the seller's knowledge base.
I'm just sayin.....no bias at all on my part. (Yeah....sure John!).
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This is my diabetic cat OBI! I think, therefore I am - I think! Descartes, sort of!
22 Aug 2024
05:47:46pm
re: Hinges on mint stamps
Good point John, I probably wouldn't do it anyway. Unless it kept happening and I was 100% sure it was intentional!
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