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United States/Stamps : USA 1870-83

 

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sheepshanks
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14 Aug 2024
05:25:43pm
Some days I wonder if my brain cell is really working. Have now progressed from the 1890's into this mess of printings, special issues and secret marks.
Apart from having to soak hinges, bits of envelope and other sundry unidentified crud off a lot of the stamps, even before I attempt to try and identify various papers (think they will all end up as the cheapest variety) I refer to the diagram/illustrations and vague descriptions in the Scott catalogue, (have they never heard of arrows and enlarged images?)
I appreciate that they show the various types, but on a used stamp with the heavy cancellations of the period, not always easy to see the differences, colours again vary with age.
Fortunately nothing I have looked at so far seems to have a grill of any sort, although I'm probably not seeing it in some cases, but I would think, like engraved stamps, that touch would tell. Yes I have looked at all the old posts on grills.
Well will press on and hopefully get some in the correct places. Not that I am ever going to complete some of the Steiner pages, unless I win the lottery millions, when I shall employ someone to do the hard work.
Rant over.
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joesm

14 Aug 2024
05:53:57pm
re: USA 1870-83

In all of these years, I have found only one stamp with a grill. Good luck! Let us know if you find one.

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Harvey
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This is my diabetic cat OBI! I think, therefore I am - I think! Descartes, sort of!

14 Aug 2024
06:39:15pm
re: USA 1870-83

I'm looking at my Harris Liberty album and I think the only ones with a grill in those dates is the series 134 to 144. Sometimes the grill is a bit subtle but on the ones I have, #'s 134 to 139 and #144, it is there. The others are out of my price range but have a good look at any stamps from that time period that you have, you just never know!!!

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"As anyone who has ever been around a cat for any length of time well knows cats have enormous patience with the limitations of the humankind."
smauggie
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15 Aug 2024
09:11:57am
re: USA 1870-83

I sympathize. I have spent time puzzling over this series.

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cva59
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15 Aug 2024
05:57:44pm
re: USA 1870-83

Maybe 25 years ago, I purchased a very large lot from a collector (accumulator). Included were about 150 old time bundles tied with very old thread, from 1870 thru the 1880's. Over the years I have soaked them all and have come up with about 3,200 of US A46 plus others, like A44, A45 and a few others. They have all been placed on Vario stock sheets like the attached images. No I have not checked these out for grills or anything else. Can anyone offer a sure way to sort these out by type?

Thank you,
Paul

Image Not Found

Image Not Found

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ccndd
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15 Aug 2024
08:41:24pm

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re: USA 1870-83

Hi! Glad to help any collector of these 3 cent greens by either phone or Facebook Messenger. Typing is asking too much. Message us if you have interest. Chris

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ccndd
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16 Aug 2024
03:26:30pm

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re: USA 1870-83

Offer withdrawn as no one cares to communicate audibly. Sorry, Chris

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sheepshanks
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16 Aug 2024
04:19:17pm
re: USA 1870-83

Could be that no one has your 'phone number and that there are at least 35 John Dahlberg profiles on FB, which one is you?

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Harvey
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This is my diabetic cat OBI! I think, therefore I am - I think! Descartes, sort of!

16 Aug 2024
04:59:07pm
re: USA 1870-83

To add to Vic's comment, one day is hardly long enough to make a determination. There are some members who only check out SoR a couple times a week so maybe the person you're looking for is still out there!!
EDIT: To ID the green stamp properly you need to note the colour (green or blue green), the type of paper (hard or soft porous ), the presence or lack of a secret mark, presence of a grill or not and the type of grill. There are large variances in price for the various stamps and to do a proper job takes a fair bit of work and a good specialty catalog. I use a Scott's Specialized for US stamp IDs but maybe the regular Scott's is OK, I haven't checked!

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"As anyone who has ever been around a cat for any length of time well knows cats have enormous patience with the limitations of the humankind."
Harvey
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This is my diabetic cat OBI! I think, therefore I am - I think! Descartes, sort of!

17 Aug 2024
09:57:36pm
re: USA 1870-83

I just did a bit of checking and, assuming my wife and I didn't mess any of them up, and her patience was far superior to mine, I have 5 of the green/blue green ones (#'s 136, 147, 158, 184, 207)and #214 where the colour was changed to vermilion. The difference between the green and the blue green in 207 is fairly obvious and the grill on the first one is fairly subtle but it is there.

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"As anyone who has ever been around a cat for any length of time well knows cats have enormous patience with the limitations of the humankind."
HungaryForStamps
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18 Aug 2024
01:26:00pm
re: USA 1870-83

"Can anyone offer a sure way to sort these out by type?"



The sure way is process of elimination. Therenare online resources to help. Try the Swedish Tiger USA identifier pages, starting here with #136:

https://www.theswedishtiger.com/x1870a.h ...

If not a grill, move to next issue/page and see if #147, hard paper vs soft and whether it has secret mark. Etc.

Moderator - Link active


(Modified by Moderator on 2024-08-19 06:40:43)
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sheepshanks
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19 Aug 2024
11:30:03am
re: USA 1870-83

Think I have about sorted the various types, some a bit difficult because of heavy cancellations.
To my pleasant surprise actually found three grills as shown below. Sadly the 15 cent has a tear but nice to find anyway.
Image Not Found

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Harvey
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This is my diabetic cat OBI! I think, therefore I am - I think! Descartes, sort of!

19 Aug 2024
09:36:30pm
re: USA 1870-83

A really nice blue cancel on the third stamp!!
Probably #135, value $70 (2016 Scott's) with $10 included because of the blue postmark.

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"As anyone who has ever been around a cat for any length of time well knows cats have enormous patience with the limitations of the humankind."
sheepshanks
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20 Aug 2024
09:03:24am
re: USA 1870-83

I had got it marked as a 135.

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vinman
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20 Aug 2024
09:44:55am
re: USA 1870-83

On my screen your 3c green looks like it has a secret mark. The back of the stamp appears to be soft paper#184. Possibly a fake grill? Perfs on the left side also look too perfect.

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Harvey
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This is my diabetic cat OBI! I think, therefore I am - I think! Descartes, sort of!

20 Aug 2024
10:25:01am
re: USA 1870-83

I have, what is probably a very stupid question, about grills. I have two stamps in these series that are supposed to have grills but I can't see them anymore. I have never had infinite patience but my wife did and I find it hard to believe we would have been dumb enough to mislabel the couple stamps. Is it even remotely possible that under pressure in a stamp album that a grill could be either fully or partially pressed away. If this is possible it would show up more often in mint stamps where there was no ink to be picked up by the grill. Has anyone ever heard of this. I will eventually check these couple stamps (only two are "wrong", and thankfully cheaper ones) with watermark fluid to see if the grills are easier to see that way. Do any of you know if this can happen?

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"As anyone who has ever been around a cat for any length of time well knows cats have enormous patience with the limitations of the humankind."
banknoteguy
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Jack

20 Aug 2024
10:38:18am
re: USA 1870-83

On the 3c green, I agree with Vinman that it looks odd, the secret mark area on a grilled example should look like this:

Image Not Found

But the grill looks OK to me. I think the yellow color of the back is toning.

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banknoteguy
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Jack

20 Aug 2024
10:43:56am
re: USA 1870-83

The grills on this series of stamps S.134-144 are notoriously weak/partial. Particularly on the higher value ones. I would never buy one without a cert. They are also hard to photograph and scanning rarely works at all well.

It is certainly possible to press out a grill but I doubt very much if it could happen in an album -- maybe stored on its sides with a ton of weight on top for a long time. I Don't Want To See

Also the high value ones are commonly found with fake grills, less so the cheap ones but I have a 2c with a cert and a fake grill.

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banknoteguy
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Jack

20 Aug 2024
11:20:31am
re: USA 1870-83

I suppose it is possible that the 3c green with the secret mark could be a S.158e -- Continental Banknote Co. printing but with a grill. I have seen these sell for anywhere from $150-$500.

But the 158e (or any Continental printing with a grill) would be a J grill and the grill I see on this 3c green is too big to be a J grill. So, I don't know what it is.

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ccndd
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20 Aug 2024
12:56:21pm

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re: USA 1870-83

Hi! As far as not posting our phone number: it is available to any SOR member who messages us and asks for it. Didn't want to list it for the whole world to see. And on Facebook we are the only Delores Dahlberg to be found there. Chris

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Author/Postings
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sheepshanks

14 Aug 2024
05:25:43pm

Some days I wonder if my brain cell is really working. Have now progressed from the 1890's into this mess of printings, special issues and secret marks.
Apart from having to soak hinges, bits of envelope and other sundry unidentified crud off a lot of the stamps, even before I attempt to try and identify various papers (think they will all end up as the cheapest variety) I refer to the diagram/illustrations and vague descriptions in the Scott catalogue, (have they never heard of arrows and enlarged images?)
I appreciate that they show the various types, but on a used stamp with the heavy cancellations of the period, not always easy to see the differences, colours again vary with age.
Fortunately nothing I have looked at so far seems to have a grill of any sort, although I'm probably not seeing it in some cases, but I would think, like engraved stamps, that touch would tell. Yes I have looked at all the old posts on grills.
Well will press on and hopefully get some in the correct places. Not that I am ever going to complete some of the Steiner pages, unless I win the lottery millions, when I shall employ someone to do the hard work.
Rant over.

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joesm

14 Aug 2024
05:53:57pm

re: USA 1870-83

In all of these years, I have found only one stamp with a grill. Good luck! Let us know if you find one.

Like
Login to Like
this post

This is my diabetic cat OBI! I think, therefore I am - I think! Descartes, sort of!
14 Aug 2024
06:39:15pm

re: USA 1870-83

I'm looking at my Harris Liberty album and I think the only ones with a grill in those dates is the series 134 to 144. Sometimes the grill is a bit subtle but on the ones I have, #'s 134 to 139 and #144, it is there. The others are out of my price range but have a good look at any stamps from that time period that you have, you just never know!!!

Like 
1 Member
likes this post.
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"As anyone who has ever been around a cat for any length of time well knows cats have enormous patience with the limitations of the humankind."
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smauggie

15 Aug 2024
09:11:57am

re: USA 1870-83

I sympathize. I have spent time puzzling over this series.

Like 
1 Member
likes this post.
Login to Like.
Members Picture
cva59

15 Aug 2024
05:57:44pm

re: USA 1870-83

Maybe 25 years ago, I purchased a very large lot from a collector (accumulator). Included were about 150 old time bundles tied with very old thread, from 1870 thru the 1880's. Over the years I have soaked them all and have come up with about 3,200 of US A46 plus others, like A44, A45 and a few others. They have all been placed on Vario stock sheets like the attached images. No I have not checked these out for grills or anything else. Can anyone offer a sure way to sort these out by type?

Thank you,
Paul

Image Not Found

Image Not Found

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"https://www.etsy.com/shop/PaulsBunker?ref=seller-platform-mcnav"
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ccndd

15 Aug 2024
08:41:24pm

Approvals

re: USA 1870-83

Hi! Glad to help any collector of these 3 cent greens by either phone or Facebook Messenger. Typing is asking too much. Message us if you have interest. Chris

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1 Member
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ccndd

16 Aug 2024
03:26:30pm

Approvals

re: USA 1870-83

Offer withdrawn as no one cares to communicate audibly. Sorry, Chris

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sheepshanks

16 Aug 2024
04:19:17pm

re: USA 1870-83

Could be that no one has your 'phone number and that there are at least 35 John Dahlberg profiles on FB, which one is you?

Like 
1 Member
likes this post.
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This is my diabetic cat OBI! I think, therefore I am - I think! Descartes, sort of!
16 Aug 2024
04:59:07pm

re: USA 1870-83

To add to Vic's comment, one day is hardly long enough to make a determination. There are some members who only check out SoR a couple times a week so maybe the person you're looking for is still out there!!
EDIT: To ID the green stamp properly you need to note the colour (green or blue green), the type of paper (hard or soft porous ), the presence or lack of a secret mark, presence of a grill or not and the type of grill. There are large variances in price for the various stamps and to do a proper job takes a fair bit of work and a good specialty catalog. I use a Scott's Specialized for US stamp IDs but maybe the regular Scott's is OK, I haven't checked!

Like
Login to Like
this post

"As anyone who has ever been around a cat for any length of time well knows cats have enormous patience with the limitations of the humankind."

This is my diabetic cat OBI! I think, therefore I am - I think! Descartes, sort of!
17 Aug 2024
09:57:36pm

re: USA 1870-83

I just did a bit of checking and, assuming my wife and I didn't mess any of them up, and her patience was far superior to mine, I have 5 of the green/blue green ones (#'s 136, 147, 158, 184, 207)and #214 where the colour was changed to vermilion. The difference between the green and the blue green in 207 is fairly obvious and the grill on the first one is fairly subtle but it is there.

Like 
1 Member
likes this post.
Login to Like.

"As anyone who has ever been around a cat for any length of time well knows cats have enormous patience with the limitations of the humankind."
Members Picture
HungaryForStamps

18 Aug 2024
01:26:00pm

re: USA 1870-83

"Can anyone offer a sure way to sort these out by type?"



The sure way is process of elimination. Therenare online resources to help. Try the Swedish Tiger USA identifier pages, starting here with #136:

https://www.theswedishtiger.com/x1870a.h ...

If not a grill, move to next issue/page and see if #147, hard paper vs soft and whether it has secret mark. Etc.

Moderator - Link active


(Modified by Moderator on 2024-08-19 06:40:43)
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this post
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sheepshanks

19 Aug 2024
11:30:03am

re: USA 1870-83

Think I have about sorted the various types, some a bit difficult because of heavy cancellations.
To my pleasant surprise actually found three grills as shown below. Sadly the 15 cent has a tear but nice to find anyway.
Image Not Found

Like 
5 Members
like this post.
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This is my diabetic cat OBI! I think, therefore I am - I think! Descartes, sort of!
19 Aug 2024
09:36:30pm

re: USA 1870-83

A really nice blue cancel on the third stamp!!
Probably #135, value $70 (2016 Scott's) with $10 included because of the blue postmark.

Like
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"As anyone who has ever been around a cat for any length of time well knows cats have enormous patience with the limitations of the humankind."
Members Picture
sheepshanks

20 Aug 2024
09:03:24am

re: USA 1870-83

I had got it marked as a 135.

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vinman

20 Aug 2024
09:44:55am

re: USA 1870-83

On my screen your 3c green looks like it has a secret mark. The back of the stamp appears to be soft paper#184. Possibly a fake grill? Perfs on the left side also look too perfect.

Like 
1 Member
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"The best in Big Band and Swing Music WRDV.org"

wrdv.org/

This is my diabetic cat OBI! I think, therefore I am - I think! Descartes, sort of!
20 Aug 2024
10:25:01am

re: USA 1870-83

I have, what is probably a very stupid question, about grills. I have two stamps in these series that are supposed to have grills but I can't see them anymore. I have never had infinite patience but my wife did and I find it hard to believe we would have been dumb enough to mislabel the couple stamps. Is it even remotely possible that under pressure in a stamp album that a grill could be either fully or partially pressed away. If this is possible it would show up more often in mint stamps where there was no ink to be picked up by the grill. Has anyone ever heard of this. I will eventually check these couple stamps (only two are "wrong", and thankfully cheaper ones) with watermark fluid to see if the grills are easier to see that way. Do any of you know if this can happen?

Like
Login to Like
this post

"As anyone who has ever been around a cat for any length of time well knows cats have enormous patience with the limitations of the humankind."
Members Picture
banknoteguy

Jack
20 Aug 2024
10:38:18am

re: USA 1870-83

On the 3c green, I agree with Vinman that it looks odd, the secret mark area on a grilled example should look like this:

Image Not Found

But the grill looks OK to me. I think the yellow color of the back is toning.

Like 
1 Member
likes this post.
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Members Picture
banknoteguy

Jack
20 Aug 2024
10:43:56am

re: USA 1870-83

The grills on this series of stamps S.134-144 are notoriously weak/partial. Particularly on the higher value ones. I would never buy one without a cert. They are also hard to photograph and scanning rarely works at all well.

It is certainly possible to press out a grill but I doubt very much if it could happen in an album -- maybe stored on its sides with a ton of weight on top for a long time. I Don't Want To See

Also the high value ones are commonly found with fake grills, less so the cheap ones but I have a 2c with a cert and a fake grill.

Like
Login to Like
this post
Members Picture
banknoteguy

Jack
20 Aug 2024
11:20:31am

re: USA 1870-83

I suppose it is possible that the 3c green with the secret mark could be a S.158e -- Continental Banknote Co. printing but with a grill. I have seen these sell for anywhere from $150-$500.

But the 158e (or any Continental printing with a grill) would be a J grill and the grill I see on this 3c green is too big to be a J grill. So, I don't know what it is.

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this post
Members Picture
ccndd

20 Aug 2024
12:56:21pm

Approvals

re: USA 1870-83

Hi! As far as not posting our phone number: it is available to any SOR member who messages us and asks for it. Didn't want to list it for the whole world to see. And on Facebook we are the only Delores Dahlberg to be found there. Chris

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