Discussion - Member to Member Sales - Research Center
Discussion - Member to Member Sales - Research Center
Which I am not. Choices are: Rose Red, Deep Rose Red, or Orange Red
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If those are the choices, the top is rose red while the bottom is deep rose red. I'm no expert, but there is not a hint of orange.
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06:48:52pm
I have all three 56 (rose red), 56a (deep rose red) and 57 (orange red), I'm sorry I can't show a scan until this weekend, but the #57 is incredibly obviously orangish (not a real word). I'll post a scan Sunday evening but, trust me, joesm is right! Your two seem to be mint so mint values from 2023 Unitrade are (for VF) $20 (#56), $30 (#56a) and $120 (#57).
I managed to get a scan of what I believe to be the three colour varieties. The orange in the third stamp doesn't show up as well here as it does "in person" and of course Roy's point about oxidation has to be considered. The orange in the third stamp, as I am now looking at it, is definitely there but the other two, because of possible oxidation, may actually be the same stamp. So, for what it's worth, here they are! The third stamp has very ugly centering but I'm happy with it - you can't replace everything!
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Thanks folks!
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10:14:26am
"Choices are: Rose Red, Deep Rose Red, or Orange Red"
... and oxidized.
Any time there is red, orange, vermillion or a related color in the ink, one must allow for the possibility of oxidization (some call it sulphurization).
Note the evenness of the ink color in the top stamp. The darkest (most heavily inked) areas are the same shade as the light areas. In the bottom stamp, the heavily inked areas are a different shade from the light areas. This is most notably seen in the dog's fur. This is an indication that the ink has chemically altered over time in the bottom stamp.
Roy
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10:38:01am
Since we get so many of these "color variety" discussions, I followed up the above posting with a quick chat with ChatGPT to provide a quick reference. Here it is:
Does orange printing ink of the 19th century contain iron?
ChatGPT
Yes, orange printing ink from the 19th century often contained iron compounds. Iron oxide pigments were commonly used to produce orange hues in inks during that period. These pigments were valued for their stability and vibrant color, making them popular in various printing applications.
Are they prone to color changes over time?
ChatGPT
Yes, iron oxide pigments in orange printing inks from the 19th century can be prone to color changes over time. Factors such as exposure to light, air, humidity, and the presence of other chemicals can cause these pigments to oxidize or degrade, leading to fading or changes in color. For instance, iron oxide pigments might darken or develop a different hue as they age. Conservation efforts often take these factors into account to preserve historical documents and artworks.
What range of shades of colors might be expected to contain these iron oxides?
ChatGPT
Iron oxides can produce a variety of shades depending on their chemical composition and particle size. Common shades include:
Reds: Iron(III) oxide, also known as ferric oxide (Fe2O3), produces a range of red hues from bright red to dark, earthy red.
Yellows: Iron(III) hydroxide (FeO(OH)·nH2O) can yield yellow shades, commonly seen in pigments like yellow ochre.
Oranges: Mixtures of red and yellow iron oxides can produce various orange shades.
Browns: Combinations of iron oxides can create brown hues, ranging from light brown to dark, rich brown.
Blacks: Magnetite (Fe3O4) is an iron oxide that appears black and is used in some black pigments.
These colors are often used in inks, paints, and other materials for their stability and range of hues.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Roy
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I should have done this earlier, but I pulled out my Newfoundland collection. I have only one of the three varieties. It's a nice copy as far as the depiction goes. The pages I printed from the internet several years ago. There are three spaces for the varieties with the only one depicted being the orange and it is definitely orange. The other two spaces don't describe the colors at all. They are just spaces. The one that I have must have started out as the deep rose red but it has oxidized to black with a hint of that usual reddish/yellow oxidation in one corner.
The two copies that started this discussion are outstanding and look as fresh as the day they were printed. I would have to say that those are the proper colors. Now I know what goes in the three spaces.
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Well, also doing what I should have in the first place. In the 2024 Unitrade catalog, the rose red is no.56, the deep rose red is a variety of no. 56, 56a. No. 57 they call orange red but looks more orange. And, there is a black version, no. 58. So mine is legit, with a little oxidation in a corner and so are the original two, 56 and 56a! Looks like we have gotten to the bottom of it at last! LOL
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Which I am not. Choices are: Rose Red, Deep Rose Red, or Orange Red
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06:30:29pm
re: Need opinions from Newfoundland color experts
If those are the choices, the top is rose red while the bottom is deep rose red. I'm no expert, but there is not a hint of orange.
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Back when I had a bunch! I think, therefore I am - I think! Descartes, sort of!
01 Aug 2024
06:48:52pm
re: Need opinions from Newfoundland color experts
I have all three 56 (rose red), 56a (deep rose red) and 57 (orange red), I'm sorry I can't show a scan until this weekend, but the #57 is incredibly obviously orangish (not a real word). I'll post a scan Sunday evening but, trust me, joesm is right! Your two seem to be mint so mint values from 2023 Unitrade are (for VF) $20 (#56), $30 (#56a) and $120 (#57).
I managed to get a scan of what I believe to be the three colour varieties. The orange in the third stamp doesn't show up as well here as it does "in person" and of course Roy's point about oxidation has to be considered. The orange in the third stamp, as I am now looking at it, is definitely there but the other two, because of possible oxidation, may actually be the same stamp. So, for what it's worth, here they are! The third stamp has very ugly centering but I'm happy with it - you can't replace everything!
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re: Need opinions from Newfoundland color experts
Thanks folks!
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BuckaCover.com - 80,000 covers priced 60c to $1.50 - Easy browsing 500 categories
02 Aug 2024
10:14:26am
re: Need opinions from Newfoundland color experts
"Choices are: Rose Red, Deep Rose Red, or Orange Red"
... and oxidized.
Any time there is red, orange, vermillion or a related color in the ink, one must allow for the possibility of oxidization (some call it sulphurization).
Note the evenness of the ink color in the top stamp. The darkest (most heavily inked) areas are the same shade as the light areas. In the bottom stamp, the heavily inked areas are a different shade from the light areas. This is most notably seen in the dog's fur. This is an indication that the ink has chemically altered over time in the bottom stamp.
Roy
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BuckaCover.com - 80,000 covers priced 60c to $1.50 - Easy browsing 500 categories
02 Aug 2024
10:38:01am
re: Need opinions from Newfoundland color experts
Since we get so many of these "color variety" discussions, I followed up the above posting with a quick chat with ChatGPT to provide a quick reference. Here it is:
Does orange printing ink of the 19th century contain iron?
ChatGPT
Yes, orange printing ink from the 19th century often contained iron compounds. Iron oxide pigments were commonly used to produce orange hues in inks during that period. These pigments were valued for their stability and vibrant color, making them popular in various printing applications.
Are they prone to color changes over time?
ChatGPT
Yes, iron oxide pigments in orange printing inks from the 19th century can be prone to color changes over time. Factors such as exposure to light, air, humidity, and the presence of other chemicals can cause these pigments to oxidize or degrade, leading to fading or changes in color. For instance, iron oxide pigments might darken or develop a different hue as they age. Conservation efforts often take these factors into account to preserve historical documents and artworks.
What range of shades of colors might be expected to contain these iron oxides?
ChatGPT
Iron oxides can produce a variety of shades depending on their chemical composition and particle size. Common shades include:
Reds: Iron(III) oxide, also known as ferric oxide (Fe2O3), produces a range of red hues from bright red to dark, earthy red.
Yellows: Iron(III) hydroxide (FeO(OH)·nH2O) can yield yellow shades, commonly seen in pigments like yellow ochre.
Oranges: Mixtures of red and yellow iron oxides can produce various orange shades.
Browns: Combinations of iron oxides can create brown hues, ranging from light brown to dark, rich brown.
Blacks: Magnetite (Fe3O4) is an iron oxide that appears black and is used in some black pigments.
These colors are often used in inks, paints, and other materials for their stability and range of hues.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Roy
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05:43:28pm
re: Need opinions from Newfoundland color experts
I should have done this earlier, but I pulled out my Newfoundland collection. I have only one of the three varieties. It's a nice copy as far as the depiction goes. The pages I printed from the internet several years ago. There are three spaces for the varieties with the only one depicted being the orange and it is definitely orange. The other two spaces don't describe the colors at all. They are just spaces. The one that I have must have started out as the deep rose red but it has oxidized to black with a hint of that usual reddish/yellow oxidation in one corner.
The two copies that started this discussion are outstanding and look as fresh as the day they were printed. I would have to say that those are the proper colors. Now I know what goes in the three spaces.
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05:55:17pm
re: Need opinions from Newfoundland color experts
Well, also doing what I should have in the first place. In the 2024 Unitrade catalog, the rose red is no.56, the deep rose red is a variety of no. 56, 56a. No. 57 they call orange red but looks more orange. And, there is a black version, no. 58. So mine is legit, with a little oxidation in a corner and so are the original two, 56 and 56a! Looks like we have gotten to the bottom of it at last! LOL
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