Discussion - Member to Member Sales - Research Center
Discussion - Member to Member Sales - Research Center
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Most of the catalog prices do not change all that much..a dealer would want to keep up with the new issues and buy a set every year or two..but they can write them off as a business expense. I would rather spend on stamps and covers instead of new catalogs.
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I upgraded this year from 2020 to 2023. There hasn't been all that much, although here and there some changes are notable. Scortt, for example in 2023 increased the minimum value of MNH US stamps from 25 cents to 30 cents.
I had the 2017 set, and upgraded to 2020. There wasn't much activity there either, with some exceptions. The editor's letter is good to get a feel for changes made in a volume from the previous year.
If you want to upgrade, you can find a newer set from yours at a much discounted price.
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I have a set of 2017 scotts.
There is a company called Chirokmd in the US that breaks up the current Scotts catalogues into individual countries which I have found useful.
Here is a link to their website:-
https://scottcataloguepages.com/
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I have been buying a new set about every 5 years or so. My main reason was to have the updates for new issues, as I used to buy a lot of kiloware and wanted to ID the stamps. However, sources for kiloware that contain newer stamps have pretty much dried up, so unsure how often I would want new catalogs now. For older stamps, I have 2012 Scott Classic 1840-1940 I circle the stamps I have and use as a want list that I can carry to stamp shows. I do not know if I will ever upgrade that as it would be a lot of work transferring to a new one.
Josh
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Hi Steve.
Am a periodic buyer of your approval offerings. Based on the material I typically purchase from you, the 2016 set appears to still have utility as “middle market” material CV doesn’t seem to change much from year to year. Same re catalogue listings/number assignments.
On a personal note, my daughter likes to buy a new Scott set every 3 yrs or so. If it was up to me, would not update (replace) Scott set ever as “our” volumes are now filled with my post it’s.
This is not an anti catalogue posting as I have probably spent as much on specialty catalogues and assorted philatelic literature across the past three yrs than actual stamps.
Bottom line: Consider the number of stamps you will need to sell to pay for “new” Scott set.
Jim in Florida
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I seldom sell here, but I like being fairly up-to-date;
I am usually 5 yrs behind on Scott catalogs.
I update them normally every couple years or so with another used set at reasonable cost - usually spending no more than 60 bucks on a complete 7-Volume set.
However, with the advent of each of them becoming a 2-volume set - i.e. now 12 books - I seriously doubt I will jump into buying any more up to that point.
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each volume comes in a set. The price is for the entire volume. It is much easier using the catalogues as they are not a bulky. U unfortunately they removed the identifier from the catalogues. You have to buy that as a separate item, but there are advantages to that too. In the 2023 catalogues, they took the United Nations out of the US Specialized. I bought the 2023 United Nations Specialized. It has a few new things in it, but not much. Maybe in the future it will get better. It is only a matter of time before the US Specialized is split into two parts like the Standard Catalogues.
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I also have a 2017 set and do not think the prices are changing to any significant degree as I collect mostly common. Unless I see some great deal. I will keep using these.
I suspect each year the number of new catalog sets sold drops so availability in the second hand market will decline as well.
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08:32:15am
The last set I bought is 2017, I think that was the last year for 6 volumes. Now that it has been doubled if I buy more it will probably just be volumes for the areas I collect, maybe just the volume for Russia and Poland. I try to buy a new specialized catalog for Canada (UniTrade) and for the US (Scott's) every few years.
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I am in the 2017 gang...at one time our club purchased a "scratch and dent" set of catalogs from Scott or Amos Post for $150. I did not see any flaws in them.
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09:25:55am
Last set I bought was 2020. I buy one new volume every year. This way my oldest catalog is 6 years. I also buy the specialized catalogues every few of years so i buy 2 catalogs that those years.
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Thanks for all of the suggestions and ideas. I just checked a complete set of the 2023 catalogs is now on sale at AMOS and Subway as well - is about $600.00. Apparently the 2024 set is now out so they reduced the price on 2023. Obviously, I am not going to buy a complete set of 2023 at this time. I will perhaps start piecing together a set from 2020 or 2021 with used copies I see on EBAY. With the 12 books now instead of 6 - this may take some time to get them all at a reasonable price. Thanks, Steve
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I'm with Phil on this one and would much rather buy stamps than catalogs. Besides the fact I find Scott lacking a lot of information that should be in each and every issue, that most of the foreign catalogs do provide! If I acquire something special and want to keep abreast of the latest SCV I just go onto Hipstamps and check it out. Someone will have the stamp posted with the SCV and it doesn't take that much time to find a listing. I'm in the 2018 club because I found a set of them as "retired library books" and they work as well as can be expected!
Mike
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@Everyone
My take (my thinking only!) Scott Catalog is very good starting point for new collectors! There is a lot of good basic information there, but too bad as there is some errors and misleading information.
1898
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Occasionally older Scott catalogs show up on the freebee table at the APS. If there is any interest in older Scotts let me know and I will send the to you for the postage. Let me know what is the oldest you are interested in.
Vince
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I bought a set of 2022 catalogs when I retired at least partially because I was purchasing a large number of stamps from a local collector on an item by item basis and after checking some pricing of items decided that a more up to date catalog as a basis would be fairer to him since my set was from 2016 and his was even older. All told I spent about $6,000 on the stamps which materially changed the overall quality of my International collection for many countries. I have reached 49% completion for the International albums through 1963 with mint stamps. I haven't managed to calculate the catalog value for the collection except for the USA section in the Part 1A1 album pages for 1840-1940 which were a bit of a shock. I probably need to go through the rest of the collection and build a detailed inventory with catalog values for it as well as a future guide. It would be kind of nice to have the checklist as well.
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No
every 5 years is more than enough.
I once ran some tests comparing data for an area I collected (Europa) year by year over 10 years.
Price changes annually are most likely computer generated! Not even a very clever AI software.
I doubt that anyone checks all prices annually.
They do however target some specific areas for more rigorous updates, but not the majority of the data.
rrr...
PS: stamp clubs may qualify as non-profits to receive discarded Scott catalogs from your Public Library when they update to a more recent year. Some times, annually. The catalogs could be loaned or even sold at your club for individual personal use. Not for resale, which is prohibited.
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I sell a mostly Canada and Provinces up to 1945. I have the 2023 Unitrade catalog, and might upgrade every few years. For the rest I have a 7 year old set of Scott. Since I don't plan on moving beyond late 1940's in my store, I may not ever buy a more current set of Scott. And then it would be used.
I lot depends on what you are focusing on.
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"Price changes annually are most likely computer generated"
Do you think Scott updates prices based on the overall inflation rate?
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@bigcreekdad There is another thread somewhere on SOR where it sounds like Unitrade is going out of business, so this year's catalog may be the last.
Josh
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Harvey, it's still just 6 volumes.
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04:19:53pm
Michael, isn't it 6 volumes with each one having an A and a B to make 12 books? That's what I meant, sorry.
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I have a 2010 set. As I don't buy newer stamps, this works well for stamp identification. Stamp prices are not so much of a concern. I keep an eye on what is selling online for some items when I purchase, but I buy mostly for the enjoyment of collecting!
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Josh...that is definitely bad news. So much better than Scott.
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"Michael, isn't it 6 volumes with each one having an A and a B to make 12 books?"
Correct. They take up about the same shelf space as the single part volumes.
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Scott is desperately trying to avoid making a Volume Seven. They are delaying the inevitable. They have removed much of the key information from the 2024 volumes (we have the first two volumes at our stamp shop). They have also reduced the number of stamp images and have reduced the size of the stamp images.
David Giles
Chris Green Stamps
Ottawa, Canada
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What types of "key information" have they dropped from the 2024 cats? They dropped some from the 2023 too.
By how much over previous years have they reduced the images? Too many younger folks in the philatelic business forget what the average age of a collector is. They see through their younger eyes, and think it's all great. Older folks with their cataracts and such can't see things when they get too small.
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I use Stampworld to find issues it is far easier to scroll through to find the stamp(s) you are looking for as most have no date on them .then I check in Scott's.Also it is reasonably up to date with the new issues and of course they have their own numbering system .
Brian
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Another way to look at it is look at the original question - Does It Pay To Buy A New Set Of Scott Catalogs?
You could ask if you collection valuation or sales would be off more than $600 based upon the purchase? But then you could ask what would the resale value when you think you are going to buy another set.
What is the value of used catalogs?
for example (just a concept)
current year 100%
1 year old 80%
2 years old 60%
3 years old 40%
4 years old 20%
5 years old $50
does not include shipping.
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Another way, don't buy ever again, go to library and let the library spend the money.
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Our library and those around us don't carry any philatelic yearly catalogs anymore...
....not enough interest to warrant their purchase any more, they have told me.
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Too bad!
My library carry the Scott Cat. and are updated every second year!
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Find that person who buys a new set every year, and buy their old ones!
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12:50:32pm
The more I think about it the more I think I'll probably not buy any more Scott's. My latest cut off date is 1988 for Canada and even if they add or change a few earlier numbers or descriptions it shouldn't matter too much. The prices don't matter too much to me. The only pain is the disappearance of UniTrade! I wonder if Scott's still publishes it's US Specialized. My latest one of those is 2016, maybe it's time to get a new one of those. But since my US cut off is 1977 I guess that doesn't matter too much either.
As to libraries, most times that I haul out a catalog it's a spur of the moment thing to look up a number for something, or a price for a variety. Running into the Halifax library, since the local ones don't carry stamps catalogs, is at least an hour to get to the city and find parking! Hardly seems to be a good use of time. And to carry your stamps albums with you seems a bit silly! But, to each their own!! Have a great weekend!!
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Supplement to my previous post.
True some library's don't carry the Scott Catalog, but every library I know of has the Inner library loan progrm, and it's free!
1898
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This thread has made me stop and think...i know the stamps i want to purchase and the ones i do not want to...a current set of Scotts catalogs is not relevant to me. However, if a Good Deal Comes Along.
P.S. Our little library in Red Hook is not going to spend on a set of stamp catalogs and the larger library in Kingston New York is not going to let you sign out a reference book...so it would take many trips cross the bridge to use their catalogs.
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Michael:
They removed the same information at the front of the catalogue as in the 2023. I think they removed the Die Types for the British Commowealth at the front of each volume, but I cannot recall if they did that in 2023.
David
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Thank you Bob for reminding me about the library inner loan program.
1898
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The county library goes not carry any Scott catalogs. There is no reference section and almost no books on stamps as a hobby. I do not know if Scott Licenses an online library version.
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@Everyone
Free
Also use Google books again Free. In Google book I found the first edition of Scott Specialized Cat. of U.S. Stamps from 1923 (uses the old Scott Numbers. Interesting to read.
I thought google books was available in Canada, but from comments from Stamp-O-Rama members either it's not available or they just don't know about it, or just don't care. Research takes time!
1898
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Concerning the Interlibrary Loan Program provided by the US Library of Congress... here is the small print:
1) Interlibrary Loans to US libraries are free, however loans to libraries outside the US cost USD$24.
2) Requests can take 7-10 days to for a response as to whether or not the book is available, shipping to actually receive the book could take up to another four weeks (significantly longer if outside the US).
3) The books are loaned for a period of 60 days and the loan is not renewable.
4) The books are shipped to the requesting library and must be read at the library to which they are loaned (you don't get to take it home).
5) According to their online catalog, the latest available edition of Scott World catalog is 1933, and the latest available edition of the Scott US Specialized catalog is 1939.
Yes, research takes time.. it took me all of 3 minutes to find this information.
Cheers,
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@Terry
Excellent point, I never considered to point out the fine print, my fault! Because I'm military most of those fine print does not apply, so I'm always thinking military.
Thank you for pointing this out.
1898
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1898....what branch were you in, and what era?
BTW...thankyou for your service!
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@bigcreekdad
U. S. A. F. 1965-1988.
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Loans are great for short term needs where time (how soon you need it) is not critical. Colnect meets most needs (plus multiple catalogs) except for valuation. When I started collecting, I never owned a Scott catalog until much later. I used a dealer price book (Minnesota Stamp and Coin or Harris) for some values.
So to me then getting reasonable valuations is the only real issue. But then people to post questions on value for certain issues. So the question is how to people obtain valuations (search ebay, hipstamp, dealer price lists. etc).
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If your collection interests are limited, you can still buy the latest "slice" from the very latest catalog on ebay from "chirokmd".
You can also buy directly from their website and save some extra money.
Here is an offer for Club members who have narrower needs. I have updated to 2022, so I am currently cutting up my 2018 catalog as I put the country pages of interest in front of my stamp albums for my own convenience, but this is pretty selective. So I probably have 3/4 of my 2018 12 volume albums available for those who need a slice or more and don't want to buy the whole catalog.
This is free to you, except for postage.
Message me here if you want any country that I may not plan to cut out for my own use. I will not list all here, but as I said, more than 3/4 of my catalog is available this way. Virtually all of Asia, Africa, UK and all related, US, Canada,(by slices if you want), etc.. for guidance, not available probably are French, Portuguese, Spanish colonies, and Latin America
rrr..
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CHIROKMD has made a business selling extracts and have not seen anyone trying to compete with him.
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I will repost my free slices of 2018 catalog pages offer under a separate heading.
rrr...
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Let's see how that works out.
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I never buy new Scott catalogs. Its just not worth it if you don't collect new issues. Prices don't change that much and auction sites, i.e., completed auctions, are good for gauging price when the stamp is worth the effort. The last set of Scott catalogs I bought, for a pittance, was from a library that was updating their reference books and the catalogs were a few years out of date. Specialist catalogs might be a different deal if there are improvements, translations to English, etc. Specialized catalogs from Michel and other publishers don't necessarily come out every year or even every decade (I think).
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@HungaryForStamps
If I was in the market to but a stamp, the last place I would would be the Scott Catalog.
I don't know how long it's been, but a very long time since Scott bought and sold stamps and coins! Scott does market research for stamps, but by the time a new catalog come out upwards of a year more has passed their research is way outdated.
1898
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1898, I'm not sure exactly what you mean by buying a stamp from a catalog. I wasn't suggesting that at all. The only real need for current catalogs is if you are collecting current issues or if you are pricing stamps. My point was merely that I don't collect current issues and Scott prices are not worth all that much to start with. If the stamp is common, which most are, the prices are more or less nominal and not much different than an old catalog. If the stamp is expensive, lets say $50 or more, then current pricing is easily enough found from completed listings on auction sites.
Almost everyone uses catalogs for identification and ordering of stamps within their collection. That is the primary usage for me and does not change all that often when collecting the classics.
That's why, for my tastes, unless some new discovery is found, or Scott numbering changes for the classics, I don't need a new set of catalogs. Every ten years or so is good enough. The specialist catalogs are often a necessity though as I am always on the lookout for a translation (makes it way easier than reading German for example).
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@HungaryForStamps
I meant to say, I pay no attention to the prices in the Scott Catalog.
I buy a new Scott every 10 years.
1898
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04:27:30am
]'' ...If the stamp is expensive, .................. then current pricing is easily enough found from completed listings on auction site....''
And both far more accurate and current.
I cannot recall buying a new Scott. For the last 60 years I've been successful and satisfied with a few year old volume.
An easy and ine*pensive way to keep up with current US issues is to keep an account
with Mystic or Kenmore Stamps. they issue a full color magazine style catalog that covers all US stamps. Usually free to regular customers.
YES, they send approvals, somewhat overpriced, but they can be returned, but every so often a selection might just ring the philatelic chime and can fill an open space.
I am quite sure that a few purchases and free magazine catalog is less than buying a Scott catalog every year or two.
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Many sellers in US rely on the Scott catalog to price stamps and often tout them based upon some percentage of Scott value.
For example, if I sold Mint NH modern US stamps at face value, it would be priced at 50% Scott. (Scott automatically prices stamp at 2x face even stamps still on sale at the PO).
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For those new issues (and any issue really) Scott is building in the sales costs on top of the value. For common issues, which probably includes modern issues, the Scott prices are not very useful. They provide a guide for more expensive stamps, but in practice the values largely depend on quality. That's why, if buying something more expensive, like a US #1, while Scott might quote $500 for used, VF condition (I don't know what the current Scott value is BTW), by attending or examining auctions or results, you might get a better idea what you should actually pay for a particular item.
Other than that, Scott prices might be useful for ball park valuations of collections. I've done that to arrive at a max price I will pay on Ebay for example: sum up the value of the less common stamps, then add a multiplier for the common stamps to arrive at a ball park price, then take a percentage of that for quality, unknowns whatever.
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"Scott is building in the sales costs on top of the value"
This appears their statement on "dealer pricing" but for most modern US dealers will not even pay face value (say 50 to 60% of FV) and then sell at 2x face so markup is actually more.
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I have always used Stanley Gibbons catalogues for listing my collection, other than Swiss stamps where I use the Michel Specialized catalogue. One advantage of Stanley Gibbons is that besides publishing catalogues they also sell stamps and I have on occasion purchased British stamps from them when unavailable elsewhere. This probably is an indication that their prices may be a reflection of actual selling value, or a good starting point for valuation purposes. Our local reference library in Toronto keeps up-to-date copies of Stanley Gibbons World Catalogue and Scotts World Catalogues so I have access to current listings and reference to catalogue numbers without having to purchase current catalogues.
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01:45:47pm
"Our local reference library in Toronto keeps up-to-date copies of Stanley Gibbons World Catalogue and Scotts World Catalogues so I have access to current listings and reference to catalogue numbers without having to purchase current catalogues."
So many people are saying this that I'm curious about one thing. Do you take your stamps and albums to the library to work on collection or do you just look the stamps up there, write the numbers down and then put the stamps in at home? I like doing all this in front of the computer watching stuff on YouTube. We're all different I guess!!
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My pet peeve about catalogs at all is the fact they are the ones raising the stamp prices. I know, they purportedly say "We get our information from thousands of dealers, etc, etc, etc.". But honestly, how many dealers do you know, with all of the man hours needed to supply information that would be needed to print a new catalog each and every year? I can't just imagine 100,000 dealers rushing to inform Scott's, for example, how much they sold stamps for and the condition of each and every stamp. If that is the case, why do catalog values fluctuate for one country, as an example again, enough to raise, or even lower the values of that country to the point that country is now too expensive or everyone is rushing in to buy their stamps. Or is it just an illusion we all accept for price increases, so our stamps are now worth more, at least for dealers who can raise the value of new price changes, but don't automatically lower prices to the buying public?
To improve catalogs and I would point the finger at Scott's, since they are the catalog for most stamps in this country, to improve the information you put in your catalog, much like the foreign catalogs do, showing almost virtually every stamp in every set, instead of just showing one stamp out of the set and more often than not it is not the first stamp of the set. After all, what did they do to help collectors, besides double the amount of catalogs from 6 to 12? I wonder if they lost a lot of sales to that revenue maker for them?
When all is said and done, catalogs are only suggested prices, except for the people that don't mind paying full catalog value for stamps and since most of us buy on SOR, Hipstamps, Ebay, or any number of auction sites around and don't even pay anywhere retail prices.
Well, I feel better and got a load off of my chest, but there are probably many of you that have a totally different opinion than mine, so let's hear it!!!! ROAR
Mike
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@CapeStampMan
Well said, top drawer, better than I could have done!
Grading standards I think (Just my thinking) should be changed a little. I'm only talking about United States of America stamps before 1920.
There are some stamps where it's estimated 95% of them come off centered, the other 5 percent come well centered and should be graded high. The other 95% without faults, heavy canccels etc. and etc. should be considered than what they are. Many Washington/Franklin head stamps most come off centered. There are many more examples but you get the idea.
This is just my idea, if you don't agree with that's good, no problem.
What do you think?
My thinking is based on over 60 years of stamp collecting, and my experiences working for 2 stamp dealers hired to identify the Washington/Franklin head stamps 1902-1921, and stamps in general.
1898
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I would say it does not pay...except possibly for a very small percentage of collectors. I have always seemed to do well with sets that are 2 or 3 years old. And remember a set of catalogs were a whole lot less expensive say 30 years ago.
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I have a copy of Stanley Gibbons 1919 Rest of the World Stamp Catalogue and the amount of detail in that puts their current "specialized" catalogues to shame.
Of course the "prices" are way out of date but the colour variations and perf details are superb.
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Am I correct in thinking that Scott doesn't actually sell stamps?
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Amos Media (Scott) does not sell stamps.
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In addition Scott does not buy stamps anymore.
1898
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" besides double the amount of catalogs from 6 to 12"
There are 6 volumes in two parts each. Yes that totals 12 catalogues, but the pricing didn't change. It's not double.
Scott doesn't update all the countries each year. They select certain countries and areas to review. Sometimes it can be many years before pricing on less popular countries are reviewed and updated. Another reason why you don't truly get the value for how much you pay if you buy a set annually. One set every 3 to 5 years would be more cost effective.
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The way I see it you probably need a current catalog if you are a dealer, but if what you want is up to date stamp info there are plenty of sites in the net to provide that and on top of that you can buy stamps from many sites at a fraction of the catalog price, most stamp forums have a marketplace section where stamps are easy to get plus you get a picture of the stamp that you are actually getting.
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Approvals
Just looking to see what others (especially sellers) think about it. My last complete set of Scott Catalog's are from 2016. I have been thinking that perhaps they are getting too old. I only deal with older issues going into the 1970's (maybe some 1980's). Has there been much price change in recent years in the catalogs for the older material ? Getting a complete new set is very expensive - so perhaps I should consider piecing a set together for an older year like 2021. Do you think using the 2016 set I have is good enough to price out the stamps as I create approval books here ? Thanks, Steve
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Auctions
re: Does It Pay To Buy A New Set Of Scott Catalogs
Most of the catalog prices do not change all that much..a dealer would want to keep up with the new issues and buy a set every year or two..but they can write them off as a business expense. I would rather spend on stamps and covers instead of new catalogs.
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09:40:50pm
re: Does It Pay To Buy A New Set Of Scott Catalogs
I upgraded this year from 2020 to 2023. There hasn't been all that much, although here and there some changes are notable. Scortt, for example in 2023 increased the minimum value of MNH US stamps from 25 cents to 30 cents.
I had the 2017 set, and upgraded to 2020. There wasn't much activity there either, with some exceptions. The editor's letter is good to get a feel for changes made in a volume from the previous year.
If you want to upgrade, you can find a newer set from yours at a much discounted price.
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05:32:16am
Auctions - Approvals
re: Does It Pay To Buy A New Set Of Scott Catalogs
I have a set of 2017 scotts.
There is a company called Chirokmd in the US that breaks up the current Scotts catalogues into individual countries which I have found useful.
Here is a link to their website:-
https://scottcataloguepages.com/
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re: Does It Pay To Buy A New Set Of Scott Catalogs
I have been buying a new set about every 5 years or so. My main reason was to have the updates for new issues, as I used to buy a lot of kiloware and wanted to ID the stamps. However, sources for kiloware that contain newer stamps have pretty much dried up, so unsure how often I would want new catalogs now. For older stamps, I have 2012 Scott Classic 1840-1940 I circle the stamps I have and use as a want list that I can carry to stamp shows. I do not know if I will ever upgrade that as it would be a lot of work transferring to a new one.
Josh
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07:52:51am
re: Does It Pay To Buy A New Set Of Scott Catalogs
Hi Steve.
Am a periodic buyer of your approval offerings. Based on the material I typically purchase from you, the 2016 set appears to still have utility as “middle market” material CV doesn’t seem to change much from year to year. Same re catalogue listings/number assignments.
On a personal note, my daughter likes to buy a new Scott set every 3 yrs or so. If it was up to me, would not update (replace) Scott set ever as “our” volumes are now filled with my post it’s.
This is not an anti catalogue posting as I have probably spent as much on specialty catalogues and assorted philatelic literature across the past three yrs than actual stamps.
Bottom line: Consider the number of stamps you will need to sell to pay for “new” Scott set.
Jim in Florida
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re: Does It Pay To Buy A New Set Of Scott Catalogs
I seldom sell here, but I like being fairly up-to-date;
I am usually 5 yrs behind on Scott catalogs.
I update them normally every couple years or so with another used set at reasonable cost - usually spending no more than 60 bucks on a complete 7-Volume set.
However, with the advent of each of them becoming a 2-volume set - i.e. now 12 books - I seriously doubt I will jump into buying any more up to that point.
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08:22:35am
re: Does It Pay To Buy A New Set Of Scott Catalogs
each volume comes in a set. The price is for the entire volume. It is much easier using the catalogues as they are not a bulky. U unfortunately they removed the identifier from the catalogues. You have to buy that as a separate item, but there are advantages to that too. In the 2023 catalogues, they took the United Nations out of the US Specialized. I bought the 2023 United Nations Specialized. It has a few new things in it, but not much. Maybe in the future it will get better. It is only a matter of time before the US Specialized is split into two parts like the Standard Catalogues.
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re: Does It Pay To Buy A New Set Of Scott Catalogs
I also have a 2017 set and do not think the prices are changing to any significant degree as I collect mostly common. Unless I see some great deal. I will keep using these.
I suspect each year the number of new catalog sets sold drops so availability in the second hand market will decline as well.
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This is my diabetic cat OBI! I think, therefore I am - I think! Descartes, sort of!
30 Jun 2023
08:32:15am
re: Does It Pay To Buy A New Set Of Scott Catalogs
The last set I bought is 2017, I think that was the last year for 6 volumes. Now that it has been doubled if I buy more it will probably just be volumes for the areas I collect, maybe just the volume for Russia and Poland. I try to buy a new specialized catalog for Canada (UniTrade) and for the US (Scott's) every few years.
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re: Does It Pay To Buy A New Set Of Scott Catalogs
I am in the 2017 gang...at one time our club purchased a "scratch and dent" set of catalogs from Scott or Amos Post for $150. I did not see any flaws in them.
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Immediate Past President - West Essex Philatelic Society www.wepsonline.org
30 Jun 2023
09:25:55am
re: Does It Pay To Buy A New Set Of Scott Catalogs
Last set I bought was 2020. I buy one new volume every year. This way my oldest catalog is 6 years. I also buy the specialized catalogues every few of years so i buy 2 catalogs that those years.
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re: Does It Pay To Buy A New Set Of Scott Catalogs
Thanks for all of the suggestions and ideas. I just checked a complete set of the 2023 catalogs is now on sale at AMOS and Subway as well - is about $600.00. Apparently the 2024 set is now out so they reduced the price on 2023. Obviously, I am not going to buy a complete set of 2023 at this time. I will perhaps start piecing together a set from 2020 or 2021 with used copies I see on EBAY. With the 12 books now instead of 6 - this may take some time to get them all at a reasonable price. Thanks, Steve
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re: Does It Pay To Buy A New Set Of Scott Catalogs
I'm with Phil on this one and would much rather buy stamps than catalogs. Besides the fact I find Scott lacking a lot of information that should be in each and every issue, that most of the foreign catalogs do provide! If I acquire something special and want to keep abreast of the latest SCV I just go onto Hipstamps and check it out. Someone will have the stamp posted with the SCV and it doesn't take that much time to find a listing. I'm in the 2018 club because I found a set of them as "retired library books" and they work as well as can be expected!
Mike
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10:38:42am
re: Does It Pay To Buy A New Set Of Scott Catalogs
@Everyone
My take (my thinking only!) Scott Catalog is very good starting point for new collectors! There is a lot of good basic information there, but too bad as there is some errors and misleading information.
1898
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re: Does It Pay To Buy A New Set Of Scott Catalogs
Occasionally older Scott catalogs show up on the freebee table at the APS. If there is any interest in older Scotts let me know and I will send the to you for the postage. Let me know what is the oldest you are interested in.
Vince
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re: Does It Pay To Buy A New Set Of Scott Catalogs
I bought a set of 2022 catalogs when I retired at least partially because I was purchasing a large number of stamps from a local collector on an item by item basis and after checking some pricing of items decided that a more up to date catalog as a basis would be fairer to him since my set was from 2016 and his was even older. All told I spent about $6,000 on the stamps which materially changed the overall quality of my International collection for many countries. I have reached 49% completion for the International albums through 1963 with mint stamps. I haven't managed to calculate the catalog value for the collection except for the USA section in the Part 1A1 album pages for 1840-1940 which were a bit of a shock. I probably need to go through the rest of the collection and build a detailed inventory with catalog values for it as well as a future guide. It would be kind of nice to have the checklist as well.
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re: Does It Pay To Buy A New Set Of Scott Catalogs
No
every 5 years is more than enough.
I once ran some tests comparing data for an area I collected (Europa) year by year over 10 years.
Price changes annually are most likely computer generated! Not even a very clever AI software.
I doubt that anyone checks all prices annually.
They do however target some specific areas for more rigorous updates, but not the majority of the data.
rrr...
PS: stamp clubs may qualify as non-profits to receive discarded Scott catalogs from your Public Library when they update to a more recent year. Some times, annually. The catalogs could be loaned or even sold at your club for individual personal use. Not for resale, which is prohibited.
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re: Does It Pay To Buy A New Set Of Scott Catalogs
I sell a mostly Canada and Provinces up to 1945. I have the 2023 Unitrade catalog, and might upgrade every few years. For the rest I have a 7 year old set of Scott. Since I don't plan on moving beyond late 1940's in my store, I may not ever buy a more current set of Scott. And then it would be used.
I lot depends on what you are focusing on.
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re: Does It Pay To Buy A New Set Of Scott Catalogs
"Price changes annually are most likely computer generated"
Do you think Scott updates prices based on the overall inflation rate?
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re: Does It Pay To Buy A New Set Of Scott Catalogs
@bigcreekdad There is another thread somewhere on SOR where it sounds like Unitrade is going out of business, so this year's catalog may be the last.
Josh
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04:08:14pm
re: Does It Pay To Buy A New Set Of Scott Catalogs
Harvey, it's still just 6 volumes.
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This is my diabetic cat OBI! I think, therefore I am - I think! Descartes, sort of!
30 Jun 2023
04:19:53pm
re: Does It Pay To Buy A New Set Of Scott Catalogs
Michael, isn't it 6 volumes with each one having an A and a B to make 12 books? That's what I meant, sorry.
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re: Does It Pay To Buy A New Set Of Scott Catalogs
I have a 2010 set. As I don't buy newer stamps, this works well for stamp identification. Stamp prices are not so much of a concern. I keep an eye on what is selling online for some items when I purchase, but I buy mostly for the enjoyment of collecting!
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re: Does It Pay To Buy A New Set Of Scott Catalogs
Josh...that is definitely bad news. So much better than Scott.
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07:25:48pm
re: Does It Pay To Buy A New Set Of Scott Catalogs
"Michael, isn't it 6 volumes with each one having an A and a B to make 12 books?"
Correct. They take up about the same shelf space as the single part volumes.
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re: Does It Pay To Buy A New Set Of Scott Catalogs
Scott is desperately trying to avoid making a Volume Seven. They are delaying the inevitable. They have removed much of the key information from the 2024 volumes (we have the first two volumes at our stamp shop). They have also reduced the number of stamp images and have reduced the size of the stamp images.
David Giles
Chris Green Stamps
Ottawa, Canada
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11:46:41pm
re: Does It Pay To Buy A New Set Of Scott Catalogs
What types of "key information" have they dropped from the 2024 cats? They dropped some from the 2023 too.
By how much over previous years have they reduced the images? Too many younger folks in the philatelic business forget what the average age of a collector is. They see through their younger eyes, and think it's all great. Older folks with their cataracts and such can't see things when they get too small.
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re: Does It Pay To Buy A New Set Of Scott Catalogs
I use Stampworld to find issues it is far easier to scroll through to find the stamp(s) you are looking for as most have no date on them .then I check in Scott's.Also it is reasonably up to date with the new issues and of course they have their own numbering system .
Brian
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re: Does It Pay To Buy A New Set Of Scott Catalogs
Another way to look at it is look at the original question - Does It Pay To Buy A New Set Of Scott Catalogs?
You could ask if you collection valuation or sales would be off more than $600 based upon the purchase? But then you could ask what would the resale value when you think you are going to buy another set.
What is the value of used catalogs?
for example (just a concept)
current year 100%
1 year old 80%
2 years old 60%
3 years old 40%
4 years old 20%
5 years old $50
does not include shipping.
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09:13:58am
re: Does It Pay To Buy A New Set Of Scott Catalogs
Another way, don't buy ever again, go to library and let the library spend the money.
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re: Does It Pay To Buy A New Set Of Scott Catalogs
Our library and those around us don't carry any philatelic yearly catalogs anymore...
....not enough interest to warrant their purchase any more, they have told me.
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11:14:46am
re: Does It Pay To Buy A New Set Of Scott Catalogs
Too bad!
My library carry the Scott Cat. and are updated every second year!
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re: Does It Pay To Buy A New Set Of Scott Catalogs
Find that person who buys a new set every year, and buy their old ones!
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This is my diabetic cat OBI! I think, therefore I am - I think! Descartes, sort of!
01 Jul 2023
12:50:32pm
re: Does It Pay To Buy A New Set Of Scott Catalogs
The more I think about it the more I think I'll probably not buy any more Scott's. My latest cut off date is 1988 for Canada and even if they add or change a few earlier numbers or descriptions it shouldn't matter too much. The prices don't matter too much to me. The only pain is the disappearance of UniTrade! I wonder if Scott's still publishes it's US Specialized. My latest one of those is 2016, maybe it's time to get a new one of those. But since my US cut off is 1977 I guess that doesn't matter too much either.
As to libraries, most times that I haul out a catalog it's a spur of the moment thing to look up a number for something, or a price for a variety. Running into the Halifax library, since the local ones don't carry stamps catalogs, is at least an hour to get to the city and find parking! Hardly seems to be a good use of time. And to carry your stamps albums with you seems a bit silly! But, to each their own!! Have a great weekend!!
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01:32:01pm
re: Does It Pay To Buy A New Set Of Scott Catalogs
Supplement to my previous post.
True some library's don't carry the Scott Catalog, but every library I know of has the Inner library loan progrm, and it's free!
1898
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re: Does It Pay To Buy A New Set Of Scott Catalogs
This thread has made me stop and think...i know the stamps i want to purchase and the ones i do not want to...a current set of Scotts catalogs is not relevant to me. However, if a Good Deal Comes Along. P.S. Our little library in Red Hook is not going to spend on a set of stamp catalogs and the larger library in Kingston New York is not going to let you sign out a reference book...so it would take many trips cross the bridge to use their catalogs.
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re: Does It Pay To Buy A New Set Of Scott Catalogs
Michael:
They removed the same information at the front of the catalogue as in the 2023. I think they removed the Die Types for the British Commowealth at the front of each volume, but I cannot recall if they did that in 2023.
David
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07:54:24pm
re: Does It Pay To Buy A New Set Of Scott Catalogs
Thank you Bob for reminding me about the library inner loan program.
1898
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re: Does It Pay To Buy A New Set Of Scott Catalogs
The county library goes not carry any Scott catalogs. There is no reference section and almost no books on stamps as a hobby. I do not know if Scott Licenses an online library version.
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09:38:46am
re: Does It Pay To Buy A New Set Of Scott Catalogs
@Everyone
Free
Also use Google books again Free. In Google book I found the first edition of Scott Specialized Cat. of U.S. Stamps from 1923 (uses the old Scott Numbers. Interesting to read.
I thought google books was available in Canada, but from comments from Stamp-O-Rama members either it's not available or they just don't know about it, or just don't care. Research takes time!
1898
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re: Does It Pay To Buy A New Set Of Scott Catalogs
Concerning the Interlibrary Loan Program provided by the US Library of Congress... here is the small print:
1) Interlibrary Loans to US libraries are free, however loans to libraries outside the US cost USD$24.
2) Requests can take 7-10 days to for a response as to whether or not the book is available, shipping to actually receive the book could take up to another four weeks (significantly longer if outside the US).
3) The books are loaned for a period of 60 days and the loan is not renewable.
4) The books are shipped to the requesting library and must be read at the library to which they are loaned (you don't get to take it home).
5) According to their online catalog, the latest available edition of Scott World catalog is 1933, and the latest available edition of the Scott US Specialized catalog is 1939.
Yes, research takes time.. it took me all of 3 minutes to find this information.
Cheers,
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01:30:10pm
re: Does It Pay To Buy A New Set Of Scott Catalogs
@Terry
Excellent point, I never considered to point out the fine print, my fault! Because I'm military most of those fine print does not apply, so I'm always thinking military.
Thank you for pointing this out.
1898
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re: Does It Pay To Buy A New Set Of Scott Catalogs
1898....what branch were you in, and what era?
BTW...thankyou for your service!
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06:29:06pm
re: Does It Pay To Buy A New Set Of Scott Catalogs
@bigcreekdad
U. S. A. F. 1965-1988.
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re: Does It Pay To Buy A New Set Of Scott Catalogs
Loans are great for short term needs where time (how soon you need it) is not critical. Colnect meets most needs (plus multiple catalogs) except for valuation. When I started collecting, I never owned a Scott catalog until much later. I used a dealer price book (Minnesota Stamp and Coin or Harris) for some values.
So to me then getting reasonable valuations is the only real issue. But then people to post questions on value for certain issues. So the question is how to people obtain valuations (search ebay, hipstamp, dealer price lists. etc).
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re: Does It Pay To Buy A New Set Of Scott Catalogs
If your collection interests are limited, you can still buy the latest "slice" from the very latest catalog on ebay from "chirokmd".
You can also buy directly from their website and save some extra money.
Here is an offer for Club members who have narrower needs. I have updated to 2022, so I am currently cutting up my 2018 catalog as I put the country pages of interest in front of my stamp albums for my own convenience, but this is pretty selective. So I probably have 3/4 of my 2018 12 volume albums available for those who need a slice or more and don't want to buy the whole catalog.
This is free to you, except for postage.
Message me here if you want any country that I may not plan to cut out for my own use. I will not list all here, but as I said, more than 3/4 of my catalog is available this way. Virtually all of Asia, Africa, UK and all related, US, Canada,(by slices if you want), etc.. for guidance, not available probably are French, Portuguese, Spanish colonies, and Latin America
rrr..
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re: Does It Pay To Buy A New Set Of Scott Catalogs
CHIROKMD has made a business selling extracts and have not seen anyone trying to compete with him.
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re: Does It Pay To Buy A New Set Of Scott Catalogs
I will repost my free slices of 2018 catalog pages offer under a separate heading.
rrr...
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re: Does It Pay To Buy A New Set Of Scott Catalogs
Let's see how that works out.
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re: Does It Pay To Buy A New Set Of Scott Catalogs
I never buy new Scott catalogs. Its just not worth it if you don't collect new issues. Prices don't change that much and auction sites, i.e., completed auctions, are good for gauging price when the stamp is worth the effort. The last set of Scott catalogs I bought, for a pittance, was from a library that was updating their reference books and the catalogs were a few years out of date. Specialist catalogs might be a different deal if there are improvements, translations to English, etc. Specialized catalogs from Michel and other publishers don't necessarily come out every year or even every decade (I think).
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05:35:45pm
re: Does It Pay To Buy A New Set Of Scott Catalogs
@HungaryForStamps
If I was in the market to but a stamp, the last place I would would be the Scott Catalog.
I don't know how long it's been, but a very long time since Scott bought and sold stamps and coins! Scott does market research for stamps, but by the time a new catalog come out upwards of a year more has passed their research is way outdated.
1898
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re: Does It Pay To Buy A New Set Of Scott Catalogs
1898, I'm not sure exactly what you mean by buying a stamp from a catalog. I wasn't suggesting that at all. The only real need for current catalogs is if you are collecting current issues or if you are pricing stamps. My point was merely that I don't collect current issues and Scott prices are not worth all that much to start with. If the stamp is common, which most are, the prices are more or less nominal and not much different than an old catalog. If the stamp is expensive, lets say $50 or more, then current pricing is easily enough found from completed listings on auction sites.
Almost everyone uses catalogs for identification and ordering of stamps within their collection. That is the primary usage for me and does not change all that often when collecting the classics.
That's why, for my tastes, unless some new discovery is found, or Scott numbering changes for the classics, I don't need a new set of catalogs. Every ten years or so is good enough. The specialist catalogs are often a necessity though as I am always on the lookout for a translation (makes it way easier than reading German for example).
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09:13:15pm
re: Does It Pay To Buy A New Set Of Scott Catalogs
@HungaryForStamps
I meant to say, I pay no attention to the prices in the Scott Catalog.
I buy a new Scott every 10 years.
1898
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Silence in the face of adversity is the father of complicity and collusion, the first cousins of conspiracy..
07 Jul 2023
04:27:30am
re: Does It Pay To Buy A New Set Of Scott Catalogs
]'' ...If the stamp is expensive, .................. then current pricing is easily enough found from completed listings on auction site....''
And both far more accurate and current.
I cannot recall buying a new Scott. For the last 60 years I've been successful and satisfied with a few year old volume.
An easy and ine*pensive way to keep up with current US issues is to keep an account
with Mystic or Kenmore Stamps. they issue a full color magazine style catalog that covers all US stamps. Usually free to regular customers.
YES, they send approvals, somewhat overpriced, but they can be returned, but every so often a selection might just ring the philatelic chime and can fill an open space.
I am quite sure that a few purchases and free magazine catalog is less than buying a Scott catalog every year or two.
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re: Does It Pay To Buy A New Set Of Scott Catalogs
Many sellers in US rely on the Scott catalog to price stamps and often tout them based upon some percentage of Scott value.
For example, if I sold Mint NH modern US stamps at face value, it would be priced at 50% Scott. (Scott automatically prices stamp at 2x face even stamps still on sale at the PO).
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re: Does It Pay To Buy A New Set Of Scott Catalogs
For those new issues (and any issue really) Scott is building in the sales costs on top of the value. For common issues, which probably includes modern issues, the Scott prices are not very useful. They provide a guide for more expensive stamps, but in practice the values largely depend on quality. That's why, if buying something more expensive, like a US #1, while Scott might quote $500 for used, VF condition (I don't know what the current Scott value is BTW), by attending or examining auctions or results, you might get a better idea what you should actually pay for a particular item.
Other than that, Scott prices might be useful for ball park valuations of collections. I've done that to arrive at a max price I will pay on Ebay for example: sum up the value of the less common stamps, then add a multiplier for the common stamps to arrive at a ball park price, then take a percentage of that for quality, unknowns whatever.
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re: Does It Pay To Buy A New Set Of Scott Catalogs
"Scott is building in the sales costs on top of the value"
This appears their statement on "dealer pricing" but for most modern US dealers will not even pay face value (say 50 to 60% of FV) and then sell at 2x face so markup is actually more.
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re: Does It Pay To Buy A New Set Of Scott Catalogs
I have always used Stanley Gibbons catalogues for listing my collection, other than Swiss stamps where I use the Michel Specialized catalogue. One advantage of Stanley Gibbons is that besides publishing catalogues they also sell stamps and I have on occasion purchased British stamps from them when unavailable elsewhere. This probably is an indication that their prices may be a reflection of actual selling value, or a good starting point for valuation purposes. Our local reference library in Toronto keeps up-to-date copies of Stanley Gibbons World Catalogue and Scotts World Catalogues so I have access to current listings and reference to catalogue numbers without having to purchase current catalogues.
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This is my diabetic cat OBI! I think, therefore I am - I think! Descartes, sort of!
12 Jul 2023
01:45:47pm
re: Does It Pay To Buy A New Set Of Scott Catalogs
"Our local reference library in Toronto keeps up-to-date copies of Stanley Gibbons World Catalogue and Scotts World Catalogues so I have access to current listings and reference to catalogue numbers without having to purchase current catalogues."
So many people are saying this that I'm curious about one thing. Do you take your stamps and albums to the library to work on collection or do you just look the stamps up there, write the numbers down and then put the stamps in at home? I like doing all this in front of the computer watching stuff on YouTube. We're all different I guess!!
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re: Does It Pay To Buy A New Set Of Scott Catalogs
My pet peeve about catalogs at all is the fact they are the ones raising the stamp prices. I know, they purportedly say "We get our information from thousands of dealers, etc, etc, etc.". But honestly, how many dealers do you know, with all of the man hours needed to supply information that would be needed to print a new catalog each and every year? I can't just imagine 100,000 dealers rushing to inform Scott's, for example, how much they sold stamps for and the condition of each and every stamp. If that is the case, why do catalog values fluctuate for one country, as an example again, enough to raise, or even lower the values of that country to the point that country is now too expensive or everyone is rushing in to buy their stamps. Or is it just an illusion we all accept for price increases, so our stamps are now worth more, at least for dealers who can raise the value of new price changes, but don't automatically lower prices to the buying public?
To improve catalogs and I would point the finger at Scott's, since they are the catalog for most stamps in this country, to improve the information you put in your catalog, much like the foreign catalogs do, showing almost virtually every stamp in every set, instead of just showing one stamp out of the set and more often than not it is not the first stamp of the set. After all, what did they do to help collectors, besides double the amount of catalogs from 6 to 12? I wonder if they lost a lot of sales to that revenue maker for them?
When all is said and done, catalogs are only suggested prices, except for the people that don't mind paying full catalog value for stamps and since most of us buy on SOR, Hipstamps, Ebay, or any number of auction sites around and don't even pay anywhere retail prices.
Well, I feel better and got a load off of my chest, but there are probably many of you that have a totally different opinion than mine, so let's hear it!!!! ROAR
Mike
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04:36:58pm
re: Does It Pay To Buy A New Set Of Scott Catalogs
@CapeStampMan
Well said, top drawer, better than I could have done!
Grading standards I think (Just my thinking) should be changed a little. I'm only talking about United States of America stamps before 1920.
There are some stamps where it's estimated 95% of them come off centered, the other 5 percent come well centered and should be graded high. The other 95% without faults, heavy canccels etc. and etc. should be considered than what they are. Many Washington/Franklin head stamps most come off centered. There are many more examples but you get the idea.
This is just my idea, if you don't agree with that's good, no problem.
What do you think?
My thinking is based on over 60 years of stamp collecting, and my experiences working for 2 stamp dealers hired to identify the Washington/Franklin head stamps 1902-1921, and stamps in general.
1898
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re: Does It Pay To Buy A New Set Of Scott Catalogs
I would say it does not pay...except possibly for a very small percentage of collectors. I have always seemed to do well with sets that are 2 or 3 years old. And remember a set of catalogs were a whole lot less expensive say 30 years ago.
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07:36:54pm
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re: Does It Pay To Buy A New Set Of Scott Catalogs
I have a copy of Stanley Gibbons 1919 Rest of the World Stamp Catalogue and the amount of detail in that puts their current "specialized" catalogues to shame.
Of course the "prices" are way out of date but the colour variations and perf details are superb.
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re: Does It Pay To Buy A New Set Of Scott Catalogs
Am I correct in thinking that Scott doesn't actually sell stamps?
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re: Does It Pay To Buy A New Set Of Scott Catalogs
Amos Media (Scott) does not sell stamps.
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08:11:39am
re: Does It Pay To Buy A New Set Of Scott Catalogs
In addition Scott does not buy stamps anymore.
1898
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09:08:32pm
re: Does It Pay To Buy A New Set Of Scott Catalogs
" besides double the amount of catalogs from 6 to 12"
There are 6 volumes in two parts each. Yes that totals 12 catalogues, but the pricing didn't change. It's not double.
Scott doesn't update all the countries each year. They select certain countries and areas to review. Sometimes it can be many years before pricing on less popular countries are reviewed and updated. Another reason why you don't truly get the value for how much you pay if you buy a set annually. One set every 3 to 5 years would be more cost effective.
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re: Does It Pay To Buy A New Set Of Scott Catalogs
The way I see it you probably need a current catalog if you are a dealer, but if what you want is up to date stamp info there are plenty of sites in the net to provide that and on top of that you can buy stamps from many sites at a fraction of the catalog price, most stamp forums have a marketplace section where stamps are easy to get plus you get a picture of the stamp that you are actually getting.
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