Discussion - Member to Member Sales - Research Center
Discussion - Member to Member Sales - Research Center
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Here’s a pic with a regular booklet to compare;
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Aha! Thanks for the help from folks on other forums, I learned that this is a cross gutter booklet from an uncut press sheet. Wow this had me totally confused!
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Not sure how this could be a cross gutter block. All I see are a number of vertical imperf between pairs with everything else being as in a normal booklet. Except that there are no straight edges as normal at top and bottom. A cross gutter block should have a horizontal and a vertical gutter and they meet in the center of the block. Somewhere on the press sheet there should be a block of 4 with normal perfs around but none in the center. Usually there are only 3 of these blocks per booklet press sheets.
Tad
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03:48:43pm
I've been trying to follow this and the term cross gutter booklet to me would look something like a middle gutter setup from the sheets made for the US 1937 Farley material 
like this picture of what I just bought from Carl. What this booklet pair reminds me of is a vertical gutter pair like this 
picture shows in the bottom left corner. Of course I might be totally out to lunch about all of this. If I am just ignore this - but the pictures of the Farley pieces are kind of cool. I have most of them and they are fun to look for!!!
EDIT:
" I learned that this is a cross gutter booklet from an uncut press sheet."
Cross out the word cross and you end up with a gutter booklet, which is what you have, I think!!
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10:23:23pm
Does anyone out there have a picture showing what the master sheet these booklet panes are cut from looks like? Is it more than one pane wide, that might allow for a cross gutter booklet? I'm also curious how many panes, or rows it is long. If it was an odd number of rows of stamps in length it would allow for at least one of these gutter panes per sheet. But all this is very hard to picture in this little brain of mine. A picture of the master sheet would really help, if one is available!
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Harvey,
Believe these are what you are looking for. Some one used glue on the back, that is why the brown smears show through.
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08:16:29am
Very interesting stuff, I've got the center blocks of four for most of the Farley stuff (not the Byrd Expedition though) but would definitely grab a full sheet if I ever had the chance. It's too bad about the glue stains but understandable since these items had no original glue of their own. What I'm really curious about is what the full master sheet of the booklet panes in this article would look like - is it wider than one pane and row many rows of stamps does it go down. But I doubt if the sheet would be easy to find!
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I believe that the complete press sheet contained 6 complete booklet panes, 2 high by 3 across. Relying on my memory.
Tad
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12:42:29pm
If it was only two high I can't figure out where the gutter pane would come from - doesn't make sense to me!
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The gutter is between the top and bottom booklet where it would normally cut to separate the panes.
Tad
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03:32:24pm
What I'm trying to say is if the sheet is only two panes high it would be extremely odd to end up with that gutter pair as you would, for some reason, just cut one row off the top and bottom. Possible, but strange! So maybe that gutter pair is actually quite a rare item!
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The USPS produced the press sheets to sell to collectors. Most (I believe) are saved intact, assuming one has space to store them. As for the booklet press sheets, you can make gutter pairs, gutter booklet panes, gutter blocks (no perfs within the block}, booklet panes with the booklet cover label on the opposite side of the pane, and there are some stamps which do not have perfs between the stamp and the label. Many different combinations to collect. To make the booklet pane that Philatelia (thank you) owns and illustrated for us, you have to remove the row of stamps above and below the desired pane.
I don't know how many of the press sheets were sold, the USPS thought this was a national secret. Most, if not all, 2-sided die cut booklets were made available in press sheet formats which varied as to how many booklets per sheet between 2012 and 2019. At the same time, the USPS was selling imperf press sheets of most issues until mid 2016 and resumed in 2021. They did not resume the booklets though.
Tad
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02:03:49pm
Thanks Tad for explaining this so well. I guess I never thought that a dealer would intentionally mess the booklets about like that. Is it really worth the effort? Surely once people realized what was going on the price would pretty much go to zero for this stuff!! It just seems like an odd thing to do and probably also explains why there are so many odd combinations of stamps with the Farley material as well. Until now I couldn't figure out why there would be so many gutter blocks out there - makes much more sense now!! There must have been thousands of sheets of these things left when production was finished and people obviously made money chopping them up into as many weird ways as possible! I actually feel kind of cheated by having 5 different cross gutter blocks! They're probably still being manufactured today.
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Well I’m doing a happy dance! This part imperf booklet showed up in a discount postage lot! I can’t find any mention of this error in my Scott’s 2020 specialized, in past ebay sales or in google. Anyone have a newer catalog? What is this?
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re: Scott 5144a 2016 Christmas booklet - So that's a cross gutter booklet!
Here’s a pic with a regular booklet to compare;
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re: Scott 5144a 2016 Christmas booklet - So that's a cross gutter booklet!
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re: Scott 5144a 2016 Christmas booklet - So that's a cross gutter booklet!
Aha! Thanks for the help from folks on other forums, I learned that this is a cross gutter booklet from an uncut press sheet. Wow this had me totally confused!
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re: Scott 5144a 2016 Christmas booklet - So that's a cross gutter booklet!
Not sure how this could be a cross gutter block. All I see are a number of vertical imperf between pairs with everything else being as in a normal booklet. Except that there are no straight edges as normal at top and bottom. A cross gutter block should have a horizontal and a vertical gutter and they meet in the center of the block. Somewhere on the press sheet there should be a block of 4 with normal perfs around but none in the center. Usually there are only 3 of these blocks per booklet press sheets.
Tad
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This is my diabetic cat OBI! I think, therefore I am - I think! Descartes, sort of!
04 Mar 2023
03:48:43pm
re: Scott 5144a 2016 Christmas booklet - So that's a cross gutter booklet!
I've been trying to follow this and the term cross gutter booklet to me would look something like a middle gutter setup from the sheets made for the US 1937 Farley material like this picture of what I just bought from Carl. What this booklet pair reminds me of is a vertical gutter pair like this picture shows in the bottom left corner. Of course I might be totally out to lunch about all of this. If I am just ignore this - but the pictures of the Farley pieces are kind of cool. I have most of them and they are fun to look for!!!
EDIT:
" I learned that this is a cross gutter booklet from an uncut press sheet."
Cross out the word cross and you end up with a gutter booklet, which is what you have, I think!!
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This is my diabetic cat OBI! I think, therefore I am - I think! Descartes, sort of!
05 Mar 2023
10:23:23pm
re: Scott 5144a 2016 Christmas booklet - So that's a cross gutter booklet!
Does anyone out there have a picture showing what the master sheet these booklet panes are cut from looks like? Is it more than one pane wide, that might allow for a cross gutter booklet? I'm also curious how many panes, or rows it is long. If it was an odd number of rows of stamps in length it would allow for at least one of these gutter panes per sheet. But all this is very hard to picture in this little brain of mine. A picture of the master sheet would really help, if one is available!
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re: Scott 5144a 2016 Christmas booklet - So that's a cross gutter booklet!
Harvey,
Believe these are what you are looking for. Some one used glue on the back, that is why the brown smears show through.
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this post
This is my diabetic cat OBI! I think, therefore I am - I think! Descartes, sort of!
06 Mar 2023
08:16:29am
re: Scott 5144a 2016 Christmas booklet - So that's a cross gutter booklet!
Very interesting stuff, I've got the center blocks of four for most of the Farley stuff (not the Byrd Expedition though) but would definitely grab a full sheet if I ever had the chance. It's too bad about the glue stains but understandable since these items had no original glue of their own. What I'm really curious about is what the full master sheet of the booklet panes in this article would look like - is it wider than one pane and row many rows of stamps does it go down. But I doubt if the sheet would be easy to find!
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this post
re: Scott 5144a 2016 Christmas booklet - So that's a cross gutter booklet!
I believe that the complete press sheet contained 6 complete booklet panes, 2 high by 3 across. Relying on my memory.
Tad
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This is my diabetic cat OBI! I think, therefore I am - I think! Descartes, sort of!
06 Mar 2023
12:42:29pm
re: Scott 5144a 2016 Christmas booklet - So that's a cross gutter booklet!
If it was only two high I can't figure out where the gutter pane would come from - doesn't make sense to me!
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re: Scott 5144a 2016 Christmas booklet - So that's a cross gutter booklet!
The gutter is between the top and bottom booklet where it would normally cut to separate the panes.
Tad
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this post
This is my diabetic cat OBI! I think, therefore I am - I think! Descartes, sort of!
06 Mar 2023
03:32:24pm
re: Scott 5144a 2016 Christmas booklet - So that's a cross gutter booklet!
What I'm trying to say is if the sheet is only two panes high it would be extremely odd to end up with that gutter pair as you would, for some reason, just cut one row off the top and bottom. Possible, but strange! So maybe that gutter pair is actually quite a rare item!
Login to Like
this post
re: Scott 5144a 2016 Christmas booklet - So that's a cross gutter booklet!
The USPS produced the press sheets to sell to collectors. Most (I believe) are saved intact, assuming one has space to store them. As for the booklet press sheets, you can make gutter pairs, gutter booklet panes, gutter blocks (no perfs within the block}, booklet panes with the booklet cover label on the opposite side of the pane, and there are some stamps which do not have perfs between the stamp and the label. Many different combinations to collect. To make the booklet pane that Philatelia (thank you) owns and illustrated for us, you have to remove the row of stamps above and below the desired pane.
I don't know how many of the press sheets were sold, the USPS thought this was a national secret. Most, if not all, 2-sided die cut booklets were made available in press sheet formats which varied as to how many booklets per sheet between 2012 and 2019. At the same time, the USPS was selling imperf press sheets of most issues until mid 2016 and resumed in 2021. They did not resume the booklets though.
Tad
Login to Like
this post
This is my diabetic cat OBI! I think, therefore I am - I think! Descartes, sort of!
07 Mar 2023
02:03:49pm
re: Scott 5144a 2016 Christmas booklet - So that's a cross gutter booklet!
Thanks Tad for explaining this so well. I guess I never thought that a dealer would intentionally mess the booklets about like that. Is it really worth the effort? Surely once people realized what was going on the price would pretty much go to zero for this stuff!! It just seems like an odd thing to do and probably also explains why there are so many odd combinations of stamps with the Farley material as well. Until now I couldn't figure out why there would be so many gutter blocks out there - makes much more sense now!! There must have been thousands of sheets of these things left when production was finished and people obviously made money chopping them up into as many weird ways as possible! I actually feel kind of cheated by having 5 different cross gutter blocks! They're probably still being manufactured today.
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