Discussion - Member to Member Sales - Research Center
Discussion - Member to Member Sales - Research Center
Thanks, in advance!
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05:23:45pm
Ink that will dissolve in water.
Particularly noticeable on stamps of Great Britain, the two colour stamps of Queen Victoria and Edward VII, where most of what you see offered has the center badly faded. The original colours are amazing, compared to what is generally seen.
My desk is currently buried in covers being sorted. If I can get it clear soon, I will dig out some examples.
Roy
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The De La Rue company of Britain was keen on using fugitive inks as a selling point to post offices worried about the cleaning and reuse of postage stamps. The 1887 issue of Siam has these new inks in purple and green colours. Many of this issue in collectors' albums are faded badly. If only they knew all they had to do was put a barcode on each stamp.
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09:30:00pm
Here is an example. This isn't the example I was thinking of earlier, but it will illustrate for now. I have a stunning used pair of the 1 shilling KEVII issue on piece (never seen water) around here somewhere, but I took it to the stamp club recently to show a collector exactly this problem, and now I can't remember which box it came back in. If I find it soon, I will post it as well.
Here is a Queen Victoria issue. A mint never hinged copy against a typical used copy, as frequently offered, that I just now pulled out of a typical worldwide collection. You will frequently see such copies offered as "shade varieties". If you do see such a claim, take all the seller's other offers with a grain of salt, unless it is a straightforward stamp with no varieties. In my experience, these sellers always seem to have the scarcer colour varieties (i.e. Scott "a" numbers).
Roy
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Here is another example of fugitive ink on the Victoria issue. I have no mint copy for strict comparison; mine are used, but show the variations in how much ink "migrates" or dissolves. The third and four examples are perfins.
JTH
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Here are a couple of used Edward examples. The first is a perfin and although soaked does not show very much change from what I think is the original colour of the ink. One thing that helps, at least somewhat, when soaking is to float the stamp on top of the water right side up, and then peel the paper off, while trying to keep the top surface of the stamp dry.
JTH
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Here's an example of mine. What I like to know is how do you manage to keep the stamp dry while socking it, in my experience water always percolates to the stamp and further more it sinks to the bottom of the bowl while the paper floats on top.
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Thanks everyone
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My Gibbons Concise doesn't say but I'm pretty sure the Victoria Jubilee issue was printed by De La Rue and at least some of the KEVII were also from them. It's probably the De La Rue ink running again.
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Hi Danny,
The SG Concise has a note that all the stamps from SG 62 to SG 214 were printed by De La Rue.
As these stamps were used for both postal and revenue purposes, the Inland Revenue (the UK government tax department) required them to be printed using "doubly fugitive" inks.
These inks were intended to make it obvious if someone had tried to remove a postal or written fiscal cancellation from a stamp and so prevent illegal re-use.
In a similar way, the earlier "lilac and green" set used only these two colours as they were the only ones available in doubly fugitive ink.
For the jubilee set, this requirement was relaxed a little in that stamps could be printed in two colours, of which one was doubly fugitive and the other singly fugitive.
This is why we see so many of these stamps with faded green or lilac centres, having been floated off paper in water by collectors.
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I wonder how much the original (non faded) color varied?
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Nigel, singly and doubly fugitive is new to me (well, doubly is). Can you explain the difference?
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Hi Ted,
A singly fugitive ink is intended to run and fade in various solvents but not water.
A doubly fugitive ink is also intended to run in water resulting in these washed out / faded centres when stamps were floated from paper.
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Thanks, Nigel. I had always thought all fugitive inks ran in water.
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05:03:13pm
What the term fugitive ink is ?
Thanks, in advance!
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BuckaCover.com - 80,000 covers priced 60c to $1.50 - Easy browsing 500 categories
28 Feb 2023
05:23:45pm
re: Can someone explain?
Ink that will dissolve in water.
Particularly noticeable on stamps of Great Britain, the two colour stamps of Queen Victoria and Edward VII, where most of what you see offered has the center badly faded. The original colours are amazing, compared to what is generally seen.
My desk is currently buried in covers being sorted. If I can get it clear soon, I will dig out some examples.
Roy
3 Members
like this post.
Login to Like.
re: Can someone explain?
The De La Rue company of Britain was keen on using fugitive inks as a selling point to post offices worried about the cleaning and reuse of postage stamps. The 1887 issue of Siam has these new inks in purple and green colours. Many of this issue in collectors' albums are faded badly. If only they knew all they had to do was put a barcode on each stamp.
Login to Like
this post
BuckaCover.com - 80,000 covers priced 60c to $1.50 - Easy browsing 500 categories
28 Feb 2023
09:30:00pm
re: Can someone explain?
Here is an example. This isn't the example I was thinking of earlier, but it will illustrate for now. I have a stunning used pair of the 1 shilling KEVII issue on piece (never seen water) around here somewhere, but I took it to the stamp club recently to show a collector exactly this problem, and now I can't remember which box it came back in. If I find it soon, I will post it as well.
Here is a Queen Victoria issue. A mint never hinged copy against a typical used copy, as frequently offered, that I just now pulled out of a typical worldwide collection. You will frequently see such copies offered as "shade varieties". If you do see such a claim, take all the seller's other offers with a grain of salt, unless it is a straightforward stamp with no varieties. In my experience, these sellers always seem to have the scarcer colour varieties (i.e. Scott "a" numbers).
Roy
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re: Can someone explain?
Here is another example of fugitive ink on the Victoria issue. I have no mint copy for strict comparison; mine are used, but show the variations in how much ink "migrates" or dissolves. The third and four examples are perfins.
JTH
Login to Like
this post
re: Can someone explain?
Here are a couple of used Edward examples. The first is a perfin and although soaked does not show very much change from what I think is the original colour of the ink. One thing that helps, at least somewhat, when soaking is to float the stamp on top of the water right side up, and then peel the paper off, while trying to keep the top surface of the stamp dry.
JTH
1 Member
likes this post.
Login to Like.
re: Can someone explain?
Here's an example of mine. What I like to know is how do you manage to keep the stamp dry while socking it, in my experience water always percolates to the stamp and further more it sinks to the bottom of the bowl while the paper floats on top.
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06:52:43am
re: Can someone explain?
Thanks everyone
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re: Can someone explain?
My Gibbons Concise doesn't say but I'm pretty sure the Victoria Jubilee issue was printed by De La Rue and at least some of the KEVII were also from them. It's probably the De La Rue ink running again.
Login to Like
this post
re: Can someone explain?
Hi Danny,
The SG Concise has a note that all the stamps from SG 62 to SG 214 were printed by De La Rue.
As these stamps were used for both postal and revenue purposes, the Inland Revenue (the UK government tax department) required them to be printed using "doubly fugitive" inks.
These inks were intended to make it obvious if someone had tried to remove a postal or written fiscal cancellation from a stamp and so prevent illegal re-use.
In a similar way, the earlier "lilac and green" set used only these two colours as they were the only ones available in doubly fugitive ink.
For the jubilee set, this requirement was relaxed a little in that stamps could be printed in two colours, of which one was doubly fugitive and the other singly fugitive.
This is why we see so many of these stamps with faded green or lilac centres, having been floated off paper in water by collectors.
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re: Can someone explain?
I wonder how much the original (non faded) color varied?
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re: Can someone explain?
Nigel, singly and doubly fugitive is new to me (well, doubly is). Can you explain the difference?
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this post
re: Can someone explain?
Hi Ted,
A singly fugitive ink is intended to run and fade in various solvents but not water.
A doubly fugitive ink is also intended to run in water resulting in these washed out / faded centres when stamps were floated from paper.
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re: Can someone explain?
Thanks, Nigel. I had always thought all fugitive inks ran in water.
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