Discussion - Member to Member Sales - Research Center
Discussion - Member to Member Sales - Research Center
My query pertains to the 1865 surcharge (20c on 15c) applied to the 1863 issue (Sc 29, 15c, blue).
Specifically Scott 34, 34a, and 34b. Or Sassone 23, 24, and 25.
Have looked at mint examples of the three surcharges (Types I, II, and III) posted on various online sales sites. And, frankly, cannot see any differences btwn the surcharges.
Scott references "dots flanking stars in oval". Which is "clear as mud" to me.
Can anyone provide clarification re this matter?
TIA.
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The differences are in the basic stamp used for the surcharge rather than in the surcharge itself.
Three different plates were used to produce the stamps that were surcharged, the original one and two new ones.
The original plate gave rise to type III.
The other two plates had dots added to the design in various places in the oval frame: before the word POSTE, after ITALIANE etc.
One of these two plates (type I) also has extra dots added in some of the ornaments, e.g in the 7-shaped ornament to the left of "O" of POSTE in the top left of the stamp.
This may still be as clear as mud but it's getting very late here! I'll try and post a scan tomorrow of a diagram from an SG catalogue.
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Here's the relevant diagram from my SG 2010 Part 8 catalogue:
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Thank you very much, Nigel. This makes perfect sense. Its the stamps themselves that vary, not the surcharge.
Scott's standard catalogue includes this explanation under the 1863 - 77 series: "Nos. 26 to 32 have the head of type A8 but with different corner designs for each value." IOW, no indication Sc 29 (15c) has three varieties.
When I woke up this am I went to the philatelic bookcase is search of my Sassone (which I now conclude did not survive the great move eastward).
And it doing so came across the Scott Classic Specialized catalogue. Included therein (under the 1865 surcharge entry) are four short lines of text:
"Type 1 - Dots flanking stars in oval, and dot in eight check-mark ornaments in corners. Type II - Dots in oval, none in corners. Type III - No dots."
Can only conclude there wasn't space available in the 842 pages of Vol 3B to include these four short lines of clarifying text.
Nigel, owe you one!
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The unsurcharged 15c stamp (SG 12 or 12a - these are shades) should always be type III.
However, I see that SG lists a variety (SG 17a) of the surcharged type I stamp with surcharge omitted at a very high price (£33,000 mint, unpriced used) in the 2010 edition.
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Thanks for the addendum, Nigel.
Alas, looked through my holdings. No SG17a.
So its doesn't appear I will "stand down" today.
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05:24:38pm
My query pertains to the 1865 surcharge (20c on 15c) applied to the 1863 issue (Sc 29, 15c, blue).
Specifically Scott 34, 34a, and 34b. Or Sassone 23, 24, and 25.
Have looked at mint examples of the three surcharges (Types I, II, and III) posted on various online sales sites. And, frankly, cannot see any differences btwn the surcharges.
Scott references "dots flanking stars in oval". Which is "clear as mud" to me.
Can anyone provide clarification re this matter?
TIA.
Login to Like
this post
re: Italy: 1865 Victor Emmanuel surcharge
The differences are in the basic stamp used for the surcharge rather than in the surcharge itself.
Three different plates were used to produce the stamps that were surcharged, the original one and two new ones.
The original plate gave rise to type III.
The other two plates had dots added to the design in various places in the oval frame: before the word POSTE, after ITALIANE etc.
One of these two plates (type I) also has extra dots added in some of the ornaments, e.g in the 7-shaped ornament to the left of "O" of POSTE in the top left of the stamp.
This may still be as clear as mud but it's getting very late here! I'll try and post a scan tomorrow of a diagram from an SG catalogue.
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re: Italy: 1865 Victor Emmanuel surcharge
Here's the relevant diagram from my SG 2010 Part 8 catalogue:
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07:42:46am
re: Italy: 1865 Victor Emmanuel surcharge
Thank you very much, Nigel. This makes perfect sense. Its the stamps themselves that vary, not the surcharge.
Scott's standard catalogue includes this explanation under the 1863 - 77 series: "Nos. 26 to 32 have the head of type A8 but with different corner designs for each value." IOW, no indication Sc 29 (15c) has three varieties.
When I woke up this am I went to the philatelic bookcase is search of my Sassone (which I now conclude did not survive the great move eastward).
And it doing so came across the Scott Classic Specialized catalogue. Included therein (under the 1865 surcharge entry) are four short lines of text:
"Type 1 - Dots flanking stars in oval, and dot in eight check-mark ornaments in corners. Type II - Dots in oval, none in corners. Type III - No dots."
Can only conclude there wasn't space available in the 842 pages of Vol 3B to include these four short lines of clarifying text.
Nigel, owe you one!
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this post
re: Italy: 1865 Victor Emmanuel surcharge
The unsurcharged 15c stamp (SG 12 or 12a - these are shades) should always be type III.
However, I see that SG lists a variety (SG 17a) of the surcharged type I stamp with surcharge omitted at a very high price (£33,000 mint, unpriced used) in the 2010 edition.
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08:39:40am
re: Italy: 1865 Victor Emmanuel surcharge
Thanks for the addendum, Nigel.
Alas, looked through my holdings. No SG17a.
So its doesn't appear I will "stand down" today.
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