Discussion - Member to Member Sales - Research Center
Discussion - Member to Member Sales - Research Center
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This seems to be an extension to the Removing mint hinged stamps from an album thread.
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Whatever you call them just be extremely careful what you say! Some folks are very VERY touchy about the condition of their backsides.
Oh! Wait! Not THEIR backsides! LoL I mean the backsides of their stamps! The gum side! 
Just teasing, everyone! Just a joke!
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"This seems to be an extension to the Removing mint hinged stamps from an album thread."
Al, it was the thread about removing stamps from an album which got me thinking about my question. I have a couple of stock pages where I have used a sweat box to remove hinges from Siam's first issue mint stamps. While doing this I also used a peroxide sweat box to bring back the original colours on some of them. I am pleased with the results. I live in the tropics which does seem to accentuate the problems with toning, sulphurization and so on. Hinge remnants do seem to be associated with discoloration out here, possibly because some are made from acidic paper.
Anyway I was thinking of offering some of them on SoR as was wondering what to call them. Does mint hinged include stamps that were once hinged. Of course on a used stamp this isn't a problem, but with mint it seems a can of worms. (I am one of those strange collectors who wish the standard was to wash the gum off early stamps to aid their preservation.)
n.b. I have seen the term "disturbed gun" over the years. Is hinge removal basically what it means?
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If I'm listing it, I'd call it Mint previously hinged. It can be looked at a couple of ways, and may depend on where the stamps are coming from. For the Danish West Indies, gum "issues" are common. Maybe a hinge was sweated off, maybe not, but I don't ascribe it the same value as a "clean" never hinged stamp. Gum skips, crackling, natural gum bends, etc. happened with much more frequency in those days and I expect to see it, but my pricing for both buying and selling is adjusted downward (crackled gum is the norm for some issues, though). This doesn't mean they are "bad" stamps, but I'm simply not going to pay or assign a "never hinged" price for an item that isn't "clean" never hinged.
The same goes for stamps that were cleaned with chemicals, such as peroxide -- I would list it as such. No one would likely know it was treated with peroxide, but i would.
I was a long-time "gum hound," always searching for MNH items, much to my collection's detriment, as I passed on many items that didn't have "clean gum" but were visually great stamps. It wasn't until l learned more about my collecting area that very well-centered stamps with "clean gum" were not easy to come by. I am still a bit of a "centering nut," though...
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"Mint previously hinged"
Sean, I guess "disturbed gum" or "mint previously hinged" say the same thing in a way. The only way around it is to show both the front and the back of the stamp when selling and let the buyers make their own minds up. Of course hinges were still being used on mint stamps well into the 1960s by collectors before we knew that stamps would be judged on their gum for investment purposes, for that certainly seems to be the only reason why we should even look at the gum. When we reached the point of re-gumming stamps we should have just called out this obsession.
I have to say in my experience that on certain stamp issues a sweat box with a peroxide solution does bring a red stamp which has gone brown back to its original colour to my eyes. I would rather get the colour correct than worry about the gum being disturbed. Is that a bit like getting a copy with the centering good rather than worrying about hinge marks?
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10:19:10pm
I'm one of those strange stamp collectors who doesn't give a damn about the back as long as it doesn't have any thins. I don't care about pencil marks and the only reason I would object to pen marks is that it would probably show, or leach, through. Once a stamp is mounted in a normal album we can't see the back anyway. How many of us care what's on the back of a painting once it's on the wall, unless it's something interesting that contributes to the work of art? Is there really a major difference? I think all of this paranoia about the back of the stamp is only a $$$$ thing and detracts somewhat from the enjoyment of the hobby - just my opinion!!
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Hi, DannyS!
Great post! As a buyer, I don't really consider how the item is described as my visual inspection will tell me everything I need to know (a bit tougher online, but not an issue when properly working with a seller). "Eye appeal" is factor number one, which, of course, takes into consideration color, centering, creases, gum bends the cancel if used, perf condition, etc. The back of the stamp matters to me in relation to the price. Knowing the typical condition of an issue and its relative scarcity comes into play, too. I'm more forgiving, for example, when it comes to DWI 14 Cent stamps as the paper is very thin and they are frequently damaged, especially canceled copies. We've all seen stamps so lightly hinged that the hinge mark is barely noticeable, or gum so slightly disturbed that some would miss it. This doesn't keep me up at night as I make the final decision whether to purchase the item or not.
As a seller, listing an item as hinged, however light, simultaneously states that the gum has been disturbed. Disturbed gum may not have, however, been hinged -- could have simply been exposed to a humid environment. I simply describe what I know to be the case (learned this working for an auction house). If the gum is disturbed and I can't tell whether it has been hinged, I'll list as disturbed gum, possibly previously hinged (more often than not I list it as hinged). I leave it to the market to determine if the item is worth the price.
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Thanks Sean, I think you have answered my question and I will go with "mint previously hinged" and maybe throw in the "disturbed gum" as well if it shows. A scan of both front and back should tell the buyer everything.
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""Mint previously hinged""
How about "Used previously mint"
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@stampcollector might be on to something!
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Then this would lead to hinged and unhinged.
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I think I'm unhinged!
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Much as I dislike worrying about the backs of stamps, and I do apologize for starting this thread, the one good thing to come out of MH and MNH designations is it does allow collectors to obtain the hinged mint stamps at well below catalogue price.
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@DannyS this is a great thread, and it is good for folks to discuss their thoughts as this is yet another one of those areas many of us wonder about. I have learned and enjoyed a lot in SOR about a variety of things that I wouldn't have otherwise. As for my comment about my being unhinged, I was just poking fun at myself. I thought Stampcollector's comments are humorous and make a solid point at the same time. I think my wife would issue a certificate attesting to my being "unhinged" or maybe even "disturbed!"
In all seriousness, we, as collectors, make the final decision as to whether to purchase an item. I believe most dealers and collectors do a terrific job selling or trading material. Personally, I'm pretty fussy when it comes to overall condition, but have become more relaxed in my approach as some items are simply too difficult to find in "perfect" condition whether used or unused. I have purchased many stamps that were not as described in regards to gum, but don't believe they were intentionally being passed off as being something they weren't. If the prices hadn't been acceptable to me, I would've simply passed on them. I have some stamps I'll post when I get home from holiday that are definitely less than perfect in appearance but are typical examples. I also have a "never hinged" stamp that was clearly regummed yet has a clean certificate (this particular stamp was issued without gum). Also have another stamp with a certificate describing the wrong stamp, but I bought it anyway as the price was right!
Happy New Years, and Happy Stamping!
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Or as my Dad, occasional coin dealer, it depends on whether you are buying or selling.
But that leads to the question what do you call those that sell stamps on forums and auction sites? When do you become a dealer?
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To me you become a dealer when you buy something that is not for your collection, but only intended for resale.
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The grading of stamps is readily available in the introduction pages of Scott, but I'm willing to bet that the very same stamp looks different to a collector than it does to a dealer, maybe trying to get the most or paying the least depending on which one you are is the answer to the question.
Like being pregnant, either you are or you are not, there's no in-between, a mint stamp is or is not and it doesn't matter how many letters you use to describe it, it will not change the condition of the stamp. I've seen stamps described as MLH and MVLH, in my opinion this particular stamp is not M anymore
and regardless of the size of the hinge, it is still a hinged stamp. We all have our preferences and own methods of collecting but I feel that we should call the potatoes, potatoes and the apples, apples.
And yes, it was T-I-C when I made that comment, the description, whatever it might be will never change the condition of the stamp.
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In that case, I would be considered a dealer, though I don't hold myself out as one nor consider myself to be a dealer. Either way, I'm OK with the label!
Like many, I have purchased lots or a collection to get my hands on an item or two, and have sold the balance/remainder as I didn't need that material. Bought one collection a few years back for one stamp that wasn't cherrypicked by the auction house and listed as an individual lot. Apparently no one else saw it, either, as the bidding was light. Wound up with a great stamp, a nice Lindner binder with very well-done homemade pages that I may use as an inspiration for when I get around to making my own pages.
I have considered making up "business cards" having my contact info and listing what I specialize in and want to purchase to give to dealers at shows in the hopes that they keep me in mind should they come across material that isn't "in their wheelhouse." There is a collector I met that does this and it has worked very well for him!
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Ah but the collection you bought DID have something for your collection.
I also get many of the stamps for my collections doing exactly that - buy a collection, keep everything that I need including swapping out and keeping better quality / condition items, then sell the rest of the collection intact. I have three collections waiting for me to go through right now, all with nice Lighthouse hingeless albums. If they are in a nice album they are super easy to resell. In my experience in the long run it is much cheaper to build a collection this way, even if you only need a few items. And as an added bonus, some collections include varieties, oddities and notes from the previous collector. Those are the best!
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"If they are in a nice album they are super easy to resell."
May I modify that statement:-
If they are in a nice album I keep them!
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LoL great comment. Ian.
I don’t use preprinted albums but if I did, those Lighthouse are sweet! If anyone is interested in Faroe or Greenland in Lighthouse albums let me know and I’ll give you a head’s up when I’m ready to sell the remainders.
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So if we use a sweat box to remove a hinge from a mint stamp, how do we describe the result? Is it still mint hinged, or is it disturbed gum?
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re: What do we call?
This seems to be an extension to the Removing mint hinged stamps from an album thread.
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re: What do we call?
Whatever you call them just be extremely careful what you say! Some folks are very VERY touchy about the condition of their backsides.
Oh! Wait! Not THEIR backsides! LoL I mean the backsides of their stamps! The gum side!
Just teasing, everyone! Just a joke!
2 Members
like this post.
Login to Like.
re: What do we call?
"This seems to be an extension to the Removing mint hinged stamps from an album thread."
Al, it was the thread about removing stamps from an album which got me thinking about my question. I have a couple of stock pages where I have used a sweat box to remove hinges from Siam's first issue mint stamps. While doing this I also used a peroxide sweat box to bring back the original colours on some of them. I am pleased with the results. I live in the tropics which does seem to accentuate the problems with toning, sulphurization and so on. Hinge remnants do seem to be associated with discoloration out here, possibly because some are made from acidic paper.
Anyway I was thinking of offering some of them on SoR as was wondering what to call them. Does mint hinged include stamps that were once hinged. Of course on a used stamp this isn't a problem, but with mint it seems a can of worms. (I am one of those strange collectors who wish the standard was to wash the gum off early stamps to aid their preservation.)
n.b. I have seen the term "disturbed gun" over the years. Is hinge removal basically what it means?
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this post
re: What do we call?
If I'm listing it, I'd call it Mint previously hinged. It can be looked at a couple of ways, and may depend on where the stamps are coming from. For the Danish West Indies, gum "issues" are common. Maybe a hinge was sweated off, maybe not, but I don't ascribe it the same value as a "clean" never hinged stamp. Gum skips, crackling, natural gum bends, etc. happened with much more frequency in those days and I expect to see it, but my pricing for both buying and selling is adjusted downward (crackled gum is the norm for some issues, though). This doesn't mean they are "bad" stamps, but I'm simply not going to pay or assign a "never hinged" price for an item that isn't "clean" never hinged.
The same goes for stamps that were cleaned with chemicals, such as peroxide -- I would list it as such. No one would likely know it was treated with peroxide, but i would.
I was a long-time "gum hound," always searching for MNH items, much to my collection's detriment, as I passed on many items that didn't have "clean gum" but were visually great stamps. It wasn't until l learned more about my collecting area that very well-centered stamps with "clean gum" were not easy to come by. I am still a bit of a "centering nut," though...
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re: What do we call?
"Mint previously hinged"
Sean, I guess "disturbed gum" or "mint previously hinged" say the same thing in a way. The only way around it is to show both the front and the back of the stamp when selling and let the buyers make their own minds up. Of course hinges were still being used on mint stamps well into the 1960s by collectors before we knew that stamps would be judged on their gum for investment purposes, for that certainly seems to be the only reason why we should even look at the gum. When we reached the point of re-gumming stamps we should have just called out this obsession.
I have to say in my experience that on certain stamp issues a sweat box with a peroxide solution does bring a red stamp which has gone brown back to its original colour to my eyes. I would rather get the colour correct than worry about the gum being disturbed. Is that a bit like getting a copy with the centering good rather than worrying about hinge marks?
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This is my diabetic cat OBI! I think, therefore I am - I think! Descartes, sort of!
27 Dec 2022
10:19:10pm
re: What do we call?
I'm one of those strange stamp collectors who doesn't give a damn about the back as long as it doesn't have any thins. I don't care about pencil marks and the only reason I would object to pen marks is that it would probably show, or leach, through. Once a stamp is mounted in a normal album we can't see the back anyway. How many of us care what's on the back of a painting once it's on the wall, unless it's something interesting that contributes to the work of art? Is there really a major difference? I think all of this paranoia about the back of the stamp is only a $$$$ thing and detracts somewhat from the enjoyment of the hobby - just my opinion!!
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re: What do we call?
Hi, DannyS!
Great post! As a buyer, I don't really consider how the item is described as my visual inspection will tell me everything I need to know (a bit tougher online, but not an issue when properly working with a seller). "Eye appeal" is factor number one, which, of course, takes into consideration color, centering, creases, gum bends the cancel if used, perf condition, etc. The back of the stamp matters to me in relation to the price. Knowing the typical condition of an issue and its relative scarcity comes into play, too. I'm more forgiving, for example, when it comes to DWI 14 Cent stamps as the paper is very thin and they are frequently damaged, especially canceled copies. We've all seen stamps so lightly hinged that the hinge mark is barely noticeable, or gum so slightly disturbed that some would miss it. This doesn't keep me up at night as I make the final decision whether to purchase the item or not.
As a seller, listing an item as hinged, however light, simultaneously states that the gum has been disturbed. Disturbed gum may not have, however, been hinged -- could have simply been exposed to a humid environment. I simply describe what I know to be the case (learned this working for an auction house). If the gum is disturbed and I can't tell whether it has been hinged, I'll list as disturbed gum, possibly previously hinged (more often than not I list it as hinged). I leave it to the market to determine if the item is worth the price.
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re: What do we call?
Thanks Sean, I think you have answered my question and I will go with "mint previously hinged" and maybe throw in the "disturbed gum" as well if it shows. A scan of both front and back should tell the buyer everything.
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re: What do we call?
""Mint previously hinged""
How about "Used previously mint"
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re: What do we call?
@stampcollector might be on to something!
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re: What do we call?
Then this would lead to hinged and unhinged.
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re: What do we call?
I think I'm unhinged!
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re: What do we call?
Much as I dislike worrying about the backs of stamps, and I do apologize for starting this thread, the one good thing to come out of MH and MNH designations is it does allow collectors to obtain the hinged mint stamps at well below catalogue price.
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re: What do we call?
@DannyS this is a great thread, and it is good for folks to discuss their thoughts as this is yet another one of those areas many of us wonder about. I have learned and enjoyed a lot in SOR about a variety of things that I wouldn't have otherwise. As for my comment about my being unhinged, I was just poking fun at myself. I thought Stampcollector's comments are humorous and make a solid point at the same time. I think my wife would issue a certificate attesting to my being "unhinged" or maybe even "disturbed!"
In all seriousness, we, as collectors, make the final decision as to whether to purchase an item. I believe most dealers and collectors do a terrific job selling or trading material. Personally, I'm pretty fussy when it comes to overall condition, but have become more relaxed in my approach as some items are simply too difficult to find in "perfect" condition whether used or unused. I have purchased many stamps that were not as described in regards to gum, but don't believe they were intentionally being passed off as being something they weren't. If the prices hadn't been acceptable to me, I would've simply passed on them. I have some stamps I'll post when I get home from holiday that are definitely less than perfect in appearance but are typical examples. I also have a "never hinged" stamp that was clearly regummed yet has a clean certificate (this particular stamp was issued without gum). Also have another stamp with a certificate describing the wrong stamp, but I bought it anyway as the price was right!
Happy New Years, and Happy Stamping!
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re: What do we call?
Or as my Dad, occasional coin dealer, it depends on whether you are buying or selling.
But that leads to the question what do you call those that sell stamps on forums and auction sites? When do you become a dealer?
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this post
re: What do we call?
To me you become a dealer when you buy something that is not for your collection, but only intended for resale.
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re: What do we call?
The grading of stamps is readily available in the introduction pages of Scott, but I'm willing to bet that the very same stamp looks different to a collector than it does to a dealer, maybe trying to get the most or paying the least depending on which one you are is the answer to the question.
Like being pregnant, either you are or you are not, there's no in-between, a mint stamp is or is not and it doesn't matter how many letters you use to describe it, it will not change the condition of the stamp. I've seen stamps described as MLH and MVLH, in my opinion this particular stamp is not M anymore
and regardless of the size of the hinge, it is still a hinged stamp. We all have our preferences and own methods of collecting but I feel that we should call the potatoes, potatoes and the apples, apples.
And yes, it was T-I-C when I made that comment, the description, whatever it might be will never change the condition of the stamp.
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re: What do we call?
In that case, I would be considered a dealer, though I don't hold myself out as one nor consider myself to be a dealer. Either way, I'm OK with the label!
Like many, I have purchased lots or a collection to get my hands on an item or two, and have sold the balance/remainder as I didn't need that material. Bought one collection a few years back for one stamp that wasn't cherrypicked by the auction house and listed as an individual lot. Apparently no one else saw it, either, as the bidding was light. Wound up with a great stamp, a nice Lindner binder with very well-done homemade pages that I may use as an inspiration for when I get around to making my own pages.
I have considered making up "business cards" having my contact info and listing what I specialize in and want to purchase to give to dealers at shows in the hopes that they keep me in mind should they come across material that isn't "in their wheelhouse." There is a collector I met that does this and it has worked very well for him!
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this post
re: What do we call?
Ah but the collection you bought DID have something for your collection.
I also get many of the stamps for my collections doing exactly that - buy a collection, keep everything that I need including swapping out and keeping better quality / condition items, then sell the rest of the collection intact. I have three collections waiting for me to go through right now, all with nice Lighthouse hingeless albums. If they are in a nice album they are super easy to resell. In my experience in the long run it is much cheaper to build a collection this way, even if you only need a few items. And as an added bonus, some collections include varieties, oddities and notes from the previous collector. Those are the best!
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12:17:58pm
Auctions - Approvals
re: What do we call?
"If they are in a nice album they are super easy to resell."
May I modify that statement:-
If they are in a nice album I keep them!
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re: What do we call?
LoL great comment. Ian.
I don’t use preprinted albums but if I did, those Lighthouse are sweet! If anyone is interested in Faroe or Greenland in Lighthouse albums let me know and I’ll give you a head’s up when I’m ready to sell the remainders.
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