Discussion - Member to Member Sales - Research Center
Discussion - Member to Member Sales - Research Center
The decision to move the Stamp Store to the Hipstamp platform seems to have been made without reference to the membership of APS, unless I've missed something. Teaming with a commercial enterprise without reference to the members galls me.
Am I off beam? Thoughts would be appreciated.
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I wonder if APS found the staffing needed to maintain sales section IT aspect too much trouble and expense. They did a web site makeover in part to reduce external IT effort.
As an APS member, I support the idea.
Al Gore JASC
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I'm an APS member too, but I'm not in favour of decisions being made that affect any organisation without members having the opportunity to offer input. It may be a great idea long-term, but it would have been nice for a discussion to be had.
Personally, I think linking with Hipstamp denigrates the APS brand.
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Oh great! There goes a great stamp buying experience! I've had issues with HipStamp that were NEVER resolved. It took a while to delete my account with them. It's more than likely still there, as I haven't bothered going back to them.
If APS is moving their stamp store to HipStamp or something like it, I'm out.
That'll be too bad, at least for me, as I have been buying from APS for a few years now.
I just sent APS Stamp Store an email. If this does indeed happen, I'll not renew my APS membership (#101944)
And I agree with Dave - why no membership input on this plan?
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I have been an APS member since 1985 - they did not ask me. I sell on Hipstamp and have no real problems with them. I have a HUGE problem with APS moving to Hipstamp with NO input from it's members. I may or may not terminate my membership but will definitely be adding memberships in other societies as a result of this. Isn't APS supposed to be a professional organization rather than just another commercial enterprise?
Oh how the mighty have fallen - what a shame.
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Gee.....I started a store on Hipstamp in the winter. Sales have been slow, but I have been loading the store. I am dismayed to hear what some think of Hipstamp. From (quite a bit early on) my contact with other sellers, I find them to wonderful in their knowledge base and willingness to help a new seller. I do see some complaints, but I don't see people leaving in droves. And when they recently changed some pricing many members spoke up, and got the attention of the owners. Maybe I will feel differently as time goes on, but I've invested a LOT of hours buying and posting to my store. Too many at this point to give up.
Are there other members here that sell on Hipstamp? And, if not, where do you sell (exclude Ebay)?
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As an APS member i used to buy and sell via the APS circuit books many moons ago. I do not purchase through the stamp store or Hip Stamp. I wonder why the membership was not given a heads up ? I really enjoy going to Bellefonte and hope the decision does not have a negative effect on the APS. phil #070059
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I have had excellent results with purchases through Hipstamp over an extended period of time. While I have had an occasional vendor issue it tends to be related to the usual nondisclosure of heavier than usual hinging or related issues which occur even when I am looking at an item at a stamp show directly. I do wish that various sites could require both front and back pictures of items including Stamporama, eBay, and Hipstamp but see the same issues even with the large auction houses!
I am a bit surprized that APS chose to change their existing sales management method.
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I posted this on Stamp Community Forum, but thought I would include it in this discussion:
"If you read the announcement, it accomplishes two things:
1. Move the StampStore to HipStamp instead of running our own site. The APS StampStore is unstable today and suffers downtime outages longer than acceptable industry standards. This has been a sellers' frustration, and we recognize that. The cost of operating on the HipStamp site is the recoupment cost of credit card transaction fees. So there is no net increase in cost. The sellers continue to send the stamps to us, where APS staff manage the scanning, posting, fulfillment, and buyer questions. Conversely, we had 2,300 buyers last year - 2,000 APS members. HipStamp offers a larger buyer universe for StampStore sellers by a significant factor.
2. A badge and filter system for APS sellers on the HipStamp site. For those members, who elect to post their items, buyers can filter searches to exclusively APS members. We believe this allows the APS to become a more effective arbiter of the Code of Ethics online. We're not going to be perfect out of the gate, but, candidly, this is something we should have mapped out 20 years ago.
eBay and HipStamp have both proposed the badging/store system. Please note that the ASDA agreed to work with eBay on the badging system. I'll let ASDA members who use it speak on whether it works for them.
We elected HipStamp because stamps are the site's core business, and the cost of managing our StampStore did not increase. Building the API did not require a massive outlay, and the offer to the badge and filter APS members was a member benefit for online stamp sellers and buyers.
For sellers, nothing will change in their relationship with StampStore, but we believe the agreement will expose more people to the APS and more eyes to the stamps for sale in StampStore."
Scott
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Scott, when did the APS decide to make a unilateral decision to partner with a commercial site? At what stage was the decision made to purposefully exclude the membership from participation in a discussion around this?
You talk in financial terms and technological terms through most of that note. This is a hobby for most, a job for some. Hipstamp and it's management does not, in many eyes, represent a commercial pinnacle, and I for one am hugely disappointed that this decision has been made to partner with the business.
Dave Sheridan
APS #220750
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I am not a member of APS or Hipstamp.
I am glad I am not a member of either as Scott's post is extremely revealing on the thinking behind APS, Hipstamp and Ebay!!
Thankfully I only sell here on Stamporama!
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Dave --
I have worked very hard to meet APS members and be accessible both online and in person. I value the input I've received over the past seven years and put it to the best use possible. One area of disconnect that has been repeated here, and other places, is the frustration with purchasing items online and a desire for greater responsiveness and accountability.
I completely agree with that sentiment. Unfortunately, we've not really been in the conversation since we operate StampStore and sort of hope things work well everywhere else. I can't speak to every transaction that occurs on HipStamp, but in the long term, we will work with our members to be a louder voice in the way business is done.
The badging system will allow us to better enforce the APS Code of Ethics with online sellers and allow our members to do business with people they know and trust. It seems like a bit of the discussion has been folks expressing frustration with HipStamp and where that exists, we are better positioned to influence different outcomes.
On a broader level, we'd like to show the value of APS membership to a group that is either unfamiliar or disinterested in what we to offer today.
Scott
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I have been a happy and contented APS member since 1985 - that's 37 years.
That you undertook this endeavor without asking your members their thoughts is what is inexcusable. The APS no longer seems like a club, but rather a commercial enterprise operating outside of its membership.
I have no problem with Hipstamp - I've been selling on Hipstamp since 2007 going through all of it's iterations. Feedback well over 15,000 at 100%.
Now what I have to do is find a club that treats it's members as members, rather than just so much noise and a source of funds.
I am not sure whether or not I will continue my membership - a lot depends on whether or not you are willing to listen to those of us who feel blindsided and how these changes affect our relationship with Hipstamp itself.
Time will tell.
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The switchover to Hipstamp FROM THE APS stamp store is fine with me. Hipstamp has a far better user interface. Over several years, I have purchased maybe a couple of stamps and/or covers through APS, and maybe 75 items from Hipstamp and Hip Postcard. I especially appreciate the mid- to hi res, often multiple images that dealers provide.
We APS members hire the society’s employees and elect its board. While it’s always possible to poll members on anything, such a poll would only prolong the switchover (and it seems clear that a change was needed). I am happy to support the change, and would never assume that I know more about APS than its employees and board members know. If a Stamporama member isn’t happy with the switchover to HiP Stamp, then they can protest all they want.
Bob
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Just received today...
...my latest order from the APS Stamp Store. I *might* have one more order, if I submit it now. Otherwise this is the last order from APS. I'll never get another account at HipStamp.
Thanks APS for letting us know it was a done deal. I'll not be renewing my membership.
Pete
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If I were selling on Hipstamp, why would I want to limit my items to APS members? It makes no sense to limit the buying audience.
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Paul (psg) From the extract above, there will be a way to only see APS sellers if that is whom you wish to purchase from. Other buyers will also see their wares and be able to purchase. Whether they will know what APS means is another kettle of fish.
One assumes that APS take a cut of the sale price for the work they will still be doing, would the sellers not be better off posting direct to Hipstamp, reducing the postage and percentage cut. Yes they will have to scan their own items, but presumably they do that anyway before posting such to APS, as knowing what had been sent, versus sold lists.
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I have been an APS member for 40 years and have been quite happy with my membership. I have purchased some items from Stampstore over the years. I also buy on the Stamp Circuits.
I have been a member of Hipstamp since the old Bidstart days. I have mostly sold but have also purchased items on Hipstamp. My current feedback is over 50,000.
I am not planning to abandon either site for the now unless something earth shaking should happen.
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"From the extract above, there will be a way to only see APS sellers if that is whom you wish to purchase from. "
Isn't that a bit unfair on other sellers paying Hipstamp their fees and prospective buyers are only allowed to look at a particuler range of sellers?
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I do find it strange that APS members received a big Email about this but HipStamp has not mentioned it on their site.
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From the APS website:
"For StampStore sellers, the APS will provide the same services as before: scanning, posting, fulfillment, and taking questions from buyers. The only change will be moving our complete inventory to the HipStamp platform. You will still work with APS staff to sell your stamps."
Not super clear, but it looks like "moving our complete inventory" means the online listings – and presumably payment – rather than the whole operation. This is a relief to me because the APS service has been outstanding, especially on occasions where there may be issues with condition or description.
I agree that the membership should have been consulted, and I'm a little miffed at not getting the email.
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I just hope the APS will have some success in getting some major software improvements at Hipstamps. While the site works, it has so many annoying flaws in software design that you need a separate list of countermeasures to get it to operate like it should. An obvious example is the inability of the back arrow to EVER return you to the place you were at. It seems the designers try to MAXIMIZE the number of users clicks, rather than minimizing them. And the lack of "sticky" controls has always a big flaw!
Other flaws, discussed for years with unresponsive Hipstamp management, indicate to me more of a concern with the sellers than the buyers. (after all, Hipstamp makes their money via Sellers charges).
And the SORT engine has ALWAYS been terribly flawed, mixing up numbers, years and obviously working from some hidden info only Hipstamp knows about. Range sorts, and for that matter ALL sorts require a generous amount of forgiveness. But when a sort skips the most obvious answer one looks for (and eventually finds by "gaming" the software, and trying many other queries), I hope the APS linkage may force some corrections. Am I hoping too much?
And then, there are the obvious issues they could have been corrected in seconds, but repeated feedback has been ignored. A simple example (one among many): Brunei is listed in the Middle East for example! 5 years of complaints have yielded nothing. (Ignorance is bliss, look at a map!). Maybe the APS can provide a complaint channel that will get better response.
Let see if the APS-Hipstamp relationship brings about some positive changes to Hipstamp.
rrr...
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Scott,
Thanks for your reply, but you still didn't address the primary question. Why wasn't the membership made aware of this plan? Are you going to be OK with members with 40+ years on the books walking away because of this?
Hipstamp's listing and search engine is clearly flawed, yet APS members are now forced to shop there.
Humour me. Click on British Commonwealth then British Africa then Somaliland. That country was under British mandate from only 1903 to 1960. However, the category shows all the current illegal stamps from Somalia, independent Somalia, Italian Somalia and so on. Despite numerous attempts to get these issues fixed, Mark Rosenberg ignores this type of advice.
At one stage, Rosenberg asked for input re the site (I suggested more than 96 items per page as a good starting point) and seemingly ignored all the suggestions he received as nothing changed. The description of items has never been monitored or policed, which is a flag to serious collectors. Indeed the lack of any form of quality control over descriptions and images is the sites major drawback.
Unless the quality of the Hipstamp site improves (and I doubt that the APS will have any input over that), it's obvious to most of us out here that the APS has climbed into bed with the wrong mistress.
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To me the value of the APS StampStore was not to sell to APS members but a way to offload the work and have someone else deal with scanning, posting, and shipping for a flat percentage. Some do not have the skills or more like the time to do it. APS has also checked them for obvious issues so you have a service that screens them as well.
For example, would some seller here on SOR be willing to get a shipment from me. scan it for the auction. post it, and ship sit for 20 to 25% of the proceeds?
I plan to sell a bunch of US press sheets at some point and would want a third party to deal with it for a percentage. I do not want to be in the shipping business.
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Aren't we all glad that we have Stamporama!!
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"Thanks for your reply, but you still didn't address the primary question. Why wasn't the membership made aware of this plan? Are you OK with members with 40+ years on the books walking away because of this?"
I've read for days now that this deal is way more than it is, no matter how many different ways I respectfully respond that it's not. That's the purpose of the announcement. It's shifting a sales platform - not a massive overhaul of our operations, relocation of our headquarters, or acting in contravention to the organization's bylaws. I made a tactical decision for the organization that aligned our strategic goals of uniting the hobby and averting spending mid-six figures for a new platform. The other option was to shut StampStore down.
No one negotiates a general agreement publicly. I must make decisions for the organization's best interest, financially and otherwise. In seven years, I hope that folks see the changes we've instituted and agree they are, by and large, improvements.
I don't want to lose a single member of the organization, and I take pride in our 90 percent retention rate (near miraculous for a membership organization). At the same time, it's impossible to make every member happy every time, over every decision. This one is different from the folks commenting on this board. But most are different and matter to someone.
I've spent countless hours speaking to thousands of APS members online, in person, and via Zoom. I belong to 80+ local clubs in North America and 30+ international affiliates. I have discussed this issue with members at a smaller scale to get feedback, as I do with everything I do. I'm sorry you do not like this agreement, but it is, in my opinion a practical solution to a practical problem.
Scott
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Scott --
Thanks very much for coming on here and other stamp discussion boards and explaining the APS' perspective on this upcoming change.
As an APS member, I really appreciate it!
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It’s my pleasure. I’ve been making way to Sacramento today, so I probably won’t be commenting for a few days.
For those of you planning to attend the Great American Stamp Show, I hope to see you there.
We do have a General Membership Meeting on Saturday at 9 am followed by another Town Hall Meeting. Please join us.
For those of you on the east coast, I will be at BALPEX the next weekend to host a Town Hall on Friday, 2 September 2022 at 11 am. I love seeing our members and really appreciate the conversations. Please stop by if you’re able.
Scott
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Scott,
Thanks very much for participating on the Stamporama discussion board and providing the additional details regarding the transition of the APS stamp store web interface to the Hipstamp platform.
I have very much appreciated your involvement on Stamporama and the access you have provided to information regarding the APS. I have been a member for just short of 35 years of APS and of Stamporama for just over 5 years. Both have added immensely to my enjoyment of the hobby! It is on my bucket list to visit the APS headquarters within the next year or so.
Only sorry that I will not be able to make it to the APS sponsored Sacramento show this coming weekend but looking forward to Seapex in Seattle on September 9-11, 2022.
Jerrel Baxter
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The APS engages with commercial firms (collector's insurance, for example) all the time without consulting with the membership or asking for permission. We elect officers to act on our behalf in the best interest of the APS.
I believe that the StampStore and the problems running it were interfering with the smooth operations of the Sales Circuits. A recent change in management there has made a big difference. While HipStamp does have it's problems, so do alot of internet sites and smartphone apps. I think some of the complaints about HipStamp are overblown, however. I have no problem with the changes made by the APS.
Michael
APS #136520
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I will be renewing my APS membership, I don't get what the big deal is about HipStamp.
MK
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Everyone has their story. Some good, some bad. I've been ripped off by a so-called dealer in Saskatchewan. HipStamp was of no use, as was the dealer. I forget the other problem. So for a few attempts at buying on HipStamp, it is a 80% or so failure. I gave up.
I won't bother signing up again.
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"Are there other members here that sell on Hipstamp? And, if not, where do you sell (exclude Ebay)?"
Bigcreekdad, I sell on both ebay since 1997, and Hipstamp from its earlier days of Stampwants. I agree the search engine problem to some extent and it has been flawed since its inception. It had a lot of problems when stamps were added to sellers inventory due to the fact that they house sets and singles separately or at least they did. This is a problem for sellers who sell on multi platforms and need to delete from Hip when a stamp sells elsewhere. They also seem to have dropped records over the years, as I have been going through and cleaning up old listings (many of my prices are incredibly outdated) and finding that stamps I thought were in the store from back in 2015 or so, are not there. Ebay drops things as well, so I'm not surprised at that. However, no one has a bulk uploader to match Hipstamp. The fact that you can NOT put in a county code and have it go pretty much to the correct place, giving all kinds of information on the stamp once it is loaded, with NO input from you is amazing. Certainly there has to be flaws in there as Dave mentioned, everything is not always in the correct place. But, that does not mean a person will not find it if they are searching on a specific, only that if they look with a general interest they will not always see what they are expecting to find. There too, it is not any different than a seller on ebay or here even who puts the stamp into the wrong country. No one will find it if you put a stamp from France in Germany, and the the buyer looks at all France stamps.
Stamps are not my big seller on ebay, as I sell many different things. Hipstamp runs hot and cold. I have tried other venues for selling stamps during the Stanley Gibbons ownership of Hipstamp, and for me, it was not worth the time for the poor return. There has been a lot mentioned on Hip about the fee increase to sell monthly and there has been a site called Stampden mentioned. If you are starting out you might want to check them out. They have no conversion process that would make transferring any part of Hipstamp over to them easily so I am not interested. If they ever did I might consider it. For now, just keeping up with the ebay and Hip is enough. On Hipstamp you will also find people who buy one or two stamps a week, spending less than a dollar, and having no issues with paying $1.50 postage. No other place is like that that I have ever sold on.
As to the APS, I was a long time member prior to their move to Bellefonte, but dropped them when they took the side of a buyer of one of my stamps who after ebay would not force me to refund him (back in the day ebay was at least a little bit seller friendly), he then seeing I was an APS member took his case to the APS who forced me to refund him. That was the end of my membership which had been for 30 years up to that point. I found the sales circuits back then way overpriced and now, with the postal increases on packages happening twice a year, they to me anyway, are cost prohibitive. I have no knowledge of the sales platform and how sellers price their stamps.
Greg
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Thanks Greg,
Since the Hips fiasco, Stampden has added the coveted "magic category" using category 175, which then converts it to the correct stampden category.
Addtionally, we now have an ebay online import of up to 1000 items. It also provides for managment of the items
Also has a very robust eApprovals system
Regards
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"We don’t expect Congress to put every bit of legislation on a ballot for us to vote on...". Maybe we should...
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We have a saying in Old Caledonia:-
"The best committee is a committee of one."
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If someone wants APS to put more decisions on the ballots, they need to find people who are like minded to run for office. The bylaws today do not require the membership to vote on anything except the board so would need a bylaws change. But, only about 3000 to 4000 every vote out of the membership so a small percentage. I consider that a concern.
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11:38:33am
" .... "The best committee is a committee of one." ...."
When I need good advice, I talk to myself. At least
that is someone who listens to me.
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04:13:34pm
It's not the people who talk to themselves that bother me... It's the ones who answer back!!!
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08:34:04am
" ..... It's the ones who answer back!!! ....."
The talking back, even whispering won't worry me. But when they start dancing around in concentric circles singing the Hallaluijiah Chorus loudly that I get nervous. The worst part is they seem to know what I was thinking.
And then there is the matter of the flaming torches and pointy pitchforks.
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"Scott, when did the APS decide to make a unilateral decision to partner with a commercial site? At what stage was the decision made to purposefully exclude the membership from participation in a discussion around this? "
Dave, you have legitimate reasons to be disappointed.
I have been disappointed with just about each and every government department and commercial enterprise, so at this point I prefer to bury my head in the sand (put my nose in my stamp stock book and live in this alternative reality).
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02:33:27pm
" .... I have been disappointed with just about each and every
government department and commercial enterprise, ...."
That is sad. I've had difficulties at times but usually things get
sorted out. I feel that most goverment workers are just like
commercial employees people trying to do thir best, and while
mistakes are made, problems are almost always remedied.
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Aye.
Dealing with some organisations can be a pain BUT when you win against all odds it feels Gggrreeaatt!!
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What I have found when a problem arises and is not being fixed you email the Chairman, CEO or CFO of the organisation but you start it with a poem.
Something along the lines of:-
A loyal customer from Angus,
His problem, would like to discuss,
The situation continues apace,
It is a disgrace,
Please help this customer from Angus.
The description of the problem should be as short as possible.
I find that you have a solution to your problem within a couple of hours.
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I'm surprised by the email I've received regarding the "strategic partnership" between the APS and Hipstamp. In my view, Hipstamp is a very mediocre platform and it's owner is sub-par, with little concern for either buyers or sellers.
The decision to move the Stamp Store to the Hipstamp platform seems to have been made without reference to the membership of APS, unless I've missed something. Teaming with a commercial enterprise without reference to the members galls me.
Am I off beam? Thoughts would be appreciated.
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re: APS and Hipstamp
I wonder if APS found the staffing needed to maintain sales section IT aspect too much trouble and expense. They did a web site makeover in part to reduce external IT effort.
As an APS member, I support the idea.
Al Gore JASC
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re: APS and Hipstamp
I'm an APS member too, but I'm not in favour of decisions being made that affect any organisation without members having the opportunity to offer input. It may be a great idea long-term, but it would have been nice for a discussion to be had.
Personally, I think linking with Hipstamp denigrates the APS brand.
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re: APS and Hipstamp
Oh great! There goes a great stamp buying experience! I've had issues with HipStamp that were NEVER resolved. It took a while to delete my account with them. It's more than likely still there, as I haven't bothered going back to them.
If APS is moving their stamp store to HipStamp or something like it, I'm out.
That'll be too bad, at least for me, as I have been buying from APS for a few years now.
I just sent APS Stamp Store an email. If this does indeed happen, I'll not renew my APS membership (#101944)
And I agree with Dave - why no membership input on this plan?
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09:11:07am
re: APS and Hipstamp
I have been an APS member since 1985 - they did not ask me. I sell on Hipstamp and have no real problems with them. I have a HUGE problem with APS moving to Hipstamp with NO input from it's members. I may or may not terminate my membership but will definitely be adding memberships in other societies as a result of this. Isn't APS supposed to be a professional organization rather than just another commercial enterprise?
Oh how the mighty have fallen - what a shame.
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re: APS and Hipstamp
Gee.....I started a store on Hipstamp in the winter. Sales have been slow, but I have been loading the store. I am dismayed to hear what some think of Hipstamp. From (quite a bit early on) my contact with other sellers, I find them to wonderful in their knowledge base and willingness to help a new seller. I do see some complaints, but I don't see people leaving in droves. And when they recently changed some pricing many members spoke up, and got the attention of the owners. Maybe I will feel differently as time goes on, but I've invested a LOT of hours buying and posting to my store. Too many at this point to give up.
Are there other members here that sell on Hipstamp? And, if not, where do you sell (exclude Ebay)?
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re: APS and Hipstamp
As an APS member i used to buy and sell via the APS circuit books many moons ago. I do not purchase through the stamp store or Hip Stamp. I wonder why the membership was not given a heads up ? I really enjoy going to Bellefonte and hope the decision does not have a negative effect on the APS. phil #070059
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re: APS and Hipstamp
I have had excellent results with purchases through Hipstamp over an extended period of time. While I have had an occasional vendor issue it tends to be related to the usual nondisclosure of heavier than usual hinging or related issues which occur even when I am looking at an item at a stamp show directly. I do wish that various sites could require both front and back pictures of items including Stamporama, eBay, and Hipstamp but see the same issues even with the large auction houses!
I am a bit surprized that APS chose to change their existing sales management method.
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11:23:13am
re: APS and Hipstamp
I posted this on Stamp Community Forum, but thought I would include it in this discussion:
"If you read the announcement, it accomplishes two things:
1. Move the StampStore to HipStamp instead of running our own site. The APS StampStore is unstable today and suffers downtime outages longer than acceptable industry standards. This has been a sellers' frustration, and we recognize that. The cost of operating on the HipStamp site is the recoupment cost of credit card transaction fees. So there is no net increase in cost. The sellers continue to send the stamps to us, where APS staff manage the scanning, posting, fulfillment, and buyer questions. Conversely, we had 2,300 buyers last year - 2,000 APS members. HipStamp offers a larger buyer universe for StampStore sellers by a significant factor.
2. A badge and filter system for APS sellers on the HipStamp site. For those members, who elect to post their items, buyers can filter searches to exclusively APS members. We believe this allows the APS to become a more effective arbiter of the Code of Ethics online. We're not going to be perfect out of the gate, but, candidly, this is something we should have mapped out 20 years ago.
eBay and HipStamp have both proposed the badging/store system. Please note that the ASDA agreed to work with eBay on the badging system. I'll let ASDA members who use it speak on whether it works for them.
We elected HipStamp because stamps are the site's core business, and the cost of managing our StampStore did not increase. Building the API did not require a massive outlay, and the offer to the badge and filter APS members was a member benefit for online stamp sellers and buyers.
For sellers, nothing will change in their relationship with StampStore, but we believe the agreement will expose more people to the APS and more eyes to the stamps for sale in StampStore."
Scott
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re: APS and Hipstamp
Scott, when did the APS decide to make a unilateral decision to partner with a commercial site? At what stage was the decision made to purposefully exclude the membership from participation in a discussion around this?
You talk in financial terms and technological terms through most of that note. This is a hobby for most, a job for some. Hipstamp and it's management does not, in many eyes, represent a commercial pinnacle, and I for one am hugely disappointed that this decision has been made to partner with the business.
Dave Sheridan
APS #220750
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12:10:47pm
re: APS and Hipstamp
I am not a member of APS or Hipstamp.
I am glad I am not a member of either as Scott's post is extremely revealing on the thinking behind APS, Hipstamp and Ebay!!
Thankfully I only sell here on Stamporama!
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01:39:34pm
re: APS and Hipstamp
Dave --
I have worked very hard to meet APS members and be accessible both online and in person. I value the input I've received over the past seven years and put it to the best use possible. One area of disconnect that has been repeated here, and other places, is the frustration with purchasing items online and a desire for greater responsiveness and accountability.
I completely agree with that sentiment. Unfortunately, we've not really been in the conversation since we operate StampStore and sort of hope things work well everywhere else. I can't speak to every transaction that occurs on HipStamp, but in the long term, we will work with our members to be a louder voice in the way business is done.
The badging system will allow us to better enforce the APS Code of Ethics with online sellers and allow our members to do business with people they know and trust. It seems like a bit of the discussion has been folks expressing frustration with HipStamp and where that exists, we are better positioned to influence different outcomes.
On a broader level, we'd like to show the value of APS membership to a group that is either unfamiliar or disinterested in what we to offer today.
Scott
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02:16:12pm
re: APS and Hipstamp
I have been a happy and contented APS member since 1985 - that's 37 years.
That you undertook this endeavor without asking your members their thoughts is what is inexcusable. The APS no longer seems like a club, but rather a commercial enterprise operating outside of its membership.
I have no problem with Hipstamp - I've been selling on Hipstamp since 2007 going through all of it's iterations. Feedback well over 15,000 at 100%.
Now what I have to do is find a club that treats it's members as members, rather than just so much noise and a source of funds.
I am not sure whether or not I will continue my membership - a lot depends on whether or not you are willing to listen to those of us who feel blindsided and how these changes affect our relationship with Hipstamp itself.
Time will tell.
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re: APS and Hipstamp
The switchover to Hipstamp FROM THE APS stamp store is fine with me. Hipstamp has a far better user interface. Over several years, I have purchased maybe a couple of stamps and/or covers through APS, and maybe 75 items from Hipstamp and Hip Postcard. I especially appreciate the mid- to hi res, often multiple images that dealers provide.
We APS members hire the society’s employees and elect its board. While it’s always possible to poll members on anything, such a poll would only prolong the switchover (and it seems clear that a change was needed). I am happy to support the change, and would never assume that I know more about APS than its employees and board members know. If a Stamporama member isn’t happy with the switchover to HiP Stamp, then they can protest all they want.
Bob
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re: APS and Hipstamp
Just received today...
...my latest order from the APS Stamp Store. I *might* have one more order, if I submit it now. Otherwise this is the last order from APS. I'll never get another account at HipStamp.
Thanks APS for letting us know it was a done deal. I'll not be renewing my membership.
Pete
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re: APS and Hipstamp
If I were selling on Hipstamp, why would I want to limit my items to APS members? It makes no sense to limit the buying audience.
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re: APS and Hipstamp
Paul (psg) From the extract above, there will be a way to only see APS sellers if that is whom you wish to purchase from. Other buyers will also see their wares and be able to purchase. Whether they will know what APS means is another kettle of fish.
One assumes that APS take a cut of the sale price for the work they will still be doing, would the sellers not be better off posting direct to Hipstamp, reducing the postage and percentage cut. Yes they will have to scan their own items, but presumably they do that anyway before posting such to APS, as knowing what had been sent, versus sold lists.
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re: APS and Hipstamp
I have been an APS member for 40 years and have been quite happy with my membership. I have purchased some items from Stampstore over the years. I also buy on the Stamp Circuits.
I have been a member of Hipstamp since the old Bidstart days. I have mostly sold but have also purchased items on Hipstamp. My current feedback is over 50,000.
I am not planning to abandon either site for the now unless something earth shaking should happen.
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07:59:39pm
re: APS and Hipstamp
"From the extract above, there will be a way to only see APS sellers if that is whom you wish to purchase from. "
Isn't that a bit unfair on other sellers paying Hipstamp their fees and prospective buyers are only allowed to look at a particuler range of sellers?
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re: APS and Hipstamp
I do find it strange that APS members received a big Email about this but HipStamp has not mentioned it on their site.
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09:55:48pm
re: APS and Hipstamp
From the APS website:
"For StampStore sellers, the APS will provide the same services as before: scanning, posting, fulfillment, and taking questions from buyers. The only change will be moving our complete inventory to the HipStamp platform. You will still work with APS staff to sell your stamps."
Not super clear, but it looks like "moving our complete inventory" means the online listings – and presumably payment – rather than the whole operation. This is a relief to me because the APS service has been outstanding, especially on occasions where there may be issues with condition or description.
I agree that the membership should have been consulted, and I'm a little miffed at not getting the email.
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re: APS and Hipstamp
I just hope the APS will have some success in getting some major software improvements at Hipstamps. While the site works, it has so many annoying flaws in software design that you need a separate list of countermeasures to get it to operate like it should. An obvious example is the inability of the back arrow to EVER return you to the place you were at. It seems the designers try to MAXIMIZE the number of users clicks, rather than minimizing them. And the lack of "sticky" controls has always a big flaw!
Other flaws, discussed for years with unresponsive Hipstamp management, indicate to me more of a concern with the sellers than the buyers. (after all, Hipstamp makes their money via Sellers charges).
And the SORT engine has ALWAYS been terribly flawed, mixing up numbers, years and obviously working from some hidden info only Hipstamp knows about. Range sorts, and for that matter ALL sorts require a generous amount of forgiveness. But when a sort skips the most obvious answer one looks for (and eventually finds by "gaming" the software, and trying many other queries), I hope the APS linkage may force some corrections. Am I hoping too much?
And then, there are the obvious issues they could have been corrected in seconds, but repeated feedback has been ignored. A simple example (one among many): Brunei is listed in the Middle East for example! 5 years of complaints have yielded nothing. (Ignorance is bliss, look at a map!). Maybe the APS can provide a complaint channel that will get better response.
Let see if the APS-Hipstamp relationship brings about some positive changes to Hipstamp.
rrr...
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re: APS and Hipstamp
Scott,
Thanks for your reply, but you still didn't address the primary question. Why wasn't the membership made aware of this plan? Are you going to be OK with members with 40+ years on the books walking away because of this?
Hipstamp's listing and search engine is clearly flawed, yet APS members are now forced to shop there.
Humour me. Click on British Commonwealth then British Africa then Somaliland. That country was under British mandate from only 1903 to 1960. However, the category shows all the current illegal stamps from Somalia, independent Somalia, Italian Somalia and so on. Despite numerous attempts to get these issues fixed, Mark Rosenberg ignores this type of advice.
At one stage, Rosenberg asked for input re the site (I suggested more than 96 items per page as a good starting point) and seemingly ignored all the suggestions he received as nothing changed. The description of items has never been monitored or policed, which is a flag to serious collectors. Indeed the lack of any form of quality control over descriptions and images is the sites major drawback.
Unless the quality of the Hipstamp site improves (and I doubt that the APS will have any input over that), it's obvious to most of us out here that the APS has climbed into bed with the wrong mistress.
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re: APS and Hipstamp
To me the value of the APS StampStore was not to sell to APS members but a way to offload the work and have someone else deal with scanning, posting, and shipping for a flat percentage. Some do not have the skills or more like the time to do it. APS has also checked them for obvious issues so you have a service that screens them as well.
For example, would some seller here on SOR be willing to get a shipment from me. scan it for the auction. post it, and ship sit for 20 to 25% of the proceeds?
I plan to sell a bunch of US press sheets at some point and would want a third party to deal with it for a percentage. I do not want to be in the shipping business.
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08:09:44am
re: APS and Hipstamp
Aren't we all glad that we have Stamporama!!
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03:29:21pm
re: APS and Hipstamp
"Thanks for your reply, but you still didn't address the primary question. Why wasn't the membership made aware of this plan? Are you OK with members with 40+ years on the books walking away because of this?"
I've read for days now that this deal is way more than it is, no matter how many different ways I respectfully respond that it's not. That's the purpose of the announcement. It's shifting a sales platform - not a massive overhaul of our operations, relocation of our headquarters, or acting in contravention to the organization's bylaws. I made a tactical decision for the organization that aligned our strategic goals of uniting the hobby and averting spending mid-six figures for a new platform. The other option was to shut StampStore down.
No one negotiates a general agreement publicly. I must make decisions for the organization's best interest, financially and otherwise. In seven years, I hope that folks see the changes we've instituted and agree they are, by and large, improvements.
I don't want to lose a single member of the organization, and I take pride in our 90 percent retention rate (near miraculous for a membership organization). At the same time, it's impossible to make every member happy every time, over every decision. This one is different from the folks commenting on this board. But most are different and matter to someone.
I've spent countless hours speaking to thousands of APS members online, in person, and via Zoom. I belong to 80+ local clubs in North America and 30+ international affiliates. I have discussed this issue with members at a smaller scale to get feedback, as I do with everything I do. I'm sorry you do not like this agreement, but it is, in my opinion a practical solution to a practical problem.
Scott
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re: APS and Hipstamp
Scott --
Thanks very much for coming on here and other stamp discussion boards and explaining the APS' perspective on this upcoming change.
As an APS member, I really appreciate it!
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08:04:54pm
re: APS and Hipstamp
It’s my pleasure. I’ve been making way to Sacramento today, so I probably won’t be commenting for a few days.
For those of you planning to attend the Great American Stamp Show, I hope to see you there.
We do have a General Membership Meeting on Saturday at 9 am followed by another Town Hall Meeting. Please join us.
For those of you on the east coast, I will be at BALPEX the next weekend to host a Town Hall on Friday, 2 September 2022 at 11 am. I love seeing our members and really appreciate the conversations. Please stop by if you’re able.
Scott
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re: APS and Hipstamp
Scott,
Thanks very much for participating on the Stamporama discussion board and providing the additional details regarding the transition of the APS stamp store web interface to the Hipstamp platform.
I have very much appreciated your involvement on Stamporama and the access you have provided to information regarding the APS. I have been a member for just short of 35 years of APS and of Stamporama for just over 5 years. Both have added immensely to my enjoyment of the hobby! It is on my bucket list to visit the APS headquarters within the next year or so.
Only sorry that I will not be able to make it to the APS sponsored Sacramento show this coming weekend but looking forward to Seapex in Seattle on September 9-11, 2022.
Jerrel Baxter
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re: APS and Hipstamp
The APS engages with commercial firms (collector's insurance, for example) all the time without consulting with the membership or asking for permission. We elect officers to act on our behalf in the best interest of the APS.
I believe that the StampStore and the problems running it were interfering with the smooth operations of the Sales Circuits. A recent change in management there has made a big difference. While HipStamp does have it's problems, so do alot of internet sites and smartphone apps. I think some of the complaints about HipStamp are overblown, however. I have no problem with the changes made by the APS.
Michael
APS #136520
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re: APS and Hipstamp
I will be renewing my APS membership, I don't get what the big deal is about HipStamp.
MK
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re: APS and Hipstamp
Everyone has their story. Some good, some bad. I've been ripped off by a so-called dealer in Saskatchewan. HipStamp was of no use, as was the dealer. I forget the other problem. So for a few attempts at buying on HipStamp, it is a 80% or so failure. I gave up.
I won't bother signing up again.
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Approvals
re: APS and Hipstamp
"Are there other members here that sell on Hipstamp? And, if not, where do you sell (exclude Ebay)?"
Bigcreekdad, I sell on both ebay since 1997, and Hipstamp from its earlier days of Stampwants. I agree the search engine problem to some extent and it has been flawed since its inception. It had a lot of problems when stamps were added to sellers inventory due to the fact that they house sets and singles separately or at least they did. This is a problem for sellers who sell on multi platforms and need to delete from Hip when a stamp sells elsewhere. They also seem to have dropped records over the years, as I have been going through and cleaning up old listings (many of my prices are incredibly outdated) and finding that stamps I thought were in the store from back in 2015 or so, are not there. Ebay drops things as well, so I'm not surprised at that. However, no one has a bulk uploader to match Hipstamp. The fact that you can NOT put in a county code and have it go pretty much to the correct place, giving all kinds of information on the stamp once it is loaded, with NO input from you is amazing. Certainly there has to be flaws in there as Dave mentioned, everything is not always in the correct place. But, that does not mean a person will not find it if they are searching on a specific, only that if they look with a general interest they will not always see what they are expecting to find. There too, it is not any different than a seller on ebay or here even who puts the stamp into the wrong country. No one will find it if you put a stamp from France in Germany, and the the buyer looks at all France stamps.
Stamps are not my big seller on ebay, as I sell many different things. Hipstamp runs hot and cold. I have tried other venues for selling stamps during the Stanley Gibbons ownership of Hipstamp, and for me, it was not worth the time for the poor return. There has been a lot mentioned on Hip about the fee increase to sell monthly and there has been a site called Stampden mentioned. If you are starting out you might want to check them out. They have no conversion process that would make transferring any part of Hipstamp over to them easily so I am not interested. If they ever did I might consider it. For now, just keeping up with the ebay and Hip is enough. On Hipstamp you will also find people who buy one or two stamps a week, spending less than a dollar, and having no issues with paying $1.50 postage. No other place is like that that I have ever sold on.
As to the APS, I was a long time member prior to their move to Bellefonte, but dropped them when they took the side of a buyer of one of my stamps who after ebay would not force me to refund him (back in the day ebay was at least a little bit seller friendly), he then seeing I was an APS member took his case to the APS who forced me to refund him. That was the end of my membership which had been for 30 years up to that point. I found the sales circuits back then way overpriced and now, with the postal increases on packages happening twice a year, they to me anyway, are cost prohibitive. I have no knowledge of the sales platform and how sellers price their stamps.
Greg
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06:09:03am
Auctions
re: APS and Hipstamp
Thanks Greg,
Since the Hips fiasco, Stampden has added the coveted "magic category" using category 175, which then converts it to the correct stampden category.
Addtionally, we now have an ebay online import of up to 1000 items. It also provides for managment of the items
Also has a very robust eApprovals system
Regards
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re: APS and Hipstamp
"We don’t expect Congress to put every bit of legislation on a ballot for us to vote on...". Maybe we should...
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05:59:17pm
re: APS and Hipstamp
We have a saying in Old Caledonia:-
"The best committee is a committee of one."
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re: APS and Hipstamp
If someone wants APS to put more decisions on the ballots, they need to find people who are like minded to run for office. The bylaws today do not require the membership to vote on anything except the board so would need a bylaws change. But, only about 3000 to 4000 every vote out of the membership so a small percentage. I consider that a concern.
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Silence in the face of adversity is the father of complicity and collusion, the first cousins of conspiracy..
02 Sep 2022
11:38:33am
re: APS and Hipstamp
" .... "The best committee is a committee of one." ...."
When I need good advice, I talk to myself. At least
that is someone who listens to me.
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Back when I had a bunch! I think, therefore I am - I think! Descartes, sort of!
02 Sep 2022
04:13:34pm
re: APS and Hipstamp
It's not the people who talk to themselves that bother me... It's the ones who answer back!!!
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Silence in the face of adversity is the father of complicity and collusion, the first cousins of conspiracy..
04 Sep 2022
08:34:04am
re: APS and Hipstamp
" ..... It's the ones who answer back!!! ....."
The talking back, even whispering won't worry me. But when they start dancing around in concentric circles singing the Hallaluijiah Chorus loudly that I get nervous. The worst part is they seem to know what I was thinking.
And then there is the matter of the flaming torches and pointy pitchforks.
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Approvals
re: APS and Hipstamp
"Scott, when did the APS decide to make a unilateral decision to partner with a commercial site? At what stage was the decision made to purposefully exclude the membership from participation in a discussion around this? "
Dave, you have legitimate reasons to be disappointed.
I have been disappointed with just about each and every government department and commercial enterprise, so at this point I prefer to bury my head in the sand (put my nose in my stamp stock book and live in this alternative reality).
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Silence in the face of adversity is the father of complicity and collusion, the first cousins of conspiracy..
10 Sep 2022
02:33:27pm
re: APS and Hipstamp
" .... I have been disappointed with just about each and every
government department and commercial enterprise, ...."
That is sad. I've had difficulties at times but usually things get
sorted out. I feel that most goverment workers are just like
commercial employees people trying to do thir best, and while
mistakes are made, problems are almost always remedied.
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03:06:13pm
re: APS and Hipstamp
Aye.
Dealing with some organisations can be a pain BUT when you win against all odds it feels Gggrreeaatt!!
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02:33:17pm
re: APS and Hipstamp
What I have found when a problem arises and is not being fixed you email the Chairman, CEO or CFO of the organisation but you start it with a poem.
Something along the lines of:-
A loyal customer from Angus,
His problem, would like to discuss,
The situation continues apace,
It is a disgrace,
Please help this customer from Angus.
The description of the problem should be as short as possible.
I find that you have a solution to your problem within a couple of hours.
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