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Europe/Other : FRANCE more on the subject of pre-cancelled stamps. Final, extended to 1996.

 

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rrraphy
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Retired Consultant

01 Jun 2022
03:16:16pm
The Scott catalog, for those who just rely on it, fails to separate the French pre-cancelled stamps, while the Y & T and the Ceres Catalogs both assign a special category and numbering system to them. In the Scott catalog, pre-cancelled stamps are lumped with the general stamps listings, but prior to 1947, such distinction is not made, except occasionally with remarks, and coverage is lacking.

I have been working as of late on France pre-cancelled, and will share a few pages for stamps issued from 1922 to 1947. My 1920-1922 page is still too empty to share, but the 1922-1947 collection is almost complete...except....
There are two variations of o/p as shown below:
Image Not Found

My collection does not yet reflect the two variations, but otherwise, most stamps issued are shown in the following 3 pages.

Image Not Found

Image Not Found

Image Not Found

rrr...



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"E. Rutherford: All science is either physics or stamp collecting."
rrraphy
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Retired Consultant

02 Jun 2022
06:09:35pm
re: FRANCE more on the subject of pre-cancelled stamps. Final, extended to 1996.

Is there an interest in my continuing to scan the pre-cancelled pages for France? (you can respond privately if you wish)
rrr...

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sheepshanks
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02 Jun 2022
06:20:42pm
re: FRANCE more on the subject of pre-cancelled stamps. Final, extended to 1996.

Yes please Ralph, apart from my own interest I'm sure that it will serve as a good visual reference for any future French pre-cancel collectors.
I have very few of the later ones and certainly none of the early issues. Looks like you have put a lot of work and time into your collection.

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rrraphy
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Retired Consultant

02 Jun 2022
07:18:23pm
re: FRANCE more on the subject of pre-cancelled stamps. Final, extended to 1996.

Pre-Cancelled Stamps of France from 1953 to 1960
There are two themes, the Harvester or Farm Woman (which exist with and without pre-cancel, for subsequent issues) and the Gallic Coq which only exists pre-cancelled.

Y&T numbers are: #106, and #108 for the Farm Woman, and for the Gallic Coq #107, #109 to 122. Note that the #119 to 122 are in New Franks.
The Scott Catalog numbers are:
1953-4: #707-708 for the Farm Woman, #709-710 for the Gallic Coq
1954: #840-844 Gallic Coq
1959: #910-913 Gallic Coq
1960: #952-955 Gallic Coq

Here are the stamps (in the Scott Catalog order)

Image Not Found

Image Not Found

Image Not Found

Image Not Found

The next motif for France pre-cancels is the Gallic Coin, issued between 1964 and 1976 Y&T numbers 123 to 145. This was followed by Zodiac Signs from 1977 to 1978, Mushrooms 1979, Monuments 1979-1982...etc..
To be included at a later time, after I scan them. Gallic Coins and subsequent types through 1996 are also issue Non perforated.

rrr...

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"E. Rutherford: All science is either physics or stamp collecting."
rrraphy
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Retired Consultant

03 Jun 2022
06:34:53pm
re: FRANCE more on the subject of pre-cancelled stamps. Final, extended to 1996.

Continuing with the pre-cancelled stamps of FRANCE from 1964 to 1976 it was the use of the Gallic Coin, Y&T numbers 123 to 145.
The Scott Numbers are: 1096-1099,1240-1242, 1315-1318, 1421-1424, 1460-1463, and 1487-1490.
These are shown below, in the sequential order of the Scott Catalog.

Just a comment about the scans, as I use a camera instead of the scanner, and there may be a bit of distortion due to angle relative to the paper and the fact that the pages which are in my 2-hole Scott album are a bit curved, unless I take them out to lay flat on the scanner, and I have elected not to do.

1964-1966
Image Not Found

1969
Image Not Found

1971
Image Not Found Image Not Found

1975
Image Not Found

1976
Image Not Found

Next will be the 1977->> precancelled stamps, with the Zodiac Signs from 1977 to 1978, Mushrooms 1979, Monuments 1979-1982, 4 Seasons 1983, Playing cards 1984, Months of the Year 1985 to 1987, the Four Elements 1988 and finally the Musical Instruments of 1989 to 1993.
While the pre-cancelled stamps issued by France continue after 1993, I will not cover them for lack of completeness in my collection right now.

rrr...




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sheepshanks
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03 Jun 2022
07:05:25pm
re: FRANCE more on the subject of pre-cancelled stamps. Final, extended to 1996.

I really have trouble seeing the face on the coin, that blob on the cheek really throws me, keep thinking I'm looking at a fish head.
Are your stamps used or mint? Guess if they have gum you could soak it off and call them used anyway.
Not sure I like the stylised "2's" on the 1969 22c and strange that the 7's are not what we always accepted as a French 7 with the extra horizontal line.
Thanks Ralph, look forward to the next instalment.

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rrraphy
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Retired Consultant

04 Jun 2022
02:53:12am
re: FRANCE more on the subject of pre-cancelled stamps. Final, extended to 1996.

Sheepshank: re

"I really have trouble seeing the face on the coin, that blob on the cheek really throws me, keep thinking I'm looking at a fish head."

I always thought there was a bit of Picasso in these coins! My stamps a MNH which in itself is odd for pre-cancelled. But most stamps you can find will be like that. Hard to find really cancelled pre-cancelled.

More in a day or two.
rrr...


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"E. Rutherford: All science is either physics or stamp collecting."
rrraphy
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Retired Consultant

04 Jun 2022
06:39:36pm
re: FRANCE more on the subject of pre-cancelled stamps. Final, extended to 1996.

Continuing with the France pre-cancelled from 1977--> here are the next photo/scans with



The Zodiac Signs from 1977-1978, Y & T #146 to 161, Scott #1522-1533.
The Mushrooms 1979, Y & T #158-161, Scott #1630-1633
The Historical Monuments 1979-1982, Y & T #162-177, Scott #1653-1656, 1684-1687, 1719-1722, 1814-1817
The 4 Seasons 1983, Y & T #178-181, Scott #1849-1852
The Playing cards 1984, Y & T #182-185, Scott #1919-1922
The Months of the Year 1985-1987, Y & T #186-197, Scott #1953-1964
and The Four Elements 1988, Y & T #198-201, Scott #2101-2104.

The last 2 sets of stamps I will cover in my next post are the the Musical Instruments of 1989 to 1993, one of my favorites, and the Tree Leaves of 1994-1996.


Image Not Found

Image Not Found

Image Not Found

rrr.....

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"E. Rutherford: All science is either physics or stamp collecting."
d1stamper
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04 Jun 2022
07:00:54pm

Auctions
re: FRANCE more on the subject of pre-cancelled stamps. Final, extended to 1996.

Thanks for posting your collection.

Doug

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"https://www.stampden.com/store/d1stamper"
rrraphy
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Retired Consultant

05 Jun 2022
12:04:06am
re: FRANCE more on the subject of pre-cancelled stamps. Final, extended to 1996.

I forgot to include the Y & T and Scott numbers in my last post. I have added them, for reference.

My last contribution on the subject (although more pre-cancelled stamps were issued after 1996, but I just don't have them to show).
There are two series of Interest:
Musical Instruments, spanning 1989 to 1993, Y & T numbers Préoblitérés #202 to 231, Scott numbers 2169-2172, 2233-2239, 2273-2283, 2303-2306, and 2368-2371.

And Tree Leaves from 1994 to 1996, Y & T numbers Préoblitérés #232 to 239, Scott numbers 2438-2441, 2517-2550.

These are shown below ( I have to display them on two consecutive posts due a new software spacing related bug, I have just reported):


Image Not Found

rrr...


















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"E. Rutherford: All science is either physics or stamp collecting."
rrraphy
Members Picture


Retired Consultant

05 Jun 2022
12:05:11am
re: FRANCE more on the subject of pre-cancelled stamps. Final, extended to 1996.

Continuing from the last post, the missing scan:


Image Not Found

That is all.
rrr....

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"E. Rutherford: All science is either physics or stamp collecting."
StampCollector
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05 Jun 2022
09:52:38am

Auctions - Approvals
re: FRANCE more on the subject of pre-cancelled stamps. Final, extended to 1996.

Very informative thread, I was so frustrated with my French precancels that I just grouped them in the back pages of my French collection for a later, how late?
review of the stamps.
I have stamps with both printings, fine et lourde (fine and corse) that need a closer look, originally I thought that it was overinking, now I know better. I may finally get to them one of these days.

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this post

"Those that can make you believe absurdities, can make you commit atrocities"
rrraphy
Members Picture


Retired Consultant

06 Jun 2022
01:48:27pm
re: FRANCE more on the subject of pre-cancelled stamps. Final, extended to 1996.

Has anyone here completed, or made good progress on the 1920-1922 precancelled stamps of France featuring on 3 lines "POSTES PARIS DATE" and "POSTES FRANCE DATE" on the "sower" 5c. 15c and 30c stamps? Most interested in how you navigated the counterfeit problems.
Would love to have your comments and see it
rrr..

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"E. Rutherford: All science is either physics or stamp collecting."
        

 

Author/Postings
Members Picture
rrraphy

Retired Consultant
01 Jun 2022
03:16:16pm

The Scott catalog, for those who just rely on it, fails to separate the French pre-cancelled stamps, while the Y & T and the Ceres Catalogs both assign a special category and numbering system to them. In the Scott catalog, pre-cancelled stamps are lumped with the general stamps listings, but prior to 1947, such distinction is not made, except occasionally with remarks, and coverage is lacking.

I have been working as of late on France pre-cancelled, and will share a few pages for stamps issued from 1922 to 1947. My 1920-1922 page is still too empty to share, but the 1922-1947 collection is almost complete...except....
There are two variations of o/p as shown below:
Image Not Found

My collection does not yet reflect the two variations, but otherwise, most stamps issued are shown in the following 3 pages.

Image Not Found

Image Not Found

Image Not Found

rrr...



Like 
8 Members
like this post.
Login to Like.

"E. Rutherford: All science is either physics or stamp collecting."
Members Picture
rrraphy

Retired Consultant
02 Jun 2022
06:09:35pm

re: FRANCE more on the subject of pre-cancelled stamps. Final, extended to 1996.

Is there an interest in my continuing to scan the pre-cancelled pages for France? (you can respond privately if you wish)
rrr...

Like 
1 Member
likes this post.
Login to Like.

"E. Rutherford: All science is either physics or stamp collecting."
Members Picture
sheepshanks

02 Jun 2022
06:20:42pm

re: FRANCE more on the subject of pre-cancelled stamps. Final, extended to 1996.

Yes please Ralph, apart from my own interest I'm sure that it will serve as a good visual reference for any future French pre-cancel collectors.
I have very few of the later ones and certainly none of the early issues. Looks like you have put a lot of work and time into your collection.

Like
Login to Like
this post
Members Picture
rrraphy

Retired Consultant
02 Jun 2022
07:18:23pm

re: FRANCE more on the subject of pre-cancelled stamps. Final, extended to 1996.

Pre-Cancelled Stamps of France from 1953 to 1960
There are two themes, the Harvester or Farm Woman (which exist with and without pre-cancel, for subsequent issues) and the Gallic Coq which only exists pre-cancelled.

Y&T numbers are: #106, and #108 for the Farm Woman, and for the Gallic Coq #107, #109 to 122. Note that the #119 to 122 are in New Franks.
The Scott Catalog numbers are:
1953-4: #707-708 for the Farm Woman, #709-710 for the Gallic Coq
1954: #840-844 Gallic Coq
1959: #910-913 Gallic Coq
1960: #952-955 Gallic Coq

Here are the stamps (in the Scott Catalog order)

Image Not Found

Image Not Found

Image Not Found

Image Not Found

The next motif for France pre-cancels is the Gallic Coin, issued between 1964 and 1976 Y&T numbers 123 to 145. This was followed by Zodiac Signs from 1977 to 1978, Mushrooms 1979, Monuments 1979-1982...etc..
To be included at a later time, after I scan them. Gallic Coins and subsequent types through 1996 are also issue Non perforated.

rrr...

Like 
3 Members
like this post.
Login to Like.

"E. Rutherford: All science is either physics or stamp collecting."
Members Picture
rrraphy

Retired Consultant
03 Jun 2022
06:34:53pm

re: FRANCE more on the subject of pre-cancelled stamps. Final, extended to 1996.

Continuing with the pre-cancelled stamps of FRANCE from 1964 to 1976 it was the use of the Gallic Coin, Y&T numbers 123 to 145.
The Scott Numbers are: 1096-1099,1240-1242, 1315-1318, 1421-1424, 1460-1463, and 1487-1490.
These are shown below, in the sequential order of the Scott Catalog.

Just a comment about the scans, as I use a camera instead of the scanner, and there may be a bit of distortion due to angle relative to the paper and the fact that the pages which are in my 2-hole Scott album are a bit curved, unless I take them out to lay flat on the scanner, and I have elected not to do.

1964-1966
Image Not Found

1969
Image Not Found

1971
Image Not Found Image Not Found

1975
Image Not Found

1976
Image Not Found

Next will be the 1977->> precancelled stamps, with the Zodiac Signs from 1977 to 1978, Mushrooms 1979, Monuments 1979-1982, 4 Seasons 1983, Playing cards 1984, Months of the Year 1985 to 1987, the Four Elements 1988 and finally the Musical Instruments of 1989 to 1993.
While the pre-cancelled stamps issued by France continue after 1993, I will not cover them for lack of completeness in my collection right now.

rrr...




Like 
7 Members
like this post.
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"E. Rutherford: All science is either physics or stamp collecting."
Members Picture
sheepshanks

03 Jun 2022
07:05:25pm

re: FRANCE more on the subject of pre-cancelled stamps. Final, extended to 1996.

I really have trouble seeing the face on the coin, that blob on the cheek really throws me, keep thinking I'm looking at a fish head.
Are your stamps used or mint? Guess if they have gum you could soak it off and call them used anyway.
Not sure I like the stylised "2's" on the 1969 22c and strange that the 7's are not what we always accepted as a French 7 with the extra horizontal line.
Thanks Ralph, look forward to the next instalment.

Like
Login to Like
this post
Members Picture
rrraphy

Retired Consultant
04 Jun 2022
02:53:12am

re: FRANCE more on the subject of pre-cancelled stamps. Final, extended to 1996.

Sheepshank: re

"I really have trouble seeing the face on the coin, that blob on the cheek really throws me, keep thinking I'm looking at a fish head."

I always thought there was a bit of Picasso in these coins! My stamps a MNH which in itself is odd for pre-cancelled. But most stamps you can find will be like that. Hard to find really cancelled pre-cancelled.

More in a day or two.
rrr...


Like 
2 Members
like this post.
Login to Like.

"E. Rutherford: All science is either physics or stamp collecting."
Members Picture
rrraphy

Retired Consultant
04 Jun 2022
06:39:36pm

re: FRANCE more on the subject of pre-cancelled stamps. Final, extended to 1996.

Continuing with the France pre-cancelled from 1977--> here are the next photo/scans with



The Zodiac Signs from 1977-1978, Y & T #146 to 161, Scott #1522-1533.
The Mushrooms 1979, Y & T #158-161, Scott #1630-1633
The Historical Monuments 1979-1982, Y & T #162-177, Scott #1653-1656, 1684-1687, 1719-1722, 1814-1817
The 4 Seasons 1983, Y & T #178-181, Scott #1849-1852
The Playing cards 1984, Y & T #182-185, Scott #1919-1922
The Months of the Year 1985-1987, Y & T #186-197, Scott #1953-1964
and The Four Elements 1988, Y & T #198-201, Scott #2101-2104.

The last 2 sets of stamps I will cover in my next post are the the Musical Instruments of 1989 to 1993, one of my favorites, and the Tree Leaves of 1994-1996.


Image Not Found

Image Not Found

Image Not Found

rrr.....

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"E. Rutherford: All science is either physics or stamp collecting."
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d1stamper

04 Jun 2022
07:00:54pm

Auctions

re: FRANCE more on the subject of pre-cancelled stamps. Final, extended to 1996.

Thanks for posting your collection.

Doug

Like
Login to Like
this post

"https://www.stampden.com/store/d1stamper"
Members Picture
rrraphy

Retired Consultant
05 Jun 2022
12:04:06am

re: FRANCE more on the subject of pre-cancelled stamps. Final, extended to 1996.

I forgot to include the Y & T and Scott numbers in my last post. I have added them, for reference.

My last contribution on the subject (although more pre-cancelled stamps were issued after 1996, but I just don't have them to show).
There are two series of Interest:
Musical Instruments, spanning 1989 to 1993, Y & T numbers Préoblitérés #202 to 231, Scott numbers 2169-2172, 2233-2239, 2273-2283, 2303-2306, and 2368-2371.

And Tree Leaves from 1994 to 1996, Y & T numbers Préoblitérés #232 to 239, Scott numbers 2438-2441, 2517-2550.

These are shown below ( I have to display them on two consecutive posts due a new software spacing related bug, I have just reported):


Image Not Found

rrr...


















Like 
3 Members
like this post.
Login to Like.

"E. Rutherford: All science is either physics or stamp collecting."
Members Picture
rrraphy

Retired Consultant
05 Jun 2022
12:05:11am

re: FRANCE more on the subject of pre-cancelled stamps. Final, extended to 1996.

Continuing from the last post, the missing scan:


Image Not Found

That is all.
rrr....

Like 
5 Members
like this post.
Login to Like.

"E. Rutherford: All science is either physics or stamp collecting."
Members Picture
StampCollector

05 Jun 2022
09:52:38am

Auctions - Approvals

re: FRANCE more on the subject of pre-cancelled stamps. Final, extended to 1996.

Very informative thread, I was so frustrated with my French precancels that I just grouped them in the back pages of my French collection for a later, how late?
review of the stamps.
I have stamps with both printings, fine et lourde (fine and corse) that need a closer look, originally I thought that it was overinking, now I know better. I may finally get to them one of these days.

Like
Login to Like
this post

"Those that can make ...
Members Picture
rrraphy

Retired Consultant
06 Jun 2022
01:48:27pm

re: FRANCE more on the subject of pre-cancelled stamps. Final, extended to 1996.

Has anyone here completed, or made good progress on the 1920-1922 precancelled stamps of France featuring on 3 lines "POSTES PARIS DATE" and "POSTES FRANCE DATE" on the "sower" 5c. 15c and 30c stamps? Most interested in how you navigated the counterfeit problems.
Would love to have your comments and see it
rrr..

Like
Login to Like
this post

"E. Rutherford: All science is either physics or stamp collecting."
        

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