Discussion - Member to Member Sales - Research Center
Discussion - Member to Member Sales - Research Center
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Joe,
Probably the best advice you could receive is the age old "Caveat Emptor" and this one sounds like trouble from the get-go. Too many choices to make, which could cost you a lot of money! I would suggest a certificate for this one, which they don't offer, I imagine, but worth the price, if you really, really need this stamp. A reputable dealer would also be a good idea for anything of this value, plus a deeper search for this stamp, because there are many avenues available to find just about any stamp you are looking for.
Good luck in your endeavor!
Mike
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Given the pricing difference between the regular and port Fouad o/p stamps, I apply just one rule:
If it does not have a verifiable certificate, it is a forgery.
Apart from the stamp, double check the certificate.
Rrr...
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03:37:35am
" .... Apart from the stamp, double check the certificate. ...."
I as just about n to write that. After all, how hard could it be
for a diligent forger to create an authentic looking certificate
from a quasi- organization with an impressive name ?
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Does this document assist? It shows a genuine overprint compared to a fake.
http://www.egyptstudycircle.org.uk/ESCme ...
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Thanks Dave.
The key here is the low number of authentic stamps issued
""very limited quantity, namely, 2500 stamps or each of the three lower values and 1500 stamps of
the 50 piastres stamp."
"
Without o/p, the lower denomination 3 stamps (Scott #118-120) are quite plentiful, and can be purchased for just a few dollars. The higher denomination stamp (Scott 114) is a bit rarer, but not so much as to make it impossible to buy at any time.
And there are much better counterfeit stamps today than was reported in the 1962 article.
Some time ago, I was aware of one seller (in a Middle Eastern location..can't remember where, could have been UAE) who consistently offered the Port Fouad o/p on ebay, week after week. That alone would disqualify him/her as a reliable source. There are just not enough free floating copies, as I have been looking for a fairly priced, with certificate, set for over 20 years, with no success! Signed stamps, which seem to be plentiful, are also not enough to validate authenticity! There are a lot of stamps with dubious marks on the back.
rrr...
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That's all very helpful. Since I really can't afford a certificated set, I think I'm just going to slip in forgeries (and designate them as such in my album) as space fillers. I don't imagine I'll ever sell my collection, but my grandkids might after I'm gone. I let them explain what's real and what's fake.
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So one more thought. I've seen forgeries listed in Scott's for more than the actual stamp. How much do you think a Port Fouad forgery is worth? Scott only states they exist.
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I have a real problem paying for modern counterfeits. Collectors may collect notorious counterfeiter's stamps which are well documented.
I myself would get a copy of the stamps without the o/p (can be done cheaply for the 3 lower valued, for sure) and add a small postit like label with a Port Fouad o/p label to put in your collection. Serves the same purpose, to id the stamp in place, and you are not supporting the counterfeit trade, you have genuine stamps, and it stands out when you look at the page.
Here is an example of what I do.
I also may make a copy of a reference scan with description of counterfeits, if I have one, and put it next to the stamps. for example: p37 of https://www.davidfeldman.com/wp-content/ ...
rrr...
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04:03:33pm
" ... Here is an example of what I do ..."
Whatever floats your boat, it is your collection.
But my head is shaking in wonderment as I
cannot see what benefit that is over an open
space.
I think I'd rather have a rubber stamp company
create two small stamps; one with "Port Fouad"
to be used on the front of the stamps and a
second reading,
"Forgery" or "Home Made Forgery," in small type,
for the reverse side.
In fact, that seems to be a great idea for filling in
my missing "Guam" and Kansas - Nebraska" over
print spaces.
I could even sell extras in the auction as "Genuine forgerues."
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04:28:12pm
I collect several areas that are absolutely teeming with forgeries. In many cases, for example early overprinted Russia or Poland, I refuse to pay very much since, for me, it is impossible to tell the difference. I put a neat pencil comment at the top of these pages that usually says "forgeries abound". There are people trying to sell these stamps on-line at ridiculous prices with no certification at all - CRAZY! I refuse to send a huge lot of stamps away to be certified, way too expensive and for some areas I think the certifiers are just guessing anyway. Just live with your collection and do whatever you think is right for you. That's really all you can do!!
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Charles, I agree that it is a strange idea, until you apply it, not just to counterfeits, but to o/p stamps that are extremely hard to identify correctly.
These abound in areas I collect, in particular for older Ottoman empire stamps, Saudi Arabia, some of the French Middle Eastern o/p etc...etc..
Have you ever tried to id a stamp just from the description in Scott without any image?
Examples abound for me where without an image, you are more likely to make a mistake, especially when 90% of the listed stamps on the various platforms make similar mistakes or even worse id mistakes. Don't try to id your stamp from the images posted by others!
The goal of putting a stamp in the spot rather than a void is that, in the few cases where you can find a stamp, it will allows a quick verification. Referencing early stamps of Turkey for example from the late 1800s to early 1900s, try to see how difficult it some times is to separate the various tughras and o/p types as applied to early definitive stamps, their various ops, semi postal, official and newspaper derivatives. When the album has a printed image, it probably is less useful, if you can truly id the image from the reproduction printed.
The other purpose is to pass on the analysis you have done to whoever inherits of your collection.
Now if you don't intend to eventually fill the spot, or pass it on, then I agree it seems like an idea with no benefit.
Finally to return to the purpose of my answer, I would not seek out counterfeit stamps to fill any open space in my albums.
rrr...
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My greatest satisfaction is to turn multiple pages of my album and seeing each one filled, no voids. Throwing a forgery in the empty slots, that will most likely otherwise stay empty forever, gives me the satisfaction of seeing a full page. Labeling it a forgery is something I do just out of scruples for future owners of the collection. I suppose I'm not a purist, but who the hell is looking at my collection other than myself?
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03:21:36pm
So I'm looking on Ebay at the Port Fouad overprints on Egyptian stamps valued at $300 and $1600 (Scott 121-124). Some are clearly forged, blurry prints, wrong position, odd fonts. Some are even advertised as forgeries. So here I am, comparing 10 different auctions, and there are clear differences, but how do you know which one is the authentic one? Maybe they are all forgeries. Maybe the authentic ones varied in the position of the overprint. I googled trying to find an authority and ended up here at StampoRama, but still can't figure it out. Can anyone help?
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re: Forgery or Not a Forgery
Joe,
Probably the best advice you could receive is the age old "Caveat Emptor" and this one sounds like trouble from the get-go. Too many choices to make, which could cost you a lot of money! I would suggest a certificate for this one, which they don't offer, I imagine, but worth the price, if you really, really need this stamp. A reputable dealer would also be a good idea for anything of this value, plus a deeper search for this stamp, because there are many avenues available to find just about any stamp you are looking for.
Good luck in your endeavor!
Mike
Login to Like
this post
re: Forgery or Not a Forgery
Given the pricing difference between the regular and port Fouad o/p stamps, I apply just one rule:
If it does not have a verifiable certificate, it is a forgery.
Apart from the stamp, double check the certificate.
Rrr...
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this post
Silence in the face of adversity is the father of complicity and collusion, the first cousins of conspiracy..
28 Mar 2022
03:37:35am
re: Forgery or Not a Forgery
" .... Apart from the stamp, double check the certificate. ...."
I as just about n to write that. After all, how hard could it be
for a diligent forger to create an authentic looking certificate
from a quasi- organization with an impressive name ?
Login to Like
this post
re: Forgery or Not a Forgery
Does this document assist? It shows a genuine overprint compared to a fake.
http://www.egyptstudycircle.org.uk/ESCme ...
Login to Like
this post
re: Forgery or Not a Forgery
Thanks Dave.
The key here is the low number of authentic stamps issued
""very limited quantity, namely, 2500 stamps or each of the three lower values and 1500 stamps of
the 50 piastres stamp."
"
Without o/p, the lower denomination 3 stamps (Scott #118-120) are quite plentiful, and can be purchased for just a few dollars. The higher denomination stamp (Scott 114) is a bit rarer, but not so much as to make it impossible to buy at any time.
And there are much better counterfeit stamps today than was reported in the 1962 article.
Some time ago, I was aware of one seller (in a Middle Eastern location..can't remember where, could have been UAE) who consistently offered the Port Fouad o/p on ebay, week after week. That alone would disqualify him/her as a reliable source. There are just not enough free floating copies, as I have been looking for a fairly priced, with certificate, set for over 20 years, with no success! Signed stamps, which seem to be plentiful, are also not enough to validate authenticity! There are a lot of stamps with dubious marks on the back.
rrr...
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11:02:04pm
re: Forgery or Not a Forgery
That's all very helpful. Since I really can't afford a certificated set, I think I'm just going to slip in forgeries (and designate them as such in my album) as space fillers. I don't imagine I'll ever sell my collection, but my grandkids might after I'm gone. I let them explain what's real and what's fake.
Login to Like
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11:03:16pm
re: Forgery or Not a Forgery
So one more thought. I've seen forgeries listed in Scott's for more than the actual stamp. How much do you think a Port Fouad forgery is worth? Scott only states they exist.
Login to Like
this post
re: Forgery or Not a Forgery
I have a real problem paying for modern counterfeits. Collectors may collect notorious counterfeiter's stamps which are well documented.
I myself would get a copy of the stamps without the o/p (can be done cheaply for the 3 lower valued, for sure) and add a small postit like label with a Port Fouad o/p label to put in your collection. Serves the same purpose, to id the stamp in place, and you are not supporting the counterfeit trade, you have genuine stamps, and it stands out when you look at the page.
Here is an example of what I do.
I also may make a copy of a reference scan with description of counterfeits, if I have one, and put it next to the stamps. for example: p37 of https://www.davidfeldman.com/wp-content/ ...
rrr...
Login to Like
this post
Silence in the face of adversity is the father of complicity and collusion, the first cousins of conspiracy..
29 Mar 2022
04:03:33pm
re: Forgery or Not a Forgery
" ... Here is an example of what I do ..."
Whatever floats your boat, it is your collection.
But my head is shaking in wonderment as I
cannot see what benefit that is over an open
space.
I think I'd rather have a rubber stamp company
create two small stamps; one with "Port Fouad"
to be used on the front of the stamps and a
second reading,
"Forgery" or "Home Made Forgery," in small type,
for the reverse side.
In fact, that seems to be a great idea for filling in
my missing "Guam" and Kansas - Nebraska" over
print spaces.
I could even sell extras in the auction as "Genuine forgerues."
Login to Like
this post
This is my diabetic cat OBI! I think, therefore I am - I think! Descartes, sort of!
29 Mar 2022
04:28:12pm
re: Forgery or Not a Forgery
I collect several areas that are absolutely teeming with forgeries. In many cases, for example early overprinted Russia or Poland, I refuse to pay very much since, for me, it is impossible to tell the difference. I put a neat pencil comment at the top of these pages that usually says "forgeries abound". There are people trying to sell these stamps on-line at ridiculous prices with no certification at all - CRAZY! I refuse to send a huge lot of stamps away to be certified, way too expensive and for some areas I think the certifiers are just guessing anyway. Just live with your collection and do whatever you think is right for you. That's really all you can do!!
Login to Like
this post
re: Forgery or Not a Forgery
Charles, I agree that it is a strange idea, until you apply it, not just to counterfeits, but to o/p stamps that are extremely hard to identify correctly.
These abound in areas I collect, in particular for older Ottoman empire stamps, Saudi Arabia, some of the French Middle Eastern o/p etc...etc..
Have you ever tried to id a stamp just from the description in Scott without any image?
Examples abound for me where without an image, you are more likely to make a mistake, especially when 90% of the listed stamps on the various platforms make similar mistakes or even worse id mistakes. Don't try to id your stamp from the images posted by others!
The goal of putting a stamp in the spot rather than a void is that, in the few cases where you can find a stamp, it will allows a quick verification. Referencing early stamps of Turkey for example from the late 1800s to early 1900s, try to see how difficult it some times is to separate the various tughras and o/p types as applied to early definitive stamps, their various ops, semi postal, official and newspaper derivatives. When the album has a printed image, it probably is less useful, if you can truly id the image from the reproduction printed.
The other purpose is to pass on the analysis you have done to whoever inherits of your collection.
Now if you don't intend to eventually fill the spot, or pass it on, then I agree it seems like an idea with no benefit.
Finally to return to the purpose of my answer, I would not seek out counterfeit stamps to fill any open space in my albums.
rrr...
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11:16:31pm
re: Forgery or Not a Forgery
My greatest satisfaction is to turn multiple pages of my album and seeing each one filled, no voids. Throwing a forgery in the empty slots, that will most likely otherwise stay empty forever, gives me the satisfaction of seeing a full page. Labeling it a forgery is something I do just out of scruples for future owners of the collection. I suppose I'm not a purist, but who the hell is looking at my collection other than myself?
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