Discussion - Member to Member Sales - Research Center
Discussion - Member to Member Sales - Research Center
I purposefully put “third” in quotes because at least with respect those items currently required to be expertized there is only one company that eBay finds acceptable, The Certified Collectables Group. Given that eBay is a private profit-making company, I have to wonder what eBay’s financial interests are in the Certified Collectables Group.
Michael and Charles pointed out that grading stamps is a far more difficult task than grading coins, or watches, of comic books, or trading cards given their nuances and varieties.
It was also pointed out that the Certified Collectables Group, within a week of eBay’s announcement regarding their authentication program, advertised to hire “world class stamp experts”.
The cost for all of this is unclear, but ultimately it will have to be borne by buyers.
If enacted I wonder if it will be good for the hobby, or it simply drive buyers to other outlets, i.e. Hipstamp.
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I may be fortunate or an old dinosaur but if I am paying my hard earned cash for a "Certified" stamp I want to physically see the stamp "in the flesh".
You can buy "Covid Passports" on line and other forged certificates.
Ebay allows the selling of forged stamp booklets every single day. They know forgery occurs on a daily basis and never stop it. They allow some sellers to sell stamps that are 10 a penny for hundreds of pounds.
It is quite feasible that the certification of goods they are proposing is seen as another profit stream for them.
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Given the fact that certificates are "opinions" and subject to change, along with the politicization of the process (not sure if it's currently as bad as in the 80's) I think it is just another money raising scheme for Ebay.
Would love to see a preview of what they are going to do if their "experts" give a stamp a good cert and an independent expert (or the APS) say it's a forgery, They had an unpaid group of experts pointing out bogus and altered stamps before and disbanded it.
If you don't think that their big sellers will get preferential treatment I have a bridge for sale.
Run, don't walk
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06:21:22pm
I say, let 'em have the high end market. I would only buy such stamps with certs from a recognized philatelic expertization service anyway.
More importantly, in my mind, is where will they set the threshold?
And secondly, would it apply to auctions as well as BIN? If so, what happens when that Chinese lot of stamps gets bid from $5 to $5,000 ?
Roy
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I see this just as another action by ebay to move from a mass market platform to a higher end selling platform (all for money). Companies like PSE would surely like to be involved so someone can slab common stamps to price at higher values.
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07:59:45pm
" ... If you don't think that their big sellers will get preferential treatment I have a bridge for sale. ... "
Ahaa, so you are the one who outbid me on that bridge last year.
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So you were the under-bidder ... it appears that it is far easier to buy a bridge than to sell one...but no one else on the block has one ...
Did you have any thoughts on what you were going to do with it ???
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07:14:40pm
... thoughts on what you were going to do with it ??? ..."
Yes.
Obviously it has to be disassembled brick by brik and trucked
off to Lake Havasu City, where it will be reassembled near
the Crazy Horse Campgrounds..
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Back on track. A clip from Ina Steiner's ecommercebytes shows that Ebay's "Authentication" process may not be all that it appears to be.
eBay Is Not Backing Its Own Authentications, Sellers Say
By: Ina Steiner
eBay is now in the authentication business for items like luxury handbags and watches, but some sellers say eBay is not standing behind its own authentications.
In one thread on the eBay discussion boards that started in November, a seller reported that eBay didn't stand behind its authentication of a vintage Chanel handbag. The seller shipped the handbag to the eBay authenticators, who authenticated the bag and forwarded it to the buyer.
When the buyer filed a claim complaining about the condition of the handbag and shipped it back to eBay authenticators, they sided with the buyer. "My $ is still being held and the damaged Chanel bag is on its way to me," the seller wrote. (The buyer admitted to attempting to clean the bag with an abrasive cleaner, which was what damaged it, according to the seller.)
If eBay authenticated the bag as being in the condition the seller described and then forwarded the bag to the buyer, how can they later say the bag was *not* in the same condition (and this after it was in the buyer's possession for a month)?
Several other sellers on the thread described similar issues of eBay authenticators siding with buyers on items that eBay authenticators themselves had authenticated. The point of eBay Authenticity Guarantee is so there's no "he said-she said" situation.
Today (February 4), a seller said they were in the same situation with a watch that the authentication experts had passed to the buyer as perfect, but then allowed the buyer to return a scratched watch and damaged box, and with eBay now demanding money from the seller.
Ina's newsletter is free and provides a different perspective on mail order sales.
https://www.ecommercebytes.com/C/blog/blog.pl
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Carol, you cite a couple of complicated cases.
As most of us know, the authentication document for a stamp usually includes an embossed photograph of the stamp, which allows the owner to verify that the authentication is for that particular stamp, in addition to providing some evidence of its condition when it was authenticated.
Seems like eBay's authentication service may not be thorough enough to understand that the condition of an item has as much to do with its value as its actual authenticity. But, I am not at all familiar with their processes for documentation. Maybe they DO carefully document condition, and this is what allows them to stand by the seller in the case you cite.
It's not hard to imagine novice collectors attempting to improperly clean items. Think of all the polished silver coinage we've seen in the marketplace...
And, we've all received parcels containing valuable items that were carelessly packed. But, what could stop a seller from intentionally damaging the item and the packaging for an item he/she was remorseful about buying in hopes of making a money-back claim?
Gotta be a tough world for mail order sellers to negotiate...
-Paul
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Paul,
I spent a bit of time poking around Ebay and have copied a few sections of various information available. From reading it appears they are very condition oriented to avoid “Significantly Not As Described” returns since the postage is on them.
Note that there is some conflicting information and that the program is mandatory for items listed over a certain dollar amount in the categories they cover. Also that their opinion cannot be appealed, and that counterfeit items are confiscated.
--------------------------------------------------------------------
The eBay Authenticity Guarantee helps buyers shop for your high-end or collectible items with confidence. When your eligible item is sold, experts physically inspect it before it’s shipped to the buyer or returned to you
How eBay Authenticity Guarantee works
….…………….
When you make a sale, you have to send the item to the authenticator's address provided by eBay. Once the authenticator receives the item, the inspection is processed within 2 business days for watches or trading cards and 3 business days for sneakers or handbags.
Once the authenticator confirms the item is consistent with the listing title, description, and images, they perform a physical authentication inspection. If the inspector cannot determine that the product is authentic, or if the product is not as described in the listing, the item will be returned to you and the buyer will receive their money back. If the item passes inspection, it will be shipped to the buyer with 2 day secure delivery. Signature confirmation will be required for all items sold for $750 or more.
Frequently asked questions
Why can't I see the buyer's shipping address?
Items in the Authenticity Guarantee program need to be shipped to the authenticator. Once the item has passed inspection it will be shipped to the buyer.
If my item doesn't pass authentication, can I appeal?
No, even if you have other proof of authentication, we are unable to validate any external evidence.
If your item is eligible for eBay Authenticity Guarantee, it will be automatically added to the program, free of charge. There is no opt in or opt out option.
Following is from the “watch” category
What is Final Sale?
Once an eligible item passes authentication through Authenticity Guarantee, sellers have completed their obligation to the buyer for that transaction.
Transactions that meet this criteria are exempt from Significantly Not as Described (SNAD) claims under eBay’s Money Back Guarantee policy.
Why was my item confiscated?
If counterfeit goods are discovered, they will be confiscated.
Why would my item be returned to me by the authenticator?
Your item may be returned to you if it could not be authenticated by an authenticator or if the item condition is not consistent with your item description. You will not be charged for the cost of the return and a refund will be issued to the buyer immediately.
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There is a full page ad in this week's Linn's by ASG / CCG (Certified Collectors Group ) looking to hire "world-class stamp experts".
The images shown are slabbed common material.
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I have zero faith in anything eBay is involved with.
Recently they made major changes in the collectibles categories that made no sense whatsoever, appearing to have been decided by people who had no experience in the categories and probably didn't even speak English. Upon changing the categories... millions of customers had their saved searches go bad. What company would make a decision that would negatively affect millions of searches?
Different communities I'm a part of are equally baffled... whether stamps, post cards or model cars. Now requiring information that makes no sense. For instance in the United States/covers/postal history, they are asking for attributes "color", 'modified item" (yes/no), "denomination", "California Prop 65 Warning", "Country/Region of Manufacture" (um, we are in the US stamps categories...) and other really bad attempts at applying the same listing screen for stamps or toilet paper.
eBay then tells you it's now requiring search terms "most people" search for. Who searches for white covers with 3 cent stamps that haven't been modified? As in NOBODY EVER!
I'm listing a frickin $1 cover for sale... I submit a front and back view of the cover. Up pops a warning that I should include more pictures! What do they want? A side view?
That said I wouldn't be trusting these buffoons to grade and authenticate stamps!
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Yes as a long term seller on ebay they have made many changes that make little sense, including changing the category number. While that doesn't bother buyers, if you are a seller and have a hosting platform like Auctiva, Auctiva does not make the changes across the board on your saved listings. So when you try to post something you get an error message that the category is no good. Lucky for me they have not done that for a while in stamps. In stamps, ebay asks you for the service that graded your listing. It should start off with not applicable because who would pay the money top have a stamp selling for a dollar graded? Marc at Hipstamps must be doing a happy dance. Ebay took a big chunk away when Hip was SG Marketplace, but the tide has been slowly turning. Ebay again is raising their back end fees on stamps. It once was as low as 6% when they were going after SG's business. With a store it is now 9% starting in March. Plus of course the 30 cent transaction fee for managed payments. Between the fee changes on sites and the ongoing desire for the post office to make its living on the backs of people like me who sell only things that are media mail (chuckle) or that weigh under 15 ozs rather than slam the companies so I stop getting my mail box filled with catalogs that probably cost Lands End and other places a dime at most to mail, both of these things are going to force me to pack it in AND of course Uncle wants his share of my pie too
Greg
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"With a store it is now 9% starting in March. Plus of course the 30 cent transaction fee for managed payments."
I don't mind this, in the past once you paid the eBay fees plus Paypal it was more! I haven't had any issues at all with it.
My little $1 and $2 cover business is dependent on there being no listing fees. Right now my store costs $22 a month, and I get my 250 auctions, plus up to (Gulp!) 10,000 fixed price listings. I'll never make that number! I haven't been able to even get to 1,000 because as I get close, people keep buying stuff as fast as I can list!
Everything I sell fits in a number 10 business envelope, and for the larger items I have some number 12 envelopes. Both sizes ship for 58 cents. I buy discount postage so it costs me 35 cents.
I charge a dollar shipping so on a dollar sale, that breaks down to 8 cents to list $22 divided by 250), 30 cent transaction fee, 18 cents commission and 35 cents postage. So I still made a 9 cent profit!
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Hi Tom.
A couple of questions about the new Ebay (joined in '97,, quit in'08 - Donahoe),
Like your large note re: combining orders - that was a problem I had when I tried to get my feet wet again 4 or 5 years ago..
First question - if you sell 5 items on 1 invoice what is the base transaction fee (not dependent on value). Or are store transaction fees different.
Second question - any problems with customers who will successfully bid on 7 or 8 items in one day and pay each one individually when they were won. I had 3 customers who would do that no matter how many times I explained the problem - eventually I just blocked them.
Thanks (yes - I have half a room full of boxes of covers)
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I watch this week’s installment of “Conversations with Philatelists” which focused on eBay’s requirements to have a “third” party expertize trading card, watches, even sneakers (trainers) listed for specific minimums. The speculation was that at some point in the not-too-distant future eBay will require stamps valued about a predetermined minimum to be similarly expertized.
I purposefully put “third” in quotes because at least with respect those items currently required to be expertized there is only one company that eBay finds acceptable, The Certified Collectables Group. Given that eBay is a private profit-making company, I have to wonder what eBay’s financial interests are in the Certified Collectables Group.
Michael and Charles pointed out that grading stamps is a far more difficult task than grading coins, or watches, of comic books, or trading cards given their nuances and varieties.
It was also pointed out that the Certified Collectables Group, within a week of eBay’s announcement regarding their authentication program, advertised to hire “world class stamp experts”.
The cost for all of this is unclear, but ultimately it will have to be borne by buyers.
If enacted I wonder if it will be good for the hobby, or it simply drive buyers to other outlets, i.e. Hipstamp.
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05:57:25pm
Auctions - Approvals
re: eBay's Presummed Move Towards Requiring Expertizing of Higher End Stamps
I may be fortunate or an old dinosaur but if I am paying my hard earned cash for a "Certified" stamp I want to physically see the stamp "in the flesh".
You can buy "Covid Passports" on line and other forged certificates.
Ebay allows the selling of forged stamp booklets every single day. They know forgery occurs on a daily basis and never stop it. They allow some sellers to sell stamps that are 10 a penny for hundreds of pounds.
It is quite feasible that the certification of goods they are proposing is seen as another profit stream for them.
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05:59:51pm
Auctions - Approvals
re: eBay's Presummed Move Towards Requiring Expertizing of Higher End Stamps
Given the fact that certificates are "opinions" and subject to change, along with the politicization of the process (not sure if it's currently as bad as in the 80's) I think it is just another money raising scheme for Ebay.
Would love to see a preview of what they are going to do if their "experts" give a stamp a good cert and an independent expert (or the APS) say it's a forgery, They had an unpaid group of experts pointing out bogus and altered stamps before and disbanded it.
If you don't think that their big sellers will get preferential treatment I have a bridge for sale.
Run, don't walk
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BuckaCover.com - 80,000 covers priced 60c to $1.50 - Easy browsing 500 categories
02 Feb 2022
06:21:22pm
re: eBay's Presummed Move Towards Requiring Expertizing of Higher End Stamps
I say, let 'em have the high end market. I would only buy such stamps with certs from a recognized philatelic expertization service anyway.
More importantly, in my mind, is where will they set the threshold?
And secondly, would it apply to auctions as well as BIN? If so, what happens when that Chinese lot of stamps gets bid from $5 to $5,000 ?
Roy
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re: eBay's Presummed Move Towards Requiring Expertizing of Higher End Stamps
I see this just as another action by ebay to move from a mass market platform to a higher end selling platform (all for money). Companies like PSE would surely like to be involved so someone can slab common stamps to price at higher values.
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Silence in the face of adversity is the father of complicity and collusion, the first cousins of conspiracy..
04 Feb 2022
07:59:45pm
re: eBay's Presummed Move Towards Requiring Expertizing of Higher End Stamps
" ... If you don't think that their big sellers will get preferential treatment I have a bridge for sale. ... "
Ahaa, so you are the one who outbid me on that bridge last year.
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09:37:25pm
Auctions - Approvals
re: eBay's Presummed Move Towards Requiring Expertizing of Higher End Stamps
So you were the under-bidder ... it appears that it is far easier to buy a bridge than to sell one...but no one else on the block has one ...
Did you have any thoughts on what you were going to do with it ???
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Login to Like.
Silence in the face of adversity is the father of complicity and collusion, the first cousins of conspiracy..
05 Feb 2022
07:14:40pm
re: eBay's Presummed Move Towards Requiring Expertizing of Higher End Stamps
... thoughts on what you were going to do with it ??? ..."
Yes.
Obviously it has to be disassembled brick by brik and trucked
off to Lake Havasu City, where it will be reassembled near
the Crazy Horse Campgrounds..
1 Member
likes this post.
Login to Like.
08:54:41am
Auctions - Approvals
re: eBay's Presummed Move Towards Requiring Expertizing of Higher End Stamps
Back on track. A clip from Ina Steiner's ecommercebytes shows that Ebay's "Authentication" process may not be all that it appears to be.
eBay Is Not Backing Its Own Authentications, Sellers Say
By: Ina Steiner
eBay is now in the authentication business for items like luxury handbags and watches, but some sellers say eBay is not standing behind its own authentications.
In one thread on the eBay discussion boards that started in November, a seller reported that eBay didn't stand behind its authentication of a vintage Chanel handbag. The seller shipped the handbag to the eBay authenticators, who authenticated the bag and forwarded it to the buyer.
When the buyer filed a claim complaining about the condition of the handbag and shipped it back to eBay authenticators, they sided with the buyer. "My $ is still being held and the damaged Chanel bag is on its way to me," the seller wrote. (The buyer admitted to attempting to clean the bag with an abrasive cleaner, which was what damaged it, according to the seller.)
If eBay authenticated the bag as being in the condition the seller described and then forwarded the bag to the buyer, how can they later say the bag was *not* in the same condition (and this after it was in the buyer's possession for a month)?
Several other sellers on the thread described similar issues of eBay authenticators siding with buyers on items that eBay authenticators themselves had authenticated. The point of eBay Authenticity Guarantee is so there's no "he said-she said" situation.
Today (February 4), a seller said they were in the same situation with a watch that the authentication experts had passed to the buyer as perfect, but then allowed the buyer to return a scratched watch and damaged box, and with eBay now demanding money from the seller.
Ina's newsletter is free and provides a different perspective on mail order sales.
https://www.ecommercebytes.com/C/blog/blog.pl
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09:18:30am
re: eBay's Presummed Move Towards Requiring Expertizing of Higher End Stamps
Carol, you cite a couple of complicated cases.
As most of us know, the authentication document for a stamp usually includes an embossed photograph of the stamp, which allows the owner to verify that the authentication is for that particular stamp, in addition to providing some evidence of its condition when it was authenticated.
Seems like eBay's authentication service may not be thorough enough to understand that the condition of an item has as much to do with its value as its actual authenticity. But, I am not at all familiar with their processes for documentation. Maybe they DO carefully document condition, and this is what allows them to stand by the seller in the case you cite.
It's not hard to imagine novice collectors attempting to improperly clean items. Think of all the polished silver coinage we've seen in the marketplace...
And, we've all received parcels containing valuable items that were carelessly packed. But, what could stop a seller from intentionally damaging the item and the packaging for an item he/she was remorseful about buying in hopes of making a money-back claim?
Gotta be a tough world for mail order sellers to negotiate...
-Paul
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04:09:24pm
Auctions - Approvals
re: eBay's Presummed Move Towards Requiring Expertizing of Higher End Stamps
Paul,
I spent a bit of time poking around Ebay and have copied a few sections of various information available. From reading it appears they are very condition oriented to avoid “Significantly Not As Described” returns since the postage is on them.
Note that there is some conflicting information and that the program is mandatory for items listed over a certain dollar amount in the categories they cover. Also that their opinion cannot be appealed, and that counterfeit items are confiscated.
--------------------------------------------------------------------
The eBay Authenticity Guarantee helps buyers shop for your high-end or collectible items with confidence. When your eligible item is sold, experts physically inspect it before it’s shipped to the buyer or returned to you
How eBay Authenticity Guarantee works
….…………….
When you make a sale, you have to send the item to the authenticator's address provided by eBay. Once the authenticator receives the item, the inspection is processed within 2 business days for watches or trading cards and 3 business days for sneakers or handbags.
Once the authenticator confirms the item is consistent with the listing title, description, and images, they perform a physical authentication inspection. If the inspector cannot determine that the product is authentic, or if the product is not as described in the listing, the item will be returned to you and the buyer will receive their money back. If the item passes inspection, it will be shipped to the buyer with 2 day secure delivery. Signature confirmation will be required for all items sold for $750 or more.
Frequently asked questions
Why can't I see the buyer's shipping address?
Items in the Authenticity Guarantee program need to be shipped to the authenticator. Once the item has passed inspection it will be shipped to the buyer.
If my item doesn't pass authentication, can I appeal?
No, even if you have other proof of authentication, we are unable to validate any external evidence.
If your item is eligible for eBay Authenticity Guarantee, it will be automatically added to the program, free of charge. There is no opt in or opt out option.
Following is from the “watch” category
What is Final Sale?
Once an eligible item passes authentication through Authenticity Guarantee, sellers have completed their obligation to the buyer for that transaction.
Transactions that meet this criteria are exempt from Significantly Not as Described (SNAD) claims under eBay’s Money Back Guarantee policy.
Why was my item confiscated?
If counterfeit goods are discovered, they will be confiscated.
Why would my item be returned to me by the authenticator?
Your item may be returned to you if it could not be authenticated by an authenticator or if the item condition is not consistent with your item description. You will not be charged for the cost of the return and a refund will be issued to the buyer immediately.
Login to Like
this post
re: eBay's Presummed Move Towards Requiring Expertizing of Higher End Stamps
There is a full page ad in this week's Linn's by ASG / CCG (Certified Collectors Group ) looking to hire "world-class stamp experts".
The images shown are slabbed common material.
Login to Like
this post
re: eBay's Presummed Move Towards Requiring Expertizing of Higher End Stamps
I have zero faith in anything eBay is involved with.
Recently they made major changes in the collectibles categories that made no sense whatsoever, appearing to have been decided by people who had no experience in the categories and probably didn't even speak English. Upon changing the categories... millions of customers had their saved searches go bad. What company would make a decision that would negatively affect millions of searches?
Different communities I'm a part of are equally baffled... whether stamps, post cards or model cars. Now requiring information that makes no sense. For instance in the United States/covers/postal history, they are asking for attributes "color", 'modified item" (yes/no), "denomination", "California Prop 65 Warning", "Country/Region of Manufacture" (um, we are in the US stamps categories...) and other really bad attempts at applying the same listing screen for stamps or toilet paper.
eBay then tells you it's now requiring search terms "most people" search for. Who searches for white covers with 3 cent stamps that haven't been modified? As in NOBODY EVER!
I'm listing a frickin $1 cover for sale... I submit a front and back view of the cover. Up pops a warning that I should include more pictures! What do they want? A side view?
That said I wouldn't be trusting these buffoons to grade and authenticate stamps!
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Auctions - Approvals
re: eBay's Presummed Move Towards Requiring Expertizing of Higher End Stamps
Yes as a long term seller on ebay they have made many changes that make little sense, including changing the category number. While that doesn't bother buyers, if you are a seller and have a hosting platform like Auctiva, Auctiva does not make the changes across the board on your saved listings. So when you try to post something you get an error message that the category is no good. Lucky for me they have not done that for a while in stamps. In stamps, ebay asks you for the service that graded your listing. It should start off with not applicable because who would pay the money top have a stamp selling for a dollar graded? Marc at Hipstamps must be doing a happy dance. Ebay took a big chunk away when Hip was SG Marketplace, but the tide has been slowly turning. Ebay again is raising their back end fees on stamps. It once was as low as 6% when they were going after SG's business. With a store it is now 9% starting in March. Plus of course the 30 cent transaction fee for managed payments. Between the fee changes on sites and the ongoing desire for the post office to make its living on the backs of people like me who sell only things that are media mail (chuckle) or that weigh under 15 ozs rather than slam the companies so I stop getting my mail box filled with catalogs that probably cost Lands End and other places a dime at most to mail, both of these things are going to force me to pack it in AND of course Uncle wants his share of my pie too
Greg
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re: eBay's Presummed Move Towards Requiring Expertizing of Higher End Stamps
"With a store it is now 9% starting in March. Plus of course the 30 cent transaction fee for managed payments."
I don't mind this, in the past once you paid the eBay fees plus Paypal it was more! I haven't had any issues at all with it.
My little $1 and $2 cover business is dependent on there being no listing fees. Right now my store costs $22 a month, and I get my 250 auctions, plus up to (Gulp!) 10,000 fixed price listings. I'll never make that number! I haven't been able to even get to 1,000 because as I get close, people keep buying stuff as fast as I can list!
Everything I sell fits in a number 10 business envelope, and for the larger items I have some number 12 envelopes. Both sizes ship for 58 cents. I buy discount postage so it costs me 35 cents.
I charge a dollar shipping so on a dollar sale, that breaks down to 8 cents to list $22 divided by 250), 30 cent transaction fee, 18 cents commission and 35 cents postage. So I still made a 9 cent profit!
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08:44:15pm
Auctions - Approvals
re: eBay's Presummed Move Towards Requiring Expertizing of Higher End Stamps
Hi Tom.
A couple of questions about the new Ebay (joined in '97,, quit in'08 - Donahoe),
Like your large note re: combining orders - that was a problem I had when I tried to get my feet wet again 4 or 5 years ago..
First question - if you sell 5 items on 1 invoice what is the base transaction fee (not dependent on value). Or are store transaction fees different.
Second question - any problems with customers who will successfully bid on 7 or 8 items in one day and pay each one individually when they were won. I had 3 customers who would do that no matter how many times I explained the problem - eventually I just blocked them.
Thanks (yes - I have half a room full of boxes of covers)
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