Discussion - Member to Member Sales - Research Center
Discussion - Member to Member Sales - Research Center
Needless to say an awful lot of people, and more so dealers who hold stocks, often used for postage, are contemplating legal action.
Commemoratives apparently will not be affected. Old Machins will be able to be swapped out but not at post offices, only at special centres.
Here is a link to the BBC article.
https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-60213179
And a link to related article on Norvic's blog.
https://blog.norphil.co.uk/
Will be interesting to know the legal standing on wiping out a lot of value in many peoples surplus or unused stamps.
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At first I thought it was a joke, because of the date mentioned in the BBC article. After reading a bit more about this, I am not so sure anymore.
Jan-Simon
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Another sad day for GB collectors. There have been many.
I am glad I got out and sold my lot years back. Best Stamp Collecting decision I ever made.
I feel sympathy for the diehard GB collectors that are carrying on.
If I ever feel the need to put a barcode in my collection, I will start collecting supermarket packets....it's cheaper ! 
Londonbus1
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Ah Well we have 11 months to get rid of the little blighters.
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I just read this on another site.
New Barcode Definitive Stamps for 2022
This is what Royal Mail have to say about these new stamps:
“Reinventing stamps for the future
Over the coming months, you will notice that more of our stamps will start to feature barcodes.
Following a successful national trial we will now be adding unique barcodes to all our regular ‘everyday’ Definitive and Christmas stamps. Each barcoded stamp will have a digital twin and the two will be connected by the Royal Mail App. The unique barcodes will facilitate operational efficiencies, enable the introduction of added security features and pave the way for innovative services for our customers.
Definitive stamps are the stamps that will be very familiar to most people. They feature the profile of HM The Queen. The barcodes match the stamp colour and sit alongside the main body of the stamp, separated by a simulated perforation line. The new barcode is an integral part of the stamp and must remain intact for the stamp to be valid.”
“Non-barcoded stamps will be phased out but will remain usable until 31 January 2023. Customers are encouraged to use their non-barcoded stamps before this date. Alternatively, non-barcoded stamps can be exchanged for the new barcoded version through Royal Mail’s ‘Swap Out’ scheme.
The ‘Swap Out’ scheme will open on 31 March 2022. Forms will be available via a variety of channels, including local Customer Service Points; the Royal Mail website and via our Customer Experience team. Customers will be able to use a Freepost address. Further details will be announced shortly.”
You can buy the new barcoded stamps on our online Shop”.
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Just a thought but who sets the length of legality of use, the Post Office or the Government. There must be some dealers who have stocks of NVI's running into thousands, will they be exchanged at current value or purchased value, the latter being very hard to prove.
Seems like the Royal Mail is digging itself into yet another debacle.
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So if I attach a message / video to the barcode for the recipient to view, then I put the stamp in a charity box and it ends up in someone's collection, can the collector now view the messages/videos that were attached to the stamp?
Also wondering if we out of country collectors can swap away our old mint GB stamps (commems and definatives) for these new stamps. that would be great !!!
Inquiring minds need to know 
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"Seems like the Royal Mail is digging itself into yet another debacle."
We will just have to wait and see.
My money is on that they will never admit to it being a debacle.
Their history shows that as far as technology is concerned their track record is "criminal"!
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"There must be some dealers who have stocks of NVI's running into thousands"
The barcodes will only be on Machins and Christmas stamps not the commemmoratives so the 1st Class and 2nd Class from Presentation Packs will still be valid as will the higher values from the packs. Most of the dealers will have stocks from P Packs and collections rather than the Machins.
It should also stop the massive amount of forgeries for sale on ebay.
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I stopped my Machin interest at the security (die cuts and codes) era issues.
If they remove the value from NVIs, this will make the older ones less valuable. They will be similar to used stamps.
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08:35:40pm
" ... I feel sympathy for the diehard GB collectors
that are carrying on. ..."
Sympathy accepted.
I am hoping this will open a new area of UK collecting.
If I read the information provided a ferw months ago,
each stamp will have a unique and traceable "Bar code"
that once used will become invalid.
Thus the need for a date-time cancellation will end.
That is, at least, until the forgery experts decipher
the codes and begin to forge them as well.
I imagine the little old lady volunteers working late
evenings in church basements cutting envelopes and
sorting "Almost Mint" NVIs will have to find another
source of income.
Actually this could be interesting.
Cheers,
Charlie
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Has anyone found an iPhone app that will read the Data Matrix code?
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Not sure if this will do the trick. I do not have an Apple device.
https://apps.apple.com/us/app/datamatrix ...
This is a good article.
https://blog.norphil.co.uk/search?q=data ...
The above article states "Anybody with a smartphone can use a QR-reader app to decode the information in the datamatrix (DM) code "
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It is pretty easy to read the data matrix / qr code with a standard barcode/ qr reader that comes standard on most smartphones these days. One only needs to make sense of it.
I took this picture from the Norphil website you linked to
And this is what it translated to in human language:
JGB S11231017031159975990006623112001 0CC21532C9BBE27301
It is probably a combination of various IDs with the data for each of them. The real challenge is to find out what is actually recorded, is there an ID for the value, printing date, or is it just a unique identifier for each stamp?
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If you go to the Norphil link and look at the post from 23rd. March there is more explanation.
Forgeries now abound, but all have the same code. Interesting that if picked up by the Royal Mail code reader, would it pass if the original and genuine stamp is sitting unused elsewhere, in a collector or dealers stock.
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Thanks to all for the quick response. I will find out more when I get the new barcoded stamps from Royal Mail. With the Queen passing I'm thinking the ones just released will be it. I will be drawing a line under it and not getting into Charley the 3rd!
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04:11:56pm
" ... I will be drawing a line under it and not getting into Charley the 3rd! ..."
That was exactly my feeling in 1967 when the seemingly plain Jane Machins replaced the multi-watermarked Wilding issues. But then by 1999 things changed dramaticly.
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Finally got around to doing the pages for the datamatrix/barcoded stamps issued this year, hopefully no additional values in December.
Thanks as always to Clive for his extremely useful program.
Now my problem is how do I distinguish the year codes without a code reader or mobile 'phone, maybe I can use a camera with an usb connection, have to give that some thought.
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Problem of reader solved, Microsoft have a reader in their store, free, works through the laptop camera. Just tried it out with a barcoded Christmas stamp that arrived today.
The code reads:-
JGB S19951017031041998470025515072202 88E65D4E9DC5D01201
The underlined 255 is the stamp face value, £2.55, possibly the 150722 is the print date.
Now as this is the only way to know the print year, unlike the old year coded into the background printing, I guess it means an end to the collecting by year code we have done previously. (Machin nuts that is!!)
How many duplicate, forged, stamps can a collector amass given the proliferation of forged stamps flooding the market.
Edit. just checked, the ordinary Machins do have a date code in the background so it is the commemoratives that will not. Seems logical as it would otherwise spoil the image.
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Your stamp has the 0255 in the same place and would be the value $2.55 followed by the date code 10/12/21 (I believe). (10th. Dec 21)
If you tilt the stamp and check the date code printed in front of the forehead it should read M21L in place of the normal MAIL.
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The M21L code and the M22L code is the year when the stamp was printed. Not when it was used and went through the postal system.
You will still be able to easily identify the year on these stamps without having to use a barcode reader.
I have not had many of these stamps but it also appears that the source codes are still in the top right hand corner. Whether they are from sheets or the various sizes of booklets.
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Ok so the bar code date interpretation should have been 10th Jan 22, I moved a figure the wrong way.
It is only the commemoratives that will not, as previously, have a date code incorporated in the design. Yes Ian they still have the source codes.
Now we all await the first King Charles definitives.
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This article from Norvic Philatelics Blog gives a better idea of the code.
https://blog.norphil.co.uk/search?q=code ...
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Not sure if the postmark is affecting the scanning but the reader is not picking up the code on this image. Stamp is a £2.55 code M22L, MAIL.
Could someone try on another piece of equipment please.
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It could be a forgery.
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Ian, it has two phosphor bands and the matrix appears raised when angled towards the light, I'm thinking the postmark is obliterating part of the code and the reader is unable to make sense unless it sees the whole code.
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Are the phosphor bands real? Some of the forgeries look as if they have phosphor bands when held up to the light but there is no glow when put under a UV lamp.
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Yep, they are real, checked with my lamp, but even the forgeries barcode will still translate, it is just that all the sheets will have the same code in the same position, stamp wise.
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You will probably find that the letter/package has gone through the reading equipment before the postmark is added at the mail centre.
Just for information here are the latest forgeries I have in my possesion:-
The second class are a very very good copy. Hold it up to the light and the phosphor band looks real but no glow when put under a UV lamp.
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Thank you very much Doug, can I ask what device you used as I've tried a couple of online readers without success.
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Thank you Doug. Just not sure why none of the scanners I tried worked, but at least now I have the code.
Thanks again.
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"Finally got around to doing the pages for the datamatrix/barcoded stamps issued this year, hopefully no additional values in December."
sheepshanks had kindly made his pages available for anyone to use, they are now available for download from:
https://www.thestampweb.com/albums/free-downloads
Clive
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Today has Royal Mail announcing new Machins with barcodes, however in the release notes is the fact that old Machins without barcodes will become invalid for postage purposes and envelopes bearing them will be treated as having no postage paid.
Needless to say an awful lot of people, and more so dealers who hold stocks, often used for postage, are contemplating legal action.
Commemoratives apparently will not be affected. Old Machins will be able to be swapped out but not at post offices, only at special centres.
Here is a link to the BBC article.
https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-60213179
And a link to related article on Norvic's blog.
https://blog.norphil.co.uk/
Will be interesting to know the legal standing on wiping out a lot of value in many peoples surplus or unused stamps.
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re: Machins with barcodes
At first I thought it was a joke, because of the date mentioned in the BBC article. After reading a bit more about this, I am not so sure anymore.
Jan-Simon
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re: Machins with barcodes
Another sad day for GB collectors. There have been many.
I am glad I got out and sold my lot years back. Best Stamp Collecting decision I ever made.
I feel sympathy for the diehard GB collectors that are carrying on.
If I ever feel the need to put a barcode in my collection, I will start collecting supermarket packets....it's cheaper !
Londonbus1
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12:28:48pm
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re: Machins with barcodes
Ah Well we have 11 months to get rid of the little blighters.
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re: Machins with barcodes
I just read this on another site.
New Barcode Definitive Stamps for 2022
This is what Royal Mail have to say about these new stamps:
“Reinventing stamps for the future
Over the coming months, you will notice that more of our stamps will start to feature barcodes.
Following a successful national trial we will now be adding unique barcodes to all our regular ‘everyday’ Definitive and Christmas stamps. Each barcoded stamp will have a digital twin and the two will be connected by the Royal Mail App. The unique barcodes will facilitate operational efficiencies, enable the introduction of added security features and pave the way for innovative services for our customers.
Definitive stamps are the stamps that will be very familiar to most people. They feature the profile of HM The Queen. The barcodes match the stamp colour and sit alongside the main body of the stamp, separated by a simulated perforation line. The new barcode is an integral part of the stamp and must remain intact for the stamp to be valid.”
“Non-barcoded stamps will be phased out but will remain usable until 31 January 2023. Customers are encouraged to use their non-barcoded stamps before this date. Alternatively, non-barcoded stamps can be exchanged for the new barcoded version through Royal Mail’s ‘Swap Out’ scheme.
The ‘Swap Out’ scheme will open on 31 March 2022. Forms will be available via a variety of channels, including local Customer Service Points; the Royal Mail website and via our Customer Experience team. Customers will be able to use a Freepost address. Further details will be announced shortly.”
You can buy the new barcoded stamps on our online Shop”.
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re: Machins with barcodes
Just a thought but who sets the length of legality of use, the Post Office or the Government. There must be some dealers who have stocks of NVI's running into thousands, will they be exchanged at current value or purchased value, the latter being very hard to prove.
Seems like the Royal Mail is digging itself into yet another debacle.
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06:19:16pm
Auctions - Approvals
re: Machins with barcodes
So if I attach a message / video to the barcode for the recipient to view, then I put the stamp in a charity box and it ends up in someone's collection, can the collector now view the messages/videos that were attached to the stamp?
Also wondering if we out of country collectors can swap away our old mint GB stamps (commems and definatives) for these new stamps. that would be great !!!
Inquiring minds need to know
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08:10:42pm
Auctions - Approvals
re: Machins with barcodes
"Seems like the Royal Mail is digging itself into yet another debacle."
We will just have to wait and see.
My money is on that they will never admit to it being a debacle.
Their history shows that as far as technology is concerned their track record is "criminal"!
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08:24:15pm
Auctions - Approvals
re: Machins with barcodes
"There must be some dealers who have stocks of NVI's running into thousands"
The barcodes will only be on Machins and Christmas stamps not the commemmoratives so the 1st Class and 2nd Class from Presentation Packs will still be valid as will the higher values from the packs. Most of the dealers will have stocks from P Packs and collections rather than the Machins.
It should also stop the massive amount of forgeries for sale on ebay.
Login to Like
this post
re: Machins with barcodes
I stopped my Machin interest at the security (die cuts and codes) era issues.
If they remove the value from NVIs, this will make the older ones less valuable. They will be similar to used stamps.
Login to Like
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Silence in the face of adversity is the father of complicity and collusion, the first cousins of conspiracy..
04 Feb 2022
08:35:40pm
re: Machins with barcodes
" ... I feel sympathy for the diehard GB collectors
that are carrying on. ..."
Sympathy accepted.
I am hoping this will open a new area of UK collecting.
If I read the information provided a ferw months ago,
each stamp will have a unique and traceable "Bar code"
that once used will become invalid.
Thus the need for a date-time cancellation will end.
That is, at least, until the forgery experts decipher
the codes and begin to forge them as well.
I imagine the little old lady volunteers working late
evenings in church basements cutting envelopes and
sorting "Almost Mint" NVIs will have to find another
source of income.
Actually this could be interesting.
Cheers,
Charlie
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10:19:23am
re: Machins with barcodes
Has anyone found an iPhone app that will read the Data Matrix code?
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re: Machins with barcodes
Not sure if this will do the trick. I do not have an Apple device.
https://apps.apple.com/us/app/datamatrix ...
This is a good article.
https://blog.norphil.co.uk/search?q=data ...
The above article states "Anybody with a smartphone can use a QR-reader app to decode the information in the datamatrix (DM) code "
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re: Machins with barcodes
It is pretty easy to read the data matrix / qr code with a standard barcode/ qr reader that comes standard on most smartphones these days. One only needs to make sense of it.
I took this picture from the Norphil website you linked to
And this is what it translated to in human language:
JGB S11231017031159975990006623112001 0CC21532C9BBE27301
It is probably a combination of various IDs with the data for each of them. The real challenge is to find out what is actually recorded, is there an ID for the value, printing date, or is it just a unique identifier for each stamp?
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re: Machins with barcodes
If you go to the Norphil link and look at the post from 23rd. March there is more explanation.
Forgeries now abound, but all have the same code. Interesting that if picked up by the Royal Mail code reader, would it pass if the original and genuine stamp is sitting unused elsewhere, in a collector or dealers stock.
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02:45:28pm
re: Machins with barcodes
Thanks to all for the quick response. I will find out more when I get the new barcoded stamps from Royal Mail. With the Queen passing I'm thinking the ones just released will be it. I will be drawing a line under it and not getting into Charley the 3rd!
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Silence in the face of adversity is the father of complicity and collusion, the first cousins of conspiracy..
15 Oct 2022
04:11:56pm
re: Machins with barcodes
" ... I will be drawing a line under it and not getting into Charley the 3rd! ..."
That was exactly my feeling in 1967 when the seemingly plain Jane Machins replaced the multi-watermarked Wilding issues. But then by 1999 things changed dramaticly.
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re: Machins with barcodes
Finally got around to doing the pages for the datamatrix/barcoded stamps issued this year, hopefully no additional values in December.
Thanks as always to Clive for his extremely useful program.
Now my problem is how do I distinguish the year codes without a code reader or mobile 'phone, maybe I can use a camera with an usb connection, have to give that some thought.
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re: Machins with barcodes
Problem of reader solved, Microsoft have a reader in their store, free, works through the laptop camera. Just tried it out with a barcoded Christmas stamp that arrived today.
The code reads:-
JGB S19951017031041998470025515072202 88E65D4E9DC5D01201
The underlined 255 is the stamp face value, £2.55, possibly the 150722 is the print date.
Now as this is the only way to know the print year, unlike the old year coded into the background printing, I guess it means an end to the collecting by year code we have done previously. (Machin nuts that is!!)
How many duplicate, forged, stamps can a collector amass given the proliferation of forged stamps flooding the market.
Edit. just checked, the ordinary Machins do have a date code in the background so it is the commemoratives that will not. Seems logical as it would otherwise spoil the image.
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re: Machins with barcodes
Your stamp has the 0255 in the same place and would be the value $2.55 followed by the date code 10/12/21 (I believe). (10th. Dec 21)
If you tilt the stamp and check the date code printed in front of the forehead it should read M21L in place of the normal MAIL.
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07:53:38am
Auctions - Approvals
re: Machins with barcodes
The M21L code and the M22L code is the year when the stamp was printed. Not when it was used and went through the postal system.
You will still be able to easily identify the year on these stamps without having to use a barcode reader.
I have not had many of these stamps but it also appears that the source codes are still in the top right hand corner. Whether they are from sheets or the various sizes of booklets.
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re: Machins with barcodes
Ok so the bar code date interpretation should have been 10th Jan 22, I moved a figure the wrong way.
It is only the commemoratives that will not, as previously, have a date code incorporated in the design. Yes Ian they still have the source codes.
Now we all await the first King Charles definitives.
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re: Machins with barcodes
This article from Norvic Philatelics Blog gives a better idea of the code.
https://blog.norphil.co.uk/search?q=code ...
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re: Machins with barcodes
Not sure if the postmark is affecting the scanning but the reader is not picking up the code on this image. Stamp is a £2.55 code M22L, MAIL.
Could someone try on another piece of equipment please.
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06:57:09pm
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re: Machins with barcodes
It could be a forgery.
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re: Machins with barcodes
Ian, it has two phosphor bands and the matrix appears raised when angled towards the light, I'm thinking the postmark is obliterating part of the code and the reader is unable to make sense unless it sees the whole code.
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05:23:52am
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re: Machins with barcodes
Are the phosphor bands real? Some of the forgeries look as if they have phosphor bands when held up to the light but there is no glow when put under a UV lamp.
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re: Machins with barcodes
Yep, they are real, checked with my lamp, but even the forgeries barcode will still translate, it is just that all the sheets will have the same code in the same position, stamp wise.
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10:56:27am
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re: Machins with barcodes
You will probably find that the letter/package has gone through the reading equipment before the postmark is added at the mail centre.
Just for information here are the latest forgeries I have in my possesion:-
The second class are a very very good copy. Hold it up to the light and the phosphor band looks real but no glow when put under a UV lamp.
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re: Machins with barcodes
Thank you very much Doug, can I ask what device you used as I've tried a couple of online readers without success.
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re: Machins with barcodes
Thank you Doug. Just not sure why none of the scanners I tried worked, but at least now I have the code.
Thanks again.
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re: Machins with barcodes
"Finally got around to doing the pages for the datamatrix/barcoded stamps issued this year, hopefully no additional values in December."
sheepshanks had kindly made his pages available for anyone to use, they are now available for download from:
https://www.thestampweb.com/albums/free-downloads
Clive
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