Discussion - Member to Member Sales - Research Center
Discussion - Member to Member Sales - Research Center
02:53:41pm
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Joe, you are not alone!
At least with buy it now you see the price the seller wants and you can buy it straight away or say "I ain't paying that (expletive deleted) price" and move on.
At auction the starting price would be the same as the BIN price so instead of buying at once you would have to wait several days to see if you won it or lost it or if you had to pay more.
Auctions also leaves you open to the "crazy, idiotic, "I'll pay whatever it takes to purchase the item" and the various "Sniping" systems available. There's nothing worse than thinking your going to win an item with several seconds to go and then the sniping bids come in and the item sells for double the price you thought was fair!! (expletive deleted)
"BUY IT NOW RULES OK!"
One of the drawbacks sellers have is the cost of postage. Every Postal "Service?" in the world charges exhorbitant prices as soon as you are sending mail across national borders.
If a seller misjudges the size and weight of a package to a buyer they can lose out by several dollars. Of course if they misjudge the size and weight of the package and overcharge they get it in the neck from the buyer.
Ebay fees also take into account what the shipping costs are as well as the purchase price.
Don't get me started on Ebays (expletive deleted) in house shipping system costs!!!
Lets be honest. One has no right to purchase an item that is up for sale or auction at the price you hope to pay.
Remember as one gets older our brain tends to lag behind reality especially over the abstract element of value. I still remember when gas was £0.25 a gallon( its around £7.50 now). Back in the 70's and 80'sit was normal practice that prices doubled every 8 years.
Your 2015 catalogue is now 7 years out of date!! Prices have changed in those seven years especially for these more difficult to find items.
I am currently bidding on an item on ebay. I have bid higher than any item I have ever bought on ebay to date. Yes I am prepared to go higher but no further than £XXX. If some one bids £XXXX then they can have it.
My life does not depend on winning or losing this item therefore "who cares?", there are more important things in life than winning or losing a piece of coloured paper. (like good company, a nice smooth vodka and a good cigar!!)Yes I have wasted time on wine women and Amateur Dramatics.
"What's fur ye 'ill no go past ye!"
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I was, also, working with a 2014 catalog set and find that many items were priced much beyond what I was prepared to spend based on the catalog. However, once I acquired a 2022 catalog set and started using its values in my purchasing decisions I found that I was more successful in my bids! 
Yes, there are many items where catalog values are definitely inflated, however, the best guides available still remain current catalogs despite their faults and inconsistencies. But it still remains exciting to find items where the condition is accurate and values are at a discount from catalog. Fortunately items do appear from time to time where the seller simply needs to get the best available price from a willing buyer at a given time which is where our bargains originate.
We do get some relative bargains through Stamporama which often influence more active purchases than most of us make through retail sales which definitely adds to the interest of our virtual stamp club! Plus the insights gained from others have been very motivating in learning more about the hobby as a whole in all of its idiosyncrasies.
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Are these lots are selling? If not, you can contact them to make an offer. There are people willing to pay more and may not even know the catalog value (doubts about validity of some values anyway).
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I am absolutely sick of the snipes. I’ve never won anything on auction even when I’m sitting with fingers on the keyboard with 3 seconds left. Even when I have a very high pre-bid (e.g. 50-70%)!
But I’ve been very successful buying on eBay with “make an offer”.
I only buy full sets or critical singles where I rarely see them or if there are very few available and with no bids. Many are priced at/above CV and I usually tell them “I can only pay a maximum 30-40% CV and find I can get anything if I’m patient. Let me know if you’d like to have the money in your hands now” then I put in a 30% offer. A couple accepted, a couple bumped back at 40% (both of which I accept) and a couple FUs.
When it is a $50-150 sale it's amazing how willing people are to bargain.
Cheers Dave
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I do not think there is anything new in this field. Buy-it-now prices have always been crazy high. Buying a single stamp is always going to do more damage than buying a group of stamps.
Personally I have used the buy-it-now on Ebay only a handful of times, to get a couple of stamps I needed that I didn't seem to find as part of a bulk purchase.
Buying a collection auction style is the way to go. You can also make offers on some lots although, the offers , I would make are often less than 50% of the BIN price, so I do not bother. It might only aggravate a seller.
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There's a very easy way to get rid snipe bidders but again, ebay and PayPal
are not going to bite the hand that feeds them.
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"It might only aggravate a seller. "
YUP! It sure does!
Why?
To me it is an insult.
I list my price which I think is fair. If you don't want to buy at that price that is your perogative. No skin off my nose if you walk away. But don't ask for a discount. You wouldn't do it at the supermarket so why do it to me or others.
There's one guy I know who accepts the cheap offers, takes the money, doesn't send the items and refunds the money when it has "failed to be delivered". He never gets bothered by that buyer ever again. He does the same with those buyers who want "extras".
Of course there are sellers who put up an inflated price to catch the unwary AND so they can give a reduction when some one "makes an offer"!!
It takes all sorts to make the world go round.
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02:38:38pm
If the person posts that he accepts offers I will quite often make an offer. I make my best offer and if it is not accepted I move on. I deal quite often with Dan-the-stamp-man on E-Bay and usually only with his auction items. I'm usually successful about half the time and I'm happy with that. I do occasionally check his offers on his web site where he does "accept" offers. Once he had a huge lot of Russian stamps displayed page by page in the same Russian album I use. So it was easy to see what percentage I needed, about half. So I explained that in an email and offered him about 60%. It was still a very large amount, he accepted, and I essentially doubled my Russian collection. I also sold what remained to my regular local dealer for a couple hundred dollars and ended up very pleased. I just find that prices are really going up for certain countries on E-Bay, and combine that with the shipping costs, it's very difficult to buy there. But sometimes the price is fair so I wade in. The fun is in the search!!
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I offer BIN on all of my fixed price listings.
Why? For no other reason than to attract new business. Some offers are ridiculous and I reject them, but offers between 10-20% off listing price are usually successful, and I get new customers. I haven't gone broke yet!
Regarding bidders losing Ebay lots to snipers, it's not the snipers fault, it's yours. If you've entered the highest bid you want to lodge, yet lose, your highest bid simply wasn't enough. Snipe software usually lodges bids between 2-5 seconds from the end of the auction. This no different to you entering bids for a live auction, and someone in the room raising their paddle at the auctioneers final call.
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08:06:00am
Dave, you're right about snipers. I don't snipe, not because I don't believe in it, I just don't want to! When I lose to a sniped bid, I get a bit ticked, but it's my fault if my bid is not high enough. I assume the person who snipes still has to put in a maximum bid, if not picture two snipers on the same item whose bids are both "whatever"! That would be fun to watch! It's a bit different at a "paddle" auction because most of those are not timed. I still don't like being sniped but, you're right, it is my fault!
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I find the BIN format much more convenient than auctions. Its an advertised, up-front price (with or without any offers/discounts), it can be "added to the cart" to make up a "shopping list" with other prospective purchases. Just last night I went on a little eBay spree, and found two sellers offering essentially the same lot at similar pricing. I added both to my cart, then later compared the two and made my decision. If they were auctions, I'd have had to track (and/or) bid on both, keeping tabs on auction closing times (which always seem to be directly correlated to some inconvenience in my schedule.... the more desirable the lot, the more likely it ends in the middle of my working day, and that some unforeseen catastrophe will cause me to be unavailable at the final bell).
I also have a tendency to forget exactly when an auction ends. As I am not a slave to my phone, I often don't actually see the "closing soon" reminders until well after the auction's already ended!
The "add to cart" BIN method also gives me a running total of what I'm potentially spending, so I can prioritize purchases. If I suddenly realize my "shopping list" is getting over my self-imposed budget, I can cull a few lots or save them for later.
I'm understand that I'm paying a premium for this convenience, but then again, I am a small-time collector, and I'm mostly still acquiring lots consisting of multiple inexpensive stamps. Paying an extra 10-20% for a $5-10 lot doesn't hurt as bad as paying the same premium for a $50 or $100 single stamp. (I'm not sure what I'll do if I eventually get to the point when all I'm missing is the really expensive stuff....)
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11:52:21am
I agree, BIN can be great and I've used it many times on E-Bay. But I'm noticing that for some areas, Russia especially, the BIN prices for the higher end material is usually quite high. I also agree that for the more expensive material you usually have to pay more. But sometimes the prices seem extreme, you really have to want an object to justify some of the prices. So I do what any sane person would do, move on ... after complaining a little bit!! Please don't take away my right to a little complaining, that's half the fun!
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Harvey,
You may want to buy (or if your libary has them copy) the Scott 2022 pages just for Russia to check pricing. I use 2011 Scott but for my main areas of interest I go to the library and copy the more recent catalogue pages. Some of my stamps' SCV have gone up almsot 100%. I don't know about Russia, but what may seem unreasonable pricing at 2015 Scott catalogue may look more reasonable using 2022 pricing.
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12:34:27pm
Good idea, I'll have to pick up the latest Scott's containing Russia. With any luck it will contain Poland as well.
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01:33:57pm
" ... I am absolutely sick of the snipes. I’ve never won
anything on auction even when I’m sitting with fingers on
the keyboard with 3 seconds left. ...."
In what is fast becoming the distant past, I enjoyed setting
up my clock and multiple open screens with ready to post E-bay
bids.
It was an exciting evening when I managed to outbid and possibly
outwit other bidders. But between what are obviously computer
generated last millisecond bids and the wear and tear on my fingers
and nerves over about twenty years, manual sniping has become
frustrating. Add to that the changes in E-bay's policies and
procedures and I no longer worry stamps on E-bay.
Today, fair and honest auction systems allow the bidding to be
extended three minutes (One popular Auction house.) or much longer
(Here at SoR)
So automated computerized systems won out, but there were many exciting
evenings or post midnight closing times in those days and I loved
the thrill of winning over generally equally competent collectors.
Even with the three or five minute extension rule there is still room
for a significant amount of exhilaration.
Usually I have two or three favorites picked out an up to a half dozen
back-up lots, on standby, just waiting for my increased bid so that if,
near the end of bidding, someone who lost out on some expensive lot after
having been outbid beyond his limits, and who then quickly looks for an
alternative home for his, or her, money, chooses a lot I had my heart
set on taking home, I can respond. At three minutes, I have just about
time to realize what happened and can shift my attention over to one of
my acceptable second choices that I have all set up an ready to enter
what might be a winning bid.
I dislike it when, in an auction with a firm closing time, I may have
bid on lot "A" and an or bid on lots "B" and "C," I get out bid on all my
choices. I get nothing.
Usually I have a few hundred dollars to spend and would be quite happy to
move my money over to something else. But a closed bid ends the night.
(Or evening in Australia.)
I guess that is slow motion "sniping" more or less, with the added
opportunity for someone I out bid to answer and counter my bidding.
Sometimes those three minute extensions can run on and on for two or
more hours until everyone with a few dollars to spend has found
something they want, or they have dozed off from sheer exhaustion.
" And that's the news from Lake Wobegon, where all the women are strong, all the men are good looking, and all the children are above average. "
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"Sniping" is the only way I'll bid on online auctions.
I have a very simple, straightforward reason for that. I do not want my competition (other bidders) to base their bids on what I'm willing to bid. So, I deprive my competition of that information by bidding too late for them to react to it. That's my competitive advantage: other bidders do not have access to my valuation of the item.
Bidding wars are very common on desirable items. Bidding wars occur when bidders base their bids on what their competition has bid. That's an irrational way to discover value.
Many times, my sniped bid is too low to win the item. My competition has valued the item higher than I did, and that's fine with me. There are many more fish in the sea. Maybe I saw a condition issue affecting value that my competition did not. Sellers rejoice, because my losing bid raises the selling price of the item, regardless of who wins.
Just moments ago, I sniped a bid of $64.99 on a stamp that was at $58. I didn't win that auction, the item sold for $65.99. Why that bid? Because, I had the identical item, in the identical condition, in my shopping cart priced at...you guessed it, $64.99, BIN.
Hint: if you need some help establishing marketplace value, click on the checkbox for "Completed Listings", and see what other similar items have sold for recently.
-Paul
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Here's an example of a bidder bidding against his competition, and not against the value of the item:
He bids $8, sees he has been outbid by a proxy bid, and 3 seconds later, bids $10, using the convenient button on eBay's bidding page. So predictable. Stay tuned, this item ends in 18 minutes, and I'm going to snipe it.
-Paul
Took a closer look at that item, and it has a 3mm tear from the left margin. I wouldn't give 10 cents for it with that kind of defect.
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Paul just saved me a ton of typing! He's absolutely right. There is no sense showing your cards early! In fact it's known that auctions with a bid attract other bids, more than auctions without any!
As far as outrageous pricing on Fixed Price Items, eBay gives anyone 200-250 free auctions or fixed price items a month! And when you buy the minimum store, you can list up to 10,000 fixed price items!
So people can list items for huge numbers... I call it "Trolling for Suckers". Figure that selling one item once in a while at a huge price beats shipping 10-20 items at nominal value!
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With sniping I also get an item at 50% or less of my bid every now and then. There is no way I will get this type of savings if I put my maximum bid in 5 days earlier.
But the most practical reason I have for using snipes is it saves me all anxiety and frustration with having to be at my computer at a certain time of the day or night to place a bid and only get outbid by someone else. Do I really need that?
After I set up my snipes I like to completely forget about them. If the item shows up under my purchases on Ebay, I pay for it. If not, it usually gets removed from the list of snipes automatically, so I do not have to be reminded of what I've lost and the margin between the winning bid and mine.
I really like it this way.
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On ebay, due to the bidding habits of some, it is best to not reveal what you are willing to pay as they bid according to other bidders. If ebay extended the auction by several minutes after the last bid, as in public auctions, then it would change the dynamics.
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In live auctions, I will usually NOT be the first bidder on an item, in order to gauge the gallery's interest in it. Like, if nobody wants to bid, I probably won't have much competition, and the lower the opening bid goes, as the auctioneer seeks to find it. Many times, I'll get the item at the opening bid, usually $1. Another strategy I employ is to wait to bid until the auctioneer says, "Going once, going twice...". That's when I like to start bidding. Often, the appearance of a new bidder at the very end is demoralizing to the the current high bidder, and they immediately quit. But, you can't have any distractions when using this strategy!
Many, many years ago, The Stamp Center had a monthly timed silent auction on a Saturday. The lots were all displayed on bulletin boards, and to bid, you wrote your bidder number and bid on the card next to the lot. The auctions always ended at 12:00 noon, sharp, and they used a bedroom alarm clock to stop the auction - the old kind with flip numerals. When the alarm sounded, the auction monitor would shout, "STOP! Pencils down!" I would always find the one lot I wanted The Most, and then I would watch that clock until it flipped to 11:59. At that point, I would start counting, "One thousand one, one thousand two..." When I got to "one thousand fifty-five", I would sidle up to that desired lot, and write the last bid in just as the alarm sounded. Sniping, old style! I got some nice US banknotes that way!
-Paul
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We don't bid online: endless drama & greed.
Solution: Private Silent Auction (invitation only). Physical attendance is required.
Electronics devices are confiscated entering the building. Bidders are check in & entered his/her assigned individual room.
.
All bids are placed & locked into the system (secretly).
All bids are revealed when the alarm is sounded.
(NOTE) Nobody know what time the alarm will sound.
Rogelio Lee
French Polynesia Stamp Club
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Those are some very severe requirements for auctions!
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07:17:37pm
" ... Those are some very severe requirements for auctions! ..."
I suspect any seller who enters his, or her, stamps in such a
"restrictive" environment is missing the point of auctioning
the stamps.
If I wanted to get the best price for some stamps or albums,
I'd want the potential buyers to bid as much as possible,
not be prevented from bidding, not be deterred from doing so
by some anal bylaws.
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Here's a good example of Snipe bidding I saved... note ALL the bids were placed within the last minute!
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Larry :-
I know how you feel!
What is it with Italian stamps?
Buying Italian collections is a nightmare. You never know how much they will go for.
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Have you ever noticed individual bidders at live auctions being very stealthy about indicating their bids to the auctioneer? It can be an almost imperceptible head nod, a finger wag, or even an eye blink if there's a close relationship between the bidder and auctioneer. Otherwise, they're perfectly stone-faced.
Why do they do that?
Experienced auction buyers do everything they can to hide their intentions from the competition, just like poker players.
Johnny, I would expect that you had competing bidders bidding against your proxy bid, just to see how high it was.
A successful bidding strategy requires stealth and unpredictability.
-Paul
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"Have you ever noticed individual bidders at live auctions being very stealthy about indicating their bids to the auctioneer? "
It has been known that other bidders will make bids when a specific bidder is seen to want an item. Just to make sure that person pays more for the item they want.
This occurs at every live auction whether the items for sale is a stamp, a postcard, a car or a horse.
At a horse sale in Edinburgh my father was asked to buy a particular horse for a friend because if the friend was seen to be interested in the horse others would bid him up!
My father got the horse for several hundred pounds less than his friends "Top Limit".
It later transpired that someone who was at the sale admitted that they would have bid up the horse if my fathers friend had bid on it.
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"It has been known that other bidders will make bids when a specific bidder is seen to want an item. Just to make sure that person pays more for the item they want."
Absolutely! Ever watch the TV show "Storage Wars" ? They're bidding on abandoned self storage lockers. It's staged but still, people will bid with no intent of winning just to make someone else pay more. Sometimes that bidder can turn the tables by abruptly stopping to bid, sticking the instigator with the lot!
Many years ago my father wanted to buy a car at the local government auction. There was a Ford LTD 2 door hardtop that had a front suspension collapse. We fantasized that it was a police chase car that was forfeited and wound up in the auction. Anyway. The bid started at $100. My father bid the $100 and waited. There shouldn't have been any interest in it, but a local car dealer bid $200 and my father had to pay $250 for the car.
That dealer chuckled and said he wasn't going to allow a non-dealer to get a deal like that. The other dealers all laughed.
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"It later transpired that someone who was at the sale admitted that they would have bid up the horse if my fathers friend had bid on it."
So Ebay still has some advantages. I really doubt it one will make a higher bid against bidder ypz999765 that he would against pmtqppm772. They should start selling horses.
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I always sit at the back of the room at an auction, so I can see who's bidding and I can be circumspect.
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"That dealer chuckled and said he wasn't going to allow a non-dealer to get a deal like that. The other dealers all laughed. "
I was at one aution house for the first time and was bidding on a stamp lot.
The auctioneer said " Come on folks you are not going to let a stranger get this lot".
Some one did bid, I made another bid, that someone made another bid, and I walked out the room never to return to that auction house!!
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I spend much of my day-job interacting with livestock dealers, market owners, and observing sales. I have specific mission elements of my job that are furthered by that activity.
By official definition, "dealers" serve as third-parties in sales transactions. Their business enterprise is buying from one party, and then selling to another party. The opportunity of "speculation" is a huge motivating factor. Simply stated, buy low, sell high, pocket the difference. It's a short leap from there to exploitation of any of the many vagaries that exist in all marketplaces. Things like mismatches between supply and demand, inexperienced/uninformed buyers, regional variations in supply or demand, just to name a few. This is where the "sucker born every minute" becomes an opportunity for the dealer.
My main point here is that "speculation" can manifest as corruption of the normal process of a marketplace to discover value. It usually manifests as "greed" in a general sense. From the seller's perspective, this might manifest as exaggerated desire - "can't live without it". Seeing this play out at a live auction can be very entertaining. I spend a lot of time honing my powers of perception of this phenomenon, and seeing how it influences people's behavior. Often, that behavior manifests as a deviation from rules (on livestock movements) which speaks to that "mission".
-Paul
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My favorite auction pastime is quality used automotive tools and equipment... Snap-on, Mac, Matco, etc
I'll go to garage or farm auctions, figure out what I'm willing to pay for a particular lot, and then wait for the first couple of bids.
Then my hand goes up..... and stays there. Direct eye contact with anyone bidding against me, and just stand there silent and motionless, bidder number raised. If that doesn't chase the vultures off the gutpile, and the lot exceeds my number, I just walk away.
In this setting (lots of car guys), hesitation is like chum to sharks. The "oh, this guy's at the end of his limit, he's faltering" mentality causes most of these guys to try "one more" time.
If I'm underbidder for a pittance over my "max", I'll toss in one more sometimes, but usually not.
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Yeah eBay is by default overpriced. It can take an hour or more of searching before I find anything I want to buy, and often enough I quit looking before I find anything. These days I don't look much.
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A couple of months ago, Laeding introduced me to the Braun Rasmussen auction house. They host all kinds of online collectible auctions, and have a large following of prospective buyers. I monitored a recent sale of Scandinavian stamps, many seldom-seen rarities. You're not going to score any bargains there!
OTOH, there are a plethora of uninformed/indifferent sellers on eBay. I don't know if they're just dispersing an ancestor's collection or what. Anyway, you can sometimes gauge the qualities of a seller by the character of his listings, and many times, I've stumbled across sellers who truly don't seem to know or care about what they're selling. If there are significant errors in the descriptions, relative rarities can escape the typical searches for them. Takes a lot of time and patience to suss out these opportunities, but massive opportunities they can be! That's how I got the Schleswig-Holstein rarities that I posted here:
Schleswig Holstein Sc#16
-Paul
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Cougar said, "Buying a collection auction style is the way to go."
Not for me! The last thing I want to do is buy stamps (and covers) that I know I won't want in order to find a keeper or two, and then put myself in the position of having to sell the collections or accumulations or give them away. The last thing I need to do is become a dealer! And there's this: Increasingly I find little to no pleasure in going through old albums or accumulations in hopes of finding treasure.
I don't pay a lot of attention to the prices of the stamps and covers I buy on eBay and a few other sites. A friend — Derren, who has worked his entire career in philately — once advised me not to buy a cover that had been salvaged from a British freighter that had been torpedoed by a U-boat in 1940. He said it was overpriced. I ignored his advice and bought the cover, and I'm glad I did. I've only seen half a dozen similar covers over the last 10 years; some have been less expensive, but most have been more expensive than what I paid. And there's this: that cover was a springboard which piqued my curiosity about the Battle of the Atlantic, and eventually became a key item in my first exhibit, about the economy of wartime Britain.
One of the few pleasures of our retirement is that it's less expensive than we thought it would be and we have more income than we ever dreamed possible in retirement. Of course, I had to get myself badly wounded in Vietnam, and end up with a helpful disability cheque each month, but it's nice not to have to pinch pennies and worry whether some dealer is charging four times more than catalogues say he can charge.
Bob
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I would not buy a collection unless I needed at least 80% of what was in the collection. I try not to accumulate a lot of surplus material since not in the business of trying to resell the excess.
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This is my diabetic cat OBI! I think, therefore I am - I think! Descartes, sort of!
28 Jan 2022
02:53:41pm
I'm probably going to tick people off again, but right now I don't really care! I went into E-Bay a little while ago to try to find a Russia stamp or two I needed to fill a few pages. The stamps were fairly early and most were a bit expensive. But every stamp I checked out seemed to be well above my 2015 CV. I know that's out of date but I still think the stamps were over priced. They were mostly from different sellers and were higher than reasonable. Has anyone else noticed price jumps lately for certain countries? And the shipping prices, well most were totally ridiculous. I know several of you are about to respond saying sellers have a right to get as much as they can. Well, they're damn well not going to get it from me!! All were buy-it-now prices. Maybe it's time for some of us to refuse to pay the exorbitant prices and only buy if the item is at auction! I think E-Bay is being driven, in some areas, by pure greed! Just my opinion, which I'm entitled to, so please don't blast me for it. I'm very happy with almost all the SOR sellers, so my complaint is not with sellers here!
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06:42:40pm
Auctions - Approvals
re: Pure greed!
Joe, you are not alone!
At least with buy it now you see the price the seller wants and you can buy it straight away or say "I ain't paying that (expletive deleted) price" and move on.
At auction the starting price would be the same as the BIN price so instead of buying at once you would have to wait several days to see if you won it or lost it or if you had to pay more.
Auctions also leaves you open to the "crazy, idiotic, "I'll pay whatever it takes to purchase the item" and the various "Sniping" systems available. There's nothing worse than thinking your going to win an item with several seconds to go and then the sniping bids come in and the item sells for double the price you thought was fair!! (expletive deleted)
"BUY IT NOW RULES OK!"
One of the drawbacks sellers have is the cost of postage. Every Postal "Service?" in the world charges exhorbitant prices as soon as you are sending mail across national borders.
If a seller misjudges the size and weight of a package to a buyer they can lose out by several dollars. Of course if they misjudge the size and weight of the package and overcharge they get it in the neck from the buyer.
Ebay fees also take into account what the shipping costs are as well as the purchase price.
Don't get me started on Ebays (expletive deleted) in house shipping system costs!!!
Lets be honest. One has no right to purchase an item that is up for sale or auction at the price you hope to pay.
Remember as one gets older our brain tends to lag behind reality especially over the abstract element of value. I still remember when gas was £0.25 a gallon( its around £7.50 now). Back in the 70's and 80'sit was normal practice that prices doubled every 8 years.
Your 2015 catalogue is now 7 years out of date!! Prices have changed in those seven years especially for these more difficult to find items.
I am currently bidding on an item on ebay. I have bid higher than any item I have ever bought on ebay to date. Yes I am prepared to go higher but no further than £XXX. If some one bids £XXXX then they can have it.
My life does not depend on winning or losing this item therefore "who cares?", there are more important things in life than winning or losing a piece of coloured paper. (like good company, a nice smooth vodka and a good cigar!!)Yes I have wasted time on wine women and Amateur Dramatics.
"What's fur ye 'ill no go past ye!"
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re: Pure greed!
I was, also, working with a 2014 catalog set and find that many items were priced much beyond what I was prepared to spend based on the catalog. However, once I acquired a 2022 catalog set and started using its values in my purchasing decisions I found that I was more successful in my bids!
Yes, there are many items where catalog values are definitely inflated, however, the best guides available still remain current catalogs despite their faults and inconsistencies. But it still remains exciting to find items where the condition is accurate and values are at a discount from catalog. Fortunately items do appear from time to time where the seller simply needs to get the best available price from a willing buyer at a given time which is where our bargains originate.
We do get some relative bargains through Stamporama which often influence more active purchases than most of us make through retail sales which definitely adds to the interest of our virtual stamp club! Plus the insights gained from others have been very motivating in learning more about the hobby as a whole in all of its idiosyncrasies.
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re: Pure greed!
Are these lots are selling? If not, you can contact them to make an offer. There are people willing to pay more and may not even know the catalog value (doubts about validity of some values anyway).
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11:59:49am
re: Pure greed!
I am absolutely sick of the snipes. I’ve never won anything on auction even when I’m sitting with fingers on the keyboard with 3 seconds left. Even when I have a very high pre-bid (e.g. 50-70%)!
But I’ve been very successful buying on eBay with “make an offer”.
I only buy full sets or critical singles where I rarely see them or if there are very few available and with no bids. Many are priced at/above CV and I usually tell them “I can only pay a maximum 30-40% CV and find I can get anything if I’m patient. Let me know if you’d like to have the money in your hands now” then I put in a 30% offer. A couple accepted, a couple bumped back at 40% (both of which I accept) and a couple FUs.
When it is a $50-150 sale it's amazing how willing people are to bargain.
Cheers Dave
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re: Pure greed!
I do not think there is anything new in this field. Buy-it-now prices have always been crazy high. Buying a single stamp is always going to do more damage than buying a group of stamps.
Personally I have used the buy-it-now on Ebay only a handful of times, to get a couple of stamps I needed that I didn't seem to find as part of a bulk purchase.
Buying a collection auction style is the way to go. You can also make offers on some lots although, the offers , I would make are often less than 50% of the BIN price, so I do not bother. It might only aggravate a seller.
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re: Pure greed!
There's a very easy way to get rid snipe bidders but again, ebay and PayPal
are not going to bite the hand that feeds them.
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01:55:21pm
Auctions - Approvals
re: Pure greed!
"It might only aggravate a seller. "
YUP! It sure does!
Why?
To me it is an insult.
I list my price which I think is fair. If you don't want to buy at that price that is your perogative. No skin off my nose if you walk away. But don't ask for a discount. You wouldn't do it at the supermarket so why do it to me or others.
There's one guy I know who accepts the cheap offers, takes the money, doesn't send the items and refunds the money when it has "failed to be delivered". He never gets bothered by that buyer ever again. He does the same with those buyers who want "extras".
Of course there are sellers who put up an inflated price to catch the unwary AND so they can give a reduction when some one "makes an offer"!!
It takes all sorts to make the world go round.
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This is my diabetic cat OBI! I think, therefore I am - I think! Descartes, sort of!
29 Jan 2022
02:38:38pm
re: Pure greed!
If the person posts that he accepts offers I will quite often make an offer. I make my best offer and if it is not accepted I move on. I deal quite often with Dan-the-stamp-man on E-Bay and usually only with his auction items. I'm usually successful about half the time and I'm happy with that. I do occasionally check his offers on his web site where he does "accept" offers. Once he had a huge lot of Russian stamps displayed page by page in the same Russian album I use. So it was easy to see what percentage I needed, about half. So I explained that in an email and offered him about 60%. It was still a very large amount, he accepted, and I essentially doubled my Russian collection. I also sold what remained to my regular local dealer for a couple hundred dollars and ended up very pleased. I just find that prices are really going up for certain countries on E-Bay, and combine that with the shipping costs, it's very difficult to buy there. But sometimes the price is fair so I wade in. The fun is in the search!!
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re: Pure greed!
I offer BIN on all of my fixed price listings.
Why? For no other reason than to attract new business. Some offers are ridiculous and I reject them, but offers between 10-20% off listing price are usually successful, and I get new customers. I haven't gone broke yet!
Regarding bidders losing Ebay lots to snipers, it's not the snipers fault, it's yours. If you've entered the highest bid you want to lodge, yet lose, your highest bid simply wasn't enough. Snipe software usually lodges bids between 2-5 seconds from the end of the auction. This no different to you entering bids for a live auction, and someone in the room raising their paddle at the auctioneers final call.
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This is my diabetic cat OBI! I think, therefore I am - I think! Descartes, sort of!
30 Jan 2022
08:06:00am
re: Pure greed!
Dave, you're right about snipers. I don't snipe, not because I don't believe in it, I just don't want to! When I lose to a sniped bid, I get a bit ticked, but it's my fault if my bid is not high enough. I assume the person who snipes still has to put in a maximum bid, if not picture two snipers on the same item whose bids are both "whatever"! That would be fun to watch! It's a bit different at a "paddle" auction because most of those are not timed. I still don't like being sniped but, you're right, it is my fault!
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re: Pure greed!
I find the BIN format much more convenient than auctions. Its an advertised, up-front price (with or without any offers/discounts), it can be "added to the cart" to make up a "shopping list" with other prospective purchases. Just last night I went on a little eBay spree, and found two sellers offering essentially the same lot at similar pricing. I added both to my cart, then later compared the two and made my decision. If they were auctions, I'd have had to track (and/or) bid on both, keeping tabs on auction closing times (which always seem to be directly correlated to some inconvenience in my schedule.... the more desirable the lot, the more likely it ends in the middle of my working day, and that some unforeseen catastrophe will cause me to be unavailable at the final bell).
I also have a tendency to forget exactly when an auction ends. As I am not a slave to my phone, I often don't actually see the "closing soon" reminders until well after the auction's already ended!
The "add to cart" BIN method also gives me a running total of what I'm potentially spending, so I can prioritize purchases. If I suddenly realize my "shopping list" is getting over my self-imposed budget, I can cull a few lots or save them for later.
I'm understand that I'm paying a premium for this convenience, but then again, I am a small-time collector, and I'm mostly still acquiring lots consisting of multiple inexpensive stamps. Paying an extra 10-20% for a $5-10 lot doesn't hurt as bad as paying the same premium for a $50 or $100 single stamp. (I'm not sure what I'll do if I eventually get to the point when all I'm missing is the really expensive stuff....)
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This is my diabetic cat OBI! I think, therefore I am - I think! Descartes, sort of!
30 Jan 2022
11:52:21am
re: Pure greed!
I agree, BIN can be great and I've used it many times on E-Bay. But I'm noticing that for some areas, Russia especially, the BIN prices for the higher end material is usually quite high. I also agree that for the more expensive material you usually have to pay more. But sometimes the prices seem extreme, you really have to want an object to justify some of the prices. So I do what any sane person would do, move on ... after complaining a little bit!! Please don't take away my right to a little complaining, that's half the fun!
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11:59:43am
re: Pure greed!
Harvey,
You may want to buy (or if your libary has them copy) the Scott 2022 pages just for Russia to check pricing. I use 2011 Scott but for my main areas of interest I go to the library and copy the more recent catalogue pages. Some of my stamps' SCV have gone up almsot 100%. I don't know about Russia, but what may seem unreasonable pricing at 2015 Scott catalogue may look more reasonable using 2022 pricing.
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This is my diabetic cat OBI! I think, therefore I am - I think! Descartes, sort of!
30 Jan 2022
12:34:27pm
re: Pure greed!
Good idea, I'll have to pick up the latest Scott's containing Russia. With any luck it will contain Poland as well.
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Silence in the face of adversity is the father of complicity and collusion, the first cousins of conspiracy..
30 Jan 2022
01:33:57pm
re: Pure greed!
" ... I am absolutely sick of the snipes. I’ve never won
anything on auction even when I’m sitting with fingers on
the keyboard with 3 seconds left. ...."
In what is fast becoming the distant past, I enjoyed setting
up my clock and multiple open screens with ready to post E-bay
bids.
It was an exciting evening when I managed to outbid and possibly
outwit other bidders. But between what are obviously computer
generated last millisecond bids and the wear and tear on my fingers
and nerves over about twenty years, manual sniping has become
frustrating. Add to that the changes in E-bay's policies and
procedures and I no longer worry stamps on E-bay.
Today, fair and honest auction systems allow the bidding to be
extended three minutes (One popular Auction house.) or much longer
(Here at SoR)
So automated computerized systems won out, but there were many exciting
evenings or post midnight closing times in those days and I loved
the thrill of winning over generally equally competent collectors.
Even with the three or five minute extension rule there is still room
for a significant amount of exhilaration.
Usually I have two or three favorites picked out an up to a half dozen
back-up lots, on standby, just waiting for my increased bid so that if,
near the end of bidding, someone who lost out on some expensive lot after
having been outbid beyond his limits, and who then quickly looks for an
alternative home for his, or her, money, chooses a lot I had my heart
set on taking home, I can respond. At three minutes, I have just about
time to realize what happened and can shift my attention over to one of
my acceptable second choices that I have all set up an ready to enter
what might be a winning bid.
I dislike it when, in an auction with a firm closing time, I may have
bid on lot "A" and an or bid on lots "B" and "C," I get out bid on all my
choices. I get nothing.
Usually I have a few hundred dollars to spend and would be quite happy to
move my money over to something else. But a closed bid ends the night.
(Or evening in Australia.)
I guess that is slow motion "sniping" more or less, with the added
opportunity for someone I out bid to answer and counter my bidding.
Sometimes those three minute extensions can run on and on for two or
more hours until everyone with a few dollars to spend has found
something they want, or they have dozed off from sheer exhaustion.
" And that's the news from Lake Wobegon, where all the women are strong, all the men are good looking, and all the children are above average. "
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07:30:09pm
re: Pure greed!
"Sniping" is the only way I'll bid on online auctions.
I have a very simple, straightforward reason for that. I do not want my competition (other bidders) to base their bids on what I'm willing to bid. So, I deprive my competition of that information by bidding too late for them to react to it. That's my competitive advantage: other bidders do not have access to my valuation of the item.
Bidding wars are very common on desirable items. Bidding wars occur when bidders base their bids on what their competition has bid. That's an irrational way to discover value.
Many times, my sniped bid is too low to win the item. My competition has valued the item higher than I did, and that's fine with me. There are many more fish in the sea. Maybe I saw a condition issue affecting value that my competition did not. Sellers rejoice, because my losing bid raises the selling price of the item, regardless of who wins.
Just moments ago, I sniped a bid of $64.99 on a stamp that was at $58. I didn't win that auction, the item sold for $65.99. Why that bid? Because, I had the identical item, in the identical condition, in my shopping cart priced at...you guessed it, $64.99, BIN.
Hint: if you need some help establishing marketplace value, click on the checkbox for "Completed Listings", and see what other similar items have sold for recently.
-Paul
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07:38:52pm
re: Pure greed!
Here's an example of a bidder bidding against his competition, and not against the value of the item:
He bids $8, sees he has been outbid by a proxy bid, and 3 seconds later, bids $10, using the convenient button on eBay's bidding page. So predictable. Stay tuned, this item ends in 18 minutes, and I'm going to snipe it.
-Paul
Took a closer look at that item, and it has a 3mm tear from the left margin. I wouldn't give 10 cents for it with that kind of defect.
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re: Pure greed!
Paul just saved me a ton of typing! He's absolutely right. There is no sense showing your cards early! In fact it's known that auctions with a bid attract other bids, more than auctions without any!
As far as outrageous pricing on Fixed Price Items, eBay gives anyone 200-250 free auctions or fixed price items a month! And when you buy the minimum store, you can list up to 10,000 fixed price items!
So people can list items for huge numbers... I call it "Trolling for Suckers". Figure that selling one item once in a while at a huge price beats shipping 10-20 items at nominal value!
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re: Pure greed!
With sniping I also get an item at 50% or less of my bid every now and then. There is no way I will get this type of savings if I put my maximum bid in 5 days earlier.
But the most practical reason I have for using snipes is it saves me all anxiety and frustration with having to be at my computer at a certain time of the day or night to place a bid and only get outbid by someone else. Do I really need that?
After I set up my snipes I like to completely forget about them. If the item shows up under my purchases on Ebay, I pay for it. If not, it usually gets removed from the list of snipes automatically, so I do not have to be reminded of what I've lost and the margin between the winning bid and mine.
I really like it this way.
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re: Pure greed!
On ebay, due to the bidding habits of some, it is best to not reveal what you are willing to pay as they bid according to other bidders. If ebay extended the auction by several minutes after the last bid, as in public auctions, then it would change the dynamics.
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01:22:25pm
re: Pure greed!
In live auctions, I will usually NOT be the first bidder on an item, in order to gauge the gallery's interest in it. Like, if nobody wants to bid, I probably won't have much competition, and the lower the opening bid goes, as the auctioneer seeks to find it. Many times, I'll get the item at the opening bid, usually $1. Another strategy I employ is to wait to bid until the auctioneer says, "Going once, going twice...". That's when I like to start bidding. Often, the appearance of a new bidder at the very end is demoralizing to the the current high bidder, and they immediately quit. But, you can't have any distractions when using this strategy!
Many, many years ago, The Stamp Center had a monthly timed silent auction on a Saturday. The lots were all displayed on bulletin boards, and to bid, you wrote your bidder number and bid on the card next to the lot. The auctions always ended at 12:00 noon, sharp, and they used a bedroom alarm clock to stop the auction - the old kind with flip numerals. When the alarm sounded, the auction monitor would shout, "STOP! Pencils down!" I would always find the one lot I wanted The Most, and then I would watch that clock until it flipped to 11:59. At that point, I would start counting, "One thousand one, one thousand two..." When I got to "one thousand fifty-five", I would sidle up to that desired lot, and write the last bid in just as the alarm sounded. Sniping, old style! I got some nice US banknotes that way!
-Paul
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re: Pure greed!
We don't bid online: endless drama & greed.
Solution: Private Silent Auction (invitation only). Physical attendance is required.
Electronics devices are confiscated entering the building. Bidders are check in & entered his/her assigned individual room.
.
All bids are placed & locked into the system (secretly).
All bids are revealed when the alarm is sounded.
(NOTE) Nobody know what time the alarm will sound.
Rogelio Lee
French Polynesia Stamp Club
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re: Pure greed!
Those are some very severe requirements for auctions!
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Silence in the face of adversity is the father of complicity and collusion, the first cousins of conspiracy..
04 Feb 2022
07:17:37pm
re: Pure greed!
" ... Those are some very severe requirements for auctions! ..."
I suspect any seller who enters his, or her, stamps in such a
"restrictive" environment is missing the point of auctioning
the stamps.
If I wanted to get the best price for some stamps or albums,
I'd want the potential buyers to bid as much as possible,
not be prevented from bidding, not be deterred from doing so
by some anal bylaws.
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re: Pure greed!
Here's a good example of Snipe bidding I saved... note ALL the bids were placed within the last minute!
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09:16:52am
Auctions - Approvals
re: Pure greed!
Larry :-
I know how you feel!
What is it with Italian stamps?
Buying Italian collections is a nightmare. You never know how much they will go for.
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09:24:53am
re: Pure greed!
Have you ever noticed individual bidders at live auctions being very stealthy about indicating their bids to the auctioneer? It can be an almost imperceptible head nod, a finger wag, or even an eye blink if there's a close relationship between the bidder and auctioneer. Otherwise, they're perfectly stone-faced.
Why do they do that?
Experienced auction buyers do everything they can to hide their intentions from the competition, just like poker players.
Johnny, I would expect that you had competing bidders bidding against your proxy bid, just to see how high it was.
A successful bidding strategy requires stealth and unpredictability.
-Paul
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12:16:11pm
Auctions - Approvals
re: Pure greed!
"Have you ever noticed individual bidders at live auctions being very stealthy about indicating their bids to the auctioneer? "
It has been known that other bidders will make bids when a specific bidder is seen to want an item. Just to make sure that person pays more for the item they want.
This occurs at every live auction whether the items for sale is a stamp, a postcard, a car or a horse.
At a horse sale in Edinburgh my father was asked to buy a particular horse for a friend because if the friend was seen to be interested in the horse others would bid him up!
My father got the horse for several hundred pounds less than his friends "Top Limit".
It later transpired that someone who was at the sale admitted that they would have bid up the horse if my fathers friend had bid on it.
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re: Pure greed!
"It has been known that other bidders will make bids when a specific bidder is seen to want an item. Just to make sure that person pays more for the item they want."
Absolutely! Ever watch the TV show "Storage Wars" ? They're bidding on abandoned self storage lockers. It's staged but still, people will bid with no intent of winning just to make someone else pay more. Sometimes that bidder can turn the tables by abruptly stopping to bid, sticking the instigator with the lot!
Many years ago my father wanted to buy a car at the local government auction. There was a Ford LTD 2 door hardtop that had a front suspension collapse. We fantasized that it was a police chase car that was forfeited and wound up in the auction. Anyway. The bid started at $100. My father bid the $100 and waited. There shouldn't have been any interest in it, but a local car dealer bid $200 and my father had to pay $250 for the car.
That dealer chuckled and said he wasn't going to allow a non-dealer to get a deal like that. The other dealers all laughed.
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re: Pure greed!
"It later transpired that someone who was at the sale admitted that they would have bid up the horse if my fathers friend had bid on it."
So Ebay still has some advantages. I really doubt it one will make a higher bid against bidder ypz999765 that he would against pmtqppm772. They should start selling horses.
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re: Pure greed!
I always sit at the back of the room at an auction, so I can see who's bidding and I can be circumspect.
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05:40:35am
Auctions - Approvals
re: Pure greed!
"That dealer chuckled and said he wasn't going to allow a non-dealer to get a deal like that. The other dealers all laughed. "
I was at one aution house for the first time and was bidding on a stamp lot.
The auctioneer said " Come on folks you are not going to let a stranger get this lot".
Some one did bid, I made another bid, that someone made another bid, and I walked out the room never to return to that auction house!!
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08:42:45am
re: Pure greed!
I spend much of my day-job interacting with livestock dealers, market owners, and observing sales. I have specific mission elements of my job that are furthered by that activity.
By official definition, "dealers" serve as third-parties in sales transactions. Their business enterprise is buying from one party, and then selling to another party. The opportunity of "speculation" is a huge motivating factor. Simply stated, buy low, sell high, pocket the difference. It's a short leap from there to exploitation of any of the many vagaries that exist in all marketplaces. Things like mismatches between supply and demand, inexperienced/uninformed buyers, regional variations in supply or demand, just to name a few. This is where the "sucker born every minute" becomes an opportunity for the dealer.
My main point here is that "speculation" can manifest as corruption of the normal process of a marketplace to discover value. It usually manifests as "greed" in a general sense. From the seller's perspective, this might manifest as exaggerated desire - "can't live without it". Seeing this play out at a live auction can be very entertaining. I spend a lot of time honing my powers of perception of this phenomenon, and seeing how it influences people's behavior. Often, that behavior manifests as a deviation from rules (on livestock movements) which speaks to that "mission".
-Paul
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re: Pure greed!
My favorite auction pastime is quality used automotive tools and equipment... Snap-on, Mac, Matco, etc
I'll go to garage or farm auctions, figure out what I'm willing to pay for a particular lot, and then wait for the first couple of bids.
Then my hand goes up..... and stays there. Direct eye contact with anyone bidding against me, and just stand there silent and motionless, bidder number raised. If that doesn't chase the vultures off the gutpile, and the lot exceeds my number, I just walk away.
In this setting (lots of car guys), hesitation is like chum to sharks. The "oh, this guy's at the end of his limit, he's faltering" mentality causes most of these guys to try "one more" time.
If I'm underbidder for a pittance over my "max", I'll toss in one more sometimes, but usually not.
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re: Pure greed!
Yeah eBay is by default overpriced. It can take an hour or more of searching before I find anything I want to buy, and often enough I quit looking before I find anything. These days I don't look much.
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09:51:06am
re: Pure greed!
A couple of months ago, Laeding introduced me to the Braun Rasmussen auction house. They host all kinds of online collectible auctions, and have a large following of prospective buyers. I monitored a recent sale of Scandinavian stamps, many seldom-seen rarities. You're not going to score any bargains there!
OTOH, there are a plethora of uninformed/indifferent sellers on eBay. I don't know if they're just dispersing an ancestor's collection or what. Anyway, you can sometimes gauge the qualities of a seller by the character of his listings, and many times, I've stumbled across sellers who truly don't seem to know or care about what they're selling. If there are significant errors in the descriptions, relative rarities can escape the typical searches for them. Takes a lot of time and patience to suss out these opportunities, but massive opportunities they can be! That's how I got the Schleswig-Holstein rarities that I posted here:
Schleswig Holstein Sc#16
-Paul
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re: Pure greed!
Cougar said, "Buying a collection auction style is the way to go."
Not for me! The last thing I want to do is buy stamps (and covers) that I know I won't want in order to find a keeper or two, and then put myself in the position of having to sell the collections or accumulations or give them away. The last thing I need to do is become a dealer! And there's this: Increasingly I find little to no pleasure in going through old albums or accumulations in hopes of finding treasure.
I don't pay a lot of attention to the prices of the stamps and covers I buy on eBay and a few other sites. A friend — Derren, who has worked his entire career in philately — once advised me not to buy a cover that had been salvaged from a British freighter that had been torpedoed by a U-boat in 1940. He said it was overpriced. I ignored his advice and bought the cover, and I'm glad I did. I've only seen half a dozen similar covers over the last 10 years; some have been less expensive, but most have been more expensive than what I paid. And there's this: that cover was a springboard which piqued my curiosity about the Battle of the Atlantic, and eventually became a key item in my first exhibit, about the economy of wartime Britain.
One of the few pleasures of our retirement is that it's less expensive than we thought it would be and we have more income than we ever dreamed possible in retirement. Of course, I had to get myself badly wounded in Vietnam, and end up with a helpful disability cheque each month, but it's nice not to have to pinch pennies and worry whether some dealer is charging four times more than catalogues say he can charge.
Bob
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re: Pure greed!
I would not buy a collection unless I needed at least 80% of what was in the collection. I try not to accumulate a lot of surplus material since not in the business of trying to resell the excess.
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