Discussion - Member to Member Sales - Research Center
Discussion - Member to Member Sales - Research Center
06:28:01pm
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When you use a specific album system (Minkus, Scott, Gibbons, Lighthouse, Davo, etc.) and do not want to collect beyond what they provide spaces for in the album then you have to be content what is there. That is one way to collect. My method is to start with with an album and customize from there. This is one reason why I chose Steiner pages (based upon Scott) plus more spaces than any Scott printed album.
Since they are 8½ x 11 Letter size, I can modify or create pages (matching is more important to me than the scrapbook approach) to create whatever I want to add.
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08:01:59am
I don't redo pages to customize the albums I use but I'm always open to adding in new items when I see something interesting. When I went through SG Russia some of the stamps I wasn't familiar with look very interesting!! One thing I really like about my Poland and Russia Minkus albums is that instead of a huge BOB section many things are put in in the order of release - no airmails, postage due, etc. at the end. I wish Harris had done the same, but I can live with the albums I have.
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I had my eyes opened by something Laeding sent me a couple of years ago. It was an excerpt of a booklet published by a Danish philatelist/scholar/author describing the various printings of the "tofarvet" (two-color) Danish West Indies stamps, produced in the mid- to late 19th century.
We've all reckoned with the color descriptions in Scott, and the perforation and paper varieties. But, what do those really indicate about the actual PRODUCTION of the stamps? Of course, the technology available in the 19th century for mixing up a batch of ink utilized somewhat crude instruments, relative to what can be done with today's technology. Not to mention variation in the raw ingredients of ink. Couple that with the recognition of just how incredibly sensitive the human eye is to light wavelength. The upshot is that, virtually every 'batch' of ink was unique in color. Because printings were separated in time, each printing was done with a new batch. And, for a large printing, one could even imagine needing multiple batches of ink.
I'm taking the long way around to explaining why I think Scott (for example) is grossly inadequate for making meaningful distinctions useful to understand the actual production of a given stamp. For the tofarvet, within any single Scott number, there might be 10 different production runs (or, printings), each with its own individual ink batch and paper batch. To me, these are important distinctions, not only to determine when a stamp was produced, but to place it in context of 'the times' - constraints on materials, logistics, even politics.
So, bottom line is to think of the 'commercial' catalogs - Scott, Gibbons, Facit and the like - as serving a purpose. But if your purpose is to truly understand the distinctions arising from the stamp's actual production, you need to dig a bit deeper, and find the work of someone who has a pure scholarly motivation. That purpose is what has me wishing I could travel back in time and spend a few weeks in a print shop, say, in about 1852.
-Paul
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Harvey
you are right about Scott's limitations. But it never set itself up to highlight the differences you see in DWI. I don't know about DWI specialist material, but I can tell you that Czech material exists many fold more intricate than Scott lists. Again, Scott doesn't go there, and if it did for its entire portfolio, we'd be looking at catalogues thrice the size and price of what's issued now. Still 6 volumes and the specialized, but with A-F for each.
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This is the example that I had ran across researching 2 colors in Scott for a Bermuda issue. For me, it is hard to tell the difference even with reference samples. Scott only listed 2 color and did not list the perforation differences.
The image is from the KGVI Stamps web site. http://www.kgvistamps.com/
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Just to reinforce the madness, here's what I have for Danish West Indies, Scott #6:
The inverted frames are mounted upside down, and I've circled a few varietal features - the "wedge flaw". This is FAR from a 'complete' set! It's maybe 10% or 20%. Again, just ONE Scott number.
So, the challenge question is: How would you design an album page to accommodate this kind of a deep dive?
My answer: can't be done.
The most important feature in a mounting scheme to me is...flexibility.
-Paul
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05:11:41pm
I really admire someone that can put all of this together. It's not the way I want to collect at this point, but you never know what you might get into at some point. It's really hard to say someone else is over the top when you have 300+ oil lamps in the house and a collection of several thousand Marvel comics. We all have our own definition of "over the top"!!
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This is my diabetic cat OBI! I think, therefore I am - I think! Descartes, sort of!
11 Jan 2022
06:28:01pm
I almost totally use Scott's but I also have a copy of Stanley Gibbons Part 10 which is Russia. To further confuse matters I collect Russia up to 1985 with BOB in two Minkus albums. Each of the three sources use it's own numbering system. Since I use the Minkus album I collect the stamps they show. Most of these stamps are in Scott's and also most are in Stanley Gibbons, but some are in neither. Of course most are consistently in all three. I was perusing SG and noticed some Russian stamps I have never seen before and I really wasn't really expecting that! So I guess if you an old fashioned collector your collection depends on the album and/or the catalog you use. This is all very confusing and complicated, but I guess when we say what we collect we have to keep the source in mind - a complete collection of an area could vary a bit depending on our source. I'm curious, is there much variation in countries like the US? My guess is that Scott's and SG have several differences in what they list for most countries. I know a lot of you construct your own pages and leave out a lot of the obscure stuff - maybe that's the way to go, but it's just not for an old fashioned collector like me!
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re: The collection depends on many things!
When you use a specific album system (Minkus, Scott, Gibbons, Lighthouse, Davo, etc.) and do not want to collect beyond what they provide spaces for in the album then you have to be content what is there. That is one way to collect. My method is to start with with an album and customize from there. This is one reason why I chose Steiner pages (based upon Scott) plus more spaces than any Scott printed album.
Since they are 8½ x 11 Letter size, I can modify or create pages (matching is more important to me than the scrapbook approach) to create whatever I want to add.
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this post
This is my diabetic cat OBI! I think, therefore I am - I think! Descartes, sort of!
12 Jan 2022
08:01:59am
re: The collection depends on many things!
I don't redo pages to customize the albums I use but I'm always open to adding in new items when I see something interesting. When I went through SG Russia some of the stamps I wasn't familiar with look very interesting!! One thing I really like about my Poland and Russia Minkus albums is that instead of a huge BOB section many things are put in in the order of release - no airmails, postage due, etc. at the end. I wish Harris had done the same, but I can live with the albums I have.
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08:38:13am
re: The collection depends on many things!
I had my eyes opened by something Laeding sent me a couple of years ago. It was an excerpt of a booklet published by a Danish philatelist/scholar/author describing the various printings of the "tofarvet" (two-color) Danish West Indies stamps, produced in the mid- to late 19th century.
We've all reckoned with the color descriptions in Scott, and the perforation and paper varieties. But, what do those really indicate about the actual PRODUCTION of the stamps? Of course, the technology available in the 19th century for mixing up a batch of ink utilized somewhat crude instruments, relative to what can be done with today's technology. Not to mention variation in the raw ingredients of ink. Couple that with the recognition of just how incredibly sensitive the human eye is to light wavelength. The upshot is that, virtually every 'batch' of ink was unique in color. Because printings were separated in time, each printing was done with a new batch. And, for a large printing, one could even imagine needing multiple batches of ink.
I'm taking the long way around to explaining why I think Scott (for example) is grossly inadequate for making meaningful distinctions useful to understand the actual production of a given stamp. For the tofarvet, within any single Scott number, there might be 10 different production runs (or, printings), each with its own individual ink batch and paper batch. To me, these are important distinctions, not only to determine when a stamp was produced, but to place it in context of 'the times' - constraints on materials, logistics, even politics.
So, bottom line is to think of the 'commercial' catalogs - Scott, Gibbons, Facit and the like - as serving a purpose. But if your purpose is to truly understand the distinctions arising from the stamp's actual production, you need to dig a bit deeper, and find the work of someone who has a pure scholarly motivation. That purpose is what has me wishing I could travel back in time and spend a few weeks in a print shop, say, in about 1852.
-Paul
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re: The collection depends on many things!
Harvey
you are right about Scott's limitations. But it never set itself up to highlight the differences you see in DWI. I don't know about DWI specialist material, but I can tell you that Czech material exists many fold more intricate than Scott lists. Again, Scott doesn't go there, and if it did for its entire portfolio, we'd be looking at catalogues thrice the size and price of what's issued now. Still 6 volumes and the specialized, but with A-F for each.
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re: The collection depends on many things!
This is the example that I had ran across researching 2 colors in Scott for a Bermuda issue. For me, it is hard to tell the difference even with reference samples. Scott only listed 2 color and did not list the perforation differences.
The image is from the KGVI Stamps web site. http://www.kgvistamps.com/
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04:52:08pm
re: The collection depends on many things!
Just to reinforce the madness, here's what I have for Danish West Indies, Scott #6:
The inverted frames are mounted upside down, and I've circled a few varietal features - the "wedge flaw". This is FAR from a 'complete' set! It's maybe 10% or 20%. Again, just ONE Scott number.
So, the challenge question is: How would you design an album page to accommodate this kind of a deep dive?
My answer: can't be done.
The most important feature in a mounting scheme to me is...flexibility.
-Paul
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this post
This is my diabetic cat OBI! I think, therefore I am - I think! Descartes, sort of!
13 Jan 2022
05:11:41pm
re: The collection depends on many things!
I really admire someone that can put all of this together. It's not the way I want to collect at this point, but you never know what you might get into at some point. It's really hard to say someone else is over the top when you have 300+ oil lamps in the house and a collection of several thousand Marvel comics. We all have our own definition of "over the top"!!
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