Discussion - Member to Member Sales - Research Center
Discussion - Member to Member Sales - Research Center
I just received a quote for insurance on my collection and it seems quite reasonable. However, one of the caveats is a complete record of your collection must exist and be maintained. That is one thing I have not been too good about, plus I have a whole room for stamps.
I am just curious how others keep records of their collections, and how you keep up to date?
Thanks,
Josh
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I probably have the same problem as you in trying to keep everything up to date. I try to scan album pages and keep spreadsheets current, but that takes time and inclination! It also takes time away from stamps! I try, but it never really is completely up to date.
I should scan the pages. I just need to figure out why VueScan won't scan an entire page.
Peter
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I have built over time a complete database of all stamps I have and update at each purchase. I am using Filemaker and record the stamp number, in Y&T, Scott and Michel. It also has the purchase price, the latest price on Stamporama and other Web sites. I do not care of the catalog price, considering that the sales are a much better gauge. I do not fill all the fields, except the Y&T number. All the other fields are filled on a need basis.
Nebertheless, once in a while I purchase a stamp already in my collection. I suspect I am not the only one in the world doing that.
Enjoy and keep safe, Michel
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i maintain my collection in StampManage and keep a scan of every album page. It adds a little overhead to the collecting but the images make an excellent quick reference. It would also help to keep purchase records.
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I have my collection insured through the Wood Agency (APS's Program). Their pricing is very reasonable and there isn't a record keeping requirement as you describe it. Regardless I keep a detailed record of my collection.
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Have to admit that I have not got separate coverage for my stamps, other than a few thousand under the general home policy.
Really cannot be bothered with scanning every page, itemizing lists. How do you ever put a value on boxes of unsoaked Machins (probably 10-20,000) apart from the envelopes of soaked sorted/unsorted. Stock books full of duplicates, and then the albums.
If the lot went up in smoke tomorrow would I bother to start again, don't think so, maybe if a lot younger with more years left to live.
My pleasure comes from the soaking, sorting, possible finds and the searching for missing items, making up pages/albums and generally messing around with my accumulation.
I regularly donate to our local club, especially the countries that are not on my collecting horizon, they bring in a few bucks for the club. Holocaust stamps has had a few thousand Machins to count.
I do understand that philatelists who have valuable stamps and rare collections (such as Rob, down under) would probably need coverage, but in that case would you insure for cost or replacement, bearing in mind that the loss of a rare stamp makes another of the same ilk even more valuable.
My stamps are my hobby, especially when it's minus 40 and blowing a blizzard, there are no other collectors in the family, so when I'm gone it's gone and I shall not be worrying.
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I have an insurance policy for my collection, added as a rider years ago. I've never been told what my responsibilities were in this regard, but if I were to lose my collection I am 100% certain that my insurer would cover 0% of its value. I don't even know what it's worth! A lot.
I've spent the bulk of my spending money on my collection for the last 40 years or so, but as a record keeper I am hopeless. I have covers that I have spent a small fortune on, and others that I have been given as gifts that are worth upwards of a hundred dollars or more. I often spend more on shipping costs than the value of the stamps and covers that are being shipped. Much of my collection consists of stamps and covers that cost good money to buy but have little if any commercial value. A stamp dealer friend of mine once told me that she does no more than glance through album pages, searching for the odd stamp that might have significant value. She doesn't even consider assessing catalogue value in more than extremely rough, eyeball terms.
My bottom line is this, or these:
• I cannot place any monetary value on a collection that primarily has, for me, recreational & educational value.
• Most of my collection is worth what other collectors might pay for it, not what an insurance company would pay for its loss.
• I don't really care. I enjoy collecting stamps, covers, and postcards. I would not enjoy a single moment of trying to evaluate my collection in monetary terms. I tend not to do things I don't enjoy, so I won't be doing that. If I die before my wife, my collection will become the problem of a stamp dealer, and my wife will enjoy any cash that it turns into.
Now you'll have to excuse me. I have to go on-line to look for an Australian booklet to add to my Vietnam War collection.
Bob
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I do not think scanning and inventory is counter to enjoying stamps. I use StampManage to ensure I do not buy something twice. I scan since I can use as a reference as well. I do not track attention to specific value.
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Angore said, "I do not think scanning and inventory is counter to enjoying stamps."
I scan many of my stamps and covers, but mostly to enable me to share them with other collectors and occasionally to "post process" an image to make it clearer. And while I enjoy that process, I am not concerned about ever recovering the the cost of my collection. A dealer may tell me that a given stamp, cover, or postcard is valuable in his or her eyes, but I, thank you, will decide whether the same stamps, cover, or postcards have any extrinsic intrinsic value.
Some covers in my collection may have zero value, or great cash value, to anyone else, but they are so valuable to me that I can't even consider selling them regardless of how they might enhance my bank account.
Bob
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I'm with you, Bob!
My collection to me is priceless and I enjoy working with it and viewing it every so often. I just can't think of getting rid of it when my time approaches - now down to 4 years!
My brother, if he is still around when I've gone, will look at it with disdain, especially if he can gain access to all my records and see just what I have spent on these little pieces of coloured paper (his description!) and how much time spent on it. It's kept me sane throughout this pandemic!
But I like computers and stamps, the two go so well together, which keeps me even busier! Good thing I am retired!
Peter
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For those of you keeping your inventories...
Make sure you have a copy outside of your home! So the inventory isn't paper or on a hard drive that will burn up or be stolen with the stamps! I know folks who hadn't thought of this step!
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Very good advice. I have created an access database to store all my stamp records. I backup my database and data both locally and to the cloud. Additionally, periodically I place a flash drive of my back-ups with other important papers in my safety deposit box.
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Thanks for all the advice. I am thinking I should at least start taking pictures of my better albums and keep them in the "cloud".
Does StampManage or other software handle when you collect more than one of a stamp? Example I have 3 used copies of the Baby Zep, plus a cover.
Thanks,
Josh
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For StampManage, yes.
StampManage has a master reference database. You add entries to collections (multiple ones) and can add as many of the same Scott number stamps you want. They can have same details (Mint, Used, etc) or different. If you delete something from a collection, it does not affect the reference database.
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I have catalogued my collection using a programme called StampCAT. Unfortunately it is no longer sold but the Swedish developers still maintain updates. It is one of the best programmes I have come across and have been using it for many years. So I do enter all stamps into this programme which certainly gives me lists so that I don't duplicate purchases, which still does happen! I can attach scanned images of stamps to the records in StampCAT and do so for many commemorative stamps, particularly those that form a part of my collection 'A Philatelic History of the Royal Navy' which is published in WordPress. As for insurance, can't see the reason for insuring as I doubt it would be worth the effort to supply catalogue lists and values which very likely would not be covered for a total loss, although I am sure that if you are prepared to pay a high enough premium you can insure anything! I do get great pleasure from collecting stamps, covers, booklets and I do enjoy entering this data into my stamp programme, keeps me busy as a retired chap. What happens to my collection after I have passed on, well not something I am particularly concerned about, just hope that my daughter will look after the collection even though I don't imagine she will be interested in continuing with collecting.
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I have a very nerdy Excel database with every stamp of "value" - number condition and Value (2010 Scott catalog), and page and book placement in my now 61 Lindner Binders.
A labor of love but not for the faint of heart (or eyesight). The numerous US duplicates - I don't bother - I just place them by denomination in binders.
My insurance company did not believe the "value" but my records persuaded them to cover.
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Great question!
However, I don't expect my collection to be lost in a disaster covered by insurance.
The more likely disaster is I die and my NOK have to deal with the collection disposition.
The easy answer is document everything significant so the Executor can dispose of it appropriately.
I hate spending my time on Earth putting detailed info in the various stamp inventory programs. I enjoy the collecting hunt, not inventorying what I get.
I'm now dead. You didn't care about my collection while I was alive, why the concern now. when you could have talked with me when I was alive?
Deal with it at your own risk, you inherited it ... if you don't care when I was active, neither do I at this point.
I took the one or two stamps I am REALLY attached to with me. =0)
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I did the kids a favor and did not include our stamps in the family trust...they will have enough to deal with 55-60 years of clutter. I have no interest in selling the stamps in my collection...i try to sell off duplicates and stamps i do not collect, i have rifles and shotguns i have not used in years...i have no interest in selling them ..the kids have no interest in guns..someone will get a bargain. I have spoken !
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What Phil said.
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"However, I don't expect my collection to be lost in a disaster covered by insurance."
In view of the recent tornados in Kentucky and nearby states, ya never know! Of course the loss of life comes first, but you have to wonder how many collectibles, from stamps to antiques and old cars were lost in the storms.
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Tom, i think about it every time there is a disaster..how many collectors or collections lost?
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I had a package coming from California and wondered if it was lost in the storm. It arrived last night.
For those that do not care about their collectors after their passing and know no heirs will care, consider donating it to a good cause - philatelic or otherwise.
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I am certain the APS gets many such donations...i have purchased from them on trips to Bellefonte.
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Josh:
I may be out of date on this, but as far as I recall, there are 2 major insurance agencies that have specialized insurance for stamps and other philatelic items.
One is the plan that is offered through the APS, managed by Hugh Wood Inc. In addition to being pretty affordable, you do not need to do a complete inventory of your collection. Again, if I'm recalling correctly, you only had to declare individual items that were valued over either $1000 or $10,000. (Just can't remember which threshold, although I think it might have been $10,000, because I have a couple of items that would be valued over $1000.) This policy requires membership in the APS.
There is also another firm that was nearly as competitive, and did not require APS membership. Unfortunately, I cannot recall its name at the moment. I Googled a little bit to see if my memory could be refreshed, and I *think* it was Collectibles Insurance Agency. I see one company with a similar name, but slightly different, and the logo doesn't look like what I recall, but this could just be some corporate changes. I just don't know. Again, that plan also did not require a complete inventory -- just a declaration over items over a certain high value. (It looks like it might be $25,000.)
Some links:
https://stamps.org/services/insurance
https://hwinternational.com/us/industries/fine-art-collectibles/fine-art-collection-insurance/stamp-insurance/
If I read between the lines, you may be able to get a slightly different policy through Hugh Wood for stamps, as they mention stamps coverage on their website without referencing the APS.
And this *may* be the other agency I was thinking of:
https://collectinsure.com/other-collections/
Perhaps someone will remember the name of the company with the alternate coverage?
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Dave,
It is the APS/Hugh Wood plan, and they mentioned this requirement with the quote.
Thanks,
Josh
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That they now need a complete inventory? 
If so, this is a very big change.
Edited to add:
I take it's not just a description of your collections, with a specific declaration of items above a certain amount?
Would you be able to share with us the verbiage of what they are asking for?
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I wonder if there is a collector on this board who made a claim for having his or her stamp collection destroyed and what the outcome was.
My understanding is that an insurance company will send someone to verify that insured items were on the property and were damaged - like the burnt house itself, vehicles, motorcycles, appliances - mostly items that have metal components and are not destroyed beyond recognition.
When it comes to a stamp collection, who will know what was really there?
I can have a stamp collection (or a single stamp) worth millions, insured it for millions, then hid it in a bank safe box and declared it burnt in a fire. Am I going to get the insurance money?? Nobody would ever be able to prove the collection did not burn.
I have mentioned my collection to my property insurer , and although they told me it is best to keep a good record of what I have, they never cared to look at what I actually had.
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I was not aware that Hugh Wood required a complete inventory. They had focused on high value items but still think a good inventory, receipts, and other supporting material etc. would help your claim if you have to submit one.
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The plan I have is indeed the Hugh Woods / APS plan. I am not endorsing this plan and each collector should shop around and find what is best for them.
I have had this plan for about ten years. There has never been an inventory requirement. They sell coverage in blocks of $1,000 and I have increased the amount of my coverage several times over the ten years I have had the policy. Their phone rep graciously takes note of the amount of my requested increase, quotes the cost of the additional premium, and tells me to add it to my invoice and submit a check. Period! Easy! And their rates are quite reasonable.
I think you need to be dues paying member of the APS to take advantage of this plan, however.
David
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I received the policy in the mail. I think the verbiage "complete record of your collection must exist and be maintained" was on the slip I sent with the payment, as I do not see elsewhere. Either way, it is probably a good idea for me to put together some sort of inventory of my better items.
Thanks,
Josh
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I too have insurance through Hugh Wood; have had for many years. Never heard of any inventory requirement, only appraisals needed for any item worth over $25,000. I am in no danger of having to deal with that requirement.
I do keep a detailed inventory of my many albums (singles, plate blocks, etc.), using a series of Excel spreadsheets. I also keep an inventory my certificates. Among the things recorded are Scott catalog numbers, condition, NH vs. hinged, Mint vs. unused vs. used, catalog value at the time of purchase, price paid, and seller name and date.
Note that at some point when you sell your collection, you'll need to be able to document what you paid for things vs. what you sold them for so you can calculate your Long Term Capital Gains. The IRS will consider the selling price to be straight income otherwise and you'll pay a much higher tax rate than you will with LTCGs. If your collection is valued north of $50,000 you should have a talk with your CPA for guidance.
To back up my inventory - which can be faked - I scan and keep copies of my certificates and of all album pages holding any stamp worth in excess of $100, just to prove they actually existed prior to loss. Hopefully, I never have to use them other than as examples or for bragging rights.
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"Note that at some point when you sell your collection, you'll need to be able to document what you paid for things vs. what you sold them for so you can calculate your Long Term Capital Gains. The IRS will consider the selling price to be straight income otherwise and you'll pay a much higher tax rate than you will with LTCGs."
I am sure that thought is on the mind of all those that inherited collections and trying to sell for big bucks.
As I understand it, the cost value of the collection is set when inherited - not the original purchase price.
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"As I understand it, the cost value of the collection is set when inherited - not the original purchase price."
I would think the original purchase price would be irrelevant. If a collector bought an item and kept it for 30, 40 or 50 years, inflation over this period would be so significant that calculating actual gains or losses would be all but impossible.
Furthermore, I see no reason why one would need to pay tax on stamps that were purchased with after tax money and then were re-sold.
If capital gains are assessed on those, I would immediately claim capital losses on all my other hobbies where the money spent is unrecoverable - waders, jackets, fishing hooks, lines, gas to get to the river and back, lunches, depreciation on fishing rods, reels, vehicle, cameras........well thinking about it, the taxman will be way better off to keep quiet.
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From the IRS (US). I am sure this is targeted at large inheritances.
Answer:
To determine if the sale of inherited property is taxable, you must first determine your basis in the property. The basis of property inherited from a decedent is generally one of the following:
The fair market value (FMV) of the property on the date of the decedent's death (whether or not the executor of the estate files an estate tax return (Form 706, United States Estate (and Generation-Skipping Transfer) Tax Return)).
The FMV of the property on the alternate valuation date, but only if the executor of the estate files an estate tax return (Form 706) and elects to use the alternate valuation on that return. See the Instructions for Form 706.
For information on the FMV of inherited property on the date of the decedent’s death, contact the executor of the decedent’s estate. Also, note that in 2015, Congress passed a new law that, in certain circumstances, requires the recipient’s basis in certain inherited property to be consistent with the value of the property as finally determined for Federal estate tax purposes. Check What's New - Estate and Gift Tax for updates on final rules being promulgated to implement the new law.
If you or your spouse gave the property to the decedent within one year before the decedent's death, see Publication 551, Basis of Assets.
Report the sale on Schedule D (Form 1040), Capital Gains and Losses and on Form 8949, Sales and Other Dispositions of Capital Assets:
If you sell the property for more than your basis, you have a taxable gain.
For information on how to report the sale on Schedule D, see Publication 550, Investment Income and Expenses.
Under the new law passed by Congress in 2015, an accuracy-related penalty may apply if an individual reporting the sale of certain inherited property uses a basis in excess of that property’s final value for Federal estate tax purposes. Again, check What's New - Estate and Gift Tax for updates on final rules being promulgated to implement the new law.
For estates of decedents who died in 2010, basis is generally determined as described above. However, the executor of a decedent who died in 2010 may elect out of the Federal estate tax rules for 2010 and use the modified carryover of basis rules.
Under this special election, the basis of property inherited from a decedent who died during 2010 is generally the lesser of:
The adjusted basis of the decedent, or
The FMV of the property at the date of the decedent’s death.
Under this special election for estates of decedents who died in 2010, the executor of the decedent’s estate may increase the basis of certain property that beneficiaries acquire from a decedent by up to $1.3 million (plus certain unused built-in losses and loss carryovers, if applicable), but the increased basis cannot exceed the FMV of the property at the date of the decedent’s death. The executor may also increase the basis of certain property that the surviving spouse acquires from a decedent by up to an additional $3 million, but the increased basis cannot exceed the FMV of the property at the date of the decedent’s death. The executor of the decedent’s estate is required to provide a statement to all heirs listing the decedent’s basis in the property, the FMV of the property on the date of the decedent’s death, and the additional basis allocated to the property. Contact the executor to determine what the basis of the asset is.
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Note that my comments regarding tax liabilities stated
""Note that at some point when you sell your collection, you'll need to be able to document what you paid for things vs. what you sold them for so you can calculate your Long Term Capital Gains. The IRS will consider the selling price to be straight income otherwise and you'll pay a much higher tax rate than you will with LTCGs.""
"when YOU sell..." does NOT refer to your heirs selling your collection that they inherited and for which they received a set-up in basis price. It refers to you, the collector, selling said collection during your lifetime.
Hopefully that make the issue clear.
Both capital gains and capital losses require documentation of the type the IRS will accept.
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02:06:52am
" .... Hopefully that make the issue clear. ...."
Hahahahaha !
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This is why many collection sales go unreported.
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"This is why many collection sales go unreported."
Amen to that.
From what I know , I am also supposed to report any revenues from mushroom picking. You can guess how that goes.
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"This is why many collection sales go unreported."
Think about it. For the most part, stamp collections are unrecorded assets. Just the discussion here shows that most folks don't have a complete report of what they have, so neither does "govment".
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For some light relief:-
The Goon Show:- Insurance The White Man's Burden
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4rXbaxCxnA4
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i guess the large auction houses leave it up to the individual...i have never heard mention of taxes being deducted from friends who have sold valuable collections.
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Don't auction houses have to report transactions over $xxx, much like casinos and lottery programs rat you out for your winnings? In 2022, eBay will send a 1099 to sellers who make over $600 (and also report that fact to the IRS, of course...)
I freelance for a publishing company who sends me a 1099 each year, as they consider me an independent contractor. They don't withhold taxes on my behalf, so I am responsible for quarterly payments to the IRS.
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I read through most of this .... I might have missed it but does anyone have a spreadsheet already created for US?
Looking for a spreadsheet for US only say Scott numbers 1 through 900?
Why recreate the wheel if someone has a nice one already and is willing to share.
Thanks in advance.
Ernie
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Ernie:
I've got what you requested in Excel. Small example below. Email me if you are interested.
Bob
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Addendum:
In addition to an inventory, I strongly urge you to make and keep high-resolution scans of album pages that contain high-catalogue-value stamps as proof they actually exist in your collection. Each collector must decide for themselves what constitutes "high".
I also suggest doing the same for all certs you acquire.
Note that an option for APS members, you can get insurance for your collection through Hugh Wood Inc. for individual items valued up to $25,000. Beyond that value, they must be insured separately.
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It adds up over time and before you know it the number is bigger than what you thought. But you know there's real value there because alot of time there was an underbidder right there.
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@uboatnut
Thank you for the great spreadsheet. Much appreciated. I want to do a 'full inventory" on my US collection.
Update to follow.
Ernie
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I have been using CLZ for my comic book collection - to both track and value things, and it works great. Is their anything similar for stamp collections?
Josh
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Hello All,
I just received a quote for insurance on my collection and it seems quite reasonable. However, one of the caveats is a complete record of your collection must exist and be maintained. That is one thing I have not been too good about, plus I have a whole room for stamps.
I am just curious how others keep records of their collections, and how you keep up to date?
Thanks,
Josh
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re: Complete Record of Collection for Insurance
I probably have the same problem as you in trying to keep everything up to date. I try to scan album pages and keep spreadsheets current, but that takes time and inclination! It also takes time away from stamps! I try, but it never really is completely up to date.
I should scan the pages. I just need to figure out why VueScan won't scan an entire page.
Peter
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04:11:12am
re: Complete Record of Collection for Insurance
I have built over time a complete database of all stamps I have and update at each purchase. I am using Filemaker and record the stamp number, in Y&T, Scott and Michel. It also has the purchase price, the latest price on Stamporama and other Web sites. I do not care of the catalog price, considering that the sales are a much better gauge. I do not fill all the fields, except the Y&T number. All the other fields are filled on a need basis.
Nebertheless, once in a while I purchase a stamp already in my collection. I suspect I am not the only one in the world doing that.
Enjoy and keep safe, Michel
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re: Complete Record of Collection for Insurance
i maintain my collection in StampManage and keep a scan of every album page. It adds a little overhead to the collecting but the images make an excellent quick reference. It would also help to keep purchase records.
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re: Complete Record of Collection for Insurance
I have my collection insured through the Wood Agency (APS's Program). Their pricing is very reasonable and there isn't a record keeping requirement as you describe it. Regardless I keep a detailed record of my collection.
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re: Complete Record of Collection for Insurance
Have to admit that I have not got separate coverage for my stamps, other than a few thousand under the general home policy.
Really cannot be bothered with scanning every page, itemizing lists. How do you ever put a value on boxes of unsoaked Machins (probably 10-20,000) apart from the envelopes of soaked sorted/unsorted. Stock books full of duplicates, and then the albums.
If the lot went up in smoke tomorrow would I bother to start again, don't think so, maybe if a lot younger with more years left to live.
My pleasure comes from the soaking, sorting, possible finds and the searching for missing items, making up pages/albums and generally messing around with my accumulation.
I regularly donate to our local club, especially the countries that are not on my collecting horizon, they bring in a few bucks for the club. Holocaust stamps has had a few thousand Machins to count.
I do understand that philatelists who have valuable stamps and rare collections (such as Rob, down under) would probably need coverage, but in that case would you insure for cost or replacement, bearing in mind that the loss of a rare stamp makes another of the same ilk even more valuable.
My stamps are my hobby, especially when it's minus 40 and blowing a blizzard, there are no other collectors in the family, so when I'm gone it's gone and I shall not be worrying.
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re: Complete Record of Collection for Insurance
I have an insurance policy for my collection, added as a rider years ago. I've never been told what my responsibilities were in this regard, but if I were to lose my collection I am 100% certain that my insurer would cover 0% of its value. I don't even know what it's worth! A lot.
I've spent the bulk of my spending money on my collection for the last 40 years or so, but as a record keeper I am hopeless. I have covers that I have spent a small fortune on, and others that I have been given as gifts that are worth upwards of a hundred dollars or more. I often spend more on shipping costs than the value of the stamps and covers that are being shipped. Much of my collection consists of stamps and covers that cost good money to buy but have little if any commercial value. A stamp dealer friend of mine once told me that she does no more than glance through album pages, searching for the odd stamp that might have significant value. She doesn't even consider assessing catalogue value in more than extremely rough, eyeball terms.
My bottom line is this, or these:
• I cannot place any monetary value on a collection that primarily has, for me, recreational & educational value.
• Most of my collection is worth what other collectors might pay for it, not what an insurance company would pay for its loss.
• I don't really care. I enjoy collecting stamps, covers, and postcards. I would not enjoy a single moment of trying to evaluate my collection in monetary terms. I tend not to do things I don't enjoy, so I won't be doing that. If I die before my wife, my collection will become the problem of a stamp dealer, and my wife will enjoy any cash that it turns into.
Now you'll have to excuse me. I have to go on-line to look for an Australian booklet to add to my Vietnam War collection.
Bob
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re: Complete Record of Collection for Insurance
I do not think scanning and inventory is counter to enjoying stamps. I use StampManage to ensure I do not buy something twice. I scan since I can use as a reference as well. I do not track attention to specific value.
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re: Complete Record of Collection for Insurance
Angore said, "I do not think scanning and inventory is counter to enjoying stamps."
I scan many of my stamps and covers, but mostly to enable me to share them with other collectors and occasionally to "post process" an image to make it clearer. And while I enjoy that process, I am not concerned about ever recovering the the cost of my collection. A dealer may tell me that a given stamp, cover, or postcard is valuable in his or her eyes, but I, thank you, will decide whether the same stamps, cover, or postcards have any extrinsic intrinsic value.
Some covers in my collection may have zero value, or great cash value, to anyone else, but they are so valuable to me that I can't even consider selling them regardless of how they might enhance my bank account.
Bob
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re: Complete Record of Collection for Insurance
I'm with you, Bob!
My collection to me is priceless and I enjoy working with it and viewing it every so often. I just can't think of getting rid of it when my time approaches - now down to 4 years!
My brother, if he is still around when I've gone, will look at it with disdain, especially if he can gain access to all my records and see just what I have spent on these little pieces of coloured paper (his description!) and how much time spent on it. It's kept me sane throughout this pandemic!
But I like computers and stamps, the two go so well together, which keeps me even busier! Good thing I am retired!
Peter
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re: Complete Record of Collection for Insurance
For those of you keeping your inventories...
Make sure you have a copy outside of your home! So the inventory isn't paper or on a hard drive that will burn up or be stolen with the stamps! I know folks who hadn't thought of this step!
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re: Complete Record of Collection for Insurance
Very good advice. I have created an access database to store all my stamp records. I backup my database and data both locally and to the cloud. Additionally, periodically I place a flash drive of my back-ups with other important papers in my safety deposit box.
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re: Complete Record of Collection for Insurance
Thanks for all the advice. I am thinking I should at least start taking pictures of my better albums and keep them in the "cloud".
Does StampManage or other software handle when you collect more than one of a stamp? Example I have 3 used copies of the Baby Zep, plus a cover.
Thanks,
Josh
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re: Complete Record of Collection for Insurance
For StampManage, yes.
StampManage has a master reference database. You add entries to collections (multiple ones) and can add as many of the same Scott number stamps you want. They can have same details (Mint, Used, etc) or different. If you delete something from a collection, it does not affect the reference database.
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re: Complete Record of Collection for Insurance
I have catalogued my collection using a programme called StampCAT. Unfortunately it is no longer sold but the Swedish developers still maintain updates. It is one of the best programmes I have come across and have been using it for many years. So I do enter all stamps into this programme which certainly gives me lists so that I don't duplicate purchases, which still does happen! I can attach scanned images of stamps to the records in StampCAT and do so for many commemorative stamps, particularly those that form a part of my collection 'A Philatelic History of the Royal Navy' which is published in WordPress. As for insurance, can't see the reason for insuring as I doubt it would be worth the effort to supply catalogue lists and values which very likely would not be covered for a total loss, although I am sure that if you are prepared to pay a high enough premium you can insure anything! I do get great pleasure from collecting stamps, covers, booklets and I do enjoy entering this data into my stamp programme, keeps me busy as a retired chap. What happens to my collection after I have passed on, well not something I am particularly concerned about, just hope that my daughter will look after the collection even though I don't imagine she will be interested in continuing with collecting.
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re: Complete Record of Collection for Insurance
I have a very nerdy Excel database with every stamp of "value" - number condition and Value (2010 Scott catalog), and page and book placement in my now 61 Lindner Binders.
A labor of love but not for the faint of heart (or eyesight). The numerous US duplicates - I don't bother - I just place them by denomination in binders.
My insurance company did not believe the "value" but my records persuaded them to cover.
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re: Complete Record of Collection for Insurance
Great question!
However, I don't expect my collection to be lost in a disaster covered by insurance.
The more likely disaster is I die and my NOK have to deal with the collection disposition.
The easy answer is document everything significant so the Executor can dispose of it appropriately.
I hate spending my time on Earth putting detailed info in the various stamp inventory programs. I enjoy the collecting hunt, not inventorying what I get.
I'm now dead. You didn't care about my collection while I was alive, why the concern now. when you could have talked with me when I was alive?
Deal with it at your own risk, you inherited it ... if you don't care when I was active, neither do I at this point.
I took the one or two stamps I am REALLY attached to with me. =0)
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re: Complete Record of Collection for Insurance
I did the kids a favor and did not include our stamps in the family trust...they will have enough to deal with 55-60 years of clutter. I have no interest in selling the stamps in my collection...i try to sell off duplicates and stamps i do not collect, i have rifles and shotguns i have not used in years...i have no interest in selling them ..the kids have no interest in guns..someone will get a bargain. I have spoken !
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re: Complete Record of Collection for Insurance
What Phil said.
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re: Complete Record of Collection for Insurance
"However, I don't expect my collection to be lost in a disaster covered by insurance."
In view of the recent tornados in Kentucky and nearby states, ya never know! Of course the loss of life comes first, but you have to wonder how many collectibles, from stamps to antiques and old cars were lost in the storms.
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re: Complete Record of Collection for Insurance
Tom, i think about it every time there is a disaster..how many collectors or collections lost?
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re: Complete Record of Collection for Insurance
I had a package coming from California and wondered if it was lost in the storm. It arrived last night.
For those that do not care about their collectors after their passing and know no heirs will care, consider donating it to a good cause - philatelic or otherwise.
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re: Complete Record of Collection for Insurance
I am certain the APS gets many such donations...i have purchased from them on trips to Bellefonte.
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re: Complete Record of Collection for Insurance
Josh:
I may be out of date on this, but as far as I recall, there are 2 major insurance agencies that have specialized insurance for stamps and other philatelic items.
One is the plan that is offered through the APS, managed by Hugh Wood Inc. In addition to being pretty affordable, you do not need to do a complete inventory of your collection. Again, if I'm recalling correctly, you only had to declare individual items that were valued over either $1000 or $10,000. (Just can't remember which threshold, although I think it might have been $10,000, because I have a couple of items that would be valued over $1000.) This policy requires membership in the APS.
There is also another firm that was nearly as competitive, and did not require APS membership. Unfortunately, I cannot recall its name at the moment. I Googled a little bit to see if my memory could be refreshed, and I *think* it was Collectibles Insurance Agency. I see one company with a similar name, but slightly different, and the logo doesn't look like what I recall, but this could just be some corporate changes. I just don't know. Again, that plan also did not require a complete inventory -- just a declaration over items over a certain high value. (It looks like it might be $25,000.)
Some links:
https://stamps.org/services/insurance
https://hwinternational.com/us/industries/fine-art-collectibles/fine-art-collection-insurance/stamp-insurance/
If I read between the lines, you may be able to get a slightly different policy through Hugh Wood for stamps, as they mention stamps coverage on their website without referencing the APS.
And this *may* be the other agency I was thinking of:
https://collectinsure.com/other-collections/
Perhaps someone will remember the name of the company with the alternate coverage?
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re: Complete Record of Collection for Insurance
Dave,
It is the APS/Hugh Wood plan, and they mentioned this requirement with the quote.
Thanks,
Josh
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re: Complete Record of Collection for Insurance
That they now need a complete inventory?
If so, this is a very big change.
Edited to add:
I take it's not just a description of your collections, with a specific declaration of items above a certain amount?
Would you be able to share with us the verbiage of what they are asking for?
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re: Complete Record of Collection for Insurance
I wonder if there is a collector on this board who made a claim for having his or her stamp collection destroyed and what the outcome was.
My understanding is that an insurance company will send someone to verify that insured items were on the property and were damaged - like the burnt house itself, vehicles, motorcycles, appliances - mostly items that have metal components and are not destroyed beyond recognition.
When it comes to a stamp collection, who will know what was really there?
I can have a stamp collection (or a single stamp) worth millions, insured it for millions, then hid it in a bank safe box and declared it burnt in a fire. Am I going to get the insurance money?? Nobody would ever be able to prove the collection did not burn.
I have mentioned my collection to my property insurer , and although they told me it is best to keep a good record of what I have, they never cared to look at what I actually had.
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re: Complete Record of Collection for Insurance
I was not aware that Hugh Wood required a complete inventory. They had focused on high value items but still think a good inventory, receipts, and other supporting material etc. would help your claim if you have to submit one.
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re: Complete Record of Collection for Insurance
The plan I have is indeed the Hugh Woods / APS plan. I am not endorsing this plan and each collector should shop around and find what is best for them.
I have had this plan for about ten years. There has never been an inventory requirement. They sell coverage in blocks of $1,000 and I have increased the amount of my coverage several times over the ten years I have had the policy. Their phone rep graciously takes note of the amount of my requested increase, quotes the cost of the additional premium, and tells me to add it to my invoice and submit a check. Period! Easy! And their rates are quite reasonable.
I think you need to be dues paying member of the APS to take advantage of this plan, however.
David
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re: Complete Record of Collection for Insurance
I received the policy in the mail. I think the verbiage "complete record of your collection must exist and be maintained" was on the slip I sent with the payment, as I do not see elsewhere. Either way, it is probably a good idea for me to put together some sort of inventory of my better items.
Thanks,
Josh
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11:18:19pm
re: Complete Record of Collection for Insurance
I too have insurance through Hugh Wood; have had for many years. Never heard of any inventory requirement, only appraisals needed for any item worth over $25,000. I am in no danger of having to deal with that requirement.
I do keep a detailed inventory of my many albums (singles, plate blocks, etc.), using a series of Excel spreadsheets. I also keep an inventory my certificates. Among the things recorded are Scott catalog numbers, condition, NH vs. hinged, Mint vs. unused vs. used, catalog value at the time of purchase, price paid, and seller name and date.
Note that at some point when you sell your collection, you'll need to be able to document what you paid for things vs. what you sold them for so you can calculate your Long Term Capital Gains. The IRS will consider the selling price to be straight income otherwise and you'll pay a much higher tax rate than you will with LTCGs. If your collection is valued north of $50,000 you should have a talk with your CPA for guidance.
To back up my inventory - which can be faked - I scan and keep copies of my certificates and of all album pages holding any stamp worth in excess of $100, just to prove they actually existed prior to loss. Hopefully, I never have to use them other than as examples or for bragging rights.
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re: Complete Record of Collection for Insurance
"Note that at some point when you sell your collection, you'll need to be able to document what you paid for things vs. what you sold them for so you can calculate your Long Term Capital Gains. The IRS will consider the selling price to be straight income otherwise and you'll pay a much higher tax rate than you will with LTCGs."
I am sure that thought is on the mind of all those that inherited collections and trying to sell for big bucks.
As I understand it, the cost value of the collection is set when inherited - not the original purchase price.
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re: Complete Record of Collection for Insurance
"As I understand it, the cost value of the collection is set when inherited - not the original purchase price."
I would think the original purchase price would be irrelevant. If a collector bought an item and kept it for 30, 40 or 50 years, inflation over this period would be so significant that calculating actual gains or losses would be all but impossible.
Furthermore, I see no reason why one would need to pay tax on stamps that were purchased with after tax money and then were re-sold.
If capital gains are assessed on those, I would immediately claim capital losses on all my other hobbies where the money spent is unrecoverable - waders, jackets, fishing hooks, lines, gas to get to the river and back, lunches, depreciation on fishing rods, reels, vehicle, cameras........well thinking about it, the taxman will be way better off to keep quiet.
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re: Complete Record of Collection for Insurance
From the IRS (US). I am sure this is targeted at large inheritances.
Answer:
To determine if the sale of inherited property is taxable, you must first determine your basis in the property. The basis of property inherited from a decedent is generally one of the following:
The fair market value (FMV) of the property on the date of the decedent's death (whether or not the executor of the estate files an estate tax return (Form 706, United States Estate (and Generation-Skipping Transfer) Tax Return)).
The FMV of the property on the alternate valuation date, but only if the executor of the estate files an estate tax return (Form 706) and elects to use the alternate valuation on that return. See the Instructions for Form 706.
For information on the FMV of inherited property on the date of the decedent’s death, contact the executor of the decedent’s estate. Also, note that in 2015, Congress passed a new law that, in certain circumstances, requires the recipient’s basis in certain inherited property to be consistent with the value of the property as finally determined for Federal estate tax purposes. Check What's New - Estate and Gift Tax for updates on final rules being promulgated to implement the new law.
If you or your spouse gave the property to the decedent within one year before the decedent's death, see Publication 551, Basis of Assets.
Report the sale on Schedule D (Form 1040), Capital Gains and Losses and on Form 8949, Sales and Other Dispositions of Capital Assets:
If you sell the property for more than your basis, you have a taxable gain.
For information on how to report the sale on Schedule D, see Publication 550, Investment Income and Expenses.
Under the new law passed by Congress in 2015, an accuracy-related penalty may apply if an individual reporting the sale of certain inherited property uses a basis in excess of that property’s final value for Federal estate tax purposes. Again, check What's New - Estate and Gift Tax for updates on final rules being promulgated to implement the new law.
For estates of decedents who died in 2010, basis is generally determined as described above. However, the executor of a decedent who died in 2010 may elect out of the Federal estate tax rules for 2010 and use the modified carryover of basis rules.
Under this special election, the basis of property inherited from a decedent who died during 2010 is generally the lesser of:
The adjusted basis of the decedent, or
The FMV of the property at the date of the decedent’s death.
Under this special election for estates of decedents who died in 2010, the executor of the decedent’s estate may increase the basis of certain property that beneficiaries acquire from a decedent by up to $1.3 million (plus certain unused built-in losses and loss carryovers, if applicable), but the increased basis cannot exceed the FMV of the property at the date of the decedent’s death. The executor may also increase the basis of certain property that the surviving spouse acquires from a decedent by up to an additional $3 million, but the increased basis cannot exceed the FMV of the property at the date of the decedent’s death. The executor of the decedent’s estate is required to provide a statement to all heirs listing the decedent’s basis in the property, the FMV of the property on the date of the decedent’s death, and the additional basis allocated to the property. Contact the executor to determine what the basis of the asset is.
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04:12:06pm
re: Complete Record of Collection for Insurance
Note that my comments regarding tax liabilities stated
""Note that at some point when you sell your collection, you'll need to be able to document what you paid for things vs. what you sold them for so you can calculate your Long Term Capital Gains. The IRS will consider the selling price to be straight income otherwise and you'll pay a much higher tax rate than you will with LTCGs.""
"when YOU sell..." does NOT refer to your heirs selling your collection that they inherited and for which they received a set-up in basis price. It refers to you, the collector, selling said collection during your lifetime.
Hopefully that make the issue clear.
Both capital gains and capital losses require documentation of the type the IRS will accept.
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Silence in the face of adversity is the father of complicity and collusion, the first cousins of conspiracy..
19 Dec 2021
02:06:52am
re: Complete Record of Collection for Insurance
" .... Hopefully that make the issue clear. ...."
Hahahahaha !
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re: Complete Record of Collection for Insurance
This is why many collection sales go unreported.
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re: Complete Record of Collection for Insurance
"This is why many collection sales go unreported."
Amen to that.
From what I know , I am also supposed to report any revenues from mushroom picking. You can guess how that goes.
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re: Complete Record of Collection for Insurance
"This is why many collection sales go unreported."
Think about it. For the most part, stamp collections are unrecorded assets. Just the discussion here shows that most folks don't have a complete report of what they have, so neither does "govment".
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10:13:16am
Approvals
re: Complete Record of Collection for Insurance
For some light relief:-
The Goon Show:- Insurance The White Man's Burden
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4rXbaxCxnA4
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re: Complete Record of Collection for Insurance
i guess the large auction houses leave it up to the individual...i have never heard mention of taxes being deducted from friends who have sold valuable collections.
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re: Complete Record of Collection for Insurance
Don't auction houses have to report transactions over $xxx, much like casinos and lottery programs rat you out for your winnings? In 2022, eBay will send a 1099 to sellers who make over $600 (and also report that fact to the IRS, of course...)
I freelance for a publishing company who sends me a 1099 each year, as they consider me an independent contractor. They don't withhold taxes on my behalf, so I am responsible for quarterly payments to the IRS.
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re: Complete Record of Collection for Insurance
I read through most of this .... I might have missed it but does anyone have a spreadsheet already created for US?
Looking for a spreadsheet for US only say Scott numbers 1 through 900?
Why recreate the wheel if someone has a nice one already and is willing to share.
Thanks in advance.
Ernie
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12:16:49am
re: Complete Record of Collection for Insurance
Ernie:
I've got what you requested in Excel. Small example below. Email me if you are interested.
Bob
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11:50:59am
re: Complete Record of Collection for Insurance
Addendum:
In addition to an inventory, I strongly urge you to make and keep high-resolution scans of album pages that contain high-catalogue-value stamps as proof they actually exist in your collection. Each collector must decide for themselves what constitutes "high".
I also suggest doing the same for all certs you acquire.
Note that an option for APS members, you can get insurance for your collection through Hugh Wood Inc. for individual items valued up to $25,000. Beyond that value, they must be insured separately.
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re: Complete Record of Collection for Insurance
It adds up over time and before you know it the number is bigger than what you thought. But you know there's real value there because alot of time there was an underbidder right there.
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re: Complete Record of Collection for Insurance
@uboatnut
Thank you for the great spreadsheet. Much appreciated. I want to do a 'full inventory" on my US collection.
Update to follow.
Ernie
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re: Complete Record of Collection for Insurance
I have been using CLZ for my comic book collection - to both track and value things, and it works great. Is their anything similar for stamp collections?
Josh
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