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Sales, Swaps, Auction & Approvals/Approvals Disc. : Book Organization Kudos

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rrraphy
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Retired Ap. Book Mod, Pres Golden Gate Stamp Club, Hi Tech Consultant
27 Oct 2021
12:41:57pm
A topic that never dies...how organized should Approval Books be?
From every stamp with Cat # and year to floor droppings, I see all kind of books, and you know my preference, even if prices are higher (but there are seldom any differences...)

Just came across a book by HolocaustStamps that navigated well the middle road. Stamps were grouped by Year. Turns out some of the years were right in my target for expansion of my collected years, and SOR offers the very nice feature of buying the whole page! One click per page...voila!

Please sellers, if you don't want to take the extra effort of indicating cat numbers (and I understand why), could you at least attempt to group the stamps in some form of order, or list them by year or by narrow range of years per page. or by country if you post worldwide books...it would work just as well. Thanks in advance.

rrr...

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Jansimon
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28 Oct 2021
08:58:58am

Auctions - Approvals
re: Book Organization Kudos

I try to organize my books as much as possible, but sometimes it works better than other times. For instance, some countries have an output that wildly varies in catalogue value. In those cases I cannot list things all chronologically. In other cases, the stamps all have equal value, or I can't be bothered to check them all (because I did a good job purchasing the lot, or just want to get rid of the stamps) and I just put them in the books. In such cases speed wins over accuracy. As a bonus, there is a bigger chance I have overlooked something and the buyer might find something interesting, but he has to do some extra work for it. Happy
Anyway, I understand what you mean and do my best to create logically ordered books.

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Harvey
I think, therefore I am - I think!
28 Oct 2021
09:48:34am
re: Book Organization Kudos

I would love it if all books were in order by year with Scott's numbers, but that is ridiculous! I would be happy if countries are together and in some sort of order without much stamp overlap and the stamps clear enough and large enough for me to tell what they are. Most sellers do that much, I just try to ignore those that don't. Of course, since I collect by Scott which recognizes watermark varieties, there are many cases when I can't buy your stamps because I don't know the watermark or can't tell the perforation. I live with that and the sellers have to as well. Most of you do an excellent job with your books and the few that don't...well, I just don't buy from your books very often. I hope I haven't offended any sellers, most of you do an amazing job and some of you actually go beyond what is expected!

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Brechinite
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Neddie Seagoon from The Telegoons
28 Oct 2021
10:33:29am

Auctions - Approvals
re: Book Organization Kudos

Quote:

"Scott which recognizes watermark varieties, there are many cases when I can't buy your stamps because I don't know the watermark or can't tell the perforation."



You may find that both the "better" watermark varieties and perf varieties are listed in the auctions rather than in an Approval Book.

It also happens that a lot of catalogues do not list these "varieties" so sellers may not be aware that there are varieties of watermark and perforations.

So just keep looking.

"Whit’s fur ye’ll no go by ye!.
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amsd
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Editor, Seal News; contributor, JuicyHeads
28 Oct 2021
11:10:22am
re: Book Organization Kudos

if you promise to buy it, i'll list it anyway you like

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HolocaustStamps
Thank you for your donation to The Holocaust Stamps Project.
28 Oct 2021
10:12:31pm

Auctions
re: Book Organization Kudos

Thanks for the shout-out Ralph.

I've been on the opposite side of your argument: for cheap Approval items adding catalogue numbers is a negative-revenue activity for sellers (well, at least for me).

However, I did find changing the format of my Vario pages recently to allow almost any size/shape of stamps to be combined in a single page then allowed me to spend a bit more time (not overwhelming) to sort by issue year at least.

Hopefully I can continue this and get even more people buying to support the project (I like your idea of buying whole pages - hopefully it will catch on).

Cheers, Dave.

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Brechinite
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Neddie Seagoon from The Telegoons
30 Oct 2021
06:52:16pm

Auctions - Approvals
re: Book Organization Kudos

It can be difficult to list in year order as the limits imposed on the seller restricts this.

Keep in mind a 100 stamp minimum and a 24 page maximum.

For example take 35 incomplete sets of 4 over 20 years.

The range of "price" of an individual stamp could be, 10 cents, 15 cents, 20 cents, 25 cents, 30 cents, 35 cents, 40 cents, 45 cents, 50 cents, 55 cents, 60 cents, 65 cents, 70 cents, 75 cents, 80 cents, 85 cents, 90 cents, 95 cents, $1.00, $1,10, $ 1.20. (Of course it can go higher)

In this case there are 21 price points meaning 21 pages are required,

On page one you may have 10 stamps from 10 different years, on page 2 you may have 10 stamps from 8 different years and 8 different years from page 1. On page 3 you may have 3 stamps from 3 years not on page one 2 not on page 2 but one on page two.
You may only have 2 stamps on each of the following pages which means you fall short on the 100 stamp limit even if you add 3 extra pages and of course nothing is in year order ( eg 1976 on page 10 12 & 14, 1972 on page 11 12 and 13 and 1968 on page 2 12 and 16)

I have tried to simplify the example but this is what sellers come across when trying to put together an Approval Book. It can be more complex than people think.

I have said it before and I will repeat myself. ALL members should pick 100 stamps of their duplicates and try and put an approval book together in country order, year order, price order, scan the pages and list it and just see how complex and time consuming it is.
(No cheating by taking stamps out of a stockbook that is already in order)


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BenFranklin1902
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Tom in Exton, PA
06 Nov 2021
01:44:13pm
re: Book Organization Kudos

It's slave labor! Big Grin

I've done a few books of US First Day Covers and put them in date order. That's the best I'm gonna do!

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Brechinite
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Neddie Seagoon from The Telegoons
06 Nov 2021
04:23:54pm

Auctions - Approvals
re: Book Organization Kudos

I can only say:-


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4EkMkjQab_E

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Harvey
I think, therefore I am - I think!
01 Jan 2022
06:44:24pm
re: Book Organization Kudos

I just want to make a comment about "mixture books". I always check them out because sometimes real treasures can be hidden in there. But... would it be possible with maybe about a half hour's work to keep countries together? I was looking through a book where all the prices were the same, so to me there seems to be no real need to separate countries all over the book. I always look through these books for countries like Russia and Poland. I was just looking at a book where Poland seemed to scattered all over the place. This seems like it should be fairly easy to avoid, but maybe it takes more work than I think. Just a comment and if it is a lot of work to do I apologize!!

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Brechinite
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Neddie Seagoon from The Telegoons
02 Jan 2022
06:42:36am

Auctions - Approvals
re: Book Organization Kudos

Currently approximately 10% of all books are classified as "Worldwide". The price per item ranges from 4 cents to several dollars. The average appears to be 10 cents.

What can be deduced from this is that these books fill a need for some buyers.

90% of the remaining book categories give a wide choice of countries and topics.

How all these books are laid out is up to the Seller.

Sellers are wide and varied in their capabilities and knowledge. Some have time constraints and find it easier to put up a "Worldwide" Book all at the same price rather than individually search through catalogue numbers, values etc.


Quote:

"I always check them out because sometimes real treasures can be hidden in there."



These Books may contain some bargains and rewards the Buyer who is prepared to take the time to seek them out. If a Buyer is not prepared to spend the time going through these books I have one suggestion for them....Do not look at these books.

One should always be careful what they wish for. More work for the seller, more detailed requirements for the buyer will lead to higher prices and the disappearance of the "bargains" in these "Worldwide" Books.

I sometimes feel that peoples expectations of the Approval Books system here goes way beyond the principle behind the introduction of the system.
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Harvey
I think, therefore I am - I think!
02 Jan 2022
08:06:32am
re: Book Organization Kudos

I didn't say "bargains", I said "treasures", a big difference. If I had to pay an extra couple cents because the seller organized a little bit, at least by country, I wouldn't have a problem with that. By the way, there are a few sellers I only look at if the mood is right. If the book is more frustrating than fun it defeats the purpose of the hobby. It isn't much fun looking through some books so I will follow Ian's advice and not bother.

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Brechinite
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Neddie Seagoon from The Telegoons
02 Jan 2022
10:37:53am

Auctions - Approvals
re: Book Organization Kudos

Treasures? Bargains? To some they are the same thing.

What treasures/bargains are to one collector are "Floor Sweepings" to another!

That is the diversity of our hobby.

Quote:

"I have said it before and I will repeat myself. ALL members should pick 100 stamps of their duplicates and try and put an approval book together in country order, year order, price order, scan the pages and list it and just see how complex and time consuming it is.
(No cheating by taking stamps out of a stockbook that is already in order)"



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Harvey
I think, therefore I am - I think!
02 Jan 2022
12:21:04pm
re: Book Organization Kudos

Ian, honestly, I don't ask for much. All I would like to see is countries together! I really don't think it would take long. I look through most of the mixture books and Country XXX is scattered through the book, a few on each page. I have a pretty good idea who does this and won't check their offerings anymore. I'm sure others are doing the same. I don't care if they are numbered, in alphabetical order or in order by year - just keep countries together within price ranges. If the prices vary in the book, and a lot of mixture books have all stamps the same price, just keep the countries together within the price. I see cases where the same stamp is in three different places in the book and there's no real excuse for that (in my opinion). Ian, your books are immaculate and well organized and a joy to buy from. To sellers of these "mixture books", how about a minimal amount of basic organization. Please at least keep series together within prices and repeated stamps should be together. How about a couple very basic rules for the books??? I am expressing my opinion only, please don't unduly criticize!!

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Brechinite
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Neddie Seagoon from The Telegoons
02 Jan 2022
01:31:38pm

Auctions - Approvals
re: Book Organization Kudos

Yes you are expressing your opinion as am I!

The majority of the time that I post on this platform I only have one goal:-

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yRloeL9Zpt8

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Brechinite
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Neddie Seagoon from The Telegoons
02 Jan 2022
01:42:19pm

Auctions - Approvals
re: Book Organization Kudos

Quote:

"How about a couple very basic rules for the books???"



There are (see Approval Rules)

If one has a complaint about a book then one should make that complaint to the appropriate authority.

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Harvey
I think, therefore I am - I think!
02 Jan 2022
02:12:33pm
re: Book Organization Kudos

I re-read the rules and there are several that are broken on a regular basis. I've never been a complainer, I guess I assume the seller will read the post eventually and clean up his/her act. By the way, while you're laughing about my comment about "not being a complainer", I do complain but I usually don't run to authority figures to do it. I guess I'll just stay away from sellers whose material I don't like. There's only a few, most of you are fantastic!!

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Brechinite
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Neddie Seagoon from The Telegoons
02 Jan 2022
02:51:47pm

Auctions - Approvals
re: Book Organization Kudos

Quote:

"most of you are fantastic!!"



I can heartily agree that most Buyers and Sellers are fantastic.
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rrraphy
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Retired Ap. Book Mod, Pres Golden Gate Stamp Club, Hi Tech Consultant
02 Jan 2022
06:27:08pm
re: Book Organization Kudos

Many of the recent Worldwide Books are crap...floor droppings masquerading as Approvals. We should REQUIRE some form of order, as we did have once before before, (I will remind some that worldwide at the inception of Approvals was NOT allowed). At minimum grouping countries and having duplicates not scattered everywhere should be mandated, just as we mandate indicatig faults. Is it so difficult?
rrr...

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"E. Rutherford: All science is either physics or stamp collecting."
Harvey
I think, therefore I am - I think!
02 Jan 2022
06:39:37pm
re: Book Organization Kudos

rrr - I agree, there has to be some minimum standard. The other day I was checking one of these mixture books for Poland and got so frustrated that it wasn't fun anymore and gave up on it. What I'm doing now is opening the book and looking at the first page and if there is no organization I don't go any further!

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psgStamper
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02 Jan 2022
06:43:29pm
re: Book Organization Kudos

While it would be great to have books structured by country, sorted by Scott # (or whatever system the seller chooses) and in chronological order, I would settle for grouping countries and some attempt at chronological order. Oh yeah, if you have duplicates, please place them together... no hiding throughout the book. I have pretty much given up looking at books with no order whatsoever... Other than that, I do find SOR to be my #1 online source for stamps!

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Brechinite
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Neddie Seagoon from The Telegoons
02 Jan 2022
07:52:12pm

Auctions - Approvals
re: Book Organization Kudos

There are rules.

The problem is enforcement or should I say lack of enforcement.

To expect someone to go through every book when they are listed looking at each item would take an inordinate amount of time and to me is totally wasteful.

Some members point out that they are dis-satisfied with some books and that rules are being broken.

Not all sellers read the posts on the discussion board so expecting them to "change their ways" is a no no.

As I see it the only way forward is for the dis-satisfied members to complain to those in authority and allow the authorities to take the appropriate action. (The authorities cannot take action if they are not given the information.)

If the dis-satisfied members do not feel that they want to notify the authorities then that is their privilige and may I suggest that they take note of the particular seller and don't look at their Books ever again. or

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Brechinite
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Neddie Seagoon from The Telegoons
02 Jan 2022
08:29:11pm

Auctions - Approvals
re: Book Organization Kudos

There is one particular seller who has sold many, many, many items from their Approval Books over the last 14 days. Yes some of their books would qualify for rrraphy's "Floor Sweepings" and Harveys less than "Minimum Standard".

They also have some "Brilliant" Approval Books with a wide variety of different countries.

Too strict enforcement over the "poor" books may result in losing a good resource of better material.

This member accounts for approx 14% of the total books listed.

Be careful what you wish for.

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Webpaper
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02 Jan 2022
10:01:14pm
re: Book Organization Kudos

Back when I was doing shows the bulk of my material slowly became postal history and related ephemera where welcomed.

Two schools of thought as to organization - the first was to have everything categorized and notated with what the cover was and its redeeming features, all neatly sleeved and orderly. The second was totally disorganized with small light price notations on a back corner of each cover. You would find a 50 cent 1880's GPC and the next cover would be a scarce $200 territorial stampless.

Guess who had lines of people waiting for a chair. Guess who sold the most covers. The logic is simple - few people collect only one type of cover. Cover collectors are eclectic and are always looking for something new. At the organized tables they go through a box of early FDC's, then a box of stsmpless, then a box of #11's looking for #10's,a box of #26's looking for #25's. They see the same covers month after month. Boring.

At the anything goes anywhere table they are exposed to new material every month just from the sheer volume of it. They pick up something because - "Hey, that's neat".

Food for thought - personally I go through world wide at nickels and dimes apiece because there are bargains to be found in that mess and I can scan the whole 24 page book in under 5 minutes. Do I miss things - certainly but I often come away with one or more stamps that catalog a few dollars apiece.

Let the market decide

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Brechinite
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Neddie Seagoon from The Telegoons
03 Jan 2022
05:22:21am

Auctions - Approvals
re: Book Organization Kudos

I attend a few auctions and buy mixed boxes.

Looking through these boxes is more "exciting" and "rewarding" than an album/box of a single country.

The "chase" can be more interesting than the "result".

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auldstampguy
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Just one more small cover .....
09 Jan 2022
10:28:04am
re: Book Organization Kudos

I just bought a bunch of stamps from a couple of Jan-Simon (siem)'s Approval Books. Jan-Simon had listed them in chronological order on the page, which made it so easy for me to check whether I had them already or not. Thank you Jan-Simon, I really appreciate your efforts.

Regards ... Tim.

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