David, are you thinking of this article.
https://stamporama.com/articles/display_article.php?id=RAzVsUyz8ryqE
EDIT
Especially the last link on the page.
Was that the article or should we still be looking?
David,
As well as the article that Vic(Sheepshanks) referenced, the following articles that Bob(bobstamp) wrote is also very good on this subject:
https://stamporama.com/articles/display_article.php?id=RASd3nKLqcQNo
Regards ... Tim.
thanks; that's it
The link in Tims post is the one I referenced in the Edit of my post.
Wow! I just read Bob's article and I don't imagine anyone could do a better job of explaining the topic! Wonderful article! It needs to be forwarded to anyone who inquires!
Regarding the lore of dishonest stamp dealers--
Back in the day, in my teens from probably 15 to 19, I used to help out at the local stamp and coin shop. The two owners were coin guys and I actually knew I lot more about stamps than they did.
People would bring in these collections... I got to the point where I immediately recognized the free stamp albums distributed in VA hospitals. They'd usually have mostly damaged and heavily canceled stamps in them. Value- Nothing.
Then we'd get those Franklin Mint (and the like) "personalized collections" of the 50 State Capitols, Olympics or even the Fleetwood album of first day covers. Again, value- Nothing.
It was tough to tell these folks what they had. Those with Uncle Boswell's old VA album had those visions of sending kids to college on that piece. The ones with the "instant collectible" cushy cover albums, remember what they paid for it and thought it certainly would have greatly appreciated!
I had people get angry and since I was young, demand to see an adult as "what would this kid know?" The store owners would tell them I knew more than they did! And those folks would call us crooks... and I'd remind them that we made them no offer, nor were interested in buying their treasure. It was the tough part of the business.
I see those "valuable" collections pop up on ebay all the time for hundreds of dollars where in reality they are worth in the $25-$50 price range...shipped...usually. There are exceptions to the rule of course but for the most part...most of them are rarely worth over $100.
Yeah...Uncle Albert sure bit the fish hook on that one when he bought it as an "investment".
Mike
In the last year alone I've had to find a polite way to tell three people (two friends and my mail delivery guy) that their collections were worth next to nothing. I always tried to get the term "sentimental value" somewhere in the conversation. I was also in the antique business for about 30 years and dealt with people bringing family treasures to me all the time. It is very hard to not hurt peoples feelings! I have many family items that are priceless to me but worth next to nothing in the market place so I know exactly how they felt. It's always like this "This belonged to granny and she died last year at 98 years of age". I have to find a way to tell them that she probably bought the vase at Walmart when she was 96! You have to be very careful not to insult a future customer.
BenFranklin1902 said, "Wow! I just read Bob's article and I don't imagine anyone could do a better job of explaining the topic! Wonderful article! It needs to be forwarded to anyone who inquires!"
Well, blush, thank you for the compliment. I wrote that article in self-defence when I was president (maybe VP) of the British Columbia Philatelic Society. I was constantly getting emails from people wanting to divest themselves of their collections of collections they had inherited. Instead of reinventing the wheel with each response, I wrote the article, which probably needs to be revised for today's brave new world.
One thing I learned is that it never paid to assume that the collections in question were worth little or nothing at all. One day I got an email from a gentleman who lived just a few blocks from me, here in Vancouver. He wanted to donate it to our club. I called him and made arrangements to pick it up, but told him that I wanted to make sure that it didn't contain stamps that he could sell. Well....
It did contain stamps that he could have sold. His father had been a collector who, in the 1930s, was a travelling salesman who made a habit of going to post offices all over Western Canada when he knew that new stamps had been issued, and buying singles and multiples. Later on, into the 1960s, he bought a lot of short approval lots that didn't include the high-value key issue of the set. I took a quick look at the collection and told him that while the club would appreciate the donation, he could probably sell it for quite a lot of money in a local auction. One of the items I noted was a MNH block of four of the most well-known of all Canadian stamps, the Bluenose issue. However, the owner insisted that I take them all as a donation. He didn't need the money (he lived in a nearly luxurious condo), and was in his late 80s if he was a day, and obviously in poor health.
I wasn't wrong about the value of the collection. The club sold it in club auctions and in a local bidboard auction. The Bluenose block sold for CAN $2000, mainly because one of the stamps was the "Man on the Mast" variety, which, damn it, I missed!
Bob
"Bluenose block sold for CAN $2000, mainly because one of the stamps was the "Man on the Mast" variety, which, damn it, I missed!"
Over on the other forum we get a number of inquiries every week, the overwhelming majority of them have very little market value. As far as a quick evaluation and a starting point for estimating market value, we often ask folks how much money their family member spent on the material. If the original collector spent significant amounts, then chances increase that there might be meaningful market value.
But I try to steer folks away from thinking in terms of financial investment and more in terms of ‘mental profit’ (term taken from the 1930s book titled "The Essentials of Stamp Collecting")
Book is a free download here
https://stampsmarter.org/learning/Home_General.html
We often tell them that while there might not be significant market value, what they have is a good start on the new hobby. In my opinion, these folks are the ‘low hanging fruit’ for drawing new hobbyists into philately. Some people lament the lack of kids in the hobby but think it rare that many kids will stay active decade after decade once they get into school, start a family, and start a career. So the folks who have come into an inherited collection or accumulation represent one of the best opportunities for our hobby.
Lastly, I think we sometimes have an issue with more experience hobbyists being snarky with inexperienced ‘treasure hunters’ that come into some of the online forums. I understand the frustration if the ‘treasure hunter’ pushes back and does not seem to believe that they shouldn’t quit their day job and try to live on Uncle Joes collection of every mint US stamp (in Crystal Mounts) since 1940, ‘boxes of FDCs’, or a ‘huge UN collection’. But while it might be frustrating, I think we should do your best to persuade these folks into long-term collectors.
We can always guarantee that philately will assist in learning about new people, places, history, geography. We can never guarantee that someone will even break even with what they have spent on the hobby. If someone showed an interest in collecting art, would we suggest to them that they might one day find a Rembrandt at a garage sale or would we tell them to buy art pieces which they found enjoyable for as long as they owned it?
Don
Many of you know that I volunteer at the Northern Philatelic Library in Minneapolis, MN. Similar to what Don was describing above, we often have people bringing in collections, asking for valuations and directions in how to sell the collection for the value that they think the collection is worth. I remember one day a few months ago a lady came in with a collection, convinced that it was worth a whole lot of money, and was really shocked when told that the collection was worth maybe $50 at best. She said, "WHAT, you mean I have to cancel our vacation to Jamaica?" She had actually already booked her vacation.
she could have added to her collection by visiting the Jamaica POs and picking up some more stamps
I agree with 51Studebaker's post and I also enjoyed Bobstamp's article. I thought I would add one more from another SOR member that suports all that has been said.
I did not realize there were members of the advisory service. I never knew how it worked.
In my earlier story in this thread, about the Bluenose block of four, I forgot to mention that the short sets of stamps in the donated accumulation sold in auction for about CAN $1000. We "experienced" collectors don't generally stop to consider the collective value of low-value stamps. If nothing else, when you sell a collection, they serve as loss leaders that heighten buyers' interest in purchasing the the collection because of the more valuable stamps it contains.
Bob
The worst are the Facebook stamp groups. They get the daily influx of fortune hunters with torn and wrinkled US definitives and the almighty experts in those groups take special glee in telling them that what they have is garbage and to just throw it out.
The experts there really aren't all that bright. There will be photos of 1908ish postcards and covers, and the experts will tell them those are just stamps issued in the millions and to throw them away. As I look I see some really nice hand cancels, DPOs, RPOs and ship cancels. This doesn't even register with these clowns that these may be $5-10 covers, and I sell them all the time on eBay.
Same with first day covers. One character in particular tells people that nobody collects those anymore so they'd sell for a nickel or a dime. Um, I sell a few hundred a month at $1.29 to $10 each!
"Same with first day covers. One character in particular tells people that nobody collects those anymore so they'd sell for a nickel or a dime. Um, I sell a few hundred a month at $1.29 to $10 each!"
"This is why you see common material that many informed collectors avoid buying sell for premium. I am sure some of these sellers score big when uniformed selling to other uninformed.
Informed means they know they can readily get it for a lower price."
I have known collectors who refused to pay more than 10% of catalogue value for stamps. Saving money seemed to have greater appeal to them than completing a page in a stamp album or owning a key stamp in a set of stamps. I don't understand why they can call themselves "collectors" when they are actually human versions of Scrooge McDuck.
I have long since given up trying to limit my purchases to stamps that are priced at x% under "catalogue" value, partly because I can no longer attend stamp shows and bourses, of which there are few in Vancouver anyway, and because I refuse to set foot again in Vancouver's only remaining storefront stamp shop. Even All Nations Stamp & Coin now operates by appointment only, and that's a long and uncomfortable bus ride away. Mainly, however, I simply have no interest in the resale value of my collection and little concern if stamps sell for more or less than catalogue value. I am far more interested in what stamps can do for me now (keep me interested in life) than in whatever they can be sold for after I'm gone.
I recognize, of course, that buying stamps on line is an expensive activity. The shipping alone is often many times the "market value" or even the catalogue value of a stamp. About the only reason I won't buy a stamps, covers, and postcards that attract me are astronomically, stupidly high shipping cost. Does anyone pay, say, US $45 to have a single stamp mailed to them? I often see such ridiculous charges on eBay, so I do limit my agreements to purchase to sellers who exhibit common sense when it comes to shipping. But if I see what I think of as reasonable shipping charges, I would rather pay $5 to obtain a single desirable stamp with a catalogue value of a dollar than to save $5 and not have the stamp. (Buying collections would make better economic sense, except that I would be saddled with thousands of mostly boring stamps that I would have to get rid of or face divorce, all for the possibility of finding a few stamps that I want.)
Bob
Hi all,
I'm ususally decent (not superb, mind you) at researchiing stuff, esp when I know it exists. Such is NOT the case with my trying to find the link to the discussion/article/somepin on the steps to take when confronted with an inherited collection.
The reason i ask is I have promised to write an article for the local paper in which i discuss exactly that, and rather than use precious space describing it, I thought I'd provide the link AND get SOR exposure while helping folks who have those rare purple 3c silhouttes of Jefferson.
Help my look just a little closer to superb.
David
re: help me find the discussion on what to do with an inherited collection
David, are you thinking of this article.
https://stamporama.com/articles/display_article.php?id=RAzVsUyz8ryqE
EDIT
Especially the last link on the page.
re: help me find the discussion on what to do with an inherited collection
Was that the article or should we still be looking?
re: help me find the discussion on what to do with an inherited collection
David,
As well as the article that Vic(Sheepshanks) referenced, the following articles that Bob(bobstamp) wrote is also very good on this subject:
https://stamporama.com/articles/display_article.php?id=RASd3nKLqcQNo
Regards ... Tim.
re: help me find the discussion on what to do with an inherited collection
thanks; that's it
re: help me find the discussion on what to do with an inherited collection
The link in Tims post is the one I referenced in the Edit of my post.
re: help me find the discussion on what to do with an inherited collection
Wow! I just read Bob's article and I don't imagine anyone could do a better job of explaining the topic! Wonderful article! It needs to be forwarded to anyone who inquires!
Regarding the lore of dishonest stamp dealers--
Back in the day, in my teens from probably 15 to 19, I used to help out at the local stamp and coin shop. The two owners were coin guys and I actually knew I lot more about stamps than they did.
People would bring in these collections... I got to the point where I immediately recognized the free stamp albums distributed in VA hospitals. They'd usually have mostly damaged and heavily canceled stamps in them. Value- Nothing.
Then we'd get those Franklin Mint (and the like) "personalized collections" of the 50 State Capitols, Olympics or even the Fleetwood album of first day covers. Again, value- Nothing.
It was tough to tell these folks what they had. Those with Uncle Boswell's old VA album had those visions of sending kids to college on that piece. The ones with the "instant collectible" cushy cover albums, remember what they paid for it and thought it certainly would have greatly appreciated!
I had people get angry and since I was young, demand to see an adult as "what would this kid know?" The store owners would tell them I knew more than they did! And those folks would call us crooks... and I'd remind them that we made them no offer, nor were interested in buying their treasure. It was the tough part of the business.
re: help me find the discussion on what to do with an inherited collection
I see those "valuable" collections pop up on ebay all the time for hundreds of dollars where in reality they are worth in the $25-$50 price range...shipped...usually. There are exceptions to the rule of course but for the most part...most of them are rarely worth over $100.
Yeah...Uncle Albert sure bit the fish hook on that one when he bought it as an "investment".
Mike
re: help me find the discussion on what to do with an inherited collection
In the last year alone I've had to find a polite way to tell three people (two friends and my mail delivery guy) that their collections were worth next to nothing. I always tried to get the term "sentimental value" somewhere in the conversation. I was also in the antique business for about 30 years and dealt with people bringing family treasures to me all the time. It is very hard to not hurt peoples feelings! I have many family items that are priceless to me but worth next to nothing in the market place so I know exactly how they felt. It's always like this "This belonged to granny and she died last year at 98 years of age". I have to find a way to tell them that she probably bought the vase at Walmart when she was 96! You have to be very careful not to insult a future customer.
re: help me find the discussion on what to do with an inherited collection
BenFranklin1902 said, "Wow! I just read Bob's article and I don't imagine anyone could do a better job of explaining the topic! Wonderful article! It needs to be forwarded to anyone who inquires!"
Well, blush, thank you for the compliment. I wrote that article in self-defence when I was president (maybe VP) of the British Columbia Philatelic Society. I was constantly getting emails from people wanting to divest themselves of their collections of collections they had inherited. Instead of reinventing the wheel with each response, I wrote the article, which probably needs to be revised for today's brave new world.
One thing I learned is that it never paid to assume that the collections in question were worth little or nothing at all. One day I got an email from a gentleman who lived just a few blocks from me, here in Vancouver. He wanted to donate it to our club. I called him and made arrangements to pick it up, but told him that I wanted to make sure that it didn't contain stamps that he could sell. Well....
It did contain stamps that he could have sold. His father had been a collector who, in the 1930s, was a travelling salesman who made a habit of going to post offices all over Western Canada when he knew that new stamps had been issued, and buying singles and multiples. Later on, into the 1960s, he bought a lot of short approval lots that didn't include the high-value key issue of the set. I took a quick look at the collection and told him that while the club would appreciate the donation, he could probably sell it for quite a lot of money in a local auction. One of the items I noted was a MNH block of four of the most well-known of all Canadian stamps, the Bluenose issue. However, the owner insisted that I take them all as a donation. He didn't need the money (he lived in a nearly luxurious condo), and was in his late 80s if he was a day, and obviously in poor health.
I wasn't wrong about the value of the collection. The club sold it in club auctions and in a local bidboard auction. The Bluenose block sold for CAN $2000, mainly because one of the stamps was the "Man on the Mast" variety, which, damn it, I missed!
Bob
re: help me find the discussion on what to do with an inherited collection
"Bluenose block sold for CAN $2000, mainly because one of the stamps was the "Man on the Mast" variety, which, damn it, I missed!"
re: help me find the discussion on what to do with an inherited collection
Over on the other forum we get a number of inquiries every week, the overwhelming majority of them have very little market value. As far as a quick evaluation and a starting point for estimating market value, we often ask folks how much money their family member spent on the material. If the original collector spent significant amounts, then chances increase that there might be meaningful market value.
But I try to steer folks away from thinking in terms of financial investment and more in terms of ‘mental profit’ (term taken from the 1930s book titled "The Essentials of Stamp Collecting")
Book is a free download here
https://stampsmarter.org/learning/Home_General.html
We often tell them that while there might not be significant market value, what they have is a good start on the new hobby. In my opinion, these folks are the ‘low hanging fruit’ for drawing new hobbyists into philately. Some people lament the lack of kids in the hobby but think it rare that many kids will stay active decade after decade once they get into school, start a family, and start a career. So the folks who have come into an inherited collection or accumulation represent one of the best opportunities for our hobby.
Lastly, I think we sometimes have an issue with more experience hobbyists being snarky with inexperienced ‘treasure hunters’ that come into some of the online forums. I understand the frustration if the ‘treasure hunter’ pushes back and does not seem to believe that they shouldn’t quit their day job and try to live on Uncle Joes collection of every mint US stamp (in Crystal Mounts) since 1940, ‘boxes of FDCs’, or a ‘huge UN collection’. But while it might be frustrating, I think we should do your best to persuade these folks into long-term collectors.
We can always guarantee that philately will assist in learning about new people, places, history, geography. We can never guarantee that someone will even break even with what they have spent on the hobby. If someone showed an interest in collecting art, would we suggest to them that they might one day find a Rembrandt at a garage sale or would we tell them to buy art pieces which they found enjoyable for as long as they owned it?
Don
re: help me find the discussion on what to do with an inherited collection
Many of you know that I volunteer at the Northern Philatelic Library in Minneapolis, MN. Similar to what Don was describing above, we often have people bringing in collections, asking for valuations and directions in how to sell the collection for the value that they think the collection is worth. I remember one day a few months ago a lady came in with a collection, convinced that it was worth a whole lot of money, and was really shocked when told that the collection was worth maybe $50 at best. She said, "WHAT, you mean I have to cancel our vacation to Jamaica?" She had actually already booked her vacation.
re: help me find the discussion on what to do with an inherited collection
she could have added to her collection by visiting the Jamaica POs and picking up some more stamps
re: help me find the discussion on what to do with an inherited collection
I agree with 51Studebaker's post and I also enjoyed Bobstamp's article. I thought I would add one more from another SOR member that suports all that has been said.
re: help me find the discussion on what to do with an inherited collection
I did not realize there were members of the advisory service. I never knew how it worked.
re: help me find the discussion on what to do with an inherited collection
In my earlier story in this thread, about the Bluenose block of four, I forgot to mention that the short sets of stamps in the donated accumulation sold in auction for about CAN $1000. We "experienced" collectors don't generally stop to consider the collective value of low-value stamps. If nothing else, when you sell a collection, they serve as loss leaders that heighten buyers' interest in purchasing the the collection because of the more valuable stamps it contains.
Bob
re: help me find the discussion on what to do with an inherited collection
The worst are the Facebook stamp groups. They get the daily influx of fortune hunters with torn and wrinkled US definitives and the almighty experts in those groups take special glee in telling them that what they have is garbage and to just throw it out.
The experts there really aren't all that bright. There will be photos of 1908ish postcards and covers, and the experts will tell them those are just stamps issued in the millions and to throw them away. As I look I see some really nice hand cancels, DPOs, RPOs and ship cancels. This doesn't even register with these clowns that these may be $5-10 covers, and I sell them all the time on eBay.
Same with first day covers. One character in particular tells people that nobody collects those anymore so they'd sell for a nickel or a dime. Um, I sell a few hundred a month at $1.29 to $10 each!
re: help me find the discussion on what to do with an inherited collection
"Same with first day covers. One character in particular tells people that nobody collects those anymore so they'd sell for a nickel or a dime. Um, I sell a few hundred a month at $1.29 to $10 each!"
re: help me find the discussion on what to do with an inherited collection
"This is why you see common material that many informed collectors avoid buying sell for premium. I am sure some of these sellers score big when uniformed selling to other uninformed.
Informed means they know they can readily get it for a lower price."
re: help me find the discussion on what to do with an inherited collection
I have known collectors who refused to pay more than 10% of catalogue value for stamps. Saving money seemed to have greater appeal to them than completing a page in a stamp album or owning a key stamp in a set of stamps. I don't understand why they can call themselves "collectors" when they are actually human versions of Scrooge McDuck.
I have long since given up trying to limit my purchases to stamps that are priced at x% under "catalogue" value, partly because I can no longer attend stamp shows and bourses, of which there are few in Vancouver anyway, and because I refuse to set foot again in Vancouver's only remaining storefront stamp shop. Even All Nations Stamp & Coin now operates by appointment only, and that's a long and uncomfortable bus ride away. Mainly, however, I simply have no interest in the resale value of my collection and little concern if stamps sell for more or less than catalogue value. I am far more interested in what stamps can do for me now (keep me interested in life) than in whatever they can be sold for after I'm gone.
I recognize, of course, that buying stamps on line is an expensive activity. The shipping alone is often many times the "market value" or even the catalogue value of a stamp. About the only reason I won't buy a stamps, covers, and postcards that attract me are astronomically, stupidly high shipping cost. Does anyone pay, say, US $45 to have a single stamp mailed to them? I often see such ridiculous charges on eBay, so I do limit my agreements to purchase to sellers who exhibit common sense when it comes to shipping. But if I see what I think of as reasonable shipping charges, I would rather pay $5 to obtain a single desirable stamp with a catalogue value of a dollar than to save $5 and not have the stamp. (Buying collections would make better economic sense, except that I would be saddled with thousands of mostly boring stamps that I would have to get rid of or face divorce, all for the possibility of finding a few stamps that I want.)
Bob