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Off Topic/Non-philatelic Disc. : They can not find anyone to hire !

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philb
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09 Sep 2021
03:04:36pm

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I went to a local bodyshop to get some cosmetic work done on my car ..the owner said he is all alone and come back in October...ok ! I have been calling plumbers to get some plumbing updated and its even worse with them..they are working on emergency cases only...i asked one plumber if BOCES had plumbing courses and he said they cancelled it be cause it was TOO HARD ! Duh, you have to start somewhere with anything. If they do not want to work and they do not want to learn..they better keep their complaints to themselves.
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"If a man would be anything, he must be himself."
burrowsj
09 Sep 2021
03:24:38pm

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re: They can not find anyone to hire !

Same situation in Ontario at least in terms of the service industry ie restaurants.Restaurants have opened in Ontario with limited seating capacity but they have had to make further limitations on numbers and some more high end shops just have not opened because they cannot obtain enough servers.The Federal government in its infinite wisdom extended welfare benefits at the beginning of summer to minimum wage earners until the end of October making it more profitable for these people to sit at home with a cheque once a month rather than working.At the beginning of summer my 17 year old granddaughter picked up a hostessing job at local restaurant getting 40 hours a week @ 15.00 bucks an hour.....happy as a pig in ****.Also she a been promised a few hours on the weekends when she returns to her final year of High School this Fall.

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Zipper
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Dogs are my favorite people. I hang with this one as often as I can.
09 Sep 2021
06:22:31pm
re: They can not find anyone to hire !

Would YOU work for what service industry workers make?

If employers can't afford to pay a worker $15 an hour (barely a living wage) they can't afford an employee.


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burrowsj
09 Sep 2021
07:43:00pm

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re: They can not find anyone to hire !

I said that my granddaughter who is a student and 17 years of age with no work experience was working for minimum wage ie. 15.00. As for an adult server,I have no idea what their base pay would be per hour,in most establishments they would be getting tips or a percentage of the house tips as well.Undoubtedly they are not making a lot of money but I suspect they are doing that job because they have minimum educational training and few documented skill credentials.

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partsguy
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09 Sep 2021
09:50:36pm
re: They can not find anyone to hire !

$15 CDN works out to around $11.85 US at today's exchange rate, so if she's getting tips on top of that, she's doing pretty well for a server. Tipped positions are an exception to the minimum wage laws, so "tipped minimum wage" is often $2-3 lower in most jurisdictions.

The US federal poverty line for a family of FOUR is $26,500 which assuming a single non-tipped earner with 3 kids working a 40 hour week, still only works out to $12.74 per hour. Currently, the minimum wage is highest in California at $14, my home state of New York is $12.50.... Aside from Cook County at $13, the rest of Illinois has a minimum wage of $11/hr, so even Zipper's lawmakers don't seem to agree that everyone deserves $15.

The true cost of employing a person is actually higher than just their hourly rate. The rule of thumb, when accounting for payroll taxes, Social Security and Medicaid taxes, paid leave, benefits, and other overhead, is that an employee's true cost is actually between 1.25 and 1.4 times their hourly rate. So a $15 hourly rate costs an employer between $18.75 and $21. Forgive me if I disagree that a high-school dropout who can't get a fast-food order right and doesn't know how to make change deserves $15/hr. Want a better pay rate or better-paying job? Learn a skill and earn it.

Unfortunately, there is a trend in the schools to limit or drop vocational education, and push graduates toward university educations. It looks better for the schools to say they have a high college acceptance rate. When's the last time you saw a school brag about how many graduates went on to a career in plumbing? I think this is a huge mistake, as not everyone is cut out for college. If you aren't "college material", they'll just kick you out the door after grade 12 to fend for yourself with no skills whatsoever, and you end up in a dead-end, low-paying job. Future generations will be left with a population overrun with unemployable liberal arts majors, and nobody left to service their electric self-driving cars, or fix their broken plumbing.... Phil's recent experiences are just a foreshadowing of this trend.

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Webpaper
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09 Sep 2021
10:40:13pm
re: They can not find anyone to hire !


I think what we tend to forget is these $15 an hour food service jobs used to be filled by high school kids so they could earn a little extra spending money. They were never designed to be living wage positions.

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Brechinite
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Neddie Seagoon from The Telegoons
10 Sep 2021
05:37:57am

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re: They can not find anyone to hire !

Quote:

"Unfortunately, there is a trend in the schools to limit or drop vocational education, and push graduates toward university educations."



The UK went the "University or Bust" route years ago.

Until 2019 it was OK as all the "Trades" were filled by cheap labour from the East European Countries that were members of the European Union.

Thanks to Brexit and Covid these Europeans have gone home and few if any will return.

The results are fields of produce not being harvested, a shortage of Lorry Drivers causing major disruption for all industries supply chains, major delays in building projects and don't even think of finding a tradesman for house improvements.
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BenFranklin1902
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Tom in Exton, PA
10 Sep 2021
01:30:19pm
re: They can not find anyone to hire !

I think it's the same all over right about now! I had to book my car inspection two weeks out here in Pennsylvania. My daughter was quoted 2-3 week wait for a car repair in New Jersey.

Part of the shortage may be that the flow of illegals has been curtailed at the southern border. The people who worked the back of the restaurant and lawn services are conspicuously absent. My lawn service only managed to mow our neighborhood every 1 1/2 to 2 weeks this summer. I see the help is American. Two nice middle age black guys were mowing my lawn. I gave them waters!

On the high end, I read that more than twice the anticipated number of people retired during the pandemic. As we know, there are many more Baby Boomers than the following generations and I always predicted that there would be a labor shortage as they retired. It's happening! I've gotten more calls from my LinkedIn profile lately than ever before!

Me? I took the year off. I'll be 63 next month but am financially stable. I did a project second half of last year for Merck, and decided in January that I'd wait until I got vaccinated and the mess to die down. Then summer hit and I thought it would be nice to lounge in my pool. This week I agreed to accept an interesting project for Pfizer that should keep me busy until end of this year. Summer is over!


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philb
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10 Sep 2021
02:38:48pm

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re: They can not find anyone to hire !

Yes it seems that everything is bass ackwards...my neighbors 15 year old son working part time at a local supermarket was receiving checks from the government. So did we, but we are a bit older than he is.

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Zipper
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10 Sep 2021
05:44:16pm
re: They can not find anyone to hire !

@partsguy

You've listed figures for what an employee costs an employer. Where are your figures for how much money an employee makes for his employer?

An example is what Amazon employees earn for Jeff Bezos.

How many Walmart employees need food stamps because the Walton family won't pay a lining wage?

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partsguy
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10 Sep 2021
08:10:51pm
re: They can not find anyone to hire !

Zipper,

Revenue per employee can be calculated easily if you know the company's annual revenue and the number of employees. Feel free to look those figures up if you're actually interested in an answer to a likely rhetorical question. Divide total revenue by total number of employees. If you have a mean salary value for the entire staff, you can also (roughly) determine the ratio between pay received to revenue generated per employee.

Just remember that much like real life, not everyone is contributing equally to the company's successes. At your Wal-Mart, how much profit is the kid rounding up carts generating for "the Waltons" (who actually own less than 50% of the shares in WMT, a publicly traded company)???

As for SNAP benefits, only 9 states actually responded to a recent inquiry into this question, and it accounted for about 15,000 people. Those states, according to Wal-Mart, have an aggregate associate count of roughly 305,000 employees. So, 4-5% of Wal-Mart employees among those 9 states surveyed receive "food stamps". The USDA indicates that nationally, about 12% of the entire US population received food assistance in any given month. Sounds as if the population of WM employees on assistance is less than half that of the national average. And considering that WM is the LARGEST employer in 4 of those 9 states (those 4 make up nearly 2/3 of the total), it may even skew the data in the opposite direction a little.....

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Zipper
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11 Sep 2021
06:38:32am
re: They can not find anyone to hire !

Outsourcing is the corporate solution to revenue per employee when an employee feels entitled to a living wage.

Sorry, I hate greedy people who take advantage of others for profit.

Can you read The Jungle and not sympathize with Jurgis Rudkus?

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partsguy
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11 Sep 2021
03:17:26pm
re: They can not find anyone to hire !

Jurgis is an unskilled, non-English-speaking laborer who emigrates to America with his 15 year old girlfriend, is swindled repeatedly, and discovers there is no mythical "better life" for him in Chicago, after he takes the first crappy job he is offered.
With few actual prospects, he blows his remaining money on a wedding, a home they can't afford, and proceeds to have children with his underage wife.
He becomes an alcoholic, spends multiple terms in prison for assault and robbery, and ultimately winds up alone and begging for assistance. Newly in thrall to a group of wealthy socialists, he spends the rest of his life proselytizing this newfound cause.

So can I read The Jungle and not sympathize with Jurgis? In a word, yes.

Aside from the obvious (and more or less accidental) positive affect on food safety, The Jungle is basically socialist propaganda, as Sinclair intended it. Well-written and well-received propaganda that people still reference when they want to draw comparisons to social "injustices", but propaganda nonetheless.

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Brechinite
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Neddie Seagoon from The Telegoons
11 Sep 2021
06:32:18pm

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re: They can not find anyone to hire !

Yuupp!

"Slavery" is alive and well in the Western World.

The rich get richer and the poor get poorer.

Its been that way for millenia.



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"Whit’s fur ye’ll no go by ye!......Noo jist haud on!.......Gonnae no’ dae that!..Just Gonnae no'"
Zipper
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Dogs are my favorite people. I hang with this one as often as I can.
11 Sep 2021
06:33:00pm
re: They can not find anyone to hire !

Of course it's a propaganda novel. However, the characters were drawn from actual stockyard employees who worked 12 hour days, six days a week for pennies and were fired when they had a workplace injury.

The Golden Rule will always apply: He who has the gold makes the rules. That's why employers hoard all the gold.


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Zipper
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11 Sep 2021
06:42:37pm
re: They can not find anyone to hire !

@Brechinite

Remember the question sparked by the industrial revolution?

Is it better to be a slave, or a wage slave?

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BenFranklin1902
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Tom in Exton, PA
13 Sep 2021
02:18:24pm
re: They can not find anyone to hire !

The City of Philadelphia is begging people to become sanitation workers.

Starting wage $28 an hour. They'll get you your CDL license. Full benefits, pension... employment for life!

They can't get anyone to apply!

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philb
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13 Sep 2021
04:01:40pm

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re: They can not find anyone to hire !

i got a call from IBM in 1964...job offer $75.00 a week Yes or No ? I said yes.

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BenFranklin1902
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Tom in Exton, PA
13 Sep 2021
04:28:20pm
re: They can not find anyone to hire !

Quote:

"i got a call from IBM in 1964...job offer $75.00 a week Yes or No ? I said yes."



Wasn't that like $25 an hour for actual hours worked? Big Grin

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philb
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13 Sep 2021
06:04:56pm

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re: They can not find anyone to hire !

i did a lot of walking between the huge buildings !Happy

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partsguy
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13 Sep 2021
06:53:40pm
re: They can not find anyone to hire !

no moving walkways? no bicycles or golf cars? you had to WALK? between buildings? unbelievable! I hope you called your union rep and/or sued IBM for creating a hostile work environment!
Oh yeah, it was 1964, and you are from a generation who actually didn't mind working for a paycheck. Thank you!

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Speaker
13 Sep 2021
07:41:15pm
re: They can not find anyone to hire !

This is a touchy subject, and is a good test of the recent thread on being polite and respectful in these discussions. So far I haven't seen anyone QUITE come out and say, "These bums don't want to work". Although as it goes along it may be getting a bit closer to the precipice. But for the most part, this has been interesting reading as opposed to cringeworthy reading.

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Zipper
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13 Sep 2021
07:56:06pm
re: They can not find anyone to hire !

@Phil. Back then, $75 a week was a living wage. I netted $75 dollars a week in 1967 and rented a 2 bedroom front to rear unit apartment that was $75 a month. Phone bill was $5, Electric was $5, groceries were $20 a week or less. A movie was fifty cents for a double feature and a baseball game was 75 cents ($3.00 for a Golden Box which was quite affordable). Coffee was 10 cents a cup. A large pizza with everything on it was $1.50. Bought a brand new Pontiac for only $3,000 cash.

A one bedroom apartment in my neighborhood is $1,600. $30.00 for a 12" vegetarian pizza. $150 for a Golden Box seat at a baseball game. Even bleacher seats are $60. A movie is $20. A new car is about $40,00.

Henry Ford stated that he had to pay his employees well enough that they could afford to buy his cars.

The more money the middle and working classes make, the more they spend. The millionaires invest their money to make more. They hate to have their money wind up in someone else's pocket.

Also, fear of dying from Covid is keeping people home.

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Zipper
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13 Sep 2021
08:08:23pm
re: They can not find anyone to hire !

@Phil. Also, the feds took only 10% taxes out of my paycheck in 1967. Before I retired, they took $600 a week.

In 1967, sales tax in Chicago was 2%, now it's 10%.




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philb
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13 Sep 2021
10:37:48pm

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re: They can not find anyone to hire !

Zipper, we married in 1966 and a couple could live on one salary..rent on our duplex was one weeks salary. When my wife re entered the work force after 15 years home with the kids i could not believe the taxes we had to pay...that was the 1980s and taxes were high..she had to have an extra $50 a week deducted from her salary and we still had to pay at tax time with a family of 5. Welcome to the middle class.

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Zipper
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Dogs are my favorite people. I hang with this one as often as I can.
14 Sep 2021
01:46:10am
re: They can not find anyone to hire !

Phil, I edited my post to reflect 'my 1967 rent was only $75 a month'. That too, was one week's paycheck. Before I edited it, I mistakenly typed my rent was $75 dollars a week.

That's why I'm in favor of a $15 minimum wage. It's only $600 a week, and if they're lucky they'll net $450. Nowhere in Chicago can one rent an apartment for $450. If one is lucky, one can find a small studio for $900 a month, but leases go up $25 to $50 a year.

https://abc7chicago.com/minimum-wage-chicago-illinois-2021-cook-county/10849920/

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Tom in Exton, PA
14 Sep 2021
10:47:57am
re: They can not find anyone to hire !

Quote:

"That's why I'm in favor of a $15 minimum wage. It's only $600 a week, and if they're lucky they'll net $450. Nowhere in Chicago can one rent an apartment for $450. If one is lucky, one can find a small studio for $900 a month, but leases go up $25 to $50 a year."



The problem with mandating this $15 minimum is that the economy will instantly jump up to absorb it. Then the people will be no better off, as everything will cost more!

An example of this was the Equal Rights Amendment of 1972. Before this a wife's salary could not be counted towards mortgage qualification. Suddenly it could. Couples with working wives could instantly qualify for twice the mortgage as they could on just the husband's salary. The price of homes literally doubled overnight!

And the cost of goods rose to wipe out this sudden prosperity. And soon enough wives had to work just to cover the family expenses. And the two income household was born!

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philb
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14 Sep 2021
05:05:03pm

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re: They can not find anyone to hire !

Tom, you bring back memories...we purchased our home in 1967 ...by the early 70's the price had gone up quite a bit...my wife as a homemaker had no salary.

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Zipper
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14 Sep 2021
07:45:58pm
re: They can not find anyone to hire !

Tom, I never understood why a couple would get a mortgage that required two salaries. When high-rises converted to condos big time in the 1980's many couples in their 20's and 30's did just that. When they broke up, neither could afford the place so they lost their investment.

I suppose no one told them that a mortgage broker is a just commisioned salesman who wants to sell Jumbo mortgages.

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Tom in Exton, PA
15 Sep 2021
12:41:04pm
re: They can not find anyone to hire !

Quote:

"Tom, I never understood why a couple would get a mortgage that required two salaries. "



Because people always want more than they can afford!

When my wife and I bought our first home we underbought, because we knew when we had kids we would live on one salary. We had a nice little Cape Cod in our preferred town. Many of our friends and family had much bigger houses (and bills). People "felt sorry for us" thinking it was all we could do. One person actually called it a ghetto house.

After five years, we bought our second home, a house that matched the houses of our peers. I bought it cheap as it needed renovation. I spent six months doing so, and adding a 20x14 kitchen and master suite above it. Most folks didn't notice we didn't sell our first house. We rented it.

We lived in the second house 25 years. We did look at moving up a couple of times, but my daughters were in the school system and wanted to stay in the neighborhood with their friends. My wife stayed home with the kids. So we paid off the mortgages on both our homes. We paid cash to send both daughters to college. Some of our family and friends bought bigger houses over the years and looked down on us as if we were poor people. Their kids have college loans.

Then I got the opportunity to move to Pennsylvania for a new job. The tenant in house number one fell ill and moved to her son's house.. same tenant 25 years! So I gutted that house, added a second story and renovated it for my two daughters to share. They had to pay the taxes, upkeep and the renovation mortgage. My elder daughter took a big part in the renovation.. she requested the second floor.. full bath, bedroom and laundry room, and invested $20k of her own money to make it happen.

With my daughters secure in a house we owned, and with smaller bills than they'd have otherwise, both of them saved their money and bought their own homes. When we eventually sold that house, I gave my daughter $30k, so she made money on her investment which went towards her new home!

So we loaded up the truck and moved to Beverley... actually Pennsylvania. With both kids out of college, we bought our third and final house. Note I didn't sell the two we already owned. This house is 5000 square foot on an acre, with a pool. It's six bedrooms with six baths. It is a big step up from all our friends and family. I actually got a great deal on it, people in a jam had to sell, and consider it an investment.

What happened next? We played it low key until we had our housewarming party. Prior to this I found a 10 year old red Jaguar with 23,000 miles on it for $12,000 and paid cash for it for my wife. I never spent a lot on cars... we had a string of Dodge Caravans all bought a year or two old at big discounts.

Our so called friends and family arrived and most were in shock! Here's this huge house in an upscale neighborhood and there's a Jaguar in the driveway, that looked new! Sad part? Nobody was happy for us! All day people interrogated me... HOW DID THIS HAPPEN? We were poor people... My response? We always had money... we just now made our move!

And where are these folks today? None of them actually own their homes. They refinanced over the years to pay off amassed debts they built buying things they couldn't afford. I know two of them who have been in their homes 30 years at least, currently have mortgages with 20 and 25 years left on them! If they stay in those homes, they'll still be paying well into retirement!
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philb
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15 Sep 2021
08:28:01pm

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re: They can not find anyone to hire !

Tom, i can relate, we live in a four bedroom one bath Cape Cod (three bedrooms now and a stamp room) we could actually use a second stamp room. They were built in 1958 as a bedroom community for IBM. We purchased it in 1967 for $14,200 as we were tired of 3 rent increases in a year and a half. So we owned a house...they would only give me a 30 year mortgage at my low salary, so we paid it off in 30 years..the kids are gone and now i could purchase a Jaguar but i would need a British mechanic to go along with it.

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partsguy
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15 Sep 2021
09:00:54pm
re: They can not find anyone to hire !

When I was just starting out on MY own, my mother (who raised me by herself on budget) drilled into my head that my rent shouldn't exceed one week's pay. I was driving $400 cars (and doing my own repairs), didn't have a stack of disposable income, ate thriftily, and rent was (like many people) my largest single monthly expense.

I've always remembered that maxim, and it has served me well. I occasionally spend more than I should on junk (or stamps!), and I (by preference) drive a 15 year-old truck (that I still do all the work on), but I make it all work when the bills come due.

Granted, I'm kind of a cheapskate, and pretty low-maintenance, but living within my means sure makes a lot of sense to me. I work at an auto dealership, providing parts to repair vehicles that cost more than I paid for my current home, and have monthly payments higher than my own mortgage. I don't get it, because I have also overheard conversations in the sales department as people get mad about being denied financing for a brand new vehicle that no bank would even consider underwriting, given their income or creditworthiness.

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