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General Philatelic/Gen. Discussion : PayPal Killing Me Slowly

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cardstamp
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03 Sep 2021
10:54:45am

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I know this is nothing new but with the recent rise in PayPal fees and the increase in US postage rates - I am loosing money on almost every sale. I recently changed my shipping rate to $1.50 from $1.40 for a one ounce small envelope in the US. However, I just had a recent small sale for a total of $15.00 plus my $1.50 - the total was $16.50. The postage rate was 58 cents and the PayPal fee was $1.07 which gave me $14.85. So the loss was 15 cents but that does not include the cost of the shipping material - enevelopes and approval cards. The loss is even more as the total amount of the sale goes up. My only option would be to raise my shipping rate again. What are other sellers doing now with these increased costs ? Thanks, Steve
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dell4c
03 Sep 2021
11:35:56am

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re: PayPal Killing Me Slowly

The stuff I sell are duplicates or remainders that I don't need for my collection. So they just fuel my obtaining other stamps I want. I have quite a few sales where the cost of postage eats into the cost of the stamps, but since they are going to other collectors that's fine with me. The platform was designed for collectors to "exchange" there dups so the small "losses" on some sales never bother me. I just hope that the the other collectors getting the stamps enjoy getting them and assume its all for the good of the hobby.

Bob

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philb
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03 Sep 2021
12:34:23pm

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re: PayPal Killing Me Slowly

I am like Bob, there is no sense having stamps that i do not need hanging around...i would not know what "break even" is...but it would be ok with me. It is sad that ebay and paypal treat the small sales this way.

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Jansimon
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03 Sep 2021
12:47:34pm

Auctions - Approvals
re: PayPal Killing Me Slowly

If you want to be a seller, you must accept that there will be costs. Services such as PayPal aren't free so the costs must be part of your business plan. Perhaps it means selling your stamps for 10 cents each instead of 5? Normal shops also have to pay for cashing checks or offering the possibility to use a credit card and most will just try to cover that in their selling prices.
Another possibility is stop using PayPal and ask for cash but there are so many disadvantages with that, that I don't think you would want to go that way.
Also think of the service you provide to your customers. Most of them will understand that there are hidden costs and you need to cover them somehow.
Besides that, if the buyer has to mail his payment, his or her costs will go up much more than just a 10 or 20 cents shipping cost increase.


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oldguy
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03 Sep 2021
01:58:01pm
re: PayPal Killing Me Slowly

There are several new alternatives to paypal available today. For instance, my bank offer a program call Zelle where you exchange email addresses and money can be transfer at no cost between parties. So you might consider offering alternative payment services.

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sheepshanks
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03 Sep 2021
02:35:02pm
re: PayPal Killing Me Slowly

Cardstamp, not seeing the problem, you have $14.85 more than if you had not sold any stamps, I'd call that a win.
To remedy any loss (that you feel you are having) you will need to increase your shipping/handling to cover the PayPal fees and cost of stationary and postage.
If the buyers really want the stamps then they will pay your asking price.
I often purchase items where the final price is far more than the cost of the stamps. Although I do steer clear of any of those items with ridiculous postal costs under the "Global shipping program".
None of which takes into account you paying yourself minimum wage for all the time it takes or the taxes due to the government on your sales.

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Webpaper
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03 Sep 2021
03:17:36pm
re: PayPal Killing Me Slowly

It's called overhead. Believe me - doing a stamp show is far more expensive than mail order. A two or three day show adds in the cost of transportation, hotel room , meals, etc. Take a two day show - throw in a blizzard and you can end up not covering your costs with sales - happened to me a couple of times.


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Brechinite
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Neddie Seagoon from The Telegoons
03 Sep 2021
06:02:17pm

Auctions - Approvals
re: PayPal Killing Me Slowly

Quote:

"doing a stamp show is far more expensive than mail order."



At least with mail order there is no chance of the exhaust falling off the car or you getting a puncture!!
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cougar
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03 Sep 2021
10:27:28pm

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re: PayPal Killing Me Slowly

Steve, I use the platform just like Bob described - to trade duplicates.

While the rising costs bother me to the extent that a third party like Paypal will get money for no work and no product sold by them, I am more focused on the "fun" part.

Don't get me wrong; if I have a way to save on postage , I do so. The covers I use are usually business covers from the business I work for.

The more important factor in our hobby is time. If we consider spending time on listing stamps for sale or spending time browsing through listings to buy stamps,to be fun, we are winning! If we think of it as time that should be paid at a certain rate - at least minimum wage - we will be probably losing all the time.

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cardstamp
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03 Sep 2021
11:20:40pm

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re: PayPal Killing Me Slowly

My original commment should have specified that I was really talking about the other site that I sell stamps on where there are selling fees on top of the PayPal fees. Here on SOR since there are no fees - I really have nothing to complain about. I am not doing this as a business. I started as an extension of my own hobby. I started by selling off huge parts of my father's collection for countries I do no collect myself or duplicates of what I already had in my own collection. Over the last few years I have been buying collections I see that help fill in my own needs and then I am able to sell off the duplicates. Most of the time I break even - so buying the collections winds up not costing me anything. If I make a small profit - it goes towards a nice dinner out once in awhile. I was just wondering what other sellers were doing in regards to their shipping charges. I was wondering if my terms which I just changed are too high already or not. I certainly do not want to increase them again but I started offering a discount for payments by check or cash here only. Thanks, Steve

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BrightonPete
04 Sep 2021
06:08:39am
re: PayPal Killing Me Slowly

I'd be like cougar. I have so many German and New Zealand duplicates that I'd like to sell. But not being sure of this marketplace or of PayPal, I have yet to start. Maybe one day, but by then the PayPal fees would probably eat up too much. I like Canada's Interac Transfer, bank-bank free transfers. Just too bad it is for Canada only. I love the European way!


Peter

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DaveSheridan
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04 Sep 2021
06:50:08am
re: PayPal Killing Me Slowly

As a variety hunter, bulk NZ would be of interest to me, AND I'd pay your Paypal fees (as is done on Delcampe)

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lerivage
05 Sep 2021
11:20:11am
re: PayPal Killing Me Slowly

What's wrong to specify the payment fees? I add them to the invoice and now, I discover this is not allowed.

In Europe and the UK, I use the free bank transfer. In Canada I use Interac. In the US my bank send a cheque to the recipient.

When sellers insist for PayPal, I use PayPal, although I do not like.

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cdj1122
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Silence in the face of adversity is the father of complicity and collusion, the first cousins of conspiracy..
05 Sep 2021
12:11:33pm
re: PayPal Killing Me Slowly

".... What's wrong to specify the payment fees?
I add them to the invoice and now, I discover
this is not allowed. ...."


Where does it say that shipping or handling fes are
not allowed ?
The Shipping Rules States that such fees must be
described along with the seller's lot terms..



Stamporama Rule
D. Shipping Terms:


D1. Sellers must create their payment and shipping terms. Unless listed as optional, the terms must include, at a minimum, the following information:

Payment methods accepted or excluded.
Shipping methods (optional)
Shipping costs, including any ancillary shipping services offered
Countries/areas excluded from sales (optional)

Refund policy (optional)
Any terms and conditions of sale that are different from those in the rules and procedures.


D2. If a lot description does not include shipping terms, the seller must abide by the default terms stated below:
Postage charged to the buyer must be the exact cost of shipping the purchase from the seller to the buyer
No other fees may be charged to the buyer

And in section "E", under prohibited practice " ... excessive shipping fees are prohibited, not costs actually incurred by the seller (If properly descibed in the seller's terms and conditions. ..."



E. Unacceptable Listing Practices:

E1. The following listing practices are considered unacceptable, and may result in summary closure of an auction lot:

a. Item offered for sale is not related to stamp collecting
b. Item offered for sale is also offered for sale elsewhere
c. Item improperly identified or described
d. Seller claims that item being offered for sale has an authentication certificate but does not provide a clear and readable image of the certificate, or the certificate is not from a recognized and competent authority.
e. Image not provided, when required, or poorly created (representative, too dark, out of focus, too small, improperly cropped, etc.)
f. Description contains comparative or superlative language ("scarce", "rare", "nice", "beautiful", etc.)
g. Description contains references to future value or investment potential
h. Items are not priced competitively compared to pricing of similar material for sale by others
i. Shipping and/or handling fees are excessive

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Soundcrest
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06 Sep 2021
06:38:19am

Auctions - Approvals
re: PayPal Killing Me Slowly

Steve, I planned for postage rate increases across all sites on all things by the way I price my stamps, books etc. As my old CEO at JPMorgan said when asked about banking fines during the Great Recession - "do you really think the banks are going to pay these fines? The fines will be passed along to the customers"

My prices are such that they always accept a best offer. The best offer is accepted on my terms. So if PAYPAL fees or ebay fees rise, what I accept brings that into account. For example - once again they hit the package senders, this time media mail, my bread and butter. Up by 11%. So now when a person makes an offer, if it does not cover that extra 11 % I counter offer it. Same for stamps. I price at 60% CV, but always accept 2/3 of that price (40%). I charge $1.50 for p&h which covers postage and PAYPAL for the most part, and also add 5 cents for each additional item up to a total sale of $20. Once at $20, I ship free, and since I use discount postage it costs less than a first class letter AND as an added benefit - no one ever adds up the amount of postage that is on the envelope....... Some buy at the 60% CV rate so its wort overpricing in my opinion.

It is too much work to go back and change everything to best offer. I have been doing it for a while so probably 1/3 of my stamps are setup that way. There are certainly bargains from my store as I never change my prices, so some of the old stuff has 2005 CV's. Still, back then I did not pay much for whatever it is in the store so I don't mind selling it for less.

Here I upped them to $1.25/2.10 (dom/int). This will probably be good until the lazy useless PO workers decide that we should once again give them a raise for misdelivering and losing mail. I can only hope that one day we go to once a week mail delivery for first class mail, thus eliminating a good number of carriers and that Amazon takes all the package delivery away from them and delivers cheaper, faster and more accurate than the PO can ever dream of. We have no mail delivery here where we live. Want mail every day? Get a box. Otherwise wait until eventually the bigger city 7 miles away sends a mail truck down with mail to deliver to you (2-3 times a week). This has caused Cornwall PA's post office to be one of the most profitable in PA. No employees except the two at the desk - and one of them actually runs two PO's. The other one is only open at lunch time and sells stamps only. No package drop off. This is to me, the way the entire system should work.

Greg

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BenFranklin1902
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Tom in Exton, PA
10 Sep 2021
02:40:07pm
re: PayPal Killing Me Slowly

The "250 Free Listings A Month" lure finally got to me and I decided to sell a few things. The eBay Managed Payments are required, and so far it's not all bad. The total fees on the transactions.. both final value and whatever they are charging for the money changing are listed as one lump... On a $1.99 transaction, it was 57 cents. On $5 it was 97 cents or about 20% total. Fair enough.

Signing up for managed payments on my existing account was easy. I did have to give them my bank account info to direct deposit into it. And the last 4 digits of my SS.

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