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Sales, Swaps, Auction & Approvals/Approvals Disc. : Approval Rules

 

Author
Postings
Brechinite

11 Aug 2021
06:50:40pm

Auctions - Approvals
While going through the Rules for another reason I came across these and I thought it would be a reminder for all members:-

A. Rules For Buyers

A1. Purchasing a stamp from an approval book creates an agreement between the buyer and seller that the buyer will pay for the purchase no matter how large or how small based on the seller's terms and conditions and these rules.

A2. Buyers must pay for their purchases within 5 business days of receipt of an invoice from the seller. Buyers must notify the seller regarding any delay in payment.

A3. Buyers who have not received an invoice within 5 business days of completing purchases with a seller must contact the seller to request that an invoice be sent.
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Harvey
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This is my diabetic cat OBI! I think, therefore I am - I think! Descartes, sort of!

11 Aug 2021
07:47:39pm
re: Approval Rules

Most rules are meant as a guideline. Whenever I get an invoice I pay ASAP, if the person asks me if I want to wait until the invoice grows a bit, sometimes I say yes and sometimes I say no. In my humble opinion it's up to the seller, whatever he/she suggests is what I do. Do I contact the seller after 5 days? No, I wait to be contacted. I know that's not how the rule reads, but it's what I do. In a couple cases it has backfired. I've had several invoices cancelled (without being contacted) by sellers who assume I wouldn't be interested in paying such a small invoice. I ended up losing stamps I wanted and would have gladly paid for. I'm still finding stamps missing from my want list because of this, but am I bitter ... ? Of course not!!

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"You know you're getting old when you stoop to tie your shoelaces and wonder what else you could do while you're down there - George Burns"
amsd
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Editor, Seal News; contributor, JuicyHeads

12 Aug 2021
09:59:55am
re: Approval Rules

Harvey

our rules are not guidelines; they are rules.

if folks do not obey the rules, the other person may ask the auctioneer for assistance (hopefully first trying to solve this amicably with the other person).

many of our people treat the rules as if they were recommendations. That often then provides volumes of wonderfully amusing and titilating complaints on the discussion board as folks describe all the myriad ways folks can find to further revise the guidelines.

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Harvey
Members Picture


This is my diabetic cat OBI! I think, therefore I am - I think! Descartes, sort of!

12 Aug 2021
10:58:18am
re: Approval Rules

I understand that "rules are rules", but does that mean that if I don't contact the seller 5 days after the item is bought (assuming no invoice) then I am in the wrong. If the answer is "yes" then I really have to clean up my act!!!

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"You know you're getting old when you stoop to tie your shoelaces and wonder what else you could do while you're down there - George Burns"
hosard
Members Picture


12 Aug 2021
01:08:25pm
re: Approval Rules

I am also confused by this rule. Many sellers state in their terms of service that they invoice at a certain time each month (for example), so this 5-day notification would not seem necessary in those cases.

Ron

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rrraphy
Members Picture


Retired Consultant APS#186030

12 Aug 2021
09:20:36pm
re: Approval Rules

Given the low price of most of Approval stamps, this rule is never going to work, if sellers invoice within 5 days of sales. Buyers like to build a minimum total before being billed, and it is not the same invoice situation in Approvals and Auctions.
It exists because it is the same rule as for Auction.

Should we treat Approvals and Auctions differently for billing purposes, and have separate billing rules? I am not advocating for it, I just say that they are really different beasts, deserving their own sets of rules. And right now, Auction and Approval sales are combined in the billing, making it complicated.

On the other hand most sellers, if not all, have bent the SOR billing rule to accommodate the reality of the Approval low piece prices. Some actually state so in writing in their terms, as Roy pointed out, so I am not sure what Ian is trying to say?
Are you sending invoices Ian that are being ignored?

While we have the rule primarily to help the Auctioneer, for Approval it is a bit misaligned. In the past, it always required that I communicate via private message to clarify invoicing, and never involved the Auctioneer, for me anyway.

When I was selling on Approvals, my billing rule stated: ""I bill once a month on the first of the month, or on request"". That seems to me a lot more compatible with Approvals, and a warm and fuzzy Club atmosphere, but it will solve nothing if you have a different set of rules being enforced, or if the buyer ignores your messages.

rrr...

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"E. Rutherford: All science is either physics or stamp collecting."
michael78651

13 Aug 2021
12:17:50am
re: Approval Rules

" if sellers invoice within 5 days of sales."



The rule does not state that. It states that a buyer has to pay within 5 days of receiving an invoice. The buyer and seller work out between themselves when the buyer has finished purchasing, and requests the invoice from the seller.

THERE IS NO RULE THAT STATES A SELLER MUST SEND AN INVOICE WITHIN 5 DAYS OF A SALE.



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Harvey
Members Picture


This is my diabetic cat OBI! I think, therefore I am - I think! Descartes, sort of!

13 Aug 2021
07:40:04am
re: Approval Rules

I'm too lazy to check now, but isn't there a rule stating that buyers have to contact the seller within 5 days of buying the item? I could be wrong, that has happened before, that I have been right about being wrong! Off topic: We have several members who do not have English as their first language, it must drive them nuts when we start playing with words. As I have mentioned before I was a high school math teacher for years with many ESL students. Honestly, they knew grammar better that our non-ESL population but got lost quickly when we started word play. Does Cockney Slang get used in Britain among the immigrant population?

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"You know you're getting old when you stoop to tie your shoelaces and wonder what else you could do while you're down there - George Burns"
Brechinite

13 Aug 2021
09:15:45am

Auctions - Approvals
re: Approval Rules

On this thread that I started I said:-

"While going through the Rules for another reason I came across these and I thought it would be a reminder for all members:-"

Nothing more, nothing less.


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"Gonnae no dae that!..........Just gonnae no!"
cardstamp
Members Picture


13 Aug 2021
11:22:27am

Approvals
re: Approval Rules

First of all these are the approval book rules. On another thread related to this it has been identified that auctions have similar rules but they do not line up exactly. Anyway for approvals rule A1 and A2 are good. A3 needs work in my opinion - it should say that a buyer should request an invoice when they are done and would like one or if a long period of time has gone by and they would want one because the seller has not sent one. As a seller, I invoice whenn the invoices either have a large quantity (# of stamps or high total) or if a long period of time has passed. Not sure a 5 day rule in A3 makes any sense. Steve

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sheepshanks
Members Picture


29 Sep 2021
01:48:05pm
re: Approval Rules

Now that the approval and auction rules have been revised and updated could I please ask sellers to note a couple of the rules, as follows.
Firstly.
C8b. Single stamps and sets of stamps with a general catalog value of less than $5.00 USD that contain any or all of the defects described in Rule C8a may not be offered for sale in the auctions. No damaged stamps may be sold in the approvals.

Secondly.
C20. Each item must be identified by number. The number must be positioned so that it is clearly visible and does not overlap any other item. Numbers should preferably be located on the left side of or directly underneath the item to which it relates.

Lastly.
C21. Multiple copies of an item are limited to three, except for offerings such as: collectible cancellation types, pre-cancels, color shades, etc., and must be placed together on the same page.

I see a number of books where the item numbers are overlapping stamps and also where the bottom perforations are obscured by having a white background.
Come on folks, if you really want to sell your duplicates spend some time on presentation as I quickly dismiss any books where it is difficult to see the whole stamp.
I guess a lot of sellers have not read through the rules as currently posted, despite the reminder here.https://stamporama.com/discboard/disc_main.php?action=20&id=27985#196063
Moaning Minnie has now stopped ranting and off to make a cuppa.

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HolocaustStamps

29 Sep 2021
02:08:49pm
re: Approval Rules

As a counterpoint to my lengthy “mansplaination” on a related “Approval Book Rules” thread, I think your points are extremely warranted Vic - and certainly no unreasonable “rant”.

While adding catalogue numbers is very time consuming, and has a very poor cost-benefit ratio for sellers, certainly all sellers can easily - and absolutely should - follow the very simple rules of “no crap, accurately numbered and nicely displayed, and limit useless repetition”.

Thanks for a timely and useful (for all!) reminder Vic!

Dave.

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Author/Postings
Brechinite

11 Aug 2021
06:50:40pm

Auctions - Approvals

While going through the Rules for another reason I came across these and I thought it would be a reminder for all members:-

A. Rules For Buyers

A1. Purchasing a stamp from an approval book creates an agreement between the buyer and seller that the buyer will pay for the purchase no matter how large or how small based on the seller's terms and conditions and these rules.

A2. Buyers must pay for their purchases within 5 business days of receipt of an invoice from the seller. Buyers must notify the seller regarding any delay in payment.

A3. Buyers who have not received an invoice within 5 business days of completing purchases with a seller must contact the seller to request that an invoice be sent.

Like
Login to Like
this post

"Gonnae no dae that!..........Just gonnae no!"

This is my diabetic cat OBI! I think, therefore I am - I think! Descartes, sort of!
11 Aug 2021
07:47:39pm

re: Approval Rules

Most rules are meant as a guideline. Whenever I get an invoice I pay ASAP, if the person asks me if I want to wait until the invoice grows a bit, sometimes I say yes and sometimes I say no. In my humble opinion it's up to the seller, whatever he/she suggests is what I do. Do I contact the seller after 5 days? No, I wait to be contacted. I know that's not how the rule reads, but it's what I do. In a couple cases it has backfired. I've had several invoices cancelled (without being contacted) by sellers who assume I wouldn't be interested in paying such a small invoice. I ended up losing stamps I wanted and would have gladly paid for. I'm still finding stamps missing from my want list because of this, but am I bitter ... ? Of course not!!

Like
Login to Like
this post

"You know you're getting old when you stoop to tie your shoelaces and wonder what else you could do while you're down there - George Burns"
Members Picture
amsd

Editor, Seal News; contributor, JuicyHeads
12 Aug 2021
09:59:55am

re: Approval Rules

Harvey

our rules are not guidelines; they are rules.

if folks do not obey the rules, the other person may ask the auctioneer for assistance (hopefully first trying to solve this amicably with the other person).

many of our people treat the rules as if they were recommendations. That often then provides volumes of wonderfully amusing and titilating complaints on the discussion board as folks describe all the myriad ways folks can find to further revise the guidelines.

Like
Login to Like
this post

"Save the USPS, buy stamps; save the hobby, use commemoratives"

juicyheads.com/link. ...

This is my diabetic cat OBI! I think, therefore I am - I think! Descartes, sort of!
12 Aug 2021
10:58:18am

re: Approval Rules

I understand that "rules are rules", but does that mean that if I don't contact the seller 5 days after the item is bought (assuming no invoice) then I am in the wrong. If the answer is "yes" then I really have to clean up my act!!!

Like
Login to Like
this post

"You know you're getting old when you stoop to tie your shoelaces and wonder what else you could do while you're down there - George Burns"
Members Picture
hosard

12 Aug 2021
01:08:25pm

re: Approval Rules

I am also confused by this rule. Many sellers state in their terms of service that they invoice at a certain time each month (for example), so this 5-day notification would not seem necessary in those cases.

Ron

Like
Login to Like
this post
Members Picture
rrraphy

Retired Consultant APS#186030
12 Aug 2021
09:20:36pm

re: Approval Rules

Given the low price of most of Approval stamps, this rule is never going to work, if sellers invoice within 5 days of sales. Buyers like to build a minimum total before being billed, and it is not the same invoice situation in Approvals and Auctions.
It exists because it is the same rule as for Auction.

Should we treat Approvals and Auctions differently for billing purposes, and have separate billing rules? I am not advocating for it, I just say that they are really different beasts, deserving their own sets of rules. And right now, Auction and Approval sales are combined in the billing, making it complicated.

On the other hand most sellers, if not all, have bent the SOR billing rule to accommodate the reality of the Approval low piece prices. Some actually state so in writing in their terms, as Roy pointed out, so I am not sure what Ian is trying to say?
Are you sending invoices Ian that are being ignored?

While we have the rule primarily to help the Auctioneer, for Approval it is a bit misaligned. In the past, it always required that I communicate via private message to clarify invoicing, and never involved the Auctioneer, for me anyway.

When I was selling on Approvals, my billing rule stated: ""I bill once a month on the first of the month, or on request"". That seems to me a lot more compatible with Approvals, and a warm and fuzzy Club atmosphere, but it will solve nothing if you have a different set of rules being enforced, or if the buyer ignores your messages.

rrr...

Like
Login to Like
this post

"E. Rutherford: All science is either physics or stamp collecting."
michael78651

13 Aug 2021
12:17:50am

re: Approval Rules

" if sellers invoice within 5 days of sales."



The rule does not state that. It states that a buyer has to pay within 5 days of receiving an invoice. The buyer and seller work out between themselves when the buyer has finished purchasing, and requests the invoice from the seller.

THERE IS NO RULE THAT STATES A SELLER MUST SEND AN INVOICE WITHIN 5 DAYS OF A SALE.



Like
Login to Like
this post

This is my diabetic cat OBI! I think, therefore I am - I think! Descartes, sort of!
13 Aug 2021
07:40:04am

re: Approval Rules

I'm too lazy to check now, but isn't there a rule stating that buyers have to contact the seller within 5 days of buying the item? I could be wrong, that has happened before, that I have been right about being wrong! Off topic: We have several members who do not have English as their first language, it must drive them nuts when we start playing with words. As I have mentioned before I was a high school math teacher for years with many ESL students. Honestly, they knew grammar better that our non-ESL population but got lost quickly when we started word play. Does Cockney Slang get used in Britain among the immigrant population?

Like
Login to Like
this post

"You know you're getting old when you stoop to tie your shoelaces and wonder what else you could do while you're down there - George Burns"
Brechinite

13 Aug 2021
09:15:45am

Auctions - Approvals

re: Approval Rules

On this thread that I started I said:-

"While going through the Rules for another reason I came across these and I thought it would be a reminder for all members:-"

Nothing more, nothing less.


Like
Login to Like
this post

"Gonnae no dae that!..........Just gonnae no!"
Members Picture
cardstamp

13 Aug 2021
11:22:27am

Approvals

re: Approval Rules

First of all these are the approval book rules. On another thread related to this it has been identified that auctions have similar rules but they do not line up exactly. Anyway for approvals rule A1 and A2 are good. A3 needs work in my opinion - it should say that a buyer should request an invoice when they are done and would like one or if a long period of time has gone by and they would want one because the seller has not sent one. As a seller, I invoice whenn the invoices either have a large quantity (# of stamps or high total) or if a long period of time has passed. Not sure a 5 day rule in A3 makes any sense. Steve

Like 
5 Members
like this post.
Login to Like.

www.hipstamp.com/sto ...
Members Picture
sheepshanks

29 Sep 2021
01:48:05pm

re: Approval Rules

Now that the approval and auction rules have been revised and updated could I please ask sellers to note a couple of the rules, as follows.
Firstly.
C8b. Single stamps and sets of stamps with a general catalog value of less than $5.00 USD that contain any or all of the defects described in Rule C8a may not be offered for sale in the auctions. No damaged stamps may be sold in the approvals.

Secondly.
C20. Each item must be identified by number. The number must be positioned so that it is clearly visible and does not overlap any other item. Numbers should preferably be located on the left side of or directly underneath the item to which it relates.

Lastly.
C21. Multiple copies of an item are limited to three, except for offerings such as: collectible cancellation types, pre-cancels, color shades, etc., and must be placed together on the same page.

I see a number of books where the item numbers are overlapping stamps and also where the bottom perforations are obscured by having a white background.
Come on folks, if you really want to sell your duplicates spend some time on presentation as I quickly dismiss any books where it is difficult to see the whole stamp.
I guess a lot of sellers have not read through the rules as currently posted, despite the reminder here.https://stamporama.com/discboard/disc_main.php?action=20&id=27985#196063
Moaning Minnie has now stopped ranting and off to make a cuppa.

Like 
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HolocaustStamps

29 Sep 2021
02:08:49pm

re: Approval Rules

As a counterpoint to my lengthy “mansplaination” on a related “Approval Book Rules” thread, I think your points are extremely warranted Vic - and certainly no unreasonable “rant”.

While adding catalogue numbers is very time consuming, and has a very poor cost-benefit ratio for sellers, certainly all sellers can easily - and absolutely should - follow the very simple rules of “no crap, accurately numbered and nicely displayed, and limit useless repetition”.

Thanks for a timely and useful (for all!) reminder Vic!

Dave.

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this post

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