Discussion - Member to Member Sales - Research Center
Discussion - Member to Member Sales - Research Center
05:18:02pm
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In Scott 2020, the AR22 and AR23 have the same value, $30.00.
I went through the Gibbons Russia catalog, but the only note I could find, besides about their usage, is that those stamps are beyond the scope of the catalog.
Michel lists them, and has a note that only a small amount of the stamps exist imperf. The imperfs are known used and only on cover. No value is given, and no mention of counterfeits, but I wouldn't be surprised if counterfeits exist considering the time period.
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06:50:54pm
My 2015 Scott's has AR23 at $67.50 mint and $150 used and AR22 at $6.25 mint and $30 used. I wonder why the big change, maybe AR23 was discovered to be not as rare, your guess is as good, or maybe better, than mine!!
I also have the Gibbons Russia, that I hardly ever use, and it doesn't have them listed.
I would also bet the imperfs on E-Bay are fakes, but it's tempting to try to get one ... just in case.
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Probably because Russia is not as hot an item as it was. Values have been dropping for it.
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05:12:10pm
I kicked this old post back into gear to ask another obscure question. I've been going through my Minkus album looking at a few of the more obscure postings. I probably won't get an answer to this unless there is another serious Russia collector out there looking for weird items. My album has a listing for a version of Scott 736, the 30 denomination showing the blue parachutist in front of his plane, but with the 3 and the 0 of 30 joined. Has anyone ever run into this? I don't really even have a number for it!! I'm going to really get brave and have a look through my Stanley Gibbons!!
Edit: SG just got me more confused than I was when I started!! I've had that happen before!!
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Hi Harvey,
I've had a look in SG and Michel and I may have found the stamp.
SG has two types of the 1946/47 30 kopek litho stamp:
SG 1214d blue type I - lines of shading on nose of airplane extend to nose cap, letters of inscription normal.
SG 1214e deep blue type II - lines of shading stop short of nose cap; letters of inscription thicker, much finer impression throughout.
SG's drawing of type II appears to show a white ring around the propeller but it it doesn't show the figures at all.
Michel's listing also has two litho ("Odr.") types, one appears to be a perf variant (= SG 1214ea) and the other is:
Mi 682 II A blue to grey-blue - height 22 mm, figures close together, white line around the propeller.
in contrast, Michel describes the 30 kopek typo stamp as having a ¼ mm gap between the figures in "30".
The listings are organised quite differently and I'm happy to be corrected!
P.S. Michel also includes a direct litho (as opposed to offset litho) version ("Stdr.") which I guess corresponds to SG 1214d but I don't see any notes on any design differences.
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07:17:05pm
"Mi 682 II A blue to grey-blue - height 22 mm, figures close together, white line around the propeller."
It sounds like this is what I want, now all I have to do is find it - sounds easy if you say it real fast!!
My Minkus also has it as Lithographed as opposed to typographed. I don't know yet whether that makes the process easier or harder. What I plan on doing is just trying to find one where the 3 and 0 are pretty much joined. The one I have in the book as Scott #736 has the numbers definitely separated!!
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I've had a quick look at my stamps and I only have three with this design.
The third one here looks a reasonable candidate given the white ring around the propeller but the postmark is in a terrible position to see the figures!
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10:17:40pm
Thanks Nigel. IMHO it looks like, through the post mark, that it is almost touching, which to me would be right. Especially with the white line around the propeller. That's what I'll zone in on from now on! Thanks again, this place rarely fails me!!!
I was just looking on line and I think I found one!! https://www.ebay.ca/itm/285088599569?has ...
I'll know for sure when it arrives and for that price it was certainly worth the gamble. It has the white line so it's a variety anyway!
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Hi Harvey,
Here are the same three stamps zooming in on the letters at the bottom right.
SG refers to the thicker letters on the right-hand stamp:
Thanks for raising this issue. I've never got round to sorting these issues properly and it's been fun. 
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11:28:45am
Can I try one more? On the same page as the one you just helped me with there is another mystery I can't solve!! There are two stamps together, one is Scott #743 which I have. 
. Directly next to it is a caption which says "30K on 40K" with no picture of course. The only 40K I can come up with is Scott #619 which I also have. By the way I am stealing these images on-line since scanning is not an option. Here is #619 
Now the problem! Nowhere in my Scott's or Stanley Gibbons can I find a reference to this stamp or any other small 40K that is overprinted 30K. Can anyone help? If nothing comes forward I'm just going to come up (eventually) with a 743a to put in the space! It seems like a more obvious thing to do anyway!! If it helps any the Minkus number for this stamp is 813 but I doubt if any of us has access to a Minkus catalog!
By the way Nigel, I'm glad you're having fun! I now have a full page of over 100 Ukrainian trident overprints that I am eventually going to try to sort by region. I'm not sure how much fun it will be but it will be quite a challenge. I might wait until I can get more because I think the more I have the easier it might be to spot the differences. Or maybe I'm just putting it off a bit! My eyes are not as good as they used to be and also my wife, being a librarian, was much better at this sort of thing!
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Hi Harvey,
My old 2009 Scott has:
Sc #743 30k on 4k claret
Sc #743a unwatermarked
so I wonder if your Minkus page has a space for #743a and the "30k on 40k" is a typo?
I look forward to seeing your tridents.
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11:58:04am
"I wonder if your Minkus page has a space for #743a and the "30k on 40k" is a typo?"
That's a definite possibility! If no one can come up with anything there are a couple used 743a's on E-bay for reasonable prices. I'll make sure if I pick one up that the person accepts returns or is someone I have previous good experience with, or hopefully both!!
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04:44:57pm
There are Minkus catalogs for sale on E-Bay but just for the few things I would use it for I don't really want to spend the money. If anyone has one that covers Russia would you be so kind to look up #813 and see what it shows. A scan would be great if you're able to do it!!
Edit: Not to do with this exact issue but I just did a quick count and I have exactly 103 trident overprints to sort into regions of Ukraine with 13 different handstamps!! The best explanation seems to be in SG. Does anyone out there have the SG pages for early Ukraine? Is there an expert among you that I could send the stamps to - just kidding!! I've started looking at the various overprints and it's almost possible to do! 
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Hi Harvey
I have SG Russia 5th edition 1999, which has 4 pages of Ukraine National Republic. I could copy them and email or whatsapp them to you - I haven't had much luck attaching pics to an SoR message.
Best - Neville
PS - I was given this cat by Guthrum, of blessed memory.
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08:33:44am
Thanks Neville but I already have a recent SG. I'm wondering if anyone has a copy of a Minkus CATALOG containing Russia who could check and see what they have listed for Minkus #813. I like the way SG does the Ukrainian material and wonder if anyone has the SG ALBUM who might be able to send me a scan of the album pages, not the catalog pages. I really don't want to buy the SG Russia album just for a few pages. I'll be travelling to see my dealer soon to get my British Columbia stamps scanned and I'll see what he can do for me as well. Thanks for the interest Neville, I'm sure the Ukrainian regionals will be a real challenge. I'd still really like to know if any of you have tried this yet!
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05:58:48pm
One more and then I'll stop this for a while! Here is a block of four of a young Trotsky (SG JUST CALLS HIM A YOUNG HERO!) from 1926 that was never issued. It supposedly exists in both watermarked and unwatermarked condition. This is my unwatermarked version. Has anyone ever run into the watermarked version of this stamp?
. I'd really like to have it since my Minkus album shows both versions but since this is actually mounted over both positions it really doesn't matter that much. I'm just curious if anyone has ever run into it!
NOTE: I paid $80 for this block when I eventually saw it offered on E-Bay. I had nothing to base my price on since it was only mentioned in SG and not mentioned in Scott's at all. I have no idea if it is even rare! All I know is that when I saw it I grabbed it, probably not the smartest thing to do. They were to be part of a semi-postal series, B48 - B53 in Scott's, but were never issued. The other stamps in the series are not very pricey!
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This is my diabetic cat OBI! I think, therefore I am - I think! Descartes, sort of!
01 Jun 2021
05:18:02pm
I'm hoping someone can help me with this. There is a series of Russian general revenue stamps from 1918 - AR15 to AR25. I have all except the 2r violet stamp, it is the most expensive by quite a bit. I see a few imperforate ones on E-Bay for much lower prices, so I assume they are forgeries of some sort. Does anyone out there have a specialty catalog that shows this version? Scott's has the series perforated with no imperforate version noted.
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06:35:41pm
re: Question for a very serious Russia collector
In Scott 2020, the AR22 and AR23 have the same value, $30.00.
I went through the Gibbons Russia catalog, but the only note I could find, besides about their usage, is that those stamps are beyond the scope of the catalog.
Michel lists them, and has a note that only a small amount of the stamps exist imperf. The imperfs are known used and only on cover. No value is given, and no mention of counterfeits, but I wouldn't be surprised if counterfeits exist considering the time period.
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This is my diabetic cat OBI! I think, therefore I am - I think! Descartes, sort of!
01 Jun 2021
06:50:54pm
re: Question for a very serious Russia collector
My 2015 Scott's has AR23 at $67.50 mint and $150 used and AR22 at $6.25 mint and $30 used. I wonder why the big change, maybe AR23 was discovered to be not as rare, your guess is as good, or maybe better, than mine!!
I also have the Gibbons Russia, that I hardly ever use, and it doesn't have them listed.
I would also bet the imperfs on E-Bay are fakes, but it's tempting to try to get one ... just in case.
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07:15:15pm
re: Question for a very serious Russia collector
Probably because Russia is not as hot an item as it was. Values have been dropping for it.
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This is my diabetic cat OBI! I think, therefore I am - I think! Descartes, sort of!
08 Mar 2023
05:12:10pm
re: Question for a very serious Russia collector
I kicked this old post back into gear to ask another obscure question. I've been going through my Minkus album looking at a few of the more obscure postings. I probably won't get an answer to this unless there is another serious Russia collector out there looking for weird items. My album has a listing for a version of Scott 736, the 30 denomination showing the blue parachutist in front of his plane, but with the 3 and the 0 of 30 joined. Has anyone ever run into this? I don't really even have a number for it!! I'm going to really get brave and have a look through my Stanley Gibbons!!
Edit: SG just got me more confused than I was when I started!! I've had that happen before!!
Login to Like
this post
re: Question for a very serious Russia collector
Hi Harvey,
I've had a look in SG and Michel and I may have found the stamp.
SG has two types of the 1946/47 30 kopek litho stamp:
SG 1214d blue type I - lines of shading on nose of airplane extend to nose cap, letters of inscription normal.
SG 1214e deep blue type II - lines of shading stop short of nose cap; letters of inscription thicker, much finer impression throughout.
SG's drawing of type II appears to show a white ring around the propeller but it it doesn't show the figures at all.
Michel's listing also has two litho ("Odr.") types, one appears to be a perf variant (= SG 1214ea) and the other is:
Mi 682 II A blue to grey-blue - height 22 mm, figures close together, white line around the propeller.
in contrast, Michel describes the 30 kopek typo stamp as having a ¼ mm gap between the figures in "30".
The listings are organised quite differently and I'm happy to be corrected!
P.S. Michel also includes a direct litho (as opposed to offset litho) version ("Stdr.") which I guess corresponds to SG 1214d but I don't see any notes on any design differences.
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This is my diabetic cat OBI! I think, therefore I am - I think! Descartes, sort of!
08 Mar 2023
07:17:05pm
re: Question for a very serious Russia collector
"Mi 682 II A blue to grey-blue - height 22 mm, figures close together, white line around the propeller."
It sounds like this is what I want, now all I have to do is find it - sounds easy if you say it real fast!!
My Minkus also has it as Lithographed as opposed to typographed. I don't know yet whether that makes the process easier or harder. What I plan on doing is just trying to find one where the 3 and 0 are pretty much joined. The one I have in the book as Scott #736 has the numbers definitely separated!!
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re: Question for a very serious Russia collector
I've had a quick look at my stamps and I only have three with this design.
The third one here looks a reasonable candidate given the white ring around the propeller but the postmark is in a terrible position to see the figures!
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This is my diabetic cat OBI! I think, therefore I am - I think! Descartes, sort of!
08 Mar 2023
10:17:40pm
re: Question for a very serious Russia collector
Thanks Nigel. IMHO it looks like, through the post mark, that it is almost touching, which to me would be right. Especially with the white line around the propeller. That's what I'll zone in on from now on! Thanks again, this place rarely fails me!!!
I was just looking on line and I think I found one!! https://www.ebay.ca/itm/285088599569?has ...
I'll know for sure when it arrives and for that price it was certainly worth the gamble. It has the white line so it's a variety anyway!
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re: Question for a very serious Russia collector
Hi Harvey,
Here are the same three stamps zooming in on the letters at the bottom right.
SG refers to the thicker letters on the right-hand stamp:
Thanks for raising this issue. I've never got round to sorting these issues properly and it's been fun.
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this post
This is my diabetic cat OBI! I think, therefore I am - I think! Descartes, sort of!
10 Mar 2023
11:28:45am
re: Question for a very serious Russia collector
Can I try one more? On the same page as the one you just helped me with there is another mystery I can't solve!! There are two stamps together, one is Scott #743 which I have. . Directly next to it is a caption which says "30K on 40K" with no picture of course. The only 40K I can come up with is Scott #619 which I also have. By the way I am stealing these images on-line since scanning is not an option. Here is #619 Now the problem! Nowhere in my Scott's or Stanley Gibbons can I find a reference to this stamp or any other small 40K that is overprinted 30K. Can anyone help? If nothing comes forward I'm just going to come up (eventually) with a 743a to put in the space! It seems like a more obvious thing to do anyway!! If it helps any the Minkus number for this stamp is 813 but I doubt if any of us has access to a Minkus catalog!
By the way Nigel, I'm glad you're having fun! I now have a full page of over 100 Ukrainian trident overprints that I am eventually going to try to sort by region. I'm not sure how much fun it will be but it will be quite a challenge. I might wait until I can get more because I think the more I have the easier it might be to spot the differences. Or maybe I'm just putting it off a bit! My eyes are not as good as they used to be and also my wife, being a librarian, was much better at this sort of thing!
Login to Like
this post
re: Question for a very serious Russia collector
Hi Harvey,
My old 2009 Scott has:
Sc #743 30k on 4k claret
Sc #743a unwatermarked
so I wonder if your Minkus page has a space for #743a and the "30k on 40k" is a typo?
I look forward to seeing your tridents.
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This is my diabetic cat OBI! I think, therefore I am - I think! Descartes, sort of!
10 Mar 2023
11:58:04am
re: Question for a very serious Russia collector
"I wonder if your Minkus page has a space for #743a and the "30k on 40k" is a typo?"
That's a definite possibility! If no one can come up with anything there are a couple used 743a's on E-bay for reasonable prices. I'll make sure if I pick one up that the person accepts returns or is someone I have previous good experience with, or hopefully both!!
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this post
This is my diabetic cat OBI! I think, therefore I am - I think! Descartes, sort of!
10 Mar 2023
04:44:57pm
re: Question for a very serious Russia collector
There are Minkus catalogs for sale on E-Bay but just for the few things I would use it for I don't really want to spend the money. If anyone has one that covers Russia would you be so kind to look up #813 and see what it shows. A scan would be great if you're able to do it!!
Edit: Not to do with this exact issue but I just did a quick count and I have exactly 103 trident overprints to sort into regions of Ukraine with 13 different handstamps!! The best explanation seems to be in SG. Does anyone out there have the SG pages for early Ukraine? Is there an expert among you that I could send the stamps to - just kidding!! I've started looking at the various overprints and it's almost possible to do!
Login to Like
this post
re: Question for a very serious Russia collector
Hi Harvey
I have SG Russia 5th edition 1999, which has 4 pages of Ukraine National Republic. I could copy them and email or whatsapp them to you - I haven't had much luck attaching pics to an SoR message.
Best - Neville
PS - I was given this cat by Guthrum, of blessed memory.
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This is my diabetic cat OBI! I think, therefore I am - I think! Descartes, sort of!
11 Mar 2023
08:33:44am
re: Question for a very serious Russia collector
Thanks Neville but I already have a recent SG. I'm wondering if anyone has a copy of a Minkus CATALOG containing Russia who could check and see what they have listed for Minkus #813. I like the way SG does the Ukrainian material and wonder if anyone has the SG ALBUM who might be able to send me a scan of the album pages, not the catalog pages. I really don't want to buy the SG Russia album just for a few pages. I'll be travelling to see my dealer soon to get my British Columbia stamps scanned and I'll see what he can do for me as well. Thanks for the interest Neville, I'm sure the Ukrainian regionals will be a real challenge. I'd still really like to know if any of you have tried this yet!
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This is my diabetic cat OBI! I think, therefore I am - I think! Descartes, sort of!
13 Mar 2023
05:58:48pm
re: Question for a very serious Russia collector
One more and then I'll stop this for a while! Here is a block of four of a young Trotsky (SG JUST CALLS HIM A YOUNG HERO!) from 1926 that was never issued. It supposedly exists in both watermarked and unwatermarked condition. This is my unwatermarked version. Has anyone ever run into the watermarked version of this stamp?
. I'd really like to have it since my Minkus album shows both versions but since this is actually mounted over both positions it really doesn't matter that much. I'm just curious if anyone has ever run into it!
NOTE: I paid $80 for this block when I eventually saw it offered on E-Bay. I had nothing to base my price on since it was only mentioned in SG and not mentioned in Scott's at all. I have no idea if it is even rare! All I know is that when I saw it I grabbed it, probably not the smartest thing to do. They were to be part of a semi-postal series, B48 - B53 in Scott's, but were never issued. The other stamps in the series are not very pricey!
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