Discussion - Member to Member Sales - Research Center
Discussion - Member to Member Sales - Research Center
I think they do it at our local post office...i can understand if they are U.S. stamps but why mutilate stamps from other countries ?
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Hi,
This type of cancellation is actually illegal at Canadian Post Offices, according to the post mistress at my local post office. They must be cancelled with a stamp with a date. I did see one of her assistants do this to one of my letters I'm sending and actually shouted at her to stop. After a discussion with the post mistress this type of scribble on stamps now has stopped, and all my sent letters and parcels are carefully cancelled with a clear stamp showing the post office and date.
Cheers,
John
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It is against the rules in the USA.
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"It is against the rules in the USA"
I'm calling the USPS Postal Police. I assume jail time is proportional to the value of the stamps mutilated?
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Never call the cops !
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You can say that again! Phil.
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My customer, who is a letter carrier, here in Ottawa, has been instructed to cancel all skipped stamps with a crayon or grease pencil.
David G
Ottawa, Ont Canada
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And recent postally used commems from Ukraine do not seem that easy to come by...
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I think this type of cover clearly states "this is from and/or to a stamp collector". As such, it then becomes a target for a disgruntled/unstable postal worker.
The fact that they don't just put a single stroke through the stamp (as I have seen countless times) but purposely scribble over the stamps is what a CSI person would undoubtedly describe as "overkill" - a clear indicator that this is "personal". And the fact that Tony has gotten a couple of these is also telling - perhaps your postie is philatelaphobic.
If I was Tony, I'd ask my neighbours if this has happened to them (chances are the answer will be "no", especially if their letters arrive with just one or a couple "regular" stamps). I'd also consider complaining to the postal authorities and ask them if they feel this is an appropriate action.
It really is disheartening that some people in the business of delivering mail - especially when it is obviously from/to someone who loves stamps (people who keep them employed BTW!) - decides to be a destructive vigilante.
Dave.
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11:20:49pm
" ... It is against the rules in the USA. ..."
Can anyone quote where in the DMM this might be found ?
It would save me hours of searching through postal gibberish tomorrow.
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i'd be interested in seeing this rule, too. I'd never heard of it before. And it always seemed to me that revenue protection trumped any policies on use of killing devices.
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Jings!.....Crivvens!.....Help Ma Boab!
A question for those that collect stamps that are "used" or "been through the postal system"
surely the use of pens, sharpies, nails, sellotape, labels or moose poo qualifies to be collected as the stamps are "used" and "been through the postal system"?
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I suspect that this often gets confused with the regulations stated in the USPS manual regarding philatelic postmarking.
In that regard, it is not forbidden, but is frowned upon.
This from the manual regarding philatelic mail;
"164.221 Clear and Legible Postmarks. Employees should strive to furnish clear and
legible postmarks to stamp collectors by ensuring that cancellation machines and hand-stamp
devices are properly inked. Postal employees must give special attention to mail bearing an
endorsement of philatelic value or to requests for light cancellations and should avoid canceling
stamps by pen or illegible smudging; however, stamps must be canceled sufficiently to protect
postal revenue.
"
As far as I know, there is no actual rule/regulation against cancelling stamps that defaces the stamp.
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" bearing an endorsement of philatelic value or to requests for light cancellations "
I think this is the nub of the issue.
Maybe we should add the phrase "Philatelic Value" on all our envelopes/packages. Or please cancel under rule 164.221
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thanks Randy
the emphasis is on protecting postal revenue; all other elements are guidance and suggestions, and require an endorsement by the sender to alert postal employees of these suggestions.
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Now if you do not want date time cancels, and want to have nice stamps, check out what arrived in the mail today. Check out the cancels.
But, If you like nice date time cancels, check out the next.
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I will admit to being the sender of the 2nd example Mel posted.
In past, I have had members tell me the envelopes sometimes arrive without any cancellation or mutilated with pen marks (generally the former, seldom the latter). While these often find their way back to The Holocaust Stamps Project as donations, I know that some recipients have been disappointed that they didn't get a decent cancelled stamp.
So lately I have been driving them to my local postal outlet, rather than just putting them in a drop box near my home. Then I ask the clerk to use a circular cancel (like the one shown on Mel's envelope) which they are happy to do (although sometimes they use an oblong version).
It's a little more time/work and sometimes delays mailings a bit (I wait until I have a handful to mail, to save gas money) but I think by and large members appreciate seeing a variety of stamps with a decent cancel.
Dave.
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I do the same thing, Dave! I take the letters inside and have them apply the rectangular cancel to my letters!
I learned one of the clerks is a stamp collector as well. I was talking to him the other day & he said he found a round steel hammer canceller for Brighton! Although there's no year in it, he wants to resurrect it for guys like me that come in for special cancellations! I only have one, from the 1880's! Those cancels from my town are few & far between!
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Interesting, Pete.
I've often wondered if there are/were official mandates to destroy obsolete cancelling devices. It would seem that these could be used for nefarious purposes - creating "fake" cancellations that would be indistinguishable from "genuine", for example.
Like, what would stop your stamp collecting postal employee from setting the date on his old Brighton cancelling device to a 19th century date, and cancelling some mint stamps to increase their value? Or, creating some covers cancelled on historical dates? Old fake first-day covers?
Or, maybe postal authorities aren't worried/don't care about this.
How many vintage cancelling devices are out there?
-Paul
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11:13:26am
I live next to a house in my community that used to house the community post office in Black Point, Nova Scotia. The lady who ran it retired in the mid 1980's and, since I was running an antique store at the time, gave me the original (1940's) post office sign and the post office stamping equipment to do wish as I pleased. I kept the sign and will pass it on to the community center in nearby Hubbards at some point. The stamping equipment I sold, I really should have kept it! Anyway, it's out there somewhere in the collection of a person who collects that type of item. If he wanted to use it to make fake cancellations I suppose he could. There's probably a lot of that stuff out there!
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I’ve seen US cancellation devices for sale on eBay. I don’t know how the sellers came into them. I thought to bid on one just to have an old time steel cancel in my collection but they sold for more than I’d pay.
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Are the postal police like the fish police. Cause they are tough. Dont mess with fish. 
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re: Killer cancels
I think they do it at our local post office...i can understand if they are U.S. stamps but why mutilate stamps from other countries ?
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this post
re: Killer cancels
Hi,
This type of cancellation is actually illegal at Canadian Post Offices, according to the post mistress at my local post office. They must be cancelled with a stamp with a date. I did see one of her assistants do this to one of my letters I'm sending and actually shouted at her to stop. After a discussion with the post mistress this type of scribble on stamps now has stopped, and all my sent letters and parcels are carefully cancelled with a clear stamp showing the post office and date.
Cheers,
John
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re: Killer cancels
It is against the rules in the USA.
Login to Like
this post
re: Killer cancels
"It is against the rules in the USA"
I'm calling the USPS Postal Police. I assume jail time is proportional to the value of the stamps mutilated?
3 Members
like this post.
Login to Like.
re: Killer cancels
Never call the cops !
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this post
Approvals
re: Killer cancels
You can say that again! Phil.
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this post
re: Killer cancels
My customer, who is a letter carrier, here in Ottawa, has been instructed to cancel all skipped stamps with a crayon or grease pencil.
David G
Ottawa, Ont Canada
Login to Like
this post
re: Killer cancels
And recent postally used commems from Ukraine do not seem that easy to come by...
2 Members
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08:22:21pm
re: Killer cancels
I think this type of cover clearly states "this is from and/or to a stamp collector". As such, it then becomes a target for a disgruntled/unstable postal worker.
The fact that they don't just put a single stroke through the stamp (as I have seen countless times) but purposely scribble over the stamps is what a CSI person would undoubtedly describe as "overkill" - a clear indicator that this is "personal". And the fact that Tony has gotten a couple of these is also telling - perhaps your postie is philatelaphobic.
If I was Tony, I'd ask my neighbours if this has happened to them (chances are the answer will be "no", especially if their letters arrive with just one or a couple "regular" stamps). I'd also consider complaining to the postal authorities and ask them if they feel this is an appropriate action.
It really is disheartening that some people in the business of delivering mail - especially when it is obviously from/to someone who loves stamps (people who keep them employed BTW!) - decides to be a destructive vigilante.
Dave.
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Silence in the face of adversity is the father of complicity and collusion, the first cousins of conspiracy..
10 Apr 2021
11:20:49pm
re: Killer cancels
" ... It is against the rules in the USA. ..."
Can anyone quote where in the DMM this might be found ?
It would save me hours of searching through postal gibberish tomorrow.
Login to Like
this post
re: Killer cancels
i'd be interested in seeing this rule, too. I'd never heard of it before. And it always seemed to me that revenue protection trumped any policies on use of killing devices.
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this post
09:01:36am
Approvals
re: Killer cancels
Jings!.....Crivvens!.....Help Ma Boab!
A question for those that collect stamps that are "used" or "been through the postal system"
surely the use of pens, sharpies, nails, sellotape, labels or moose poo qualifies to be collected as the stamps are "used" and "been through the postal system"?
2 Members
like this post.
Login to Like.
re: Killer cancels
I suspect that this often gets confused with the regulations stated in the USPS manual regarding philatelic postmarking.
In that regard, it is not forbidden, but is frowned upon.
This from the manual regarding philatelic mail;
"164.221 Clear and Legible Postmarks. Employees should strive to furnish clear and
legible postmarks to stamp collectors by ensuring that cancellation machines and hand-stamp
devices are properly inked. Postal employees must give special attention to mail bearing an
endorsement of philatelic value or to requests for light cancellations and should avoid canceling
stamps by pen or illegible smudging; however, stamps must be canceled sufficiently to protect
postal revenue.
"
As far as I know, there is no actual rule/regulation against cancelling stamps that defaces the stamp.
Login to Like
this post
06:11:00pm
Approvals
re: Killer cancels
" bearing an endorsement of philatelic value or to requests for light cancellations "
I think this is the nub of the issue.
Maybe we should add the phrase "Philatelic Value" on all our envelopes/packages. Or please cancel under rule 164.221
Login to Like
this post
re: Killer cancels
thanks Randy
the emphasis is on protecting postal revenue; all other elements are guidance and suggestions, and require an endorsement by the sender to alert postal employees of these suggestions.
Login to Like
this post
re: Killer cancels
Now if you do not want date time cancels, and want to have nice stamps, check out what arrived in the mail today. Check out the cancels.
But, If you like nice date time cancels, check out the next.
1 Member
likes this post.
Login to Like.
08:46:22pm
re: Killer cancels
I will admit to being the sender of the 2nd example Mel posted.
In past, I have had members tell me the envelopes sometimes arrive without any cancellation or mutilated with pen marks (generally the former, seldom the latter). While these often find their way back to The Holocaust Stamps Project as donations, I know that some recipients have been disappointed that they didn't get a decent cancelled stamp.
So lately I have been driving them to my local postal outlet, rather than just putting them in a drop box near my home. Then I ask the clerk to use a circular cancel (like the one shown on Mel's envelope) which they are happy to do (although sometimes they use an oblong version).
It's a little more time/work and sometimes delays mailings a bit (I wait until I have a handful to mail, to save gas money) but I think by and large members appreciate seeing a variety of stamps with a decent cancel.
Dave.
2 Members
like this post.
Login to Like.
re: Killer cancels
I do the same thing, Dave! I take the letters inside and have them apply the rectangular cancel to my letters!
I learned one of the clerks is a stamp collector as well. I was talking to him the other day & he said he found a round steel hammer canceller for Brighton! Although there's no year in it, he wants to resurrect it for guys like me that come in for special cancellations! I only have one, from the 1880's! Those cancels from my town are few & far between!
1 Member
likes this post.
Login to Like.
10:57:21am
re: Killer cancels
Interesting, Pete.
I've often wondered if there are/were official mandates to destroy obsolete cancelling devices. It would seem that these could be used for nefarious purposes - creating "fake" cancellations that would be indistinguishable from "genuine", for example.
Like, what would stop your stamp collecting postal employee from setting the date on his old Brighton cancelling device to a 19th century date, and cancelling some mint stamps to increase their value? Or, creating some covers cancelled on historical dates? Old fake first-day covers?
Or, maybe postal authorities aren't worried/don't care about this.
How many vintage cancelling devices are out there?
-Paul
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This is my diabetic cat OBI! I think, therefore I am - I think! Descartes, sort of!
25 Apr 2021
11:13:26am
re: Killer cancels
I live next to a house in my community that used to house the community post office in Black Point, Nova Scotia. The lady who ran it retired in the mid 1980's and, since I was running an antique store at the time, gave me the original (1940's) post office sign and the post office stamping equipment to do wish as I pleased. I kept the sign and will pass it on to the community center in nearby Hubbards at some point. The stamping equipment I sold, I really should have kept it! Anyway, it's out there somewhere in the collection of a person who collects that type of item. If he wanted to use it to make fake cancellations I suppose he could. There's probably a lot of that stuff out there!
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likes this post.
Login to Like.
re: Killer cancels
I’ve seen US cancellation devices for sale on eBay. I don’t know how the sellers came into them. I thought to bid on one just to have an old time steel cancel in my collection but they sold for more than I’d pay.
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09:24:14pm
re: Killer cancels
Are the postal police like the fish police. Cause they are tough. Dont mess with fish.
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