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Sales, Swaps, Auction & Approvals/Auction Disc. : What should we do if...

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Harvey
I think, therefore I am - I think!
14 Feb 2021
02:25:09pm
This has happened to me a couple times and I don't follow up on it because the items have had low value. Say we see an item we want because our want list says we need that number and then we notice that the seller's number is wrong. Should I ask the seller to cancel the sale due to his/her mistake or should I accept the sale of the item because I should have checked the seller's number before buying the object? It does say that bids are binding. As I said, so far I've done nothing because the items have been of low value. But, what if it were an expensive item - should the seller or myself be considered to be at fault? I'm sure others have had the same experience.
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Brechinite
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Neddie Seagoon from The Telegoons
14 Feb 2021
03:11:15pm

Auctions - Approvals
re: What should we do if...

Buyer Beware:-

Simply catalogue numbers change and catalogue suppliers especially Gibbons Stamps of the World do not list every variant and the same goes with Scotts and Scotts specialised.

It all depends on what catalogue the Seller uses. He lists in good faith. The sellers experience/knowledge may not be as good as yours and a genuine mistake can easily be made.

So Buyer Beware!!

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Harvey
I think, therefore I am - I think!
14 Feb 2021
03:34:17pm
re: What should we do if...

I agree Ian, that's why I never make a deal about it. If the item is more expensive I check the dealer's ID more carefully. But, on another level, I've seen seller's who have definitely made mistakes in numbers - reversing digits, etc. But we should be able to catch that.

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jbaxter5256
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14 Feb 2021
03:58:31pm
re: What should we do if...

I normally buy based on the picture of the item and make the simplifying assumption that the picture is accurate. That has been true for every lot I have purchased to date with three exceptions, two where the seller cancelled the sale when he checked it for shipping and one where I received the item but it would have cost more to return the item which was part of a larger group than it was worth. I have received a few lots where the lack of a reverse side image caused me to purchase an item that I would have bypassed but so far the items have been inexpensive and not woth returning.

I do send messages to vendors, especially on eBay, where I can tell that there is a mismatch between the description and the picture. Friday I even noticed an item in a red box at a local dealer where the pricing for the item was under $3 for a stamp with a $35 catalog value, given that the stamp was definitely a VF+ mint non-hinged issue for a popular country it had to be an error in pricing. The dealer was appreciative and even provided me with a large Sweden collection in a Lighthouse album to take home and look for new items for my new Scott Hingeless Sweden album.

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michael78651
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14 Feb 2021
06:27:42pm
re: What should we do if...

when I find that I have made a mistake in the listing of an item I have sold, I contact the buyer and let them know. I ask if they still want the item. If not, I issue a refund. If they still want it, I send it to them.

If the buyer receives an item that I mis-described, and I did not see it before I shipped it, and the buyer contacts me about it, I see what the buyer wants, and then handle it accordingly.

Could a buyer who receives an item that was not as described file a dispute about it? Yes, but I would hope that the buyer and seller would communicate with each other to try to rectify the situation first.

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amsd
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Editor, Seal News; contributor, JuicyHeads
15 Feb 2021
02:13:59pm
re: What should we do if...

l lean towards Michael's approach: the seller is responsible for accurately listing material. Misrepresenting stuff, even with the correct picture (but wrong number) is the seller's fault.

That said, catalogue numbers change all the time; sometimes inconsequentially; other times with large impact.

I was looking at my German-Occupied Ukraine and the numbers are all different. It looks as if some Ostland stamps were inserted.

Here on SOR, I hope people find ways to resolve things amicably, but I'd always side with the guy who bought something misdescribed.

David

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Brechinite
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Neddie Seagoon from The Telegoons
15 Feb 2021
02:58:55pm

Auctions - Approvals
re: What should we do if...

Quote:

"Misrepresenting stuff, even with the correct picture (but wrong number) is the seller's fault."



Here is an extract of the Portugese "Ceres" series from Stanley Gibbons Stamps of the World.


Image Not Found


Let me draw your attention to "717" 96c Red. Mint £4.25. Used £1.90

Now tell me which one does this "value" apply to, the stamp on the left or right?

Image Not Found


They are obviously two different stamps so which stamp does the seller attribute the £1.90 too?
One of these stamps is catalogued at £25 not £1.90 (rrraphy shoosh!)

Now I know which is which as it is my field of interest BUT how does someone with less experience know?

Also if the seller "misdescribes" it and the buyer gets the £25.00 stamp instead, and here is the $64,000 question, WOULD the Buyer contact the Seller and tell them they have "misdescribed" it and here is £x ?

How Many Would?

My guess is.........not one solitary soul!!

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Harvey
I think, therefore I am - I think!
15 Feb 2021
03:32:30pm
re: What should we do if...

Honestly, I wasn't talking about that kind of mistake. This was a transposition of two numbers, not a mistake due to catalog descriptions or using another catalog. This was a mistake that anyone could make and I should have easily caught. I check my actual album if the stamp is expensive, but for cheaper items I often do not. I saw a seller once use the denomination of the stamp rather than it's number, again a mistake anyone could make. If a mistake was made due to actual catalog description, or lack of it, then no one would hold the seller at fault - unless the buyer was a real a**hole! We try not to make mistakes, but no one is perfect!

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Brechinite
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Neddie Seagoon from The Telegoons
15 Feb 2021
06:00:54pm

Auctions - Approvals
re: What should we do if...

Harvey:-

I was trying to show how a genuine mistake could occur without there being fault on either side.

Yes mistakes are made because we are all human. It is how we treat mistakes as buyers and sellers that determines outcomes.
Reasonable people will try their best to sort the problem amicably.

However there are those that approach errors and mistakes as if they have never made a mistake in their life, thus their attitude results in conflict.

The rules of stamporama are quite clear and as long as they are followed equitable solutions should be found.

However it must be said that buyers like sellers have a duty of care in acting in a reasonable manner and just because a buyer makes a mistake they should not expect a solution entirely in their favour.

There must be give and take.

Here endeth the lesson.

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Brechinite
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Neddie Seagoon from The Telegoons
15 Feb 2021
06:10:07pm

Auctions - Approvals
re: What should we do if...

Quote:

"I've seen seller's who have definitely made mistakes in numbers - reversing digits, etc."



I would like to draw everyones attention to this point.

The reversing of numbers and letters are a common result of someone suffering a form of dyslexia.

When someone has this they can check and double check what they write or type and they believe that they have written the numbers or letters in the correct sequence when in fact they have not.

I know one person that in their business life they cannot write cheques, Bank account numbers or utilise computer banking because of their dyslexia.
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Harvey
I think, therefore I am - I think!
15 Feb 2021
06:27:13pm
re: What should we do if...

Did you ever hear the one about the dyslexic, agnostic insomniac who stayed awake all night worried about whether or not there actually was a Dog Laughing Hopefully there is not an agnostic or an dyslexic person or an insomniac out there who took offence at this!

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Brechinite
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Neddie Seagoon from The Telegoons
15 Feb 2021
06:31:49pm

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re: What should we do if...

A priest, a Bhudist and a jew walked into a bar and the barman said "Is this a joke?"

Rolling On The Floor LaughingRolling On The Floor LaughingRolling On The Floor Laughing

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Harvey
I think, therefore I am - I think!
15 Feb 2021
06:40:26pm
re: What should we do if...

Ian, you have to be careful - you probably offended every Buddhist or Jew on SOR. You spelled Buddhist wrong and didn't capitalize Jew Rolling On The Floor Laughing .By the way, I'm just kidding! Even though near the end of my 34 year teaching career I had to be very careful with my sense of humour. If they didn't understand it, they assumed it must be offensive! I had to cut out puns as well since anyone who had English as a second language (like Scots!) had enough trouble figuring out what one version of a word meant. I always felt sorry for anyone who had to learn English - too many "to's, too's and two's" in this wonderful language of ours. Nerd

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Brechinite
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Neddie Seagoon from The Telegoons
15 Feb 2021
06:50:52pm

Auctions - Approvals
re: What should we do if...

Aye Harvey you have to be careful what you say today but a joke is a joke. If we cannot laugh at ourselves then it will be a sad sad world without laughter.

Some of the things that are happening nowadays are just crazy especially this trying to remove or ignore history.
History is really important as it shows how the various cultures throughout the world evolved, what good things happened and what terrible things happened.

You need to know where you came from to know where you are going.

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Harvey
I think, therefore I am - I think!
15 Feb 2021
07:04:20pm
re: What should we do if...

I am very upset about the "history thing" myself as well. Our Native population wants everything rubbed out with the name Cornwallis in it. He really was a super bad dude, so I can sort of understand that as long as we teach his history as well! By the way, I am 62.5 percent Native myself (father 100%, mother 25%... then half of 25 and 100 added), so I can open my mouth and comment a little bit! We also are supposed to suppress Sir John A. MacDonald because of the native school system. I don't think we have any right to judge a person from an earlier time period by our standards today. We also will have to get rid of anything connected to Churchill since he was a racist. And that's just the beginning! I have a huge respect for History - we should learn from it rather than ignore it or change it, which is even worse. Excuse the rant! I don't consider myself a red neck, but I guess I'm starting to sound like one; must be age!

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Webpaper
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15 Feb 2021
08:06:17pm
re: What should we do if...


“near the end of my 34 year teaching career I had to be very careful with my sense of humour”

I retired 12 years ago and the students were becoming more and more…. intolerant every year. Intolerance was an excellent topic for my sociology classes and it ties in with what Ian has been conveying in this and many other posts..

I cured most of it by assigning a mini project in my first class –“ read the lyrics to “You’ve Got to be Carefully Taught” (South Pacific) and explain what it means to you. Those of you who had me earlier tell me whether or not the exercise and discussion helped. Be honest – there is no right or wrong – I honestly just don’t want to beat my head against the wall if you are not getting anything out of it.”

The fact it kept being brought up throughout the semester was proof that it helped.

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Brechinite
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Neddie Seagoon from The Telegoons
15 Feb 2021
08:42:31pm

Auctions - Approvals
re: What should we do if...

Unfortunatly there have been "Bad Dudes" throughout history and all around the world. Even today we have a few of them.
Slavery still goes on today around the world and instead of this "cancel culture" I would respect those carrying it out more if they were expending their energy on todays problem rather than the past.
The past is past, learn from it and concentrate on today and the future.
Just my opinion.

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amsd
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Editor, Seal News; contributor, JuicyHeads
16 Feb 2021
03:05:59pm
re: What should we do if...

I am not trying to shame the hypothetical seller nor ascribe blame, nor am i warming up the tar pot.

I am pointing out that our rules protect the buyer from misidentified stamps.

as to Ian's example, I can see two different stamps. The color is slightly different, but more importantly the fonts are different. I'm guessing there's a second 96c stamps somewhere in the catalogue? or is it a forgery? or the yet undiscovered ,,,,,


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Harvey
I think, therefore I am - I think!
16 Feb 2021
03:22:33pm
re: What should we do if...

I was looking back over this post and have a question related to Ian's two stamps from Portugal. Take another example, consider the last copy of Canada #32 that was found in an American Philatelic Society sales book for less than $5 and later sold for $215 000. This is an example of the same thing, should the person who bought the stamp from the APS book be forced to return it because it was not as advertised? There is a story about a local antique dealer who offered someone $25 for a valuable Maud Lewis painting. Is this an example of seller beware as opposed to buyer beware. In this case fraud was attempted and legalities enter into it. When does this apply and when does it not? If I price something below it's value, that is much different from a person offering me under the value. How does this apply to misidentified stamps? Or does it apply at all?

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Brechinite
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Neddie Seagoon from The Telegoons
16 Feb 2021
03:48:21pm

Auctions - Approvals
re: What should we do if...

amsd:-

The stamp on the right is the one that appears in the catalogue numbered 717 Used at £1.90.

The stamp on the left does NOT appear in the catalogue but has the number 560 Used at £25.00

Unfortunately Gibbons also does the reverse, thus a seller can list an item for £20 when in fact it should be £2.00. Therefore a stamp is misdescribed through no fault of the seller.

I have seen on numerous ocassions sellers on the internet being called some terrible names because a seller has "misdescribed" an item.

There are a few things one should keep in mind before an item has beem "misdescribed":-

a) The Seller may not be as experienced as you.

b) The Seller may have been given false information by the Stamp Catalogue they used.

c) The Seller may have dyslexia.

d) The Seller may have some other eye problem eg cataracts, glaucoma etc

e) YOU may think you are correct but YOU may actually be wrong.

Think before you leap.

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Brechinite
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Neddie Seagoon from The Telegoons
17 Feb 2021
02:59:04pm

Auctions - Approvals
re: What should we do if...

Harvey:- Let me add what I have said elsewhere.


Quote:

"There is no "solution" to the points raised.

It is down to each individual's own conscience, set of principles and morality.

Just don't try to force ones own "code" on others.."



In addition one must remain within the rules of any organisation one is a member of and the Law of the land in which one resides.

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BenFranklin1902
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Tom in Exton, PA
19 Feb 2021
02:51:29pm
re: What should we do if...

I have an eternal search agent on eBay for US Scott 314. This is the imperforate variety of my 1902 Series Ben Franklin shown in my avatar, and obviously the more expensive variety.

I cannot tell you how many hits I get from sellers listing the garden variety Scott 300 perforated stamp! Over and over. I wouldn't buy anything without a photo.

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Webpaper
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19 Feb 2021
04:20:04pm
re: What should we do if...

12 copies were ruined to create this block

https://www.hipstamp.com/listing/us-scott-314-line-block-mint-sup-1-vlh-3nh-pse-graded-100j-cert-garyposner/25493532/shopping=1&gclid=EAIaIQobChMIg__Nlu_27gIVw1PVCh0LhAC7EAQYAiABEgIvifD_BwE

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HolocaustStamps
Thank you for your donation to The Holocaust Stamps Project.
20 Feb 2021
12:10:18pm
re: What should we do if...

Tom:

YOU MUST HAVE THIS!

If you bid on this and win, I will send you $5 towards the cost. A small amount, but perhaps we can start an SOR crowd source campaign to make it happen.

Carol:

It is a gorgeous block but I see your point. The margins look tight but do you think they could have done a better job with the dissection to preserve 2 vertical line pairs and 4 horizontal pairs? I’m thinking surely an aggregate ask of over the $400 (for just the block) would be possible; but, I know nothing of US stamps so maybe the margins would have been too close to demand a premium?

Thanks, David.

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BenFranklin1902
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Tom in Exton, PA
20 Feb 2021
02:33:57pm
re: What should we do if...

Man o man! Hopefully done back when they were just penny postage... and maybe the extras were still used for postage!

Image Not Found

These were all over eBay for a while.. $45 worth of postage? They were selling around face!

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Harvey
I think, therefore I am - I think!
20 Feb 2021
03:16:24pm
re: What should we do if...

Exactly how much of the stamp, and which parts, have to there for it to be used as postage?

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partsguy
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20 Feb 2021
05:36:09pm
re: What should we do if...

A torn stamp with up to 50% loss should not be used for postage, but can be exchanged for a new stamp. The denomination should be visible.

https://pe.usps.com/text/csr/ps-281.htm

Moderator Al - fixed link.

(Modified by Moderator on 2021-02-20 17:48:26)

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