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General Philatelic/Gen. Discussion : Color Blindness and Identifying Colors on Stamps

 

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RedseaDiver
Members Picture


08 Feb 2021
04:48:28pm
I doubt I am not the only stamp collector who has difficulties identifying color variations due to color blindness. With improving technologies, are there any stamp identification software that collectors have had good experience with?

(Modified by Moderator on 2021-02-08 22:54:12)
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this post
pigdoc

10 Feb 2021
08:28:41am
re: Color Blindness and Identifying Colors on Stamps

I am not color blind, but I'm currently engrossed in making very subtle distinctions in stamp colors - I'm collecting the various printings of the Danish West Indies "bi-color" stamps that were issued between 1873 and 1895. There are as many as nine different printings of the more common stamps (1c and 3c).

Of course, the color names are only marginally helpful to distinguish "light" from "dark".

One strategy I'm using is to compare two individual stamps side-by-side to rank their colors as lighter than or darker than the other.

Another strategy is to use references for the minor design flaws. This series of stamps is very well documented, because the Danish Postal Museum has full sheets of every one of the 44 different issues. Thus, every stamp can (theoretically) be plated. For example, the only known "pearl flaws" of the 10c issue were present in Printing III. So, if I have a 10c stamp with pearl flaws, I automatically have the Printing III colors accurately identified. Some stamps were only issued with "normal" frames, others with only "inverted" frames. Other features are paper type and thickness, and the inking (heavy or light, sharp or blurred). I'm using a micrometer to determine paper thickness, but even on an individual stamp, I'm finding variation of 0.0005 inch. So, paper thickness is only a relative guide. In general, the later stamps were printed on thicker paper than the earlier stamps.

This is all about relating the colors to other features that nail down the printing identity. When that can be done, you have your absolute color reference. I'm collecting multiple copies of each stamp, and even within a printing, the color variation is noticeable.

What can confound this are "changelings" - those stamps that have faded colors due to exposure to sunlight, or toning. The DWI are located in the tropics, so "tropical toning" is common. Actually, the paper used in different printings is more or less susceptible to toning, and that can help identify the printing.

And, finally, date cancellations can rule out late printings. If a particular late printing was not issued until 1895, and the stamp has an 1888 cancellation on it, it can't be the late printing. The converse doesn't work however, especially with DWI stamps, because there were numerous shortages, and patrons and postmasters were scraping the backs of their drawers at times to find the needed stamps. Also, there was probably some hoarding of the common early issues.

As far as an electronic, or scanned reference for color, these are notoriously misleading. Almost every time I think I can make a color distinction from a scan, even in a side-by-side comparison in a single scan, when I get the actual stamp under a good light, I find I was misled.

It's all a massive puzzle.
I love puzzles!

-Paul

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cdj1122
Members Picture


Silence in the face of adversity is the father of complicity and collusion, the first cousins of conspiracy..

14 Feb 2021
11:07:54pm
re: Color Blindness and Identifying Colors on Stamps

Good Luck with your project, Paul.
When you have finished with that,
perhaps you might enjoy joining us
in Machinland.

Yes we have colors;
½p turquoise (Feb 15/71)
1p crimson (Feb 15/71) sa
1½p charcoal black (Feb 15/71)
2p deep grey-green (Feb 15/71) sa
2½p pale magenta (Feb 15/71)
2½p rose madder (Jan 14/81)
3p ultramarine (Feb 15/71)
3p rose red (Oct 22/80)
3½p grey green (Feb 15/71)
3½p purple-brown (Mar 30/83)
4p rust brown (Feb 15/71)
4p turquoise (Jan 30/80)
4p cobalt blue (Jul 26/88)
4½p bluish grey (Oct 24/73)
4½p steel blue (Regionals only)
5p greyish violet (Feb 15/71)
5p greyish rose (Jan 27/82)
5p ash pink (red-brown) (Jul 26/88) sa
5½p deep violet (Oct 24/73)
6p pastel green (Feb 15/71)
6p lime green (Sep 10/91)
6½p cerulean blue (Sep 4/74)
7p red brown (Dec 74)
7p brick red (Oct 29/85)
7p light grey (Apr 20/99)
7p shocking pink (Apr 1/04)
7½p pale chestnut (Feb 15/71)
8p blood red (Oct 24/73)
8p old gold (Apr 25/00)
8½p apple green (Sep 24/75)
9p orange and black (Feb 15/71)
9p deep violet (Feb 25/76)
9p orange (Apr 5/05)
9½p bluish lilac (Feb 16/76)
10p terracotta and orange-brown (Aug 11/71)
10p greyish orange (Feb 25/76)
10p light tan (Sep 4/90) sa
10½p light yellow (Feb 25/76)
10½p greyish blue (Apr 26/78)
11p pastel red (Feb 25/76)
11½p rust brown (Aug 15/79)
11½p mushroom (Jan 14/81)
12p yellow green (Jan 30/80)
12p emerald green (Oct 29/85)
12p dark turquoise (Aug 1/06)
12½p pastel green (Jan 27/82)
13p grey green (Aug 15/79)
13p light brown (Aug 28/84)
13½p red brown (Jan 30/80)
14p greyish blue (Jan 14/81)
14p dark blue (Aug 23/88)
14p salmon pink (Aug 1/06)
15p ultramarine (Aug 15/79)
15p light blue (Sep 26/89)
15p shocking pink (Apr 1/08)
15½p light violet (Jan 14/81)
16p light mushroom (Mar 30/83)
16p pink (Mar 27/07)
16½p light brown (Jan 27/82)
17p pastel green (Jan 30/80)
17p greyish blue (Mar 30/83)
17p dark blue (Sep 4/90)
17p olive (Mar 31/09)
17½p chestnut brown (Jan 30/80)
18p bluish violet (Jan 14/81)
18p grey green (Aug 28/84)
18p light green (Sep 10/91)
19p flame (Aug 23/88)
19p olive green (Oct 26/93)
19½p grey green (Jan 27/82)
20p purplish grey (Feb 25/76)
20p sea green (Aug 23/88)
20p black (Sep 26/89)
20p light green (Jun 25/96) sa
20½p ultramarine (Mar 30/83)
22p deep blue (Oct 22/80)
22p moss green (Aug 28/84)
22p flame (Sep 4/90)
22p stone (Mar 31/09)
23p pastel red (Mar 30/83)
23p light green (Aug 23/88)
24p violet (Aug 28/84)
24p terracotta (Sep 26/89)
24p rust (Sep 10/91)
25p lilac (Jan 14/81)
25p salmon pink (Oct 26/93)
26p post office red (Jan 27/82)
26p stone (Sep 4/90)
26p rust (Jun 25/96)
26p gold (Apr 21/97)
27p rust (Aug 23/88)
27p mauve (Sep 4/90)
28p bluish violet (Mar 30/83)
28p sand (Aug 23/88)
28p slate blue (Sep 10/91)
29p yellow brown (Jan 27/82)
29p purple (Sep 26/89)
29p light grey (Oct 26/93)
30p sage green (Sep 26/89)
31p deep lilac (Mar 30/83)
31p ultramarine (Sep 4/90)
31p purple (Jun 25/96)
32p dark turquoise (Aug 23/88)
33p emerald green (Sep 4/90)
33p slate blue (Apr 25/00)
34p yellow brown (Aug 28/84)
34p slate blue (Sep 26/89)
34p purple (Sep 10/91)
34p lime green (May 6/03)
35p dark brown (Aug 23/88)
35p old gold (Sep 10/91)
35p lime green (Apr 5/05)
36p ultramarine (Oct 26/93)
37p red (Sep 26/89)
37p amethyst (Jun 25/96)
37p charcoal black (Jul 4/02)
37p olive green (Mar 28/06)
38p red (Oct 26/93)
38p ultramarine (Apr 20/99)
39p amethyst (Sep 10/91)
39p shocking pink (Jun 25/96)
39p light grey (Apr 1/04)
40p grey blue (Apr 25/00)
40p dark turquoise (Apr 1/04)
41p stone (Oct 26/93)
41p red (Apr 25/00)
42p sage green (Jul 4/02)
43p dark brown (Jun 25/96)
43p emerald green (Apr 1/04)
44p stone (Apr 20/99)
44p ultramarine (Mar 28/06)
45p amethyst (Apr 25/00)
46p old gold (Apr 5/05)
47p sea green (Jul 4/02)
48p amethyst (Mar 27/07)
49p rust (Mar 28/06)
50p ochre (Feb 2/77)
50p sand (Mar 13/90)
50p light grey (Mar 27/07) sa
50p slate grey (Jan 3/13)
54p rust (Mar 27/07)
56p lime green (Apr 1/08)
60p slate blue (Aug 9/94)
60p emerald green (Mar 30/10)
62p red (Mar 31/09)
63p emerald (Jun 25/96)
64p sea green (Apr 20/99)
65p dark turquoise (Apr 25/00)
67p amethyst (Mar 30/10)
68p stone (Jul 4/02)
68p sea green (Mar 29/11) sa
72p red (Mar 28/06)
75p charcoal grey (Jan 30/80)
76p bright pink (Mar 29/11) sa
78p emerald green (Mar 27/07)
78p orchid mauve (Mar 27/13)
81p sea green (Apr 1/08)
87p orange (Apr 25/12)
88p shocking pink (Mar 30/10)
88p amber yellow (Mar 27/13)
90p ultramarine (Mar 31/09)
97p mauve (Mar 30/10)
97p purple heather (Mar 26/14)
£1 mauve (Aug 22/95)
£1 ruby (Jun 5/07)
£1 wood brown (Jan 3/13) sa
£1.05 gooseberry green (/16) sa
£1.10 lime green (Mar 29/11)
£1.17 sunrise red (Mar 21/17)
£1.25 holly green (Mar 20/18)
£1.28 emerald (Apr 25/12)
£1.33 amber yellow (Mar 24/15) sa
£1.35 orchid mauve (Mar 19/19)
£1.40 dark pine green (Mar 21/17)
£1.42 garnet red (Mar 17/20)
£1.45 dove grey (Mar 20/18)
£1.46 dark turquoise (Mar 30/10)
£1.47 dove grey (Mar 26/14)
£1.50 brownish red (Jul 1/03) sa
£1.52 orchid mauve (Mar 24/15)
£1.55 marine turquoise (Mar 20/18)
£1.57 tarragon pine green (Mar 21/17)
£1.60 amber yellow (Mar 19/19)
£1.63 sunset red (Mar 17/20)
£1.65 sage green (Mar 29/11) sa
£1.68 tarragon green (Mar 17/20)
£1.70 marine turquoise (Dec 23/20)
£1.88 sapphire blue (Mar 27/13)
£1.90 amethyst (Apr 25/12)
£2 slate blue (Jul 1/03) sa
£2.15 marine turquoise (Mar 26/14)
£2.25 plum purple (Mar 24/15)
£2.27 harvest gold (Mar 21/17)
£2.30 gooseberry green (Mar 19/19)
£2.42 purple heather (Mar 17/20)
£2.45 spruce green (Mar 24/15)
£2.55 garnet red (Mar 21/17)
£2.65 purple heather (Mar 20/18)
£2.80 spruce green (Mar 19/19)
£2.97 rose pink (Mar 17/20)
£3 purple (Jul 1/03) sa
£3.15 aqua green (Mar 24/15)
£3.25 aqua green (Dec 23/20)
£3.30 rose pink (Mar 24/15)
£3.45 dark pine green (Mar 19/19)
£3.60 bright orange (Mar 19/19)
£3.66 harvest gold (Mar 17/20)
£3.82 holly green (Mar 17/20)
£4.20 plum purple (Dec 23/20)
£5 grey blue (Jul 1/03) sa

Engraved:

£1.50 brownish red (Mar 9/99)
£2 deep grey-blue (Mar 9/99)
£3 dull purple (Mar 9/99)
£5 brown (Mar 9/99)

Large size:

10p cerise (Jun 17/70)
20p olive green (Jun 17/70)
50p deep ultramarine (Jun 17/70)
£1 bluish black (Jun 17/70)

£1 olive and greenish yellow (Feb 2/77)
£1.30 buff and blue-green (Aug 3/83)
£1.33 mauve and blue black (Aug 28/84)
£1.41 buff and blue green (Sep 17/85)
£1.50 blue black and lilac (Sep 2/86)
£1.60 buff
(Sep 15/87)
£2 purple brown and green (Feb 2/77)
£5 pink and royal blue (Feb 2/77)
***

And almost every one can be found in shades.
Royal Mail drones must stay up nights dreaming
up ever more creative names.

*** List courtesy of Adminware.com

Like 
2 Members
like this post.
Login to Like.

".... You may think you understood what you thought I said, but I'm not sure you realize that what you think you heard is not what I thought I meant. .... "
        

 

Author/Postings
Members Picture
RedseaDiver

08 Feb 2021
04:48:28pm

I doubt I am not the only stamp collector who has difficulties identifying color variations due to color blindness. With improving technologies, are there any stamp identification software that collectors have had good experience with?

(Modified by Moderator on 2021-02-08 22:54:12)

Like
Login to Like
this post
pigdoc

10 Feb 2021
08:28:41am

re: Color Blindness and Identifying Colors on Stamps

I am not color blind, but I'm currently engrossed in making very subtle distinctions in stamp colors - I'm collecting the various printings of the Danish West Indies "bi-color" stamps that were issued between 1873 and 1895. There are as many as nine different printings of the more common stamps (1c and 3c).

Of course, the color names are only marginally helpful to distinguish "light" from "dark".

One strategy I'm using is to compare two individual stamps side-by-side to rank their colors as lighter than or darker than the other.

Another strategy is to use references for the minor design flaws. This series of stamps is very well documented, because the Danish Postal Museum has full sheets of every one of the 44 different issues. Thus, every stamp can (theoretically) be plated. For example, the only known "pearl flaws" of the 10c issue were present in Printing III. So, if I have a 10c stamp with pearl flaws, I automatically have the Printing III colors accurately identified. Some stamps were only issued with "normal" frames, others with only "inverted" frames. Other features are paper type and thickness, and the inking (heavy or light, sharp or blurred). I'm using a micrometer to determine paper thickness, but even on an individual stamp, I'm finding variation of 0.0005 inch. So, paper thickness is only a relative guide. In general, the later stamps were printed on thicker paper than the earlier stamps.

This is all about relating the colors to other features that nail down the printing identity. When that can be done, you have your absolute color reference. I'm collecting multiple copies of each stamp, and even within a printing, the color variation is noticeable.

What can confound this are "changelings" - those stamps that have faded colors due to exposure to sunlight, or toning. The DWI are located in the tropics, so "tropical toning" is common. Actually, the paper used in different printings is more or less susceptible to toning, and that can help identify the printing.

And, finally, date cancellations can rule out late printings. If a particular late printing was not issued until 1895, and the stamp has an 1888 cancellation on it, it can't be the late printing. The converse doesn't work however, especially with DWI stamps, because there were numerous shortages, and patrons and postmasters were scraping the backs of their drawers at times to find the needed stamps. Also, there was probably some hoarding of the common early issues.

As far as an electronic, or scanned reference for color, these are notoriously misleading. Almost every time I think I can make a color distinction from a scan, even in a side-by-side comparison in a single scan, when I get the actual stamp under a good light, I find I was misled.

It's all a massive puzzle.
I love puzzles!

-Paul

Like 
3 Members
like this post.
Login to Like.

Silence in the face of adversity is the father of complicity and collusion, the first cousins of conspiracy..
14 Feb 2021
11:07:54pm

re: Color Blindness and Identifying Colors on Stamps

Good Luck with your project, Paul.
When you have finished with that,
perhaps you might enjoy joining us
in Machinland.

Yes we have colors;
½p turquoise (Feb 15/71)
1p crimson (Feb 15/71) sa
1½p charcoal black (Feb 15/71)
2p deep grey-green (Feb 15/71) sa
2½p pale magenta (Feb 15/71)
2½p rose madder (Jan 14/81)
3p ultramarine (Feb 15/71)
3p rose red (Oct 22/80)
3½p grey green (Feb 15/71)
3½p purple-brown (Mar 30/83)
4p rust brown (Feb 15/71)
4p turquoise (Jan 30/80)
4p cobalt blue (Jul 26/88)
4½p bluish grey (Oct 24/73)
4½p steel blue (Regionals only)
5p greyish violet (Feb 15/71)
5p greyish rose (Jan 27/82)
5p ash pink (red-brown) (Jul 26/88) sa
5½p deep violet (Oct 24/73)
6p pastel green (Feb 15/71)
6p lime green (Sep 10/91)
6½p cerulean blue (Sep 4/74)
7p red brown (Dec 74)
7p brick red (Oct 29/85)
7p light grey (Apr 20/99)
7p shocking pink (Apr 1/04)
7½p pale chestnut (Feb 15/71)
8p blood red (Oct 24/73)
8p old gold (Apr 25/00)
8½p apple green (Sep 24/75)
9p orange and black (Feb 15/71)
9p deep violet (Feb 25/76)
9p orange (Apr 5/05)
9½p bluish lilac (Feb 16/76)
10p terracotta and orange-brown (Aug 11/71)
10p greyish orange (Feb 25/76)
10p light tan (Sep 4/90) sa
10½p light yellow (Feb 25/76)
10½p greyish blue (Apr 26/78)
11p pastel red (Feb 25/76)
11½p rust brown (Aug 15/79)
11½p mushroom (Jan 14/81)
12p yellow green (Jan 30/80)
12p emerald green (Oct 29/85)
12p dark turquoise (Aug 1/06)
12½p pastel green (Jan 27/82)
13p grey green (Aug 15/79)
13p light brown (Aug 28/84)
13½p red brown (Jan 30/80)
14p greyish blue (Jan 14/81)
14p dark blue (Aug 23/88)
14p salmon pink (Aug 1/06)
15p ultramarine (Aug 15/79)
15p light blue (Sep 26/89)
15p shocking pink (Apr 1/08)
15½p light violet (Jan 14/81)
16p light mushroom (Mar 30/83)
16p pink (Mar 27/07)
16½p light brown (Jan 27/82)
17p pastel green (Jan 30/80)
17p greyish blue (Mar 30/83)
17p dark blue (Sep 4/90)
17p olive (Mar 31/09)
17½p chestnut brown (Jan 30/80)
18p bluish violet (Jan 14/81)
18p grey green (Aug 28/84)
18p light green (Sep 10/91)
19p flame (Aug 23/88)
19p olive green (Oct 26/93)
19½p grey green (Jan 27/82)
20p purplish grey (Feb 25/76)
20p sea green (Aug 23/88)
20p black (Sep 26/89)
20p light green (Jun 25/96) sa
20½p ultramarine (Mar 30/83)
22p deep blue (Oct 22/80)
22p moss green (Aug 28/84)
22p flame (Sep 4/90)
22p stone (Mar 31/09)
23p pastel red (Mar 30/83)
23p light green (Aug 23/88)
24p violet (Aug 28/84)
24p terracotta (Sep 26/89)
24p rust (Sep 10/91)
25p lilac (Jan 14/81)
25p salmon pink (Oct 26/93)
26p post office red (Jan 27/82)
26p stone (Sep 4/90)
26p rust (Jun 25/96)
26p gold (Apr 21/97)
27p rust (Aug 23/88)
27p mauve (Sep 4/90)
28p bluish violet (Mar 30/83)
28p sand (Aug 23/88)
28p slate blue (Sep 10/91)
29p yellow brown (Jan 27/82)
29p purple (Sep 26/89)
29p light grey (Oct 26/93)
30p sage green (Sep 26/89)
31p deep lilac (Mar 30/83)
31p ultramarine (Sep 4/90)
31p purple (Jun 25/96)
32p dark turquoise (Aug 23/88)
33p emerald green (Sep 4/90)
33p slate blue (Apr 25/00)
34p yellow brown (Aug 28/84)
34p slate blue (Sep 26/89)
34p purple (Sep 10/91)
34p lime green (May 6/03)
35p dark brown (Aug 23/88)
35p old gold (Sep 10/91)
35p lime green (Apr 5/05)
36p ultramarine (Oct 26/93)
37p red (Sep 26/89)
37p amethyst (Jun 25/96)
37p charcoal black (Jul 4/02)
37p olive green (Mar 28/06)
38p red (Oct 26/93)
38p ultramarine (Apr 20/99)
39p amethyst (Sep 10/91)
39p shocking pink (Jun 25/96)
39p light grey (Apr 1/04)
40p grey blue (Apr 25/00)
40p dark turquoise (Apr 1/04)
41p stone (Oct 26/93)
41p red (Apr 25/00)
42p sage green (Jul 4/02)
43p dark brown (Jun 25/96)
43p emerald green (Apr 1/04)
44p stone (Apr 20/99)
44p ultramarine (Mar 28/06)
45p amethyst (Apr 25/00)
46p old gold (Apr 5/05)
47p sea green (Jul 4/02)
48p amethyst (Mar 27/07)
49p rust (Mar 28/06)
50p ochre (Feb 2/77)
50p sand (Mar 13/90)
50p light grey (Mar 27/07) sa
50p slate grey (Jan 3/13)
54p rust (Mar 27/07)
56p lime green (Apr 1/08)
60p slate blue (Aug 9/94)
60p emerald green (Mar 30/10)
62p red (Mar 31/09)
63p emerald (Jun 25/96)
64p sea green (Apr 20/99)
65p dark turquoise (Apr 25/00)
67p amethyst (Mar 30/10)
68p stone (Jul 4/02)
68p sea green (Mar 29/11) sa
72p red (Mar 28/06)
75p charcoal grey (Jan 30/80)
76p bright pink (Mar 29/11) sa
78p emerald green (Mar 27/07)
78p orchid mauve (Mar 27/13)
81p sea green (Apr 1/08)
87p orange (Apr 25/12)
88p shocking pink (Mar 30/10)
88p amber yellow (Mar 27/13)
90p ultramarine (Mar 31/09)
97p mauve (Mar 30/10)
97p purple heather (Mar 26/14)
£1 mauve (Aug 22/95)
£1 ruby (Jun 5/07)
£1 wood brown (Jan 3/13) sa
£1.05 gooseberry green (/16) sa
£1.10 lime green (Mar 29/11)
£1.17 sunrise red (Mar 21/17)
£1.25 holly green (Mar 20/18)
£1.28 emerald (Apr 25/12)
£1.33 amber yellow (Mar 24/15) sa
£1.35 orchid mauve (Mar 19/19)
£1.40 dark pine green (Mar 21/17)
£1.42 garnet red (Mar 17/20)
£1.45 dove grey (Mar 20/18)
£1.46 dark turquoise (Mar 30/10)
£1.47 dove grey (Mar 26/14)
£1.50 brownish red (Jul 1/03) sa
£1.52 orchid mauve (Mar 24/15)
£1.55 marine turquoise (Mar 20/18)
£1.57 tarragon pine green (Mar 21/17)
£1.60 amber yellow (Mar 19/19)
£1.63 sunset red (Mar 17/20)
£1.65 sage green (Mar 29/11) sa
£1.68 tarragon green (Mar 17/20)
£1.70 marine turquoise (Dec 23/20)
£1.88 sapphire blue (Mar 27/13)
£1.90 amethyst (Apr 25/12)
£2 slate blue (Jul 1/03) sa
£2.15 marine turquoise (Mar 26/14)
£2.25 plum purple (Mar 24/15)
£2.27 harvest gold (Mar 21/17)
£2.30 gooseberry green (Mar 19/19)
£2.42 purple heather (Mar 17/20)
£2.45 spruce green (Mar 24/15)
£2.55 garnet red (Mar 21/17)
£2.65 purple heather (Mar 20/18)
£2.80 spruce green (Mar 19/19)
£2.97 rose pink (Mar 17/20)
£3 purple (Jul 1/03) sa
£3.15 aqua green (Mar 24/15)
£3.25 aqua green (Dec 23/20)
£3.30 rose pink (Mar 24/15)
£3.45 dark pine green (Mar 19/19)
£3.60 bright orange (Mar 19/19)
£3.66 harvest gold (Mar 17/20)
£3.82 holly green (Mar 17/20)
£4.20 plum purple (Dec 23/20)
£5 grey blue (Jul 1/03) sa

Engraved:

£1.50 brownish red (Mar 9/99)
£2 deep grey-blue (Mar 9/99)
£3 dull purple (Mar 9/99)
£5 brown (Mar 9/99)

Large size:

10p cerise (Jun 17/70)
20p olive green (Jun 17/70)
50p deep ultramarine (Jun 17/70)
£1 bluish black (Jun 17/70)

£1 olive and greenish yellow (Feb 2/77)
£1.30 buff and blue-green (Aug 3/83)
£1.33 mauve and blue black (Aug 28/84)
£1.41 buff and blue green (Sep 17/85)
£1.50 blue black and lilac (Sep 2/86)
£1.60 buff
(Sep 15/87)
£2 purple brown and green (Feb 2/77)
£5 pink and royal blue (Feb 2/77)
***

And almost every one can be found in shades.
Royal Mail drones must stay up nights dreaming
up ever more creative names.

*** List courtesy of Adminware.com

Like 
2 Members
like this post.
Login to Like.

".... You may think you understood what you thought I said, but I'm not sure you realize that what you think you heard is not what I thought I meant. .... "
        

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