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United States/BOB & Other : Scott R247 Watermark?

 

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JohnGalt

21 Jan 2021
09:01:22pm
It is not clear to me if R247 has a WMK 191R or not based on the Scott Specialised catalog . . .

I have four of them, two are very clearly watermarked 191R, two of them are clearly NOT watermarked.

However . . . the Scott Specialised Catalogue is very clear that R283 is watermarked 191R . . . could these two watermarked 191R be R283 without the hand stamped "Series 1940"?? I doubt it.

So I guess the real question is . . can the Scott R247 have a watermark 191R???

The image is one of the stamps that has the watermark>

Image Not Found

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capn_ed
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22 Jan 2021
01:16:17pm
re: Scott R247 Watermark?

A dumb question: How can you be sure that the unwatermarked stamps are not watermarked? Is the mark closely spaced enough that it would necessarily touch a significant part of the stamp? Or is it possible that the mark was present on the original sheet of paper, but it's not on the part of the sheet that was made into your stamp?

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JohnGalt

22 Jan 2021
08:45:54pm
re: Scott R247 Watermark?

capn_ed . . . it is a large stamp so I am pretty confident that the watermark would show.

I get somewhat OCD over this stuff. The Scott Specialized Catalog says that the R283 is watermarked 191R, however they do not have the hand stamp "Series 1940"

However the Scott Specialized Catalog does not specify a wmk for the R243 so by default the two with the 191R wmk should be R283, but they lack the hand stamp.


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musicman
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APS #213005

24 Jan 2021
12:20:47pm
re: Scott R247 Watermark?

It is EXTREMELY easy to NOT be able to find any sign of a watermark on some US revenues that actually have them.

Check out Don's website page;

https://stampsmarter.org/learning/Manuf_DoubleLineUSIRWatermarks.html


Play around with the imager for the watermarks diagram and you will eventually be able to see how it can easily make it VERY difficult to get a sure visible line and to be able to positively say that you can see it!


Go to the page I posted and click on bottom right - "POP UP LOCATION TOOL"


Even with the larger stamp format, you can miss it.

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Harvey
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This is my diabetic cat OBI! I think, therefore I am - I think! Descartes, sort of!

24 Jan 2021
12:41:21pm
re: Scott R247 Watermark?

It is extremely difficult, if not impossible, to know whether some stamps are un-watermarked, or if they have a single lined watermark that missed. I have a couple stamps in my US collection that have question marks next to them. In some cases the un-watermarked version would be very valuable, but there is no way to tell. It's safest to assume the cheaper stamp, but in that case you'd never find the other one for sure. Sometimes there is only a small mark on the edge of the stamp that is damn hard to find!

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"You know you're getting old when you stoop to tie your shoelaces and wonder what else you could do while you're down there - George Burns"
pigdoc

24 Jan 2021
04:57:17pm
re: Scott R247 Watermark?

Also, the stamp depicted is a margin copy - from the edge of a sheet. With many issues, the watermark is not consistent all the way to the edge of the sheet.

Here's an example of a watermark on a corner of a sheet of Danish West Indies stamps to illustrate:
Image Not Found

-Paul

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Author/Postings
JohnGalt

21 Jan 2021
09:01:22pm

It is not clear to me if R247 has a WMK 191R or not based on the Scott Specialised catalog . . .

I have four of them, two are very clearly watermarked 191R, two of them are clearly NOT watermarked.

However . . . the Scott Specialised Catalogue is very clear that R283 is watermarked 191R . . . could these two watermarked 191R be R283 without the hand stamped "Series 1940"?? I doubt it.

So I guess the real question is . . can the Scott R247 have a watermark 191R???

The image is one of the stamps that has the watermark>

Image Not Found

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capn_ed

22 Jan 2021
01:16:17pm

re: Scott R247 Watermark?

A dumb question: How can you be sure that the unwatermarked stamps are not watermarked? Is the mark closely spaced enough that it would necessarily touch a significant part of the stamp? Or is it possible that the mark was present on the original sheet of paper, but it's not on the part of the sheet that was made into your stamp?

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JohnGalt

22 Jan 2021
08:45:54pm

re: Scott R247 Watermark?

capn_ed . . . it is a large stamp so I am pretty confident that the watermark would show.

I get somewhat OCD over this stuff. The Scott Specialized Catalog says that the R283 is watermarked 191R, however they do not have the hand stamp "Series 1940"

However the Scott Specialized Catalog does not specify a wmk for the R243 so by default the two with the 191R wmk should be R283, but they lack the hand stamp.


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musicman

APS #213005
24 Jan 2021
12:20:47pm

re: Scott R247 Watermark?

It is EXTREMELY easy to NOT be able to find any sign of a watermark on some US revenues that actually have them.

Check out Don's website page;

https://stampsmarter.org/learning/Manuf_DoubleLineUSIRWatermarks.html


Play around with the imager for the watermarks diagram and you will eventually be able to see how it can easily make it VERY difficult to get a sure visible line and to be able to positively say that you can see it!


Go to the page I posted and click on bottom right - "POP UP LOCATION TOOL"


Even with the larger stamp format, you can miss it.

Like
Login to Like
this post

This is my diabetic cat OBI! I think, therefore I am - I think! Descartes, sort of!
24 Jan 2021
12:41:21pm

re: Scott R247 Watermark?

It is extremely difficult, if not impossible, to know whether some stamps are un-watermarked, or if they have a single lined watermark that missed. I have a couple stamps in my US collection that have question marks next to them. In some cases the un-watermarked version would be very valuable, but there is no way to tell. It's safest to assume the cheaper stamp, but in that case you'd never find the other one for sure. Sometimes there is only a small mark on the edge of the stamp that is damn hard to find!

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Login to Like
this post

"You know you're getting old when you stoop to tie your shoelaces and wonder what else you could do while you're down there - George Burns"
pigdoc

24 Jan 2021
04:57:17pm

re: Scott R247 Watermark?

Also, the stamp depicted is a margin copy - from the edge of a sheet. With many issues, the watermark is not consistent all the way to the edge of the sheet.

Here's an example of a watermark on a corner of a sheet of Danish West Indies stamps to illustrate:
Image Not Found

-Paul

Like
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this post
        

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