Discussion - Member to Member Sales - Research Center
Discussion - Member to Member Sales - Research Center
The post is fundamentally incorrect. Overseas business and vendors do not have to register for UK Vat, any tax they have to pay is between them and their national tax authories.
Any imported goods arriving in the UK which are subject to VAT (not everything is) are the responsibility of the importer/purchaser.
UK companies that have a turnover of less than £85,000 GBP are exempt from VAT.
The world of VAT is bizarre and surreal. As regards postage stamps, stamps valid for postage are exempt from VAT. Although, HMRC (Her Majesty's Revenue and Customs) is unclear if this applies only to UK stamps or includes stamps valid for postage in their country of origin. If that is the case, for example, mint stamps from the DDR would be subject to VAT as would UK pre-decimal issues but stamps from Denmark would not be.
Used stamps are subject to VAT.
Stamp albums would be subject to VAT but Catalogues would not. If you expecting to write in the publication, eg a diary or notebook then it is subject to VAT. HMRC would argue that because you are putting other items into an album is the same as writing in it, their logic is tortuous.
If you are an overseas vendor selling to a customer in the UK you may wish to bear in mind that the limit in personal imports is £13 GBP, roughly $17.75 USD. These taxes are collected by Royal Mail who levy a charge for the privilege, the last time I paid it was £11 GBP.
Goods over £135 GBP are also subject to Import Customs Duty. The rate thereafter depends upon the goods themselves but is usually 2.5% on goods valued between £135 and £630 GBP. The rates above that depend on the goods and place of origin.
I'm fairly well versed in the vagaries of HMRC as we had a VAT registered business for many years.
An example of how surreal the VAT rules are is the tale of Jaffa Cakes, which I believe are similar to Delicje.
In the United Kingdom, value added tax is payable on chocolate-covered biscuits, but not on chocolate-covered cakes. McVities (the manufacturers) defended its classification of Jaffa Cakes as cakes at a VAT tribunal in 1991, against the ruling that Jaffa cakes were biscuits due to their size and shape, and the fact that they were often eaten in place of biscuits. McVities insisted that the product was a cake, and allegedly produced a giant Jaffa cake in court to illustrate its point. The product was assessed on the following criteria:
i) The product's name was regarded as a minor consideration.
ii) The ingredients were regarded as similar to those of a cake, producing a thin cake- like batter rather than the thick dough of a biscuit.
iii) The product's texture was regarded as being that of a sponge cake.
iv) The product hardens when stale, in the manner of a cake.
v) A substantial part of the Jaffa cake, in terms of bulk and texture, is sponge.
vi) In size, the Jaffa cake is more like a biscuit than a cake.
vii) The product was generally displayed for sale alongside other biscuits, rather than with cakes.
iix) The product is presented as a snack and eaten with the fingers, like a biscuit, rather than with a fork as a cake might be. The tribunal also considered that children would eat them in "a few mouthfuls", in the manner of a sweet.
The court found in favour of McVitie's and ruled that the product should be considered a cake, meaning that VAT is not paid on Jaffa cakes in the United Kingdom. This process went on for a number of years and ended up in the High Court.
The big drawback for HMRC when enforcing the rules regarding postage stamps is that they are so small and weigh very little and a goodly number are capable of being sent by post in what appears to be a normal letter. So very difficult to pick out in the enormous amount of international mail that flows globally. Illegal substances and high duty goods (tobacco & alcohol) are their primary concern. At the moment I should imagine that their attention is centred on the EU.
Now that you are all as confused as most people in the UK and the above explanation has made it all as clear as mud, you have no need to worry as an overseas business, it's all on your customer. You can do as a dealer I use regularly in the USA does, break my orders down into smaller units that fall below the tax thresholds and I get five or six small envelopes instead of one large.
Hope this helps and does not scare off the UK buyers.
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You can read this, updated yesterday.
https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/notice-143-a-guide-for-international-post-users/notice-143-a-guide-for-international-post-users
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Very well said and 100% correct Dambrovski. I order small value orders from colleagues here on SoR and some other auction sites. The value is always small, below the threshold at which either VAT or Customs Duty is payable. I've found the best way to avoid the hassle of sellers filling in Customs Declarations, and paying exhorbitant Parcel Post charges is simply to ask the seller to include the stamps in a greetings card and to send it by letter post.
Using letter post, yesterday, January 13th, I received 2 envelopes. 1 from Canada and the other from Alaska. Both were posted on 6th January.
Having worked as a Postal Engineer for Post Office I can confirm there is always a panic to ensure letters get delivered. There isn't ever the same effort for parcels.
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I must say I like Gudgies system.
You can get around 70 Great Britain Commemmoratives into a letter of 20 grammes, less if its those dasterdly Eastern European monsters. They appear to be able to slide through the postal systems of the world without any aggravation. OK it adds around 3c to the price of each stamp but what's better a few cents extra or the hassle of custom forms, delays and the stamps going "missing"?
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If you agree that the information I posted from Stamps.com is incorrect, I will delete that post.
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I wondered why two stamp friends in Europe and Middle East included a postal card in the maiking. I guess it does double duty as a stiffener.
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Hi michael78651,
I followed up on your original post and had a brief look at stamps.com and it has nothing to do with philately but is a freight forwarding/export agency. It wouldn't be that unusual for a company to scare people into offloading all their export admin to that company, for a fee.
As they say 'alls fair in love and covid!'
(Modified by Moderator on 2021-01-15 11:49:31)
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I'm writing this in response to Michel78651's post (UK Requires Value Added Tax Be Collected By Sellers Shipping To UK (Effective January 1, 2021)
The post is fundamentally incorrect. Overseas business and vendors do not have to register for UK Vat, any tax they have to pay is between them and their national tax authories.
Any imported goods arriving in the UK which are subject to VAT (not everything is) are the responsibility of the importer/purchaser.
UK companies that have a turnover of less than £85,000 GBP are exempt from VAT.
The world of VAT is bizarre and surreal. As regards postage stamps, stamps valid for postage are exempt from VAT. Although, HMRC (Her Majesty's Revenue and Customs) is unclear if this applies only to UK stamps or includes stamps valid for postage in their country of origin. If that is the case, for example, mint stamps from the DDR would be subject to VAT as would UK pre-decimal issues but stamps from Denmark would not be.
Used stamps are subject to VAT.
Stamp albums would be subject to VAT but Catalogues would not. If you expecting to write in the publication, eg a diary or notebook then it is subject to VAT. HMRC would argue that because you are putting other items into an album is the same as writing in it, their logic is tortuous.
If you are an overseas vendor selling to a customer in the UK you may wish to bear in mind that the limit in personal imports is £13 GBP, roughly $17.75 USD. These taxes are collected by Royal Mail who levy a charge for the privilege, the last time I paid it was £11 GBP.
Goods over £135 GBP are also subject to Import Customs Duty. The rate thereafter depends upon the goods themselves but is usually 2.5% on goods valued between £135 and £630 GBP. The rates above that depend on the goods and place of origin.
I'm fairly well versed in the vagaries of HMRC as we had a VAT registered business for many years.
An example of how surreal the VAT rules are is the tale of Jaffa Cakes, which I believe are similar to Delicje.
In the United Kingdom, value added tax is payable on chocolate-covered biscuits, but not on chocolate-covered cakes. McVities (the manufacturers) defended its classification of Jaffa Cakes as cakes at a VAT tribunal in 1991, against the ruling that Jaffa cakes were biscuits due to their size and shape, and the fact that they were often eaten in place of biscuits. McVities insisted that the product was a cake, and allegedly produced a giant Jaffa cake in court to illustrate its point. The product was assessed on the following criteria:
i) The product's name was regarded as a minor consideration.
ii) The ingredients were regarded as similar to those of a cake, producing a thin cake- like batter rather than the thick dough of a biscuit.
iii) The product's texture was regarded as being that of a sponge cake.
iv) The product hardens when stale, in the manner of a cake.
v) A substantial part of the Jaffa cake, in terms of bulk and texture, is sponge.
vi) In size, the Jaffa cake is more like a biscuit than a cake.
vii) The product was generally displayed for sale alongside other biscuits, rather than with cakes.
iix) The product is presented as a snack and eaten with the fingers, like a biscuit, rather than with a fork as a cake might be. The tribunal also considered that children would eat them in "a few mouthfuls", in the manner of a sweet.
The court found in favour of McVitie's and ruled that the product should be considered a cake, meaning that VAT is not paid on Jaffa cakes in the United Kingdom. This process went on for a number of years and ended up in the High Court.
The big drawback for HMRC when enforcing the rules regarding postage stamps is that they are so small and weigh very little and a goodly number are capable of being sent by post in what appears to be a normal letter. So very difficult to pick out in the enormous amount of international mail that flows globally. Illegal substances and high duty goods (tobacco & alcohol) are their primary concern. At the moment I should imagine that their attention is centred on the EU.
Now that you are all as confused as most people in the UK and the above explanation has made it all as clear as mud, you have no need to worry as an overseas business, it's all on your customer. You can do as a dealer I use regularly in the USA does, break my orders down into smaller units that fall below the tax thresholds and I get five or six small envelopes instead of one large.
Hope this helps and does not scare off the UK buyers.
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re: UK VAT rules
You can read this, updated yesterday.
https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/notice-143-a-guide-for-international-post-users/notice-143-a-guide-for-international-post-users
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06:16:55pm
re: UK VAT rules
Very well said and 100% correct Dambrovski. I order small value orders from colleagues here on SoR and some other auction sites. The value is always small, below the threshold at which either VAT or Customs Duty is payable. I've found the best way to avoid the hassle of sellers filling in Customs Declarations, and paying exhorbitant Parcel Post charges is simply to ask the seller to include the stamps in a greetings card and to send it by letter post.
Using letter post, yesterday, January 13th, I received 2 envelopes. 1 from Canada and the other from Alaska. Both were posted on 6th January.
Having worked as a Postal Engineer for Post Office I can confirm there is always a panic to ensure letters get delivered. There isn't ever the same effort for parcels.
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06:40:32pm
Auctions - Approvals
re: UK VAT rules
I must say I like Gudgies system.
You can get around 70 Great Britain Commemmoratives into a letter of 20 grammes, less if its those dasterdly Eastern European monsters. They appear to be able to slide through the postal systems of the world without any aggravation. OK it adds around 3c to the price of each stamp but what's better a few cents extra or the hassle of custom forms, delays and the stamps going "missing"?
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09:22:55pm
re: UK VAT rules
If you agree that the information I posted from Stamps.com is incorrect, I will delete that post.
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re: UK VAT rules
I wondered why two stamp friends in Europe and Middle East included a postal card in the maiking. I guess it does double duty as a stiffener.
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this post
re: UK VAT rules
Hi michael78651,
I followed up on your original post and had a brief look at stamps.com and it has nothing to do with philately but is a freight forwarding/export agency. It wouldn't be that unusual for a company to scare people into offloading all their export admin to that company, for a fee.
As they say 'alls fair in love and covid!'
(Modified by Moderator on 2021-01-15 11:49:31)
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