https://www.usps.com/international/customs-forms.htm
This is why your generous donor's letter, with a glassine of stamps inside, was returned.
Thank you Linus ....
David - regardless of how your poker buddy or previous assistants husband want to interpret international postal law your donor's gift was returned because it violated the law - there is no gray area. It is not a US law - it is international law and it will eventually affect all countries. Here is another excerpt from a postal bulletin dating back to 2017 - the terms "correspondence" and "documents" are defined in several places in both international and us rules and regulations and there is no possible way that stamps are either.
"IMM Revision: Changes to Pricing and Products for International Mailing Services
Effective January 21, 2018, the Postal Service™ will revise Mailing Standards of the United States Postal Service, International Mail Manual (IMM®) to reflect changes to prices, product features, and standards for the international mailing services noted below.
The following pricing and IMM revisions are based on the Postal Regulatory Commission’s (PRC) Order No. 4215, issued on November 9, 2017, in Docket No. R2018-1. In that order, the PRC determined that the First-Class Mail® (including First-Class Mail International®), USPS Marketing Mail®, Periodicals, Package Services, and Special Services Products pricing proposals, as well as the related classification changes in the Postal Service’s request, will go into effect on January 21, 2018.
First-Class Mail International Service
We will not increase prices for single-piece First-Class Mail International letters, postcards, and flats. The price of a single-piece 1-ounce letter will continue to be $1.15. The First-Class Mail International letter nonmachinable surcharge remains $0.21.
In this price change, conforming to the requirements of the Universal Postal Convention, we are limiting the contents of First-Class Mail International postcard, letter, and large envelope (flats) mail to personal correspondence and nondutiable documents. Merchandise that was formerly carried in First-Class Mail International service will instead be eligible to be enclosed in First-Class Package International Service® (FCPIS®) pieces or another available service. Because International Priority Airmail® (IPA®) service (including IPA M-bags®) and International Surface Airlift® (ISAL®) service (including ISAL M-bags) are commercial services designed for volume mailings of all First-Class Mail International postcards, letters, large envelopes (flats) and for FCPIS packages (small packets), limiting the contents of First-Class Mail International postcard, letter, and large envelope (flats) mail as discussed above will also apply to postcards, letters, and large envelope (flats) mail for both IPA and ISAL services. (See “IMM Revision: Changes to Pricing and Mailing Standards for International Shipping Services” in this issue of the Postal Bulletin.)
This is eventually going to cause a huge problem for us Canadians on SoR who are buyers. I can't imagine many of us would be willing to pay the extra $12(?) for an order of, say, less than $5. It would be fine if we bought a large number of stamps, but that rarely happens. Can anyone see a solution that does not involve breaking the law? What if the stamps were considered to be free and we could send you a donation? I'm just kidding, I think!
I'm amazed that every time someone gets their international stamp shipment returned for a customs form and proper mailing method that they are flabbergasted and don't understand. This is nothing new. This has been discussed on various sites, including this one, for years.
I was checking for a certain newer "Duck Stamp" on E-Bay. I won't mention the item prices which were all over the map, I'll mention the shipping. The shipping prices went from a low of $1.99 CAD to a high of $66.50 CAD!! Some people have a low item price combined with a high shipping price, that's just plain deceit - they're hoping we don't notice the shipping. No one on StampoRama plays that game, you really have to watch other sites! How do you justify $66.50 for a single stamp when others are so very much lower?
Edit: I know this is not quite on topic for this post, but it is close. I assume the customs form contributes to the price but certainly doesn't explain the several prices above $20 CAD.
High postage rates on Ebay may have nothing to do with the seller. If they participate in Ebay Global Shipping Ebay takes care of everything once the seller ships it to their processor. They set the shipping fees which include repackaging what the seller sends them, taking care of customs, etc. The seller is not even aware of what the customer is charged. Many nightmarish stories surround that shipping program - none of which are under the sellers control.
Webpaper: You have a valid point, but why the huge differences? Several times I've bought an item on E-Bay after getting in touch with the seller and asked him/her about the shipping charges. They almost always are willing to charge the actual shipping which is quite a bit lower. What I don't understand in this case is the huge differences for the same item.
"...the terms "correspondence" and "documents" are defined in several places in both international and us rules and regulations and there is no possible way that stamps are either. "
"Stamps are not non-negotiable documents"
Harvey - the sellers you contacted are probably not signed up for Ebay Global shipping which farms out it's repackaging and shipping to Pitney-Bowes. It can get incredibly expensive and there does not appear to be much in the way of control...
David - if you don't believe Linus, Michael, myself, and Anglophile there is not much that can be done. Continually beating your head against the wall will only give you a headache.
Carol, it's not that I don't believe the expert opinions here...yet somehow, I can't help but wonder... I guess that's why conspiracy theorists continue to exist (not that I would lump myself in with them).
Anyway, I emailed a lawyer who deals with cross-border investment and tax issues who hopefully can confirm for me that "no postal aliens exist" once and for all and I can go back to my afternoon naps in stead of riling up my beloved SOR colleagues!
Have a safe weekend, Dave.
"Some people have a low item price combined with a high shipping price, that's just plain deceit - they're hoping we don't notice the shipping. "
Taken from USPS:-
Regardless of any statement in this manual or the statement of any employee of the United States Postal Service, the burden rests with the mailer to ensure compliance with domestic, international, and individual country rules and regulations for mailability.
Again from USPs Website
123.633 Customs Forms Required
The following are examples of items that are required to bear a customs declaration form and for which the mailer must declare a value:
CDs, DVDs, flash drives, video and cassette tapes, and other digital and electronic storage media — regardless of whether they are blank or contain electronic documents or other prerecorded media.
Artwork.
Collector or antique document items.
Books.
Periodicals.
Printed music.
Printed educational or test material.
Player piano rolls.
Commercial engineering drawings.
Commercial blueprints.
Film.
Negatives.
X-rays.
Separation negatives.
Commercial photographs.
123.64 Additional Security Controls
When the chief postal inspector determines that a unique, credible threat exists, the Postal Service may require that a mailer, at the time of mailing, provide an acceptable primary form of photo identification (see DMM 608.10.3). The signature on the identification must match the signature on the customs declaration form.
123.7 Completing Customs Forms
123.71 PS Form 2976, Customs Declaration CN 22 — Sender’s Declaration
123.711 Sender’s Preparation of PS Form 2976
An image of PS Form 2976, Customs Declaration CN 22 — Sender’s Declaration, is available at about.usps.com/forms/ps2976.pdf. Before mailing, the sender must fulfill any nonpostal export requirements described in chapter 5 and must ensure that the electronically generated PS Form 2976 is complete.
123.712 Postal Service Employee’s Acceptance of PS Form 2976
The Postal Service acceptance employee must do the following when accepting PS Form 2976 from the sender:
Instruct the sender how to complete, legibly and accurately, PS Form 2976, as required. The sender’s failure to complete the form properly can delay delivery of the item or inconvenience the sender and addressee. Moreover, a false, misleading, or incomplete declaration can result in the seizure or return of the item and/or in criminal or civil penalties. The Postal Service assumes no responsibility for the accuracy of information that the sender enters on PS Form 2976
It would appear that sellers and buyers will have to be more judicious!!
Concerning the outrageous shipping charges... When you sell something on eBay, isn't the final value fee (aka eBay's cut of your profits) calculated only from the sale of the item itself? I have always figured that the "low price, obscene shipping" combo was a way for a seller to underpay their fees.
Forgive me, it's been YEARS since I actually sold anything on eBay, so maybe I just don't remember how it was structured, or if it's even the same now as it was then....
eBays cut includes the shipping charges.
Received a PM from a long-time, generous donor (SOR Member) that his most recent letter was returned with a note that it required a customs form. Not surprisingly, he noted that having to fill out such paperwork for a regular envelope with a handful of stamps would be a barrier to future donations. At the same time, when I wanted to personally buy from an SOR member recently, he noted the same issue had lead him to previously stop selling to Canadian members.
I totally sympathize with these frustrations, but fear that this could be the tip of the iceberg leading to the demise of The Holocaust Stamps Project (Canada), as well as our personal trading and buying activities cross-border.
We've been around the block on the issue here with a range of opinions, but with people eventually just deciding to interpret the rules as inviolable or flexible and going their own way. Personally, I'm still in the grey area on this so decided to go through the USPS and Canada Post sites to get a better idea on the issue. Frustrating beyond belief and nobody could provide a simple answer to what I think is a simple question.
So I asked my old poker buddy (now retired from Canada Post) and my former assistant's husband (who works for Canada Border Security) what they thought. Their answers (backed up by what I read on the two government sites) seemed fairly clear. On the example of an SOR member sending me (personally) stamps I have purchased - or sending stamp donations to "The Project", in summary:
1) Customs forms are not required for mail coming from the USA, per se, they are required for mail coming into Canada. So the requirement for a customs form is the purview of Canadian Authorities.
2) As per Rule #2.2.2 (Canada Post) if the items are valued at less than $20 there is no duty or tax assessed (exceptions: alcohol, tobacco, and limited other things - but postage stamps are not included in this group).
3) If the sale or donation complies with the above, a customs form is not required, however, a card or note should be included in the letter noting that, in case it is opened by customs officials.
4) In particular, there should be no issue if (a) the stamps are sent in a "regular" envelope the same as used for a letter; (b) the letter weighs less than 1 ounce/30 grams; (c) the proper stamp is affixed (I think the US has a Global Forever type stamp?); (d) there is no special notation on the letter as to contents (e.g. "Donation" or "Contains Stamps - Please Don't Fold"); (e) the return address label notes a personal name and address, not a business one.
Both of my contacts agreed that basically postal/customs people have no interest in "stamp collector friends" trading (including buying/selling) small amounts of stamps between themselves. They are however, concerned with finding businesses (especially) and individuals who are sending valuable stamps cross-border for the purposes of making profits while avoiding paying proper duties/excise taxes to the governments of the receiving countries (in my example - that would be Canada - not the USA).
So I think there is room for us to still exist and continue to operate (as friends/stamp collectors - not high-profit business entities) even with our wall-less borders.
Anyway, there is my 2c worth.
David.
re: More Questions & Concerns on Mailing From USA to Canada
https://www.usps.com/international/customs-forms.htm
This is why your generous donor's letter, with a glassine of stamps inside, was returned.
re: More Questions & Concerns on Mailing From USA to Canada
Thank you Linus ....
David - regardless of how your poker buddy or previous assistants husband want to interpret international postal law your donor's gift was returned because it violated the law - there is no gray area. It is not a US law - it is international law and it will eventually affect all countries. Here is another excerpt from a postal bulletin dating back to 2017 - the terms "correspondence" and "documents" are defined in several places in both international and us rules and regulations and there is no possible way that stamps are either.
"IMM Revision: Changes to Pricing and Products for International Mailing Services
Effective January 21, 2018, the Postal Service™ will revise Mailing Standards of the United States Postal Service, International Mail Manual (IMM®) to reflect changes to prices, product features, and standards for the international mailing services noted below.
The following pricing and IMM revisions are based on the Postal Regulatory Commission’s (PRC) Order No. 4215, issued on November 9, 2017, in Docket No. R2018-1. In that order, the PRC determined that the First-Class Mail® (including First-Class Mail International®), USPS Marketing Mail®, Periodicals, Package Services, and Special Services Products pricing proposals, as well as the related classification changes in the Postal Service’s request, will go into effect on January 21, 2018.
First-Class Mail International Service
We will not increase prices for single-piece First-Class Mail International letters, postcards, and flats. The price of a single-piece 1-ounce letter will continue to be $1.15. The First-Class Mail International letter nonmachinable surcharge remains $0.21.
In this price change, conforming to the requirements of the Universal Postal Convention, we are limiting the contents of First-Class Mail International postcard, letter, and large envelope (flats) mail to personal correspondence and nondutiable documents. Merchandise that was formerly carried in First-Class Mail International service will instead be eligible to be enclosed in First-Class Package International Service® (FCPIS®) pieces or another available service. Because International Priority Airmail® (IPA®) service (including IPA M-bags®) and International Surface Airlift® (ISAL®) service (including ISAL M-bags) are commercial services designed for volume mailings of all First-Class Mail International postcards, letters, large envelopes (flats) and for FCPIS packages (small packets), limiting the contents of First-Class Mail International postcard, letter, and large envelope (flats) mail as discussed above will also apply to postcards, letters, and large envelope (flats) mail for both IPA and ISAL services. (See “IMM Revision: Changes to Pricing and Mailing Standards for International Shipping Services” in this issue of the Postal Bulletin.)
re: More Questions & Concerns on Mailing From USA to Canada
This is eventually going to cause a huge problem for us Canadians on SoR who are buyers. I can't imagine many of us would be willing to pay the extra $12(?) for an order of, say, less than $5. It would be fine if we bought a large number of stamps, but that rarely happens. Can anyone see a solution that does not involve breaking the law? What if the stamps were considered to be free and we could send you a donation? I'm just kidding, I think!
re: More Questions & Concerns on Mailing From USA to Canada
I'm amazed that every time someone gets their international stamp shipment returned for a customs form and proper mailing method that they are flabbergasted and don't understand. This is nothing new. This has been discussed on various sites, including this one, for years.
re: More Questions & Concerns on Mailing From USA to Canada
I was checking for a certain newer "Duck Stamp" on E-Bay. I won't mention the item prices which were all over the map, I'll mention the shipping. The shipping prices went from a low of $1.99 CAD to a high of $66.50 CAD!! Some people have a low item price combined with a high shipping price, that's just plain deceit - they're hoping we don't notice the shipping. No one on StampoRama plays that game, you really have to watch other sites! How do you justify $66.50 for a single stamp when others are so very much lower?
Edit: I know this is not quite on topic for this post, but it is close. I assume the customs form contributes to the price but certainly doesn't explain the several prices above $20 CAD.
re: More Questions & Concerns on Mailing From USA to Canada
High postage rates on Ebay may have nothing to do with the seller. If they participate in Ebay Global Shipping Ebay takes care of everything once the seller ships it to their processor. They set the shipping fees which include repackaging what the seller sends them, taking care of customs, etc. The seller is not even aware of what the customer is charged. Many nightmarish stories surround that shipping program - none of which are under the sellers control.
re: More Questions & Concerns on Mailing From USA to Canada
Webpaper: You have a valid point, but why the huge differences? Several times I've bought an item on E-Bay after getting in touch with the seller and asked him/her about the shipping charges. They almost always are willing to charge the actual shipping which is quite a bit lower. What I don't understand in this case is the huge differences for the same item.
re: More Questions & Concerns on Mailing From USA to Canada
"...the terms "correspondence" and "documents" are defined in several places in both international and us rules and regulations and there is no possible way that stamps are either. "
"Stamps are not non-negotiable documents"
re: More Questions & Concerns on Mailing From USA to Canada
Harvey - the sellers you contacted are probably not signed up for Ebay Global shipping which farms out it's repackaging and shipping to Pitney-Bowes. It can get incredibly expensive and there does not appear to be much in the way of control...
David - if you don't believe Linus, Michael, myself, and Anglophile there is not much that can be done. Continually beating your head against the wall will only give you a headache.
re: More Questions & Concerns on Mailing From USA to Canada
Carol, it's not that I don't believe the expert opinions here...yet somehow, I can't help but wonder... I guess that's why conspiracy theorists continue to exist (not that I would lump myself in with them).
Anyway, I emailed a lawyer who deals with cross-border investment and tax issues who hopefully can confirm for me that "no postal aliens exist" once and for all and I can go back to my afternoon naps in stead of riling up my beloved SOR colleagues!
Have a safe weekend, Dave.
re: More Questions & Concerns on Mailing From USA to Canada
"Some people have a low item price combined with a high shipping price, that's just plain deceit - they're hoping we don't notice the shipping. "
re: More Questions & Concerns on Mailing From USA to Canada
Taken from USPS:-
Regardless of any statement in this manual or the statement of any employee of the United States Postal Service, the burden rests with the mailer to ensure compliance with domestic, international, and individual country rules and regulations for mailability.
Again from USPs Website
123.633 Customs Forms Required
The following are examples of items that are required to bear a customs declaration form and for which the mailer must declare a value:
CDs, DVDs, flash drives, video and cassette tapes, and other digital and electronic storage media — regardless of whether they are blank or contain electronic documents or other prerecorded media.
Artwork.
Collector or antique document items.
Books.
Periodicals.
Printed music.
Printed educational or test material.
Player piano rolls.
Commercial engineering drawings.
Commercial blueprints.
Film.
Negatives.
X-rays.
Separation negatives.
Commercial photographs.
123.64 Additional Security Controls
When the chief postal inspector determines that a unique, credible threat exists, the Postal Service may require that a mailer, at the time of mailing, provide an acceptable primary form of photo identification (see DMM 608.10.3). The signature on the identification must match the signature on the customs declaration form.
123.7 Completing Customs Forms
123.71 PS Form 2976, Customs Declaration CN 22 — Sender’s Declaration
123.711 Sender’s Preparation of PS Form 2976
An image of PS Form 2976, Customs Declaration CN 22 — Sender’s Declaration, is available at about.usps.com/forms/ps2976.pdf. Before mailing, the sender must fulfill any nonpostal export requirements described in chapter 5 and must ensure that the electronically generated PS Form 2976 is complete.
123.712 Postal Service Employee’s Acceptance of PS Form 2976
The Postal Service acceptance employee must do the following when accepting PS Form 2976 from the sender:
Instruct the sender how to complete, legibly and accurately, PS Form 2976, as required. The sender’s failure to complete the form properly can delay delivery of the item or inconvenience the sender and addressee. Moreover, a false, misleading, or incomplete declaration can result in the seizure or return of the item and/or in criminal or civil penalties. The Postal Service assumes no responsibility for the accuracy of information that the sender enters on PS Form 2976
It would appear that sellers and buyers will have to be more judicious!!
re: More Questions & Concerns on Mailing From USA to Canada
Concerning the outrageous shipping charges... When you sell something on eBay, isn't the final value fee (aka eBay's cut of your profits) calculated only from the sale of the item itself? I have always figured that the "low price, obscene shipping" combo was a way for a seller to underpay their fees.
Forgive me, it's been YEARS since I actually sold anything on eBay, so maybe I just don't remember how it was structured, or if it's even the same now as it was then....
re: More Questions & Concerns on Mailing From USA to Canada
eBays cut includes the shipping charges.