Discussion - Member to Member Sales - Research Center
Discussion - Member to Member Sales - Research Center
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Cinderellas.
Numerous varieties.
Circa 1920s.
Believe printed in Constantinople.
Inspired by genuine stamps produced in connection with Russian Co for Steam Navigation and Trade.
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Dr Ceresa lists stamps in these designs with 54 different combinations of value and colours and that doesn't include tête-bêche pairs, se-tenant pairs, inverted centres etc. !!!
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Thanks, Nigel, for reminding me of Dr. Ray J. Ceresa. Dr. Ceresa (1929 - 2017) was a philatelic expert re postage stamps of Russia and areas, 1917 - 1923 period. He was the recipient of several awards for his philatelic exhibiting. And the author of the five-volume monumental work on Russia and Area Stamps (1917 -1923).
Believe his self-published pocket forgery guide was released in 2004. And remains available via some of the popular resale channels.
Some addtl background:
The Russian Steamship and Navigation Co (ROPiT) was established in 1856. And ceased to exist in 1917 following post-Revolution nationalization.
Perhaps of most relevance to SOR readers is this historical tidbit: From 1863 to 1914 all Russian post offices In the Ottoman Empire were administered by ROPiT.
Nigel, given your philatelic area of focus, anything further to share re Dr.Ceresa, his writings, ROPiT, or the cinderellas?
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Thanks Calstamp.
I never met Dr Ceresa but I've used some of his books for years.
There's a brief article on him in Wikipedia and most of this consists of a listing of the handbooks:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ray_J._Ceresa
His magnum opus, The Postage Stamps of Russia, 1917 - 1923, was a huge undertaking and was published in a large number of books.
Dr Ceresa had his own approach to numbering these books and this can cause some confusion!
As Calstamps has said, the whole thing consists of five "volumes". However, each logical "volume" was published as a number of separate printed books.
For example, the volume I know best, Volume 3. The Armies, was published over time as eight separate A4 handbooks.
I have seven of these and they are a great reference to these issues.
They have thousands of illustrations and my only reservation is that the details in many of these are hard to make out.
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These were originally ROPIT issues
There were 3 issue dates of these and yours represent the first and quite valuable first issue with the ship going left
However, there were 2 denominations, 2 kopecks brown and blue and 20 kopecks blue and red. The 6 kopecks official stamp remained on sale until stocks were exhausted
The second issue the ship travels right in 2 kopecks rose and blue and 20 kopecks blue and rose, again imperforate. A network was added for security
The 3rd issue was similar but it had noticeable changes.
A certified first issue say 20K would sell for $200-$400
They can be found in very rare blocks, used and on covers.
Reprints, forgeries and bogus values abound - yours are Bogus issues with no relationship to the originals
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I assume that the designs of these labels were inspired by the 1865 POPiT issue but the similarities are really only superficial.
Here are the 2 and 10 kopeks (10 paras and 2 piastres) stamps from ROPiT's 1865 issue (not mine sadly, but from a Cherrystone auction):
And here's a little about the ROPiT company from Wikipedia:
"The Russian Steam Navigation and Trading Company of Odessa was one of the biggest joint stock steamship companies in Imperial Russia. It was established in 1856 and ceased to exist in 1918 due to nationalization after the revolution in Russia.
In 1858 the company obtained a 24-year contract for usage of the port of Villafranca Marittima, on the Mediterranean with the Kingdom of Sardinia.
From 1863 to 1914 all Russian post offices in the Ottoman Empire were run by the ROPiT.
In 1901 it had a fleet of 72 steamships. Company stock was listed on Saint-Petersburg Stock Exchange."
The name "ROPiT" (or simply "ROPIT") is the usual English name for the company reflecting its initials in Russian.
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SForgCa has mentioned one of my favourite stamps, the large blue 6 kopek from 1863. 
Here's a nice example, again from Cherrystone Auctions, ex Ferrary, Caspary etc.
I believe there are a number of different forgeries and that most examples are forged.
However, I've never seen any good tests for the forgeries.
SForgCa, could you help on this point please? I know you have extensive references on classic forgeries.
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These stamps were used on newspapers from Russia to Turkey and vise-versa.
- The 1st issue is in light blue (printed in sheets of 4 stamps in one row vertically making 4 different types.
- The 2nd issue in blue (printed in a square of 2×2 stamps with 4 different types).
- The 3rd issue in dark blue on thick paper (printed in a square of 2×2 stamps, prepared, but probably not issued).
Proofs exists in dark brown and red .
I obtained 2 Genuine from Dr Ceresa in 1980
1a Light blue on thin paper
1c Deep Blue on chalky paper
I have some 15 different forgeries
The key features are the corner stars. In the genuine they are well formed and the top right one is level, the others inclined - the forgeries have serious issues with these
The frame lines on forgeries tend to be uneven, poorly detailed or broken.
The animal heads are generally incorrect
A reduced size image of some of my forgeries. Left to right, Torres, Spiro, Senf, Fournier and a proof forgery
The Fournier is very common and easily noted with the cross touching the oval line
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Thank you very much SForgCa for posting these really clear images.
The shades and the design details stand out very well.
I look forward to comparing my own stamps with these in daylight tomorrow morning.
It's great to see such a familiar design in bright red!
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Can anyone please help me id these three stamps and if they are real or forged? Thank you so much!
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05:09:31pm
re: Help please--Russia in Turkey/Ottoman Empire Shipping Stamps, real or forged? IDs?
Cinderellas.
Numerous varieties.
Circa 1920s.
Believe printed in Constantinople.
Inspired by genuine stamps produced in connection with Russian Co for Steam Navigation and Trade.
3 Members
like this post.
Login to Like.
re: Help please--Russia in Turkey/Ottoman Empire Shipping Stamps, real or forged? IDs?
Dr Ceresa lists stamps in these designs with 54 different combinations of value and colours and that doesn't include tête-bêche pairs, se-tenant pairs, inverted centres etc. !!!
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06:34:26am
re: Help please--Russia in Turkey/Ottoman Empire Shipping Stamps, real or forged? IDs?
Thanks, Nigel, for reminding me of Dr. Ray J. Ceresa. Dr. Ceresa (1929 - 2017) was a philatelic expert re postage stamps of Russia and areas, 1917 - 1923 period. He was the recipient of several awards for his philatelic exhibiting. And the author of the five-volume monumental work on Russia and Area Stamps (1917 -1923).
Believe his self-published pocket forgery guide was released in 2004. And remains available via some of the popular resale channels.
Some addtl background:
The Russian Steamship and Navigation Co (ROPiT) was established in 1856. And ceased to exist in 1917 following post-Revolution nationalization.
Perhaps of most relevance to SOR readers is this historical tidbit: From 1863 to 1914 all Russian post offices In the Ottoman Empire were administered by ROPiT.
Nigel, given your philatelic area of focus, anything further to share re Dr.Ceresa, his writings, ROPiT, or the cinderellas?
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re: Help please--Russia in Turkey/Ottoman Empire Shipping Stamps, real or forged? IDs?
Thanks Calstamp.
I never met Dr Ceresa but I've used some of his books for years.
There's a brief article on him in Wikipedia and most of this consists of a listing of the handbooks:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ray_J._Ceresa
His magnum opus, The Postage Stamps of Russia, 1917 - 1923, was a huge undertaking and was published in a large number of books.
Dr Ceresa had his own approach to numbering these books and this can cause some confusion!
As Calstamps has said, the whole thing consists of five "volumes". However, each logical "volume" was published as a number of separate printed books.
For example, the volume I know best, Volume 3. The Armies, was published over time as eight separate A4 handbooks.
I have seven of these and they are a great reference to these issues.
They have thousands of illustrations and my only reservation is that the details in many of these are hard to make out.
1 Member
likes this post.
Login to Like.
re: Help please--Russia in Turkey/Ottoman Empire Shipping Stamps, real or forged? IDs?
These were originally ROPIT issues
There were 3 issue dates of these and yours represent the first and quite valuable first issue with the ship going left
However, there were 2 denominations, 2 kopecks brown and blue and 20 kopecks blue and red. The 6 kopecks official stamp remained on sale until stocks were exhausted
The second issue the ship travels right in 2 kopecks rose and blue and 20 kopecks blue and rose, again imperforate. A network was added for security
The 3rd issue was similar but it had noticeable changes.
A certified first issue say 20K would sell for $200-$400
They can be found in very rare blocks, used and on covers.
Reprints, forgeries and bogus values abound - yours are Bogus issues with no relationship to the originals
3 Members
like this post.
Login to Like.
re: Help please--Russia in Turkey/Ottoman Empire Shipping Stamps, real or forged? IDs?
I assume that the designs of these labels were inspired by the 1865 POPiT issue but the similarities are really only superficial.
Here are the 2 and 10 kopeks (10 paras and 2 piastres) stamps from ROPiT's 1865 issue (not mine sadly, but from a Cherrystone auction):
And here's a little about the ROPiT company from Wikipedia:
"The Russian Steam Navigation and Trading Company of Odessa was one of the biggest joint stock steamship companies in Imperial Russia. It was established in 1856 and ceased to exist in 1918 due to nationalization after the revolution in Russia.
In 1858 the company obtained a 24-year contract for usage of the port of Villafranca Marittima, on the Mediterranean with the Kingdom of Sardinia.
From 1863 to 1914 all Russian post offices in the Ottoman Empire were run by the ROPiT.
In 1901 it had a fleet of 72 steamships. Company stock was listed on Saint-Petersburg Stock Exchange."
The name "ROPiT" (or simply "ROPIT") is the usual English name for the company reflecting its initials in Russian.
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re: Help please--Russia in Turkey/Ottoman Empire Shipping Stamps, real or forged? IDs?
SForgCa has mentioned one of my favourite stamps, the large blue 6 kopek from 1863.
Here's a nice example, again from Cherrystone Auctions, ex Ferrary, Caspary etc.
I believe there are a number of different forgeries and that most examples are forged.
However, I've never seen any good tests for the forgeries.
SForgCa, could you help on this point please? I know you have extensive references on classic forgeries.
3 Members
like this post.
Login to Like.
re: Help please--Russia in Turkey/Ottoman Empire Shipping Stamps, real or forged? IDs?
These stamps were used on newspapers from Russia to Turkey and vise-versa.
- The 1st issue is in light blue (printed in sheets of 4 stamps in one row vertically making 4 different types.
- The 2nd issue in blue (printed in a square of 2×2 stamps with 4 different types).
- The 3rd issue in dark blue on thick paper (printed in a square of 2×2 stamps, prepared, but probably not issued).
Proofs exists in dark brown and red .
I obtained 2 Genuine from Dr Ceresa in 1980
1a Light blue on thin paper
1c Deep Blue on chalky paper
I have some 15 different forgeries
The key features are the corner stars. In the genuine they are well formed and the top right one is level, the others inclined - the forgeries have serious issues with these
The frame lines on forgeries tend to be uneven, poorly detailed or broken.
The animal heads are generally incorrect
A reduced size image of some of my forgeries. Left to right, Torres, Spiro, Senf, Fournier and a proof forgery
The Fournier is very common and easily noted with the cross touching the oval line
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Login to Like.
re: Help please--Russia in Turkey/Ottoman Empire Shipping Stamps, real or forged? IDs?
Thank you very much SForgCa for posting these really clear images.
The shades and the design details stand out very well.
I look forward to comparing my own stamps with these in daylight tomorrow morning.
It's great to see such a familiar design in bright red!
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