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Sales, Swaps, Auction & Approvals/Stamps I Want To Buy : I'm looking for GB Mint Machins

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Gudgie
12 Sep 2020
09:19:41pm
About 2 years ago my wife asked me to tidy a box of used Machins. Less than 2 hours after starting I was hooked on stamps. Although the task was enormous, I now hand her back a selection of stamps she will be happy with. I'll continue searching for missing stamps but I've decided I want my own Machin collection.

Over 5000 versions of Machins now exist on sheets, booklets, and coils. There are variations in size, price, colour, tagging, perfs, and paper. You have regionals, Non Value Indicated (NVI's), and specials to remember significant anniversaries. Finally, you have Decimal and non-Decimal values, booklet panes, and Castles. Combine all these with minor image changes and you begin to see the enormity of the task ahead.

To begin my collection, my wife donated her stock of spare Machins. Although she provided well over 1,000 stamps, blocks, pairs, sheets, panes, etc. reduced the figure to nearer 200 different stamps. I've a long way to go, so I hope Stamporama members will help me expand my collection by swappping or selling me unused or unwanted Machins which have no place in their collections.

I offer to swap mint Machins on a like for like, face value basis, or, if preferred, I'll swap used Machins for Mint at an exchange rate of 5 times used face value. My wife has collected GB stamps for over 50 years. She has made available to me a large quantity of both mint and used spare stamps. I'm happy to extend my offer to take mint Machins in exchange for either mint or used GB stamps on the same swapping basis as above. If you want cash for your stamps I will happily discuss that too.

I've completed a Want List for X Series and Y Series issues and will soon have Want List for other series. I use SG Cat. No's which I hope will suit sellers. I will be happy to supply these to make sellers aware of items I am looking for.

If you have any Machins in your stockbook you no longer need, or a collection of Machins, or some booklets or booklet panes you'd like to dispose of, I'd love to hear from you. Please message me privately using Stamporama message system, or email me details of items you have available. I look forward to hearing from you.





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michael78651
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SOR Auctioneer
12 Sep 2020
09:38:16pm
re: I'm looking for GB Mint Machins

You and Charlie could have some long discussions on Machins. Charlie is in love with them!

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angore
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Collector, Moderator
13 Sep 2020
05:56:37am
re: I'm looking for GB Mint Machins

Gudgie,

If you collect to the depth you note then just collecting to SG Concise X and Y is just a small subset. SG Concise does not cover paper, all coil/booklet/sheet, phosphor type, paper, etc.






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Gudgie
13 Sep 2020
09:10:35am
re: I'm looking for GB Mint Machins

"If you collect to the depth you note then just collecting to SG Concise X and Y is just a small subset. SG Concise does not cover paper, all coil/booklet/sheet, phosphor type, paper, etc.!"

Angore, you are correct to say X Series and Y Series Machins are only a small subset. I believe my opening contribution said that. My wife's 2012 copy of the SG Concise does list coils, minisheets, phosphor bands, along with other info. The problem is the information is difficult to locate and scattered across the book. In addition SG have regularly updated and changed Catalogue References rendering our out of date catalogue meaningless. I prefer using regularly updated websites, and speaking with knowlegeable Machin collectors to identify differences between differing varieties.

I'm in regular dialogue with Andrew Hill, an acknowledged expert in the Machin field, and use his site ahi2000.com/machin on a daily basis. I use Ian Billings, a Machin blogger, whose site blog.norphil.co.uk has had over 2 million visits. I use hampsteadcastle.co.uk a superb site for identifying differences between Machins. I am a member of the Machin Collectors Club, but they currently don't have a website or forum for members. The organisation is administered by Sutton's Stamps, www.machins.org . Mervyn Sutton assures me work is underway to remedy that situation. I haven't used any of these sites to purchase Machins from, and I make no comment on their sales or service. I'm simply speaking of my dialogue with site owners, or my impressions about the quality of the sites.

There are many other sites available to Machin collectors, all of which use SG Catalogue References. Despite extensive research I've not yet located a Scott Calogue list of Machins or a cross reference between SG and Scott and would welcome any assistance in locating such a resource. Currently I use either Ebay or Colnect to cross reference SG to Scott, or vice versa. I haven't used SG Concise in some time and it's unlikely I will use it in the future.


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sheepshanks
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13 Sep 2020
09:40:25am
re: I'm looking for GB Mint Machins

Gudgie, one of the problems with Scott is that it does not even get into the depth of the Concise, so it is hard to cross reference a lot of the variations.
Some are cross referenced on this site but only the major changes.https://www.stampsforsale.co.uk/catalogue/82-machins-and-related-definitives

For id the Adminware site is very good with illustrations and technical details.
Charlie will weigh in with the Deegam system which is by far the most comprehensive and will double your list to 10,000 collectible varieties.
The Adminware site also has downloadable pages, basic free but with a price for the more detailed.
Our Clive's Stampeasy site also has some more detailed pages available.

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angore
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Collector, Moderator
13 Sep 2020
09:53:25am
re: I'm looking for GB Mint Machins

My preferred online reference is Robin Harris's site https://adminware.ca/machin.htm. I also have a Deegam catalog.

My collecting interest is closer to Adminware's Intermediate pages but do not get into booklet/coil/sheet unless there is another variable (printer, straight edge, etc). I have an interest phosphor and paper types.

To me a cross reference to Scott is not useful. Scott ignores a lot of varieties. The only area Scott does cover more is the thin/thick values that is not in Concise.

The concise is fine as a base but then you could expand with descriptions such as X851 thin value no scratch. Many prefer Deegam as a common base but then there is SG specialized.

I created a spreadsheet based upon Adminware's pages and use that as a checklist and cross referenced to SG.





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Gudgie
13 Sep 2020
04:13:02pm
re: I'm looking for GB Mint Machins

Thanks for your interest Sheepshanks and angore. Your comments are appreciated. I begin with an apology to Robin Harris whom I forgot to mention earlier. His site adminware.ca was largely responsible for my initial interest in collecting Machins around 2 years ago. I can't honestly say how I first reached his website but when I got there, organising a mountain of stamps became more interesting and a lot easier. I immediately downloaded his basic album and began filling the pages.

As time went on and my understanding improved, more and more spaces were filled, but I was unable to complete the entire album for several reasons. First, my wife has mint examples of many of the more difficult to find stamps, including spares which she has now given me. But I wasn't keen to buy used copies of stamps where a mint stamp was available.

Second, in the X Series range between X998 and X1050, I am not 100% confident in my ability to properly recognise all stamps. This was a principal reason for contacting people named earlier, including Robin Harris, who all kindly answered my queries.

Third, my wife owns a collection of around 35 GB Prestige booklets and about 70 old style booklets. All are mint, so we were loathe to remove panes for inclusion in a used collection. That probably influenced me to start a new collection.

I want my collection to display stamps beside items such as booklets, coils and panes, giving details such as type of print, printers, issue dates, and differences such as size of value, paper, gum, etc. People have made suggestions about the form the display should take but I'm still open to advice on that score. It would have been nice to provide equivalent Scott numbers in the display but, as angore says, Scott doesn't cover to the same depth. I may still use those which are available.

Remember, I knew nothing about stamps and was given this task because SWMBO was unsure about the different types of Machin. I am no expert, but I know enough to enjoy and talk sensibly about them. Having decided to accumulate a more advanced collection, I will purchase the Deegam catalogue, universally accepted as the Machin bible.

Douglas Myall, the author of Deegam, sadly passed away in January 2019, shortly after I began collecting. I believe I'm correct in saying after his demise there was a period of uncertainty about the future of his work. I'm pleased to report the Deegam Catalogue deegam.com is up and running again. I tried to buy a copy earlier today but paper copies are no longer in print. My laptop doesn't have a CD Drive on it, neither does my wife's. Perhaps someone will message me to say how this can be overcome. I will immediately pay up and download the Deegam catalogue.

Since starting I've spent a great deal of time trying to resolve problems relating to Machins. Answers are freely available but there's no single resource which answers all questions. I would happily pay for/subscribe to such a site. However, I've found every site has a Contact Me key, and, when I've used it, I'm delighted to report all the people mentioned, including Robin Harris , have willingly helped me with my Machin problems.

I also omitted to mention I have access to many thousands of used Wildings (all values), and used definitives from all 20th Century British kings. I offer these stamps at 5 used stamps of any value available for 1 mint Machin from my Want List. My wife recently hinted I should examine this mammoth pile to identify watermarks. I will probably begin doing so fairly soon. So please get in touch and swap or sell me some of your excess Machin stamps.






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angore
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Collector, Moderator
14 Sep 2020
06:56:52am
re: I'm looking for GB Mint Machins

Like Machins, Scott does not cover Wildings as well as SG. Scott ignores some of the watermark types and phosphor combinations. There are also available in thin and thick paper. Many of these are readily attainable but ignored by Scott.

As for displaying, the complexity of Machins does not lend itself to a traditional album approach if you want to maintain an open approach as your collection grows. Most I see organize by denomination printer, perforation type, etc. Then many booklets have multiple value Machins, etc.

For now, all my Machins are on Vario pages grouped like SG Concise (Sterling, X, Y, U) but in denomination order. Many Machin varieties come from a change of printers or of a prestige sheet.

I chose not to collect booklet/coil/sheet types just due to perf (cut/torn), phosphor screens, blue/violet phosphor color, PCP1 vs PCP2, shades unless SG notes it, gum types, value tablet position (unless it determines printer), and phosphor bars length to nme a few. The problem with all these if you choose a new variety it is not always just 1 more but several more since you have all the other combinations.

As for Deegam, it is not an easy reference to use an identifier since the catalog itself uses a lot of shorthand (acronyms, etc) with supporting information scattered in various sections.





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Gudgie
14 Sep 2020
06:17:04pm
re: I'm looking for GB Mint Machins

Thanks angore for your info. You must remember I'm new to this. The collector in the gudgie household is Mrs gudgie, but I haven't spoken to her in 3 months, she's not stopped speaking long enough for me to get a word in. Lolol. I'm only joking darling. You've been a great help to me, but that opportunity was too good to pass on.

The more information passed to me the more wary I'm becoming about Machins and Wildings. I'd like a collection, probably equivalent to the adminware.ca intermediate album, but to include as many panes, booklets, and sheets as possible. However, as someone else pointed out to me, what will I do when I have identified different versions of the same stamp from sheets, coils, or booklets? Perhaps by the time I need to make the choice, I'll know more about them, but I'm not confident enough yet.

Wildings and other GB definitives will not form any part of this display. SWMBO. does have copious stocks of most of them, sorted, but not yet checked for watermarks, or, where applicable, phosphor. I may consider, at some point in the distant future, including them, or making a separate display.

I'm aware of the difficulties displaying in a standard ring binder but I sold office stationery for 25 years and have knowledge of larger binding solutions. I hope I still have some contacts who can point me towards a workable solution.

Can I thank PeatedMike and Dambrovski for their ideas, information and suggestions sent by private message.

Please remember readers I'm starting with around 200 Machin examples and I want to collect around 5000 more. Please get in touch if you've any mint Machins of every type which you want to dispose of. Your assistance will be greatly appreciated.

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sheepshanks
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14 Sep 2020
06:29:46pm
re: I'm looking for GB Mint Machins

Gudgie, if you want a view of some Wildings, this link is to some scans I put up a few years ago. About a third of way down page.
https://stamporama.com/discboard/disc_main.php?action=20&id=18015#134890

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Gudgie
14 Sep 2020
08:25:26pm
re: I'm looking for GB Mint Machins

Vic,

What an impressive collection of Wildings and so beautifully presented. I can only aspire to that level. I enjoyed reading the thread too, which will be of enormous help, if and when, I finish my Machin project and seek further self-flagellation.

The collection of spare used Wildings available to me fills 2 ring binders. They were acquired as part of an auction collection. My better half doesn't have time or inclination to examine them for watermarks and phosphor, so she fluttered her eyebrows when asking my help. I'm a real sucker for any camels eyes, so for the first time in my life I tried to find watermarks on stamps.

I must have put around a dozen stamps in the liquid but was unable to locate marks of any kind. Seeking help from an expert, I called SWMBO who went through the same process as me several times without joy. Eventually she managed to find a watermark on a stamp just on the point of drying, but that was all. I threw my dummy (comforter) from the pram and haven't taken up the mantle since, but, if lockdown continues and I'm unsuccessful in my appeal for Mint Machins, I may have to try watermark hunting once more.

For Machin identification I bought a souped up lightbox with both low and high wave uv lamps. I'll leave the tales of fun and games using that contraption for another time.

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cdj1122
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Silence in the face of adversity is the father of complicity and collusion, the first cousins of conspiracy..
25 Sep 2020
11:53:14pm
re: I'm looking for GB Mint Machins

So many interesting thoughts, questions and answers.
I suspect most of the dedicated Machinistas have found
a way to keep their collection manageable. Once that
is done it seems that what began as a six or eight
hundred simplified collection starts to grow as the
wide range of otherwise unexplained varieties crop up.

Over the years I have suggested that newly addicted
Machin collectors try to limit their collection to
what can be seen with the naked eye, or at most, by
using a 3x glass. Otherwise, getting started is just
too complicated and varieties too multifarious
(multiferous ???) for most collectors. I generally add,
"if two same color/value stamps look slightly different,
they are most likely different," and they will all
eventually (just like a miracle) find their place.

Just looking at Al's comprehensive stated goal;
I chose not to collect booklet/coil/sheet types just due
to perf (cut/torn), phosphor screens, blue/violet phosphor
color, PCP1 vs PCP2, shades unless SG notes it, gum types,
value tablet position (unless it determines printers), and
phosphor bars length to name a few," I am fairly sure that
his decision came after a considerable period of time,
effort and possibly frustration at the enormity of the
potential.
And yet every so often I suspect that he comes upon some
proscribed example that looks just too nice to put aside.

From the quickly developing discussion above, just the
decision as to what catalog listing to use is difficult
to make. I did not see any mention of the SG Specialised
Volumes III and IV mentioned which cover the Wildings,
pre-cancels and decimal Machins in at times excruciating
SG detail and I wish I could say "error free detail."
(There is a joke in there somewhere.)

One great attribute of the Machin series is the minimal
cost of the great percentage of issues especially if nicely
cancelled, decently centered, examples are sought after.
Although even then a decision needs to be made as to
whether used, postally used, favor cancels, or FDC
refugees are acceptable.

As for the Deegam Complete Machin Handbook, it is not really
a "catalog, or catalogue." but as the name proclaims, is a
"handbook", with the stated goal of enabling the average
collector to identify virtually every used example being
examined.
However that same average stamper often dives into the
(catalog like) listings of Volume II without reading the
fourteen or fifteen chapters. Then when one of the many
abbreviation, acronyms, or shorthand symbols pops up they
have to struggle to find and understand the meaning.
In some ways, I was fortunate in the mid-1990s to be laid
up for a couple of weeks after one of my many cardiac
adventures. I asked my wife to bring me a book to read
and she brought the DCMH. I began to read page by page. A
problem with so many technical handbooks is that the author
often assumes that the reader already has a working knowledge
of the subject (Miraculously, I suppose.) so that some crucial
detail or definition needed to comprehend a part of the early
chapters is snuggly concealed in a much later chapter.
Despite Doug's valiant effort to avoid that kind of problem,
there are things needed at the beginning that just as in the
Sunday comics the proverbial "light bulb" does not go on till
much later.
I have had enough questions asked by fellow collectors that meet
that sequencing. So since there was little else I could do beyond
tormenting the patient nurses, I started at Chapter One and plodded
along, often stopping to reverse course and reread some passages
that made much better sense to me after reading a later chapter.
Over time I repeated that procedure at home to clear up a puzzlement.
.
I want to point out that I have been well rewarded reading the chapters
of the Volume One of the handbook.
Just to be honest there are a few issues, in the Machin series, that
present significant difficulties discerning that desired precise
identification.
Also as my vision has been deteriorating these days some subtle
factors are almost impossible to see easily and clearly.
But it has been fun while it lasted.
The amazing thing is that there are so many added varieties
shown by the Deegam system, that are never even hinted at by
either Scott (For Sure) or Stanley Gibbons. (correctly.)





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angore
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Collector, Moderator
26 Sep 2020
06:42:23am
re: I'm looking for GB Mint Machins

Charlie,

In some cases the definition of some terms is ONLY found in the glossary. That is you could read the chapters and not know what the term meant.

Here is an example of growth. Let's say one decides not to collect OCP/FCP paper types but then figure out how to tell them apart so then you end up adding 20+ varieties if you excluding other combinations. If you had a collection, the challenge to make such adjustments without creating all new album pages.

If one wants pre-defined goals then I suggest trying Robin Harris's pages as a goal: beginner, intermediate, and specialized. Except for source variations, the Intermediate is closest to my goal.

Here is a concept mounting (data not always correct) I did and if notice the x.xx number this is each issue, row, position on row of the stamp on Adminware's pages. Now, I had to lock at a specific date since Robin adds pages for new issues. My prototype is not structured for expansion so still. As a note, the Intermediate pages do not cover OCP/FCP varieties. They are in the specialist pages.

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cdj1122
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Silence in the face of adversity is the father of complicity and collusion, the first cousins of conspiracy..
26 Sep 2020
04:51:09pm
re: I'm looking for GB Mint Machins

" .... In some cases the definition of some terms
is ONLY found in the glossary. That is you could
read the chapters and not know what the term meant. ...."


Of course, you are right. However, around the last two
years of high school I started a virtual lifetime
habit, as my reading horizon began to expand well
beyond the school's curriculum.
A strange word gets underlined or a check mark placed
in the margin, the word is printed out on one of the f
frequent blank back pages along with the page number.
When I have he time and a few words have been gathered
I'd use a dictionary or a glossary, and if I thought it
was needed, I'd go back to the page and look at its usage.
Over the years, the need became less and less unless
there was some technical Jargon. At home in Florida
there are a lot of books with those words from that
habit.
In fact, when I have tried to get my children to see
the advantages, I would show them an old set of Churchill's
WW II memoirs and the back page notes that I needed
then, with only about 40%-50% success rate with them.
A blank page of my first copy of the CDMH was strewn
with such notes. But I admit, I am fussy that way.


RS: Often the meaning becames clear when a strange word
is used several times.

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