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General Philatelic/Identify This? : British Palestine EEF with strange color and overprint

 

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smauggie
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09 May 2020
01:17:34pm
Hi Folks,

This stamp is throwing me for a loop. It is probably quite common I am sure. I checked Palestine, Great Britain and even Turkey to come up blank. Any help would be appreciated.

Image Not Found

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sheepshanks
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09 May 2020
01:39:08pm
re: British Palestine EEF with strange color and overprint

Could it be Jordan Scott #23, bit hard to make out the surcharge on the scan.

See next post for correction.

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sheepshanks
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09 May 2020
02:32:01pm
re: British Palestine EEF with strange color and overprint

This makes the surcharge easier to see.

Image Not Found

Looking at this now I'd go with Jordan 1925 Scott # 141

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smauggie
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09 May 2020
03:26:58pm
re: British Palestine EEF with strange color and overprint

Hey thanks Vic. I think you it the nail on the head. I looked it up in the catalog and *cough* *cough* wow that's not the 25 cent catalog value stamp I thought it was.

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londonbus1
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11 May 2020
03:14:29am
re: British Palestine EEF with strange color and overprint

I'm not convinced the nail has been hit just yet. To my eyes the overprint (not surcharge) is not correct for the 1925 issue.
I'm off back to work but will delve into it later.

Londonbus1

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smauggie
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11 May 2020
08:18:29am
re: British Palestine EEF with strange color and overprint

I have come to the same conclusion. The overprints are similar but do not match exactly. I am at a loss as to where to look next.

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londonbus1
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11 May 2020
10:03:53am
re: British Palestine EEF with strange color and overprint

The bottom line of the overprint reads 'East of the Jordan' which should be in two lines according to my catalogues.
But what does the top line say ? I thought maybe 'Due' but it looks way off for that.
I am waiting on an Arab speaking friend for assistance !!

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sheepshanks
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11 May 2020
04:57:13pm
re: British Palestine EEF with strange color and overprint

Sorry, slaps wrist and beats head with wooden hammer, it is definitely an overprint not surcharge. Stupid old brain dead me.
Be interesting to know the answer though.

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cdj1122
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Silence in the face of adversity is the father of complicity and collusion, the first cousins of conspiracy..

11 May 2020
04:59:50pm
re: British Palestine EEF with strange color and overprint

Shepshank admits to being tied up in a knot.

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".... You may think you understood what you thought I said, but I'm not sure you realize that what you think you heard is not what I thought I meant. .... "
sheepshanks
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11 May 2020
05:03:32pm
re: British Palestine EEF with strange color and overprint

The following are currently listed on Ebay as 1925-East-of-Jordan-Overprints-EXTRA-FINE-USED-/401828069108

Image Not Found

Looks like the same 2 line overprint.

Ps, yes Charlie think I tied myself with that one, bit of a knotty problem.


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sheepshanks
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11 May 2020
05:21:15pm
re: British Palestine EEF with strange color and overprint

Ok definitely a different overprint (slap, slap)here are the two together.
The bottom line on the left stamp appears to be the two lines on the right stamp. So it has an additional overprint of the top line on the left image.

Image Not Found

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londonbus1
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12 May 2020
01:49:59am
re: British Palestine EEF with strange color and overprint

OK, the overprint reads Hejazi (Hejaz), East of the Jordan.

The next question is, who in the Hejaz overprinted the Palestine stamps ? I am thinking local revenue use so am following the lead on that. Possibly connected to the Old Hejaz Ottoman railway ?

Palestine stamps were overprinted for various revenue uses but this particular overprint is not listed in Bale.
Of course it could be a forgery !

More research, more fun.

Not connected but just an aside.....when I first came to Israel in the mid-eighties I remember walking along track remains of the old Hejaz Railway lines which ran along the fields where I now live. It was fascinating and I remember it gave me strong feelings of going back to those Ottoman days..........

Londonbus1

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sheepshanks
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12 May 2020
09:53:46am
re: British Palestine EEF with strange color and overprint

OK I can see that now, having run it through an English / Arabic translator, could not properly make out the script on the scan.
Be interesting to know why, as you say some sort of official usage most likely.

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nigelc
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12 May 2020
10:56:24am
re: British Palestine EEF with strange color and overprint

Barefoot lists under Palestine three-line surcharges:

H.J.Z

(value)

E.E.F

on E.E.F. stamps as revenues for the Hejaz Railway Debenture Retirement Fund with issues from 1918 to 1924.

Is this a later, similar revenue from the Transjordan Protectorate?

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smauggie
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12 May 2020
10:57:30am
re: British Palestine EEF with strange color and overprint

I find it interesting that the stamp that was overprinted was meant for use by forces in Egypt, not Palestine. Off the top of my head, East of the Jordan could be referring to somewhere in Palestine, Jordan and a more remote possibility, Syria. The northern terminus of the Hejaz railway was Damascus, Syria.

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nigelc
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12 May 2020
11:58:34am
re: British Palestine EEF with strange color and overprint

Hi smauggie,

The British "Egyptian Expeditionary Force" was founded in Egypt to defend Egypt in the campaign against the Ottoman Empire.

However, the E.E.F. stamps were issued for use in the British occupied Ottoman territory after the war specially Palestine and parts of Syria (including the future Transjordan Protectorate).

SG Part 1 includes a list of post offices outside of Palestine that issued these stamps, most of which were in Syria or Labanon.

Yes, I agree, esentially "East of Jordan" = Transjordan = modern Jordan.

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rrraphy
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Retired Consultant APS#186030

12 May 2020
01:36:34pm
re: British Palestine EEF with strange color and overprint

I wonder if the Hejaz railway o/p on EEF Transjordan stamps are actually revenue stamps?

For those curious, here are two more with a purple o/p on top of the Transjordan o/p. An id opinion would be appreciated.
Image Not Found

rrr....

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"E. Rutherford: All science is either physics or stamp collecting."
        

 

Author/Postings
Members Picture
smauggie

09 May 2020
01:17:34pm

Hi Folks,

This stamp is throwing me for a loop. It is probably quite common I am sure. I checked Palestine, Great Britain and even Turkey to come up blank. Any help would be appreciated.

Image Not Found

Like
Login to Like
this post

canalzonepostalhisto ...
Members Picture
sheepshanks

09 May 2020
01:39:08pm

re: British Palestine EEF with strange color and overprint

Could it be Jordan Scott #23, bit hard to make out the surcharge on the scan.

See next post for correction.

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this post
Members Picture
sheepshanks

09 May 2020
02:32:01pm

re: British Palestine EEF with strange color and overprint

This makes the surcharge easier to see.

Image Not Found

Looking at this now I'd go with Jordan 1925 Scott # 141

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this post
Members Picture
smauggie

09 May 2020
03:26:58pm

re: British Palestine EEF with strange color and overprint

Hey thanks Vic. I think you it the nail on the head. I looked it up in the catalog and *cough* *cough* wow that's not the 25 cent catalog value stamp I thought it was.

Like 
2 Members
like this post.
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canalzonepostalhisto ...
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londonbus1

11 May 2020
03:14:29am

re: British Palestine EEF with strange color and overprint

I'm not convinced the nail has been hit just yet. To my eyes the overprint (not surcharge) is not correct for the 1925 issue.
I'm off back to work but will delve into it later.

Londonbus1

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smauggie

11 May 2020
08:18:29am

re: British Palestine EEF with strange color and overprint

I have come to the same conclusion. The overprints are similar but do not match exactly. I am at a loss as to where to look next.

Like
Login to Like
this post

canalzonepostalhisto ...
Members Picture
londonbus1

11 May 2020
10:03:53am

re: British Palestine EEF with strange color and overprint

The bottom line of the overprint reads 'East of the Jordan' which should be in two lines according to my catalogues.
But what does the top line say ? I thought maybe 'Due' but it looks way off for that.
I am waiting on an Arab speaking friend for assistance !!

Like 
3 Members
like this post.
Login to Like.
Members Picture
sheepshanks

11 May 2020
04:57:13pm

re: British Palestine EEF with strange color and overprint

Sorry, slaps wrist and beats head with wooden hammer, it is definitely an overprint not surcharge. Stupid old brain dead me.
Be interesting to know the answer though.

Like
Login to Like
this post

Silence in the face of adversity is the father of complicity and collusion, the first cousins of conspiracy..
11 May 2020
04:59:50pm

re: British Palestine EEF with strange color and overprint

Shepshank admits to being tied up in a knot.

Like 
2 Members
like this post.
Login to Like.

".... You may think you understood what you thought I said, but I'm not sure you realize that what you think you heard is not what I thought I meant. .... "
Members Picture
sheepshanks

11 May 2020
05:03:32pm

re: British Palestine EEF with strange color and overprint

The following are currently listed on Ebay as 1925-East-of-Jordan-Overprints-EXTRA-FINE-USED-/401828069108

Image Not Found

Looks like the same 2 line overprint.

Ps, yes Charlie think I tied myself with that one, bit of a knotty problem.


Like
Login to Like
this post
Members Picture
sheepshanks

11 May 2020
05:21:15pm

re: British Palestine EEF with strange color and overprint

Ok definitely a different overprint (slap, slap)here are the two together.
The bottom line on the left stamp appears to be the two lines on the right stamp. So it has an additional overprint of the top line on the left image.

Image Not Found

Like
Login to Like
this post
Members Picture
londonbus1

12 May 2020
01:49:59am

re: British Palestine EEF with strange color and overprint

OK, the overprint reads Hejazi (Hejaz), East of the Jordan.

The next question is, who in the Hejaz overprinted the Palestine stamps ? I am thinking local revenue use so am following the lead on that. Possibly connected to the Old Hejaz Ottoman railway ?

Palestine stamps were overprinted for various revenue uses but this particular overprint is not listed in Bale.
Of course it could be a forgery !

More research, more fun.

Not connected but just an aside.....when I first came to Israel in the mid-eighties I remember walking along track remains of the old Hejaz Railway lines which ran along the fields where I now live. It was fascinating and I remember it gave me strong feelings of going back to those Ottoman days..........

Londonbus1

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like this post.
Login to Like.
Members Picture
sheepshanks

12 May 2020
09:53:46am

re: British Palestine EEF with strange color and overprint

OK I can see that now, having run it through an English / Arabic translator, could not properly make out the script on the scan.
Be interesting to know why, as you say some sort of official usage most likely.

Like
Login to Like
this post
Members Picture
nigelc

12 May 2020
10:56:24am

re: British Palestine EEF with strange color and overprint

Barefoot lists under Palestine three-line surcharges:

H.J.Z

(value)

E.E.F

on E.E.F. stamps as revenues for the Hejaz Railway Debenture Retirement Fund with issues from 1918 to 1924.

Is this a later, similar revenue from the Transjordan Protectorate?

Like
Login to Like
this post
Members Picture
smauggie

12 May 2020
10:57:30am

re: British Palestine EEF with strange color and overprint

I find it interesting that the stamp that was overprinted was meant for use by forces in Egypt, not Palestine. Off the top of my head, East of the Jordan could be referring to somewhere in Palestine, Jordan and a more remote possibility, Syria. The northern terminus of the Hejaz railway was Damascus, Syria.

Like
Login to Like
this post

canalzonepostalhisto ...
Members Picture
nigelc

12 May 2020
11:58:34am

re: British Palestine EEF with strange color and overprint

Hi smauggie,

The British "Egyptian Expeditionary Force" was founded in Egypt to defend Egypt in the campaign against the Ottoman Empire.

However, the E.E.F. stamps were issued for use in the British occupied Ottoman territory after the war specially Palestine and parts of Syria (including the future Transjordan Protectorate).

SG Part 1 includes a list of post offices outside of Palestine that issued these stamps, most of which were in Syria or Labanon.

Yes, I agree, esentially "East of Jordan" = Transjordan = modern Jordan.

Like 
1 Member
likes this post.
Login to Like.
Members Picture
rrraphy

Retired Consultant APS#186030
12 May 2020
01:36:34pm

re: British Palestine EEF with strange color and overprint

I wonder if the Hejaz railway o/p on EEF Transjordan stamps are actually revenue stamps?

For those curious, here are two more with a purple o/p on top of the Transjordan o/p. An id opinion would be appreciated.
Image Not Found

rrr....

Like
Login to Like
this post

"E. Rutherford: All science is either physics or stamp collecting."
        

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