Discussion - Member to Member Sales - Research Center
Discussion - Member to Member Sales - Research Center
Working with some play card stamps I see WMK. 191R. Where can I see it?
Were watermarks introduce to stop the process of faking the stamps or for another reason?
Thanks, Virgil
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In the introduction, and in the stamp listings.
The watermarks are poorly handled in the specialized.
191R is not illustrated as far as i can tell. It will look the same as the "USPS" double line watermark, except that the letters are "USIR".
I have an image of the watermark. See below.
It is from "The Buxton Encyclopedia of Watermarks". Note the typo mis-naming the watermark type as 191, but it is 191R.
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More watermark info
http://stampsmarter.com/learning/Manuf_LocationsWatermarks.html
Don
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US watermarks 190, 191 and 191R are all shown in the "Introduction"
section in the front of the catalog, under the heading "Paper";
the end of that heading shows the watermarks.
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I looked, but i didn't see it. I saw the full sheet watermark placements for 190 and 191. The tiny letters at the bottom escaped me.
Thanks for that. I thought I was going to have to fix that too when I buy Scott!
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Thanks, for now.
Still, I did not get a clear understanding what was the reason of using watermarks for stamps?
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To help prevent counterfeiting.
https://youtu.be/rkGjeP_XSdQ
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And I always thought it was to confound stamp collectors.
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...that too!
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To prevent counterfeiting! How? It is extremely difficult to identify the watermark by a collector or a dealer, how a postal worker could say that the stamp used on an envelope had a watermark or not?
Besides, the watermark paper was more expensive than the normal paper!
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The forgers would not be making individual stamps. They would print off sheets which would be sold to businesses. If the postal authorities suspected and traced these back they could identify the forgeries by lack of watermark and prosecute accordingly.
Most forgeries were poor copies and stood out like sore thumbs, so were quite noticeable. They were not the type of forgeries designed to fool collectors.
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The term ‘counterfeit’ typically means a stamp designed to deceive postal authorities. The term ‘forgery’ typically means a stamp that is designed to deceive collectors. Some folks use the terms interchangeably.
I think our hobby is notorious for confusing nomenclature. Other examples include the constant misuse of the word ‘shade’ when describing a totally different stamp hue or tint (I have seen experienced collectors get mad because while they consider themselves color experts they do not use 'Color 101' terms correctly). Other confusing terms include offset vs. setoff. Heck, sometime we cannot even agree on the term ‘mint’. And of course our hobby is multi-lingual so this also adds to the confusion.
It is little wonder why new folks struggle with the terminology. 
Don
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Shoot, Don. I was confused when I found out vertical coils were listed as horizontal perforations!
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12:32:22pm
Where are shown US watermarks in Scott Specialized?
Working with some play card stamps I see WMK. 191R. Where can I see it?
Were watermarks introduce to stop the process of faking the stamps or for another reason?
Thanks, Virgil
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04:08:17pm
re: US watermarks and one more question
In the introduction, and in the stamp listings.
The watermarks are poorly handled in the specialized.
191R is not illustrated as far as i can tell. It will look the same as the "USPS" double line watermark, except that the letters are "USIR".
I have an image of the watermark. See below.
It is from "The Buxton Encyclopedia of Watermarks". Note the typo mis-naming the watermark type as 191, but it is 191R.
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re: US watermarks and one more question
More watermark info
http://stampsmarter.com/learning/Manuf_LocationsWatermarks.html
Don
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re: US watermarks and one more question
US watermarks 190, 191 and 191R are all shown in the "Introduction"
section in the front of the catalog, under the heading "Paper";
the end of that heading shows the watermarks.
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09:05:52pm
re: US watermarks and one more question
I looked, but i didn't see it. I saw the full sheet watermark placements for 190 and 191. The tiny letters at the bottom escaped me.
Thanks for that. I thought I was going to have to fix that too when I buy Scott!
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02:42:43pm
re: US watermarks and one more question
Thanks, for now.
Still, I did not get a clear understanding what was the reason of using watermarks for stamps?
Login to Like
this post
re: US watermarks and one more question
To help prevent counterfeiting.
https://youtu.be/rkGjeP_XSdQ
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05:08:56pm
re: US watermarks and one more question
And I always thought it was to confound stamp collectors.
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re: US watermarks and one more question
...that too!
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11:37:53pm
re: US watermarks and one more question
To prevent counterfeiting! How? It is extremely difficult to identify the watermark by a collector or a dealer, how a postal worker could say that the stamp used on an envelope had a watermark or not?
Besides, the watermark paper was more expensive than the normal paper!
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Approvals
re: US watermarks and one more question
The forgers would not be making individual stamps. They would print off sheets which would be sold to businesses. If the postal authorities suspected and traced these back they could identify the forgeries by lack of watermark and prosecute accordingly.
Most forgeries were poor copies and stood out like sore thumbs, so were quite noticeable. They were not the type of forgeries designed to fool collectors.
Login to Like
this post
re: US watermarks and one more question
The term ‘counterfeit’ typically means a stamp designed to deceive postal authorities. The term ‘forgery’ typically means a stamp that is designed to deceive collectors. Some folks use the terms interchangeably.
I think our hobby is notorious for confusing nomenclature. Other examples include the constant misuse of the word ‘shade’ when describing a totally different stamp hue or tint (I have seen experienced collectors get mad because while they consider themselves color experts they do not use 'Color 101' terms correctly). Other confusing terms include offset vs. setoff. Heck, sometime we cannot even agree on the term ‘mint’. And of course our hobby is multi-lingual so this also adds to the confusion.
It is little wonder why new folks struggle with the terminology.
Don
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re: US watermarks and one more question
Shoot, Don. I was confused when I found out vertical coils were listed as horizontal perforations!
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