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What we collect!
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Europe/Other : Looking for information on pre philatelic Spanish mail

 

Author
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LawrenceF

11 Feb 2020
02:37:10pm
Hi all

Hope someone can help me out.

A dealer is offering me a letter sent from Madrid 1572 to Toledo to Diego Pineda ,a consultant for the Santo Oficio a San Cristóbal, that has a vertical cross on it.

The seller maintains that the cross means that it was free from payment. I am looking for information about this.

Know anyone who can help me out?

Thanks

Lawrence

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Jeredutt3

11 Feb 2020
02:48:54pm
re: Looking for information on pre philatelic Spanish mail

I know nothing about it.. but that is awesome !!!

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ArtStamp
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12 Feb 2020
08:55:23pm
re: Looking for information on pre philatelic Spanish mail

Hello:
On the item appearing in the "Looking for information on pre philatelic Spanish mail" I have to consider it a Historical Document, and it is superb.

It is actually not Pre Philatelic as the REAL ACADEMIA HISPANICA DE FILATELIA E HISTORIA POSTAL considers such items philatelic, as part of the postal history of Spain.

Secondly, the cover is addressed to a Consultor of the Santo Oficio, an official of the Spanish Inquisitorial Tribunal in the city of Toledo.

The question posed in the Post is whether the Cross drawn on the cover is a franking mark designating the item as a Free of Charge postal item.

And, of course, it would be germane to this inquiry to find out who was Don Diego (de) Pineda, and what was his role as consultor working for the Toledo Inquisitorial Tribunal.

Finally, the larger question has to do with the Spanish postal system in general, in the 16th century in Spain and its territories: who had to pay, who did not have to pay postage, etc. The Inquisition was found not only in Spain, but in all its territories around the world.

The Real Academia Hispanica de Filatelia e Historia Postal publishes a journal entitled ACADEMUS that deals with all topics philatelic, not only of Spain but of its former colonies. It is a fascinating journal.

Finally, the Spanish Postal system was under Royal supervision and it established the fees required to mail postal items: government and non-governmental.

I surmise that this item being an official Church document, a letter addressed to a staff member of the Santo Oficio (Inquisitorial Tribunal) in Toledo, was deemed Free of Charge by the Royal Postal authority.

More information will be forthcoming...


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LawrenceF

13 Feb 2020
04:10:34am
re: Looking for information on pre philatelic Spanish mail

Friar Diego Pineda was a consultant to the board. However I have another letter sent three years later in which postage of a half a Real was paid, so I am unsure about the cross

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ArtStamp
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14 Feb 2020
11:31:52am
re: Looking for information on pre philatelic Spanish mail

Hello, again. This topic is what we call in Spanish, "una olla de grillos." (Literally: a pot full of 'noisy, pesky' crickets.)

A Consultor of the Santo Oficio was a lawyer--lay or canonical--who assisted with the process of the Inquisitorial Tribunal's trial. He picked up from the work of the Comisarios (sort of police, investigators, accusers, etc.) during the trial of an accused heretic or accused individual. The list of "crimes" is endless. This Fray Diego de Pineda had a problem with a mason who worked on his house who accused him for non-payment. By the way, one of the issues of the Inquisition was the confiscation of property. This was the system utilized to defray the costs of the Inquisitorial process. The system was supposed to protect the accused, but it became rife with corruption. Which is another matter, as Carlos I (Emperor Charles V)instituted this type of corrupt system throughout the Empire. Everywhere Spain dominated we see a sort of institutionalized corruption still today!. I digress....

After looking at some 16th century covers online (auction houses mainly) I noticed a small cross above the addressee's information. It could be a religious-cultural mark "to protect the parcel from evil (?)" or it could be a mark placed there when the item was delivered. I thought, as your dealer stated, that the cross signified Free Franking. But you found out another cover that had paid postal charges.

I think that the best source of information can be obtained from the academics at the Real
Academia Hispanica de Filatelia e Historia Postal.

Fascinating subject.

By the way, does the cover include a letter?

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LawrenceF

16 Feb 2020
03:04:36am
re: Looking for information on pre philatelic Spanish mail

Yes it has the letter. Would you be able to provide a translation?

Also are you able to see who the sender was?

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Author/Postings
LawrenceF

11 Feb 2020
02:37:10pm

Hi all

Hope someone can help me out.

A dealer is offering me a letter sent from Madrid 1572 to Toledo to Diego Pineda ,a consultant for the Santo Oficio a San Cristóbal, that has a vertical cross on it.

The seller maintains that the cross means that it was free from payment. I am looking for information about this.

Know anyone who can help me out?

Thanks

Lawrence

Image Not Found

Like 
1 Member
likes this post.
Login to Like.
Jeredutt3

11 Feb 2020
02:48:54pm

re: Looking for information on pre philatelic Spanish mail

I know nothing about it.. but that is awesome !!!

Like 
1 Member
likes this post.
Login to Like.
Members Picture
ArtStamp

12 Feb 2020
08:55:23pm

re: Looking for information on pre philatelic Spanish mail

Hello:
On the item appearing in the "Looking for information on pre philatelic Spanish mail" I have to consider it a Historical Document, and it is superb.

It is actually not Pre Philatelic as the REAL ACADEMIA HISPANICA DE FILATELIA E HISTORIA POSTAL considers such items philatelic, as part of the postal history of Spain.

Secondly, the cover is addressed to a Consultor of the Santo Oficio, an official of the Spanish Inquisitorial Tribunal in the city of Toledo.

The question posed in the Post is whether the Cross drawn on the cover is a franking mark designating the item as a Free of Charge postal item.

And, of course, it would be germane to this inquiry to find out who was Don Diego (de) Pineda, and what was his role as consultor working for the Toledo Inquisitorial Tribunal.

Finally, the larger question has to do with the Spanish postal system in general, in the 16th century in Spain and its territories: who had to pay, who did not have to pay postage, etc. The Inquisition was found not only in Spain, but in all its territories around the world.

The Real Academia Hispanica de Filatelia e Historia Postal publishes a journal entitled ACADEMUS that deals with all topics philatelic, not only of Spain but of its former colonies. It is a fascinating journal.

Finally, the Spanish Postal system was under Royal supervision and it established the fees required to mail postal items: government and non-governmental.

I surmise that this item being an official Church document, a letter addressed to a staff member of the Santo Oficio (Inquisitorial Tribunal) in Toledo, was deemed Free of Charge by the Royal Postal authority.

More information will be forthcoming...


Like 
2 Members
like this post.
Login to Like.
LawrenceF

13 Feb 2020
04:10:34am

re: Looking for information on pre philatelic Spanish mail

Friar Diego Pineda was a consultant to the board. However I have another letter sent three years later in which postage of a half a Real was paid, so I am unsure about the cross

Like
Login to Like
this post
Members Picture
ArtStamp

14 Feb 2020
11:31:52am

re: Looking for information on pre philatelic Spanish mail

Hello, again. This topic is what we call in Spanish, "una olla de grillos." (Literally: a pot full of 'noisy, pesky' crickets.)

A Consultor of the Santo Oficio was a lawyer--lay or canonical--who assisted with the process of the Inquisitorial Tribunal's trial. He picked up from the work of the Comisarios (sort of police, investigators, accusers, etc.) during the trial of an accused heretic or accused individual. The list of "crimes" is endless. This Fray Diego de Pineda had a problem with a mason who worked on his house who accused him for non-payment. By the way, one of the issues of the Inquisition was the confiscation of property. This was the system utilized to defray the costs of the Inquisitorial process. The system was supposed to protect the accused, but it became rife with corruption. Which is another matter, as Carlos I (Emperor Charles V)instituted this type of corrupt system throughout the Empire. Everywhere Spain dominated we see a sort of institutionalized corruption still today!. I digress....

After looking at some 16th century covers online (auction houses mainly) I noticed a small cross above the addressee's information. It could be a religious-cultural mark "to protect the parcel from evil (?)" or it could be a mark placed there when the item was delivered. I thought, as your dealer stated, that the cross signified Free Franking. But you found out another cover that had paid postal charges.

I think that the best source of information can be obtained from the academics at the Real
Academia Hispanica de Filatelia e Historia Postal.

Fascinating subject.

By the way, does the cover include a letter?

Like 
2 Members
like this post.
Login to Like.
LawrenceF

16 Feb 2020
03:04:36am

re: Looking for information on pre philatelic Spanish mail

Yes it has the letter. Would you be able to provide a translation?

Also are you able to see who the sender was?

Like 
1 Member
likes this post.
Login to Like.
        

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