Dan,
I copied this from Frank Kaplan's site. He sells as 'Mr. Fancy cancel'. He recommends Bill Crow.
"W T (Bill) Crowe is an independent philatelic expert and we've been using him for a while. He is faster and less expensive than the PF or PSE and has been an expert for a number of the agencies. With the passing of Bill Weiss, Bill Crowe fills a much needed spot. You can contact him at wtcrowe@aol.com. Tell him Frank sent you :-)"
Much obliged Vince. Would you like me to mention your name as well as Frank's?
Thanks again,
Dan
Clearly his loss.
As I see it all independent philatelic experts is a major problem! As with Mr. Weiss his certs. are no longer valid, because they cannot be challenged. I have every respect for Mr. Weiss, we communicated on a number of issues, but he is dead.
I really don't understand. If Weiss ran a certification company, even if he was a company of only himself, why would his certificates no longer be valid? People die and that doesn't imply that anything they did during their lifetime becomes null and void. Can someone explain this to me?
As an antique dealer I was asked my "opinion" about items on a regular basis. But it was only an opinion, not in writing and not binding. Mr. Weiss offered certificates and they should still be in effect, my opinion only!
Harvey, it's really simple, as the independent stamp expert who is dead you can not challenge his opinion..
I guess that 1898 is stating his opinion.
My opinion is that he's 100% wrong.
By his reasoning if the APS was to go out of business, all of their certificates would be no good
because they can't be challenged.
My point exactly Tony. You have a right to challenge a opinion by getting a second opinion from another person but that doesn't make the first opinion, or certificate, invalid. That means, as you say, total chaos if a certifier for a particular company dies or even retires!!
@Stampcollector, thank you for your reply, my point was a single stamp expert, not a company of more than one expert. A company of experts their certs. can be questioned. A dead independent expert certs. cannot be questioned!
Just as a sidenote, Bill Weiss was also used by the APS as a certifier in the early years, then as a stampdealer in later years he eventually used his expertise through his own company and offered his own certifications through that company. Politically, that put him into competition with the long time certification organizations who really didn't like it. His certs have so far stood the test of time and scrutiny.
Just saying!!
Dan C.
I am in total agreement with Dan Tony and Joseph
I cannot see any logical reason why an expert's Certification automatically comes into question when he dies, as is stated by 1898. Whether in the land of art or stamps etc. there are individuals who are expert in their particular field and their certifications are accepted.
John
Folks, I think that what 1898 is saying/meaning is that you cannot go back to Bill and question him on his certificate.
But why would you need to declare a previous certificate, just send the stamp and get a fresh one from a new certifier. There does not appear to be a central register of certificates so how will anyone know.
I have a cover signed on the back as genuine by Herman Hearst ... guess I'm in a heap of trouble!
I agree with 1898 and sheepshanks. 1898 stated
"the independent stamp expert who is dead you can not challenge his opinion."
I've been thinking a lot lately about what kind of crappy philatelist I really am. I am very trusting and sometimes buy items without quadruple checking whether they are what they are purported to be. Should I be suspicious of every stamp I buy that isn't certified or should I just enjoy the hobby? For example, I recently bought BC #1 on the written assurance it came from Maresch Auctions, Sale 12828, lot 85 without even bothering to check. This could have been a lie, but I've been dealing with the seller and his father since 1972. Should I have passed up the stamp and demanded more proof? I just bought a copy of Newfoundland airmail #C18, an often faked overprint, because the seller trusted the person he bought it from and I trust the seller!! Should I have passed up the stamp unless I had a certificate? I could probably cite many more cases where I went on trust instead of a certificate. This is a hobby that is supposed to be fun, and I enjoy it very much. If we spend all of our "hobby time" scared and paranoid then the fun would disappear and it would be more like a job. If I get a bad feeling about a stamp or seller I pass it up! I've probably made some mistakes, but I think I can live with that!
Some ramblings while watching a blowout in the college football championship game tonight...
Having had the privilege at an early age (college years) of working for a well-known auction house and having no more knowledge than the kid sending a dollar for a selection of approvals from H.E. Harris when I started, I was able to see a quite a bit of material first-hand and how the house (and others) went about expertizing.
This will seem pretty obvious: When purchasing a stamp with a certificate from a dealer/auction house/fellow collector, make certain that the stamp pictured on the certificate depicts the stamp that comes with it!!
If the individual who issued the certificate is dead or retired, it doesn't mean the certificate isn't "good," but, as previously stated, it cannot be "challenged" by sending it back said individual.
Just because the certificate was issued by a noted expert/organization certainly doesn't mean it is correct. Use your eyes and knowledge, and/or, if possible, cross-check the item with someone who knows the area.
Some "experts" should have put away their tongs a few years earlier. It isn't believed that they intentionally made errors, they just happened more frequently.
Does the expertizer have a reference collection in the area of expertise? If not...
Does the expertizer consult with others if she or he has a question regarding an item? This isn't an issue for organizations, but may be for individuals.
Certificates from some experts or organizations carry little to no weight with many of the top auction houses and dealers, and those items are simply submitted to more "prominent" experts for new certs. Note, this isn't necessarily a case of trying to get a "better" opinions, but to get certs that simply carry more weight and thus are more marketable in hopes of garnering stronger bids. We would hold the old certs until the new ones came in, and, depending on the situation, often included both certs with the items if they were in agreement. Some certs were immediately tossed in the trash as the "expert" wasn't well-known or known at all. It should also be noted that it doesn't mean any of the other "experts" are/were wrong, it's just that a more "marketable" certificate was desired. Granting extensions for certificates was common if buyers/bidders requested them, but we did have to agree on where the material was being sent for review. We were fortunate to have a number of "experts" in the area (many on expertizing committees) who would review items with or without certificates and offer their opinions and who to send the material to if warranted.
Graded Certificates: If someone wants a stamp to be graded and assigned a numerical value, great.
Submit to the appropriate expert. Sounds obvious, but sending to the wrong place happens too frequently. Not sure where to send? Follow Dan's lead and ask!
Submitting "inexpensive" items for review: Some will say to never do this. Personally, I'll do it for certain items to help confirm something specific, such as as shade or the genuineness of a cancel. It's my collection, and I'll submit if I want to!
Some dealers will submit an item on your behalf. Ask! It will typically cost less. Make certain you understand which party's insurance is responsible, though.
Before submitting material to an individual/organization, make 100% sure you understand what the terms are. Confirm the best way to ship material, too.
@Harvey may be on to something with his thoughts...collecting for the pure enjoyment and not worrying about the "other stuff!"
FWIW, Bill Weiss did do certs for the APS, but I don't think that put him at odds with us when he issued his own. The same is true of Bill Crowe, who is a valuable member of the APS Expert Committee.
Please note, these are ultimately opinions of stamp experts. When we issue a certification, it might be reviewed by one expert if it's a straightforward stamp. Roughly 60 percent of our stamps are reviewed by more than one expert to pick up specific details, whether it's confirming the coloration, examining the perforations or the back, etc. If those two experts disagree, we send to a third for arbitration. The APS guarantees the opinions and we prefer to provide a confirmed opinion rather than send back with none.
My best advice to anyone is if you're making a big investment (this varies to the collector), get the expert opinion as quickly as possible and communicate to the seller you are doing so to reserve your right to return. The seller may have certain policies on agreeable experts or time to get the certificate completed, so please know the terms before you spend the money.
"@Harvey may be on to something with his thoughts...collecting for the pure enjoyment and not worrying about the "other stuff!" "
Does anyone know if any expert has stepped up to fill the void left by the death of Bill Weiss? Weiss provided his own certifications at very reasonable prices, far lower than the
current prices charged by the organizations who offer certifications.
Dan C.
re: Stamp Certification
Dan,
I copied this from Frank Kaplan's site. He sells as 'Mr. Fancy cancel'. He recommends Bill Crow.
"W T (Bill) Crowe is an independent philatelic expert and we've been using him for a while. He is faster and less expensive than the PF or PSE and has been an expert for a number of the agencies. With the passing of Bill Weiss, Bill Crowe fills a much needed spot. You can contact him at wtcrowe@aol.com. Tell him Frank sent you :-)"
re: Stamp Certification
Much obliged Vince. Would you like me to mention your name as well as Frank's?
Thanks again,
Dan
re: Stamp Certification
Clearly his loss.
re: Stamp Certification
As I see it all independent philatelic experts is a major problem! As with Mr. Weiss his certs. are no longer valid, because they cannot be challenged. I have every respect for Mr. Weiss, we communicated on a number of issues, but he is dead.
re: Stamp Certification
I really don't understand. If Weiss ran a certification company, even if he was a company of only himself, why would his certificates no longer be valid? People die and that doesn't imply that anything they did during their lifetime becomes null and void. Can someone explain this to me?
As an antique dealer I was asked my "opinion" about items on a regular basis. But it was only an opinion, not in writing and not binding. Mr. Weiss offered certificates and they should still be in effect, my opinion only!
re: Stamp Certification
Harvey, it's really simple, as the independent stamp expert who is dead you can not challenge his opinion..
re: Stamp Certification
I guess that 1898 is stating his opinion.
My opinion is that he's 100% wrong.
By his reasoning if the APS was to go out of business, all of their certificates would be no good
because they can't be challenged.
re: Stamp Certification
My point exactly Tony. You have a right to challenge a opinion by getting a second opinion from another person but that doesn't make the first opinion, or certificate, invalid. That means, as you say, total chaos if a certifier for a particular company dies or even retires!!
re: Stamp Certification
@Stampcollector, thank you for your reply, my point was a single stamp expert, not a company of more than one expert. A company of experts their certs. can be questioned. A dead independent expert certs. cannot be questioned!
re: Stamp Certification
Just as a sidenote, Bill Weiss was also used by the APS as a certifier in the early years, then as a stampdealer in later years he eventually used his expertise through his own company and offered his own certifications through that company. Politically, that put him into competition with the long time certification organizations who really didn't like it. His certs have so far stood the test of time and scrutiny.
Just saying!!
Dan C.
re: Stamp Certification
I am in total agreement with Dan Tony and Joseph
I cannot see any logical reason why an expert's Certification automatically comes into question when he dies, as is stated by 1898. Whether in the land of art or stamps etc. there are individuals who are expert in their particular field and their certifications are accepted.
John
re: Stamp Certification
Folks, I think that what 1898 is saying/meaning is that you cannot go back to Bill and question him on his certificate.
But why would you need to declare a previous certificate, just send the stamp and get a fresh one from a new certifier. There does not appear to be a central register of certificates so how will anyone know.
re: Stamp Certification
I have a cover signed on the back as genuine by Herman Hearst ... guess I'm in a heap of trouble!
re: Stamp Certification
I agree with 1898 and sheepshanks. 1898 stated
"the independent stamp expert who is dead you can not challenge his opinion."
re: Stamp Certification
I've been thinking a lot lately about what kind of crappy philatelist I really am. I am very trusting and sometimes buy items without quadruple checking whether they are what they are purported to be. Should I be suspicious of every stamp I buy that isn't certified or should I just enjoy the hobby? For example, I recently bought BC #1 on the written assurance it came from Maresch Auctions, Sale 12828, lot 85 without even bothering to check. This could have been a lie, but I've been dealing with the seller and his father since 1972. Should I have passed up the stamp and demanded more proof? I just bought a copy of Newfoundland airmail #C18, an often faked overprint, because the seller trusted the person he bought it from and I trust the seller!! Should I have passed up the stamp unless I had a certificate? I could probably cite many more cases where I went on trust instead of a certificate. This is a hobby that is supposed to be fun, and I enjoy it very much. If we spend all of our "hobby time" scared and paranoid then the fun would disappear and it would be more like a job. If I get a bad feeling about a stamp or seller I pass it up! I've probably made some mistakes, but I think I can live with that!
re: Stamp Certification
Some ramblings while watching a blowout in the college football championship game tonight...
Having had the privilege at an early age (college years) of working for a well-known auction house and having no more knowledge than the kid sending a dollar for a selection of approvals from H.E. Harris when I started, I was able to see a quite a bit of material first-hand and how the house (and others) went about expertizing.
This will seem pretty obvious: When purchasing a stamp with a certificate from a dealer/auction house/fellow collector, make certain that the stamp pictured on the certificate depicts the stamp that comes with it!!
If the individual who issued the certificate is dead or retired, it doesn't mean the certificate isn't "good," but, as previously stated, it cannot be "challenged" by sending it back said individual.
Just because the certificate was issued by a noted expert/organization certainly doesn't mean it is correct. Use your eyes and knowledge, and/or, if possible, cross-check the item with someone who knows the area.
Some "experts" should have put away their tongs a few years earlier. It isn't believed that they intentionally made errors, they just happened more frequently.
Does the expertizer have a reference collection in the area of expertise? If not...
Does the expertizer consult with others if she or he has a question regarding an item? This isn't an issue for organizations, but may be for individuals.
Certificates from some experts or organizations carry little to no weight with many of the top auction houses and dealers, and those items are simply submitted to more "prominent" experts for new certs. Note, this isn't necessarily a case of trying to get a "better" opinions, but to get certs that simply carry more weight and thus are more marketable in hopes of garnering stronger bids. We would hold the old certs until the new ones came in, and, depending on the situation, often included both certs with the items if they were in agreement. Some certs were immediately tossed in the trash as the "expert" wasn't well-known or known at all. It should also be noted that it doesn't mean any of the other "experts" are/were wrong, it's just that a more "marketable" certificate was desired. Granting extensions for certificates was common if buyers/bidders requested them, but we did have to agree on where the material was being sent for review. We were fortunate to have a number of "experts" in the area (many on expertizing committees) who would review items with or without certificates and offer their opinions and who to send the material to if warranted.
Graded Certificates: If someone wants a stamp to be graded and assigned a numerical value, great.
Submit to the appropriate expert. Sounds obvious, but sending to the wrong place happens too frequently. Not sure where to send? Follow Dan's lead and ask!
Submitting "inexpensive" items for review: Some will say to never do this. Personally, I'll do it for certain items to help confirm something specific, such as as shade or the genuineness of a cancel. It's my collection, and I'll submit if I want to!
Some dealers will submit an item on your behalf. Ask! It will typically cost less. Make certain you understand which party's insurance is responsible, though.
Before submitting material to an individual/organization, make 100% sure you understand what the terms are. Confirm the best way to ship material, too.
@Harvey may be on to something with his thoughts...collecting for the pure enjoyment and not worrying about the "other stuff!"
re: Stamp Certification
FWIW, Bill Weiss did do certs for the APS, but I don't think that put him at odds with us when he issued his own. The same is true of Bill Crowe, who is a valuable member of the APS Expert Committee.
Please note, these are ultimately opinions of stamp experts. When we issue a certification, it might be reviewed by one expert if it's a straightforward stamp. Roughly 60 percent of our stamps are reviewed by more than one expert to pick up specific details, whether it's confirming the coloration, examining the perforations or the back, etc. If those two experts disagree, we send to a third for arbitration. The APS guarantees the opinions and we prefer to provide a confirmed opinion rather than send back with none.
My best advice to anyone is if you're making a big investment (this varies to the collector), get the expert opinion as quickly as possible and communicate to the seller you are doing so to reserve your right to return. The seller may have certain policies on agreeable experts or time to get the certificate completed, so please know the terms before you spend the money.
re: Stamp Certification
"@Harvey may be on to something with his thoughts...collecting for the pure enjoyment and not worrying about the "other stuff!" "