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General Philatelic/Identify This? : Mystery Turkey ?

 

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rrraphy
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Retired Consultant APS#186030

05 Jan 2020
01:00:59am
Possibly fiscal, but I am a bit taken back by the cancellations as well.
Help.Image Not Found
Thanks.
rrr...

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"E. Rutherford: All science is either physics or stamp collecting."
ikeyPikey
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05 Jan 2020
07:15:49am
re: Mystery Turkey ?

Image Not FoundImage Not Found

About the only cool thing I think I know about Islamic stamps'n'coins is that the squiggle in the middle is the "calligraphic monogram" (signature/logo) of Sultan Somebody ... in the images above, that would be Sultan Somebody & Sultan Somebody Else.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tughra

As you can plainly see, to the less-schooled eye, they all look alike, even after you list them, one after the other:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_sultans_of_the_Ottoman_Empire

https://www.tugra.org/ ... more better

Cheers,

/s/ ikeyPikey (who will not embarrass himself further by asking if that is a Bulgarian overprint)

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"I collect stamps today precisely the way I collected stamps when I was ten years old."
musicman
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APS #213005

05 Jan 2020
08:30:32am
re: Mystery Turkey ?

https://www.tugra.org/?lang=en

As Ikey pointed out, this is a very interesting site...

and quite educational.

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lerivage

05 Jan 2020
12:20:05pm
re: Mystery Turkey ?

For me the overprint looks in Armenian alphabet

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rrraphy
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Retired Consultant APS#186030

05 Jan 2020
01:05:26pm
re: Mystery Turkey ?

I found a similar stamp (different color and denomination) on hipstamp described as follows: Turkey Ottoman Empire 1898 2pa Newspaper and Advertisement Revenue USED IN SYRIA.
Image Not Found




But I wonder if the cancellation is indeed Bulgarian or from another Ottoman Empire country?

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"E. Rutherford: All science is either physics or stamp collecting."
jmh67

05 Jan 2020
01:26:10pm
re: Mystery Turkey ?

If I may venture a guess: The stamps in the first post were cancelled by the newsprint. It was apparently not uncommon for newspaper (revenue) stamps to be stuck to the paper sheets before printing. And yes, the printed text is in Armenian and Arabic letters.

There seems to me little doubt that the stamp in the last post above has been cancelled in Damascus.

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ikeyPikey
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05 Jan 2020
05:03:50pm
re: Mystery Turkey ?

'
Is anyone else thinking that the purple hand stamp was applied by THOS COOK & SON ?

If 'yes', could the DAMA be something other than DAMASCUS ?

Cheers,

/s/ ikeyPikey

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"I collect stamps today precisely the way I collected stamps when I was ten years old."
Linus
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05 Jan 2020
07:50:34pm
re: Mystery Turkey ?

Yes, this is a cancel by Thomas Cook & Son Ltd., the London travel agent who operated cruises of the Nile River, Palestine, and Syria. I think it is Damascus, Syria revenue cancel, as they led tours to Damascus, and had branches throughout the world.

https://archive.org/stream/cookstouristsha13ltdgoog#page/n7/mode/2up


Linus


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ikeyPikey
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06 Jan 2020
12:08:09am
re: Mystery Turkey ?

"... Yes, this is a cancel by Thomas Cook & Son Ltd ..."



But what do those words even mean ?

Under what circumstances would a private office be applying a cancel ?

Did they apply (say) an Ottoman revenue stamp, and then cancel it, much the same as a bank might apply a documentary stamp and then cancel it ?

Or, were they applying a "received" (rubber) stamp, and just happened to hit the Ottoman stamp?

Cheers,

/s/ ikeyPikey (to whom a wise man once said: never ask how they got that way)

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"I collect stamps today precisely the way I collected stamps when I was ten years old."
jmh67

06 Jan 2020
05:04:15am
re: Mystery Turkey ?

If a revenue stamp was to be affixed to a document, it needed to be cancelled. Who else but the writer could do it? They could as well have written across it, but I suppose the office handstamp was quicker and easier.

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Linus
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06 Jan 2020
09:01:03am
re: Mystery Turkey ?

ikeyPikey -

Revenue stamps, when removed from their original documents, can loose their context, or their purpose of use. We can only speculate why a Thomas Cook & Son revenue/receit cancel from Damascus, Syria is on a Turkish revenue stamp.

TC & Son hauled passengers and freight on their own steamers and on contracted steamers, owned by other companies. They had offices around the world. Every passenger had a ticket. Every shipment of freight had a bill of lading. Every country charged taxes, which were collected through revenue stamps. Every TC & Son office had a rubber stamp to date when they received a shipment or to cancel the revenue/tax stamps when making a bill of lading.

"Or, were they applying a "received" (rubber) stamp, and just happened to hit the Ottoman stamp?"



Yes, that is probably what happened here, but only speculation.

Linus
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Linus
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06 Jan 2020
09:06:13am
re: Mystery Turkey ?

From eBay, here are examples of TC & Son rubber stamp cancellations from Madras and Rangoon. They had offices around the world.

I use these examples to show the pattern of their rubber stamp device layout. They seem to use "THOS. COOK & SON, LTD." over "insert a city name here."

Image Not Found

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Author/Postings
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rrraphy

Retired Consultant APS#186030
05 Jan 2020
01:00:59am

Possibly fiscal, but I am a bit taken back by the cancellations as well.
Help.Image Not Found
Thanks.
rrr...

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"E. Rutherford: All science is either physics or stamp collecting."
Members Picture
ikeyPikey

05 Jan 2020
07:15:49am

re: Mystery Turkey ?

Image Not FoundImage Not Found

About the only cool thing I think I know about Islamic stamps'n'coins is that the squiggle in the middle is the "calligraphic monogram" (signature/logo) of Sultan Somebody ... in the images above, that would be Sultan Somebody & Sultan Somebody Else.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tughra

As you can plainly see, to the less-schooled eye, they all look alike, even after you list them, one after the other:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_sultans_of_the_Ottoman_Empire

https://www.tugra.org/ ... more better

Cheers,

/s/ ikeyPikey (who will not embarrass himself further by asking if that is a Bulgarian overprint)

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"I collect stamps today precisely the way I collected stamps when I was ten years old."
Members Picture
musicman

APS #213005
05 Jan 2020
08:30:32am

re: Mystery Turkey ?

https://www.tugra.org/?lang=en

As Ikey pointed out, this is a very interesting site...

and quite educational.

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lerivage

05 Jan 2020
12:20:05pm

re: Mystery Turkey ?

For me the overprint looks in Armenian alphabet

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this post
Members Picture
rrraphy

Retired Consultant APS#186030
05 Jan 2020
01:05:26pm

re: Mystery Turkey ?

I found a similar stamp (different color and denomination) on hipstamp described as follows: Turkey Ottoman Empire 1898 2pa Newspaper and Advertisement Revenue USED IN SYRIA.
Image Not Found




But I wonder if the cancellation is indeed Bulgarian or from another Ottoman Empire country?

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this post

"E. Rutherford: All science is either physics or stamp collecting."
jmh67

05 Jan 2020
01:26:10pm

re: Mystery Turkey ?

If I may venture a guess: The stamps in the first post were cancelled by the newsprint. It was apparently not uncommon for newspaper (revenue) stamps to be stuck to the paper sheets before printing. And yes, the printed text is in Armenian and Arabic letters.

There seems to me little doubt that the stamp in the last post above has been cancelled in Damascus.

Like
Login to Like
this post
Members Picture
ikeyPikey

05 Jan 2020
05:03:50pm

re: Mystery Turkey ?

'
Is anyone else thinking that the purple hand stamp was applied by THOS COOK & SON ?

If 'yes', could the DAMA be something other than DAMASCUS ?

Cheers,

/s/ ikeyPikey

Like 
1 Member
likes this post.
Login to Like.

"I collect stamps today precisely the way I collected stamps when I was ten years old."
Members Picture
Linus

05 Jan 2020
07:50:34pm

re: Mystery Turkey ?

Yes, this is a cancel by Thomas Cook & Son Ltd., the London travel agent who operated cruises of the Nile River, Palestine, and Syria. I think it is Damascus, Syria revenue cancel, as they led tours to Damascus, and had branches throughout the world.

https://archive.org/stream/cookstouristsha13ltdgoog#page/n7/mode/2up


Linus


Image Not Found



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ikeyPikey

06 Jan 2020
12:08:09am

re: Mystery Turkey ?

"... Yes, this is a cancel by Thomas Cook & Son Ltd ..."



But what do those words even mean ?

Under what circumstances would a private office be applying a cancel ?

Did they apply (say) an Ottoman revenue stamp, and then cancel it, much the same as a bank might apply a documentary stamp and then cancel it ?

Or, were they applying a "received" (rubber) stamp, and just happened to hit the Ottoman stamp?

Cheers,

/s/ ikeyPikey (to whom a wise man once said: never ask how they got that way)

Like
Login to Like
this post

"I collect stamps today precisely the way I collected stamps when I was ten years old."
jmh67

06 Jan 2020
05:04:15am

re: Mystery Turkey ?

If a revenue stamp was to be affixed to a document, it needed to be cancelled. Who else but the writer could do it? They could as well have written across it, but I suppose the office handstamp was quicker and easier.

Like
Login to Like
this post
Members Picture
Linus

06 Jan 2020
09:01:03am

re: Mystery Turkey ?

ikeyPikey -

Revenue stamps, when removed from their original documents, can loose their context, or their purpose of use. We can only speculate why a Thomas Cook & Son revenue/receit cancel from Damascus, Syria is on a Turkish revenue stamp.

TC & Son hauled passengers and freight on their own steamers and on contracted steamers, owned by other companies. They had offices around the world. Every passenger had a ticket. Every shipment of freight had a bill of lading. Every country charged taxes, which were collected through revenue stamps. Every TC & Son office had a rubber stamp to date when they received a shipment or to cancel the revenue/tax stamps when making a bill of lading.

"Or, were they applying a "received" (rubber) stamp, and just happened to hit the Ottoman stamp?"



Yes, that is probably what happened here, but only speculation.

Linus
Like
Login to Like
this post
Members Picture
Linus

06 Jan 2020
09:06:13am

re: Mystery Turkey ?

From eBay, here are examples of TC & Son rubber stamp cancellations from Madras and Rangoon. They had offices around the world.

I use these examples to show the pattern of their rubber stamp device layout. They seem to use "THOS. COOK & SON, LTD." over "insert a city name here."

Image Not Found

Like
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this post
        

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